Amph "If You Seek His Monument, Look Around You" - The Man of Steel and Announced Sequel Thread

Kinda hard since for the most part, Lex has created Bizarro in both Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis continuities. The only reason Superman IV didn't work was because A) the script was bad and B) they didn't use Bizarro but an incredibly bad simulation.

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Throughout the years, he has been an imperfect duplicate of Superman. Though in his first appearence in Pre-Crisis continuity, he was not created by Lex Luthor, in nearly every subsequent appearence it has been Lex who created him. The only other time he wasn't involved was when Dabny Donovan created a couple in 1998 and in 2000, when the Joker had tricked Mr. Mxyzptlk into giving him nearl all of his power, which resulted in the creation of a varation of the Pre-Crisis Bizarro #1. However, when he will appear in the Richard Donner/Geoff Johns/Adam Kubert run on Action Comics, he will be much scarier than he has been in his history.

Lex creating an imperfect clone of Superman known as Bizarro, though he doesn't have to be named that onscreen, can work.

Then I suggest not even bothering to watch "The Man Of Steel", because you will be disappointed. Not every comic villian is campy. The Burton films were not ruined because of the costumed villians. Schumacher and Warner Brothers made Riddler, Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy and Bane into a joke.

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Batman's enemies are very much scarier when portrayed the right way. Bryan Singer, as noted, has done well with villians. Making Magneto, Toad, Sabertooth, Lady Deathstrike, Pyro and Mystique very serious and deadly. He did pretty good making Lex far more than he had been under Donner. I trust him to do well with either Bizarro or Brainiac.

As to villians being alien, I guess you don't like Star Wars since not all aliens are human or human looking.

 

Point taken with respect to Bryan Singer and his involvement in the X-Men franchise. I guess I am still a little haunted by the Schumacher era.

 

Sorry to come off harsh. You are right to be concerned, but you've got to remember that a lot has changed since Schumacher. He was under pressure from WB to market "Batman Forever" as more child friendly, since "Batman Returns" was too dark and thus the merchendise didn't sell as well. Batmania was not as high as it had been with the original film. "Batman & Robin" had even more pressure put on by WB, who were trying to please advertisers. Even going so far as to put in a reference to Visa, with the Bat credit card. That is why when WB agreed to let Chris Nolan have control, they let him do it the right way. Rather than let marketing dictate the story direction. Bryan Singer, Chris Lee and Gilbert Adler were able to do that with "Superman Returns". They kept Jon Peters on a leash, by avoiding the marketing for toys and concentrating on the story. The merchendising came second.

Bizarro, Brainiac, Darkseid, Mongol and whoever else comes down the pike will be treated with the same slant that Singer took with the X-Men. And with the same type of respect that Richard Donner had with Lex, Zod, Ursa and Non. Donner, who has talked with Singer during the making of the first "X-Men" film and spoken about the Phantom Zone villians, has said that if you camp up the villians, they're not going to be taken seriously. The threat of Zod, Ursa and Non had to be real. Which is why a lot of the camp was cut out from the Donner Cut and Donner isn't fond of those scenes in East Houston. Reason being that such foes would destroy more than one insignificant town. No "holding hands" or the "white finger beam of doom." Check out Magneto in the first two films under Singer. You can buy him as a serious threat to humanity. Same with William Stryker. There was a bit of humor, but it was subtle. Mystique flipping the bird, Magneto pulling the pins on all those grenades, Magneto locking Sabertooth in Senator Kelly's cell, Toad telling Sabertooth to quit screwing around. Stuff like that. Minor compared to what Richard Lester did or even Joel Schumacher.

 

Mongol might be a cool villain. I think I'm one of the few fans who actually liked the War World episode of Justice League. Superman never seemed more nobel, or more powerful than when he refused to fight.

 

I like every episode of JL, albeit War World isn't one of my favorites (Starcrossed FTW). As for Mongul, eh, I liked Darkseid and Brainiac much better than him. But those two are so damn awesome that it's hard to be on the same playing field as them.

 

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Mongul, for those who are curious, was created as a villian who as a tyrant until he was overthrown by his own people. He would take command of a satalite known as Warworld and used it for his own purposes. In Pre-Crisis history, he failed to do it properly and it nearly killed ihm. Post-Crisis, he did succeed. Mongul's most famous story is "For The Man Who Has Everything" where he attacks Superman on his birthday, by planting the Black Seed on him. Forcing Superman to live out his greatest wish, which is to be on Krypton whic has never been destroyed. Batman, Robin (Jason Todd) and Wonder Woman have to confront Mongul. Pre-Crisis, Mongul was far stronger than Superman. But he was depowered when he was re-introduced in the last part of "Exile". He was ultimately killed in "Underworld Unleashed" by the demon Neron, for refusing to join with him. His children showed up in the pages of Superman, but haven't been seen since "Our Worlds At War". At the start of "Infinite Crisis", Mongul appeared and attacked Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman while they were arguing amid the ruins of the JLA Watchtower. Though it's hard to tell if it was Mongul Sr. or Mongul Jr. During "Infinite Crisis", it was revealed that a number of people thought dead were brought back to life.

 

From IESB.net:

Justice League Before Superman 2?

Superman 2 on hold and Justice League moving forward!? Well at least those are the latest rumors around the web but is there any truth to the story?

Our buds over at Moviehole are reporting the following:

A couple of months back I?d heard some whispers ? whispers initiating as echoes from rather illustrious corridors mind you; that?s the only way I can put it without outing the pretty solid sources here ? about the next ?Superman? movie.

After the slightly (I say only slightly, because the film was still profitable) disappointing returns on ?Superman Returns?, Warner were in two minds about whether to continue the series or not ? right away, anyway. One idea that came up was to make their long-planned ?Justice League? movie, and possibly just incorporate ?Superman? into that...

Interestingly enough, a couple of weeks later, those some publications announce that the next ?Superman? sequel could be delayed- because director Bryan Singer has gone and got himself involved in another film; a thriller for United Artists...

Interesting hey? Well, the plot thickens, I heard from a pretty reliable source this weekend ? who, has some top contacts himself ? who essentially confirmed that the WB are thinking of putting the next ?Superman? movie into turnaround, and instead will just use the character in the new ?Justice League? movie. (Funnily enough, Batman would not be involved in the new film ? he?s too big to waste on a film like this, apparently).

Having now heard the same from about half-a-dozen reliable insiders, I checked in with a couple of sources near the Water Tower itself, who wouldn?t confirm nor deny the reports, but definitely haven?t dismissed that it?s a possibility. One of them would only say that there ?could be something in [that]?.

So that's the report, the problem with it is that sources close to the Singer camp are saying this is total bull****. The Man of Steel is expected to start shooting March of 2008 and that has not changed from Bryan's original plans.

Some of these rumors appear to have started after Variety assumed that there would be a delay on the Supes sequel because Bryan is doing another film this summer. That assumption was flawed because Bryan had always planned on doing another film before Superman 2, be it Logans Run or another.

So what is the final word? Don't believe everything you read, especially on the internet

 

OK.bluetights.net-The Planet had some news that said SR2 will not be postponed despite Singer doing this summer with Tom Cruise as Stauffenberg- the German officer who tried to kill Hitler with a bomb.The film will be shot this summer in time for Singer to edit and have United Artists release the film before he goes into preparing for the sequel.I believe the news item is either in the Superman Returns board or the SR Sequel board.Title of thread is SR will be out in 2009(?)Also a thread is linked to Hollywood Reporter about Cruise and Singer.

 

i do not like superman having a son. when the son has a son the story shifts to the second son. i think jason was a gimmick to make the story fresh. i dont want that. i want superman kicking butt and taking names. i dont want him being daddy.

 

You'll get that in the next film, but as it is, Superman has a son. Both in the films and an adopted one in the comics.

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Lor-Zod, aka Christopher Kent. Jason White adds a new depth. It gives Superman what he wanted. Family. Even though he doesn't yet know about Kara or possibly Kandor, what he wants is something that he already had. He just didn't realize it.

 

i dont like heroes having sons. i am their son. the city, people they protect are the sons. believe me, you cannot mother/father a kid correctly and save metropolis. we see the effects of this with luke and ben. or leia/han and jacen. i want my hero focused on the enemy not bringing home happy meals for dinner.

 

Why, Reed and Sue Richards have done well by their son Franklin. They've managed to have time for him, while saving the world and bouncing across the galaxy and through the Negative Zone. Scott Summers and Jean Grey Summers spent ten years with Nathan Summers in the future and as Cable he turned out right as rain. Dick Grayson and Tim Drake turned out okay. Red Tornado and Animal Man have done well with their families. Luke Cage and Jessica Jones Cage have a child, but Luke still works as an Avenger. Ben Skywalker's issues lie with wanting to be his own man, not because his parents weren't around. Jacen's problems lie with the fact that he fought with his brother Anakin and never got to make ammends with him, when he died. Much less save him. Jaina and Anakin turned out okay. So have Corran's kids as well as all the others.

So far Superman has done well with Christopher in "Last Son". He took out Bizarro, fought Subjekt-17, fought Amazo, formed a new JLA, dealt with his cousin's issues and fought an alien entity with Batman. And is currently dealing with the boy's parents and their fellow Phantom Zone inmates. In the film, he managed to save Metropolis and then his child, before getting rid of New Krypton.

 

Doesn't make the movie version anyless lame. Though on a side note I wonder what the odds are this Christopher Kent becoming a new Superboy.

 

All I can say is I cannot WAIT for this movie!

 

Whatever Singer and Co. decide to do with this sequel, I have faith that it will be stellar. Singer won't bastardize the franchise because of "pressure" to make it more action oriented. He'll do it proper...at least I have faith he will.

 

He tends to have a great appreciation of the fans wants and balances that quite well with what will make a great movie. Even if it changes the history somewhat, he seems to pull it through without the core fans being upset with him. He's a fan himself, and that's our biggest advantage.

 

It is an advantage to have someone who actually cares about the source material for the movies. Take Brett Ratner for example or Jon Peters...two individuals who had, and assumably have, little appreciation for the characters and their history. Ratner took over the X-Men franchise and, in my opinion, made it worse for wear. Peters and his giant spider would have totally eviscerated the Man of Steel and would have created a Schumacherian schlock-fest comparable only to Batman and Robin.

 

I agree. X-Men 3 took a significant turn. I wouldn't necessarily say it was for the worst, but it certainly wasn't for the better. It would have been better if Singer still had the reigns. And to think, he wasn't much of an X-Men fan to begin with (but became one), and look what he did with that.

He IS a Superman fan.

 

Well- the movie is not going to be postponed.Singer will finish the film he is doing with Tom Cruise and move into pre-production.Here is something that I hope is not true.WB may consider doing a Supergirl film with Paris Hilton in the title role.Also one or two sites dealing with Superman there is a report Kara might appear in the film but not in costume giving a possible lead in to a putative Supergirl movie.I hope the report of Hilton is a joke!Comments!Check Dccomics board under the board DC movies!

 

This has to be an April Fools joke. It just has to be.

 

He won't be Superboy until DC and the estates of Seigel & Shuster settle the rights issue over the character, the concept and name.

Unless I missed something, WB is considering Tricia Helfner. Ian Churchill does use Paris as the model for his rendition of the character.

Oh and I forgot that Catwoman Selina Kyle is balancing between her work as Catwoman and raising her daughter Helena.

 

Oh...really? I guess my ignorance is plain...

 

Nah, not ignorant. You just heard a rumor that's a little less reliable. Besides, I think that whoever gets the role will have to act and not have a reputation that Paris does.

 

uh, ds, i never said ben's problems were because luke and mara werent there. i dont think its about him being his own man. that is secondary. his problems are because luke and mara made him feel like they were never interested in him. eggshells do not equal good parenting. i dont know how you spend your days, but for the last 18 years i have hung out with teenagers. while i dont keep up with all the comics like i used to (buying diapers all those years ago kinda made the choice for me) if i looked at those heroes that did it right i would bet they did the one thing all parents should. they made their kids feel like what they felt/said/believed/did mattered to the parents. as much as the solos were away from their kids, i always felt after reading whatever book that those kids knew how the parents felt. i am not talking about "i love you son" i am talking about "i like you son."

folks, that is the grand secret of the universe. now if superman can make little jason or christopher feel like he matters to dad, then i am all for him. but, in real life how many parents do that? one of the reasons i love comics is the fantasy mixed with realism. its hard enough for me to make my kids know i am interested in them. they are 16,13,10. and i dont save the world daily.

 

In the case of Christopher/Lor-Zod, he quite likes Clark as he's way better than his own parents. Clark did spend time talking to Chris while he was being observed by Commander Steel and the government. And he did break the law in taking him from which showed a strong like from his point of view. In two issues, they've gotten along fairly well. They didn't get much time to interact as Zod, Ursa and Non came aknockin' with Jax-Ur and the rest of the Phantom Zoners and Clark went into the Phantom Zone.

In the case of Jason, they've only had a scant amount of time together. But Jason likes Clark and Superman, perhaps even figuring out that they're one in the same. That's a relationship that will evolve over the course of the next couple of films.