Thoery on Qui-gon and R2-D2...

Hmmm...this theory seems to work. I think there have been some cases where the Jedi have manipulated droids, just as Qui-gon could've done with artoo. And the thing with threepio telling him he's crazy would work, too. And it seems to me that there has been lots of emphasis on how important artoo was...so does that mean that Obi-wan could really be threepio?

 

I think the independence of R2 is more the result of not being memory wiped for a very, very long time - probably not since he repaired those shields on the royal transport.

Padme certainly seemed to like the droid and since she/Amidala made a big production out of honoring the droid it is doubtful she would even consider wiping him in the future as long as he was in her possession and there weren't any serious problems. Then presumably R2 stays with Amidala when Leia is hidden on Aldaraan. Leia has vague recollections of her mother (per RoTJ). I always assumed that Obi-Wan took Luke to the Lars on Tatooine and left Leia and Padme with the droids with his friends on Aldaraan. Ownership probably transferred to the Aldaraan Royal family with the death or disappearance of Padme and according to the d20 rpg Core Rulebook the captain of the transport in the beginning of Ep. IV liked the fact that R2 could lie - it made him an excellent card/game player that he could bet on. Go without a memory wipe for 30 years or so and I'm sure a droid like R2 would develop a personality.

It's an interesting theory, but it looks to me like Qui-Gonn did not expect to die at the hands of Darth Maul. The surprise and emotion in his face is clear when he falls. He wasn't prepared to transubstantiate to spirit form, I don't think he would have been prepared to transfer himself to the unlikely vessel of a droid several thousand kilometers above in the middle of a fight with the Trade Federation.

If Obi-Wan knew that the droids were with Leia and her mother when they hid them on Aldaraan, he would know the appearance of a willful blue and white astromech featuring a distinct personality with Luke hot on his heels probably meant something had gone wrong, he would have recognized R2-D2 at this point - hence the 'little friend' comment.

C3PO on the other hand, was always treated more like an appliance. I can't recall anyone friendly to R2 ever just switching him off because he was annoying. R2 always seemed to know what was going on, being the only character to be around for all the major events taking place over around 40 years or so from Ep 1 to VI and beyond. C3PO didn't seem to remember much of anything. R2 seemed to know where he was going on Tatooine - C3PO, despite having been built there, was clueless. That alone implies a memory wipe. C3PO was also a blabbermouth. It has been seen that C3PO could be pressured or otherwise tricked into revealing important information - and he could speak any language, not just binary. On the chance that he might let it slip that Vader's daughter was Leia or act impartially toward her and tip someone off, his memory would probably have been wiped at least once.

 

Well C-3PO is a bit of a wimp. And I agree with your theory of not wiping a droids memory the droid can begin to develop a personalty.

Didn't any of you read the Essential Guide to Characters? In it it says that due to his lack of memory wipes C-3PO began to feel things that non-droids do.

 

"And I agree with your theory of not wiping a droids memory the droid can begin to develop a personalty."

Its not a theory, its a fact.

"In it it says that due to his lack of memory wipes C-3PO began to feel things that non-droids do."

Also, read Hero's Trial.

 

When I started this I should have been more specific, I meant that Qui-gon's essence or spirit had been transferred, and also that it had only begun on the Naboo ship, but that it had finished upon his death. He may have been surprised at his own death, but a Jedi Master would have to make a desision upon his death of where he was to go: to join the living Force, or stay behind somehow to protect those he cares for.

 

Taking your theory and running with it for a minute, even if I still think that R2's 'personality' is the result of his experiences and lack of memory wipes, I can't see Qui-Gon sitting back and letting Luke handle things the way he has since RoTJ without speaking up about the Force and the original Jedi order. If it were true, then it might be understandable for him to hide his identity until Palpatine was taken out, but why continue the deception for another 30 years into the NJO era without speaking up? Also, considering Qui-Gon's extreme devotion to Anakin Skywalker and convictions concerning him, I find it rather hard to believe he wouldn't do or say something during his long descent into becoming a Sith Lord.

Anyway, I still think that the thing that makes R2 special is that he is just a droid - but a unique droid at that. Remember that SW is based on the Hero's Journey - the classic myth retold throughout the ages - and the droids resemble the helpers sent to aid the hero on that journey. Think along the lines of the gifts the gods gave to Perseus during his trials as he became a hero in myth - Hera's owl for example from Clash of the Titans (speaking in clicks and whistles (at least in the film), strong-willed and always getting into trouble - sound like anyone?). The helpers are meant to be strong characters that support the hero, but not heroes themselves in the traditional sense. Making R2 Qui-Gon kind of changes his place in the 'myth' to one that was occupied by characters like Yoda and Obi-Wan or worse, moving him closer to central hero figure status himself, which distorts the classic story Lucas was trying to retell in the form of a space opera.

It's fun to speculate and R2 can be anything you want in your SW, it may have been Lucas' creation but inside every fan is his own SW universe. However, I myself prefer to think of R2 as a very special droid within the SW galaxy and not a machine possessed by a dead and forgotten (sad, but true) Jedi Master.

 

(ahhh, it's good to be back...)

I like this theory, but I have to agree on the personality developing from not being memory-wiped thing. Remember Whistler?

Ara
(Sniffles attack me once again. I have both burns and frostbites in my hand. My life sucks)

 

This is about as odd as the Naboo = Dagobah or Naboo = Death Star reactor core theories.

 

This reminds me of some of the crackpot theories out there that surround another epic trilogy, the Lord of the Rings. There is a reeeeeally out there theory that Tom Bombadil (If you don't know who he is, read the books) is really in fact the Witchking of Angmar (the head of the ringwraiths). Regardless of the factuality of these theories, they are immense fun to speculate about. Besides, after Qui-Gon's death, you never see them in the same place...oh...whoops...that whole 'being dead' thing kinda' makes that a fact of the matter. I guess we may never know, as there is no evidence withing the Star Wars universe that either confirms or denies this theory. As to the memory wipe/personality link, that may be true, but it does not preclude the Qui-Gon from transferring his spirit to Artoo.

 

Ok...

#1. What reason would Qui-Gon have to transfer his spirit into another being? It would have to have something to do with being able to pass on his knowledge of the force, his insight, or something like that.

#2. Since the only real reason Qui-Gon has to transfer his spirit is to help educate others, WHY WOULD HE PUT HIS SPIRIT INTO A DROID THAT CAN'T COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE ON ITS OWN?

Think about it, all the effort that poor old Qui-gon put into keeping himself around after his death, and he can't give anyone the vast knowledge he has without a translator? Seems like he chose the wrong vessel for his spirit if you ask me.

 

As far as communication goes, i find it strange that no has picked this up yet. There is something very very suspicious regarding Artoo and Luke. Mainly the fact that on plenty of occasions when Luke is outside his x-wing, they can TALK.

Luke somehow uses the Force to interpret Artoo. Yet how is this possible ? Luke can't read droids minds, so he can't pick up the meaning that way, and whilst Luke (and others) has always been able to work out a general gist of Artoo's feelings on issues by the inflection in his 'voice', this cannot account for how Luke can find out complicated things from Artoo without a translator.

There you have it, Luke can't reach out to Artoo with the Force and read what he's thinking (saying) because he's a droid, and Artoo can't make an impression or 'vibe' of what he means in the Force because he's a droid. So what's going on ?

What i propose is an extension of this theory. As it has been pointed out, droids receive frequent memory wipes. Artoo has not been noticed yet when he's just a maintenance droid on the ship. It has been noticed that Qui-gon was staring intently into the monitor displaying the damaged section, almost as if he was concentrating. I would also like to add that Artoo, when he's the last droid left, looks around. Why does he do this ? As a regularly wiped droid performing a task, he can't be looking fearfully around as he cannot experience fear. He cna't be doing ANYTHING except the task at hand. He was distracted when none of the others were. I propose that he was distracted because Qui-gon was suddenly protecting him and 'encouraging' him to work. Now this has event has effects on Artoo's personality. For a brief time, he has expanded past the standard boundaries of his personality. This has left a permanent effect on him. Whether or not Qui-gon actually lives on within him, he now has an ability to move past his programming, like in the lying, which is a fundamental no-no in his programming. It is also possible that he has received memory wipes in the past, but he has been able to retain his memories through his ability. This would also explain why when Irek doesn't have the thingy in Artoo's head (which overrides Artoo himself), that Artoo is able to resist the pure force of Irek's will, though with some difficulty, when all other droids cannot.

I haven't completely worked out the talking thing, but for now, i propose that Artoo, who has a small understanding of Luke's ability through his experiences with Qui-gon, is actually cadting his 'voice' in a manner he knows that Luke can pull from the Force.

Thin, but it's all i've got. And also about the Jar-Jar thing in the hold, i think Jar Jar bumped Artoo as yet another demonstration to the audience that Binks is a klutz.

edit : Wyl_Transserwyyner - www.lordotrings.com puts up a good case for Tom Bombadil's true identity as Aule, one of the Gods (or Valar as Tolkien likes to call them)

 

This may sound silly, but R2-D2 and Luke communicate through a screen on the X-Wing or thorugh R2's projector, don't they and not through the Force. Remember that he could show a real-life message of Leia in ANH. Other instances, like Corran and Whistler and In Solo Command, Lara uses some special glasses or something like that to communicate woth her R2

 

Lara's droid has a translation program but can't vocalise english, so it displays it on the glasses. I didn't know that Artoo had a translator display on him.

 

I think he may just guess the meaning of what R2 is saying by his tone. Knowing the Droid for a long time you would think he would get to know what the sounds where for..
For example.

tweet beep ="oh crap!"

Beep beep ="this isn't a good idea!"

Beeeeeep ="hey are you ok?"

Beeep tweet beep= "Do you think I should diversify my portfolio?"

You know things they regularly say to each other. seriously. You can sort of tell by the mood and the tone the general meaning.

 

I meant really complex stuff like

Luke : well i'm meeting with a man today

Artoo : beep tweep beep

Luke : Ah, you think he might be some crazed wild-eyed scientist with dreams of discovering the secrets of the Dark Side so that he may resurrect the Empire with a minor change at the very top office in order to crush the Republic into very small pieces which he can feed to his pet rancor-fish called Oliver as Oliver hasn't eaten in a month and may soon turn suicidal if his master is unable to succeed in his goal of mass-destruction of maths teachers and cockroaches.
<thinks for a sec>
No i don't think so Artoo.

Okay, they talk about less complicated things, but sometimes they do manage to talk about a bit more than the weather, in a very suspicious manner.

 

I meant really complex stuff like

Luke : well i'm meeting with a man today

Artoo : beep tweep beep

Luke : Ah, you think he might be some crazed wild-eyed scientist with dreams of discovering the secrets of the Dark Side so that he may resurrect the Empire with a minor change at the very top office in order to crush the Republic into very small pieces which he can feed to his pet rancor-fish called Oliver as Oliver hasn't eaten in a month and may soon turn suicidal if his master is unable to succeed in his goal of mass-destruction of maths teachers and cockroaches.
<thinks for a sec>
No i don't think so Artoo.

Okay, they talk about less complicated things, but sometimes they do manage to talk about a bit more than the weather, in a very suspicious manner.

 

I meant really complex stuff like

Luke : well i'm meeting with a man today

Artoo : beep tweep beep

Luke : Ah, you think he might be some crazed wild-eyed scientist with dreams of discovering the secrets of the Dark Side so that he may resurrect the Empire with a minor change at the very top office in order to crush the Republic into very small pieces which he can feed to his pet rancor-fish called Oliver as Oliver hasn't eaten in a month and may soon turn suicidal if his master is unable to succeed in his goal of mass-destruction of maths teachers and cockroaches.
<thinks for a sec>
No i don't think so Artoo.

Okay, they talk about less complicated things, but sometimes they do manage to talk about a bit more than the weather, in a very suspicious manner.

Edit : Dang, the computer told me that the message didn't get through. I'm going to have words with it.

 

WOW [face_shocked] you must have really wanted to make your point.

 

i think it's a perfectly plausible theory, that makes a lot of sense and would explain a lot... however, there's not a chance in hell that lucas is going to incorporate it into the movies...

 

I've never quite worked out exactly how Anakin/R2 was able to get through the defence shields (while they were still up) when none of the actual pilots were able to.

 

I am sorry, but I find your theory to be quite absurd.