This is what occurred to me after viewing the RotJ DVD

All the drama that occurs on board the Death Star is irrelevant in RotJ

First, just a short preface.

Interesting how much perceptions change over time. I watched all three episodes in one go. The restoration is simply amazing and I think everyone involved did an outstanding job!

I haven't see RofJ since the original theatrical release. IV & V many many times yes, but not RotJ. I never liked VI - The dumbing down of Solo?s character is one reason. And then there are the Ewok?s. These two things alone where enough to kill the film for me early on. Especially since they are both of such vital importance to the outcome of the entire saga. But I digress...

On to the topic.

All that occurs on board the Death Star is irrelevant in RotJ - in regards to Luke & Vader, how it directly relates to the rebel assault on the Death Star and the cause of the rebellion in general:

Solo, Leia and the Ewok?s are the real heros in the story. It is they that disable the force field and it?s the rebel fleet that then destroys the Death Star. Luke just happens to escape. Vader and all on board (including Luke if he didn?t get out of there in time), would have been destroyed right along with it regardless of what transpired on board. Death Star blows up - The Emperor, Vader and Luke are killed - rebels win - big celebration - end of story.

Luke really does absolutely nothing in aiding the rebel cause by confronting Vader. The field generator is the key! In fact, Skywalker puts the entire rebel mission against the Death Star at risk by giving himself up to his father. If he strikes down his father, he would have needed to turn to the dark side in doing so and join the Emperor. Now, as the Emperor?s new agent of evil, he could have easily quickly gone back down to the surface and personally dispatched Solo and the small insurgent team attempting to disable the force field. But it really doesn?t matter. Here?s why.

We are led to believe that all of Luke's training is to facilitate his ultimate destiny which is to destroy Vader and the Emperor. But ultimately, Skywalker does not go to Vader with the intention of killing him. Even though in ESB, Kenobi tries to convince him that is what he should do. Why then doesn?t Kenobi and Yoda (especially Yoda) foresee that the very act of Luke killing his father would be that which would ultimately cause Luke to turn to the dark side and seal the fate of the rebellion? Many times we have heard through the saga; anger, hatred, revenge; these are the ways of the dark side.

Yoda and Kenobi?s ?master plan? lacks vision and is clearly flawed at it?s foundation. A lose lose situation for Luke and the rebellion.

The core of the story is very much based on ?destiny?. The Emperor and Vader will need to be destroyed one way or another if the rebels are to be victorious. Skywalker's presence on the Death Star does nothing to alter or effect what is happening during the struggle at field generator on the surface below. Nothing.

We all know what happens in the story. But...

What if Vader does not have his change of heart at the last second and allows Luke to be destroyed by the Emperor? The Emperor, Vader and Luke all die with the Death Star, rebels win - or - The battle at the field generator is lost and the rebellion is finally crushed by the Emperor and Darth Vader.

What if Luke succumbs to the dark side and kills Vader?
The Emperor, Vader and Luke all die with the Death Star, rebels win - or - The battle at the field generator is lost and the rebellion is finally crushed by the Emperor and his new apprentice, Luke.

What happens if Luke is successful in turning his father to the good side before they both confront the Emperor? Now, with Vader as an ally, they defeat the Emperor and escape before the Death Star blows up. So what? This still has no bearing what so ever on what transpires at the field generator. So we end up with a good Vader, no Emperor, no more Death Star - anyway - and Skywalker lives happily ever after with his father.

The problem is, none of t

 

No, no. Don't worry. I've had the same thought myself a few times and I agree with you that on the face of it, it all looks like the confrontation on the Death Star has no bearing on the outcome. However, if you follow EU, the Emperor was using the Force to improve his troops performance and coordinate them. If that is the continuity you choose, then his death did have a bearing. I personally believe that the Force itself was actively working against Palpatine and Vader and that the Rebels destroying the Death Star was a continuity plan of sorts.

 

Surely if it wasnt for Luke, Vader and Palpatine would have escaped the Death Star the moment the shield went down, making the rebel's victory a lot less significant.

 

Although Luke didn't realise this, I think you can argue that his presence on the Death Star meant the Emperor took his eye off the ball in terms of Endor.

Also, Luke's decision to hand himself in is very much his own, with no involvement from Yoda/Ben, so can be seen to be distinctly seperate from their plans to defeat the Empire. Luke realises he is jeopardising the plan early on - "I'm endangering the mission. I shouldn't have come" and so when he feels Vader closing in - "He's here now, on this moon" (or similar) he knows to stay with the party is a bad idea. Confronting Vader buys time for the others to mount the attack on the generator. He is making a classic 'queen sacrifice', which is why he warns Leia, "If I don't make it back, you're the only hope for the alliance" - as a contingency plan for the rebellion.

Therefore, whilst the throne room scenes aren't directly relevant to the attack, it does follow logically because Luke is diverting Vader, and ultimately Palps from Endor.

 

I don't think that Ben and Yoda ever wanted Luke to grow up at kill his father. I think they wanted him to fight his father and even if he did end up killing Vader that doesn't neccesarily mean he's going to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan kills Maul and he doesn't go over. So why would Luke?

Plus, if you read the novelization of ROTJ Luke really considers the fact that he may not make it out of the Death Star, which is a really cool idea to me. The last Jedi in the universe (nevermind, Leia and the EU) and he gives himself up so he can restore the balance and send evil packing. Of course nothing goes the way he thinks and it's actually Vader who finally has a change of heart and restores the balance.

 

I haven't see RofJ since the original theatrical release.

Seriously? As a huge SW fan (and by being here I'd guess you are also), I find that incredible.

Yeah, I agree with the others that Vader and the Emperor would've escaped the Death Star if Luke hadn't been there. Maybe Vader would have entered the space battle and shifted the advantage to the Empire.

 

I was actually watching the ROTJ disc with the commentary yesterday, and Lucas brings up a very good point that goes with this theory and makes it a personal favorite scene for me. He says that as the Rebels on Endor and the fleet make their final move to destroy the Death Star, Luke is on the downward spiral of his story arc. By giving Palpatine the opportunity to kill him, he's putting himself in a very dangerous position, and it's only through sheer dumb luck that he manages to get through it without turning into a Christmas tree. Palpatine would have killed Luke, Vader would have killed Palpatine, and Vader would have been killed when the Death Star went boom.

From an emotional standpoint, the scene is very critical. Looking at the big picture, though, it's ultimately not that important.

 

I think you are underestimating the importance of the scene. It is after all the climax of the saga. Luke keeps Vader and the Emperor from concentrating on the battle at hand. Vader would have been either leading the fleet or even possibly the ground defense, and his presence would have undoubtedly made a difference. Also if Luke had time to have a conversation with his dieing father, and then drag his body off of the death star, I'm positive the Emperor could have escaped too. Without killing the Emperor the victory at Endor doesn't really accomplish much. So Luke's final confrontation with his father isn't pointless like you were implying.

 

Plus it's the redemption of Anakin Skywalker, where this was all ultimately going.

 

if luke turned to the dark side he could have escaped the ds with the emperor or vader and the rebellion would be in worse trouble than before.

so it is the most important part of the story.

i think you need to watch rotj like 50 times to catch up.

 

I think the point here is, Luke DID destroy Darth Vader. Anakin Skywalker was the one that threw the emperor into the void. Also, who else would establish the "new jedi order" if Luke had died?