Amph Thor: Love and Thunder

Necessary? Can't?

 

Kate Be. . .

Ah, screw it.

 

Kate Berlant?

 

Fin Fang Foom is an former Iron-Man villain

 

I did find that interesting with Captain America dismissing Asgardians as gods. I don't know if it was just his character or the studio trying to back away slowly from the concept. Most of the films with mythological gods are set in ancient times (I'm thinking Clash of the Titans) or adapted from teen novels (Percy Jackson). There's actually a lot of teen books at the moment with gods-as-gods and I've never heard anyone having a problem with it. Maybe because it's considered 'for kids' they feel they can take the gods-as-gods route and adults don't take it seriously, or kids are just more accepting. Or maybe Stargate was a cultural phenomenon (aliens posing as gods) that the studio wanted to go that route because the audience would be familiar with it. (I've seen so much Stargate that I keep having to remind myself that 'Asgard' is the name of the place in Marvel/mythology, not the race. Argh. 'Asgardian' sounds so funny to me.)

But if Thor is an alien ... I'm assuming he and Jane still are ... um, compatible, right?

Although, personally, I do like the magic-as-science aspect of the Thor films.

Spoiler: Something I noticed about Loki.

I just saw the movie again tonight. And when I first saw the movie last week I was delightfully surprised by the ending, with Loki still alive. And this time round I noticed that the Asgardian soldier who reports back to Odin to say that they found a body has to be Loki, right? When he's still on the other planet, there's a green shimmer as the camera focuses on him, meaning that Loki was creating him as an illusion, right?

ETA: I so need one of those plushie mew-mew Mjolnir in my life.

 

Don't forget the Absorbing Man and the Wrecker.

... Although you might want to.

 

I thought Absorbing Man was primarily a Hulk villain?

 

Is he? He debuted in an issue of JiM back in the 1960s, and most of the stories I've seen him in featured Thor. I think he might've even gotten his powers from Loki, although it's been awhile since I read that issue.

 

The situation is pretty clear. Most stories that feature gods being treated as such are clearly fantastical settings. They didn't even bother to create an air of hisotricity around the setting in Clash of the Titans, or offer some take that even remotely resembled the story of Perseus. It was just a clearly fantastical, made-up story that there was no suggestion anyone ever would have believed happened at any point in human history. This sort of presentation is relatively non-fictional because it ultimately reaffirms the notion that the Greek pantheon was fictional and ridiculous.

By contrast, the Avengers is meant to be set in the "real world" and present day. Having gods exist in this setting would tend to imply that those gods do exist, or at least can be taken seriously as existing. Harry Potter and Percy Jackson attract similar antipathy for having stories that are, on the one hand, set in the "real world" and on the posit that magic exist. If it's unavoidable in the story, studios take the plunge. But if there's an easy out like they have with Thor, it's completely unsurprising that they take it.

The truth is that there is no anything about Thor that is even remotely mainstream or iconic, save the take on Loki that Marvel feels increasingly compelled to cram into every single property in existence.

 

Yes; it's very pointless to say "It's science" just for the sake of it. It's a fantasy film, why not call it magic when you're just going to point to the old Clarke quote anyway?

 

This way they can stick superheroes in front of a stained glass window for 30 seconds of the film and having the 700 Club promoting it for the positive message. Your way will draw protests from Focus on the Family for promoting witchcraft. Stupid, but there it is. If you are trying to maximize profits, which would you choose?

 

Wocky I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you're talking about but just enjoy listening to yourself ramble. "The truth is that there is no anything about Thor that is even remotely mainstream or iconic" < ---- You know that's not true, and if you really genuinely believe that then you should educate yourself some more before jumping into a thread and starting a misinformed rant.

One thing to maybe keep in mind - or two things. First, ask yourself what the difference is between the comics Thor/Loki and the film versions. Why are we seeing them as more of equals to the other Avengers and not as gods? What's missing? What do gods do that humans can't? What did I say was necessary to eventually include in the films just a few posts prior? What's one of the trademark features of Norse myths that has only just been briefly introduced in Thor 2? Death + the afterlife. Once that gets included in the films, I'm pretty positive it's going to become clear as to what type of gods Thor/Loki are, and they're going to be differentiated from everyone else.

As far as the science vs. magic stuff, I think the above is also going to answer that as well. We've seen these characters in only 3 movies when there's hundreds of comics covering that world. Do you really think they're going to throw all the unexplainable voodoo crap in the audience's face right away when they know that there are people like Wocky making up the majority of their audience? Science vs. magic hasn't been answered yet in the film world and neither has any definition of what kind of gods they are. The only facts there are about that are what's in the comics, which the films also don't contradict yet so I'd be keeping an open mind to that things aren't *that* different from that world.

btw. thor is srs bz.

 

I. Yeah, the first remark was admittedly sarcastic. It is true, though, that most of these Marvel superheroes don't have much in the way of recognizable villains. Outside of Red Skull, there's probably not a single villain from among the entire Avengers roster that is as recognizable as the Joker, Magneto, or Lex Luthor. Most people that aren't already comic book enthusiasts have no idea who Hulk is supposed to fight (is he even supposed to fight anyone? Isn't his whole thing more of an internal struggle? Or???)

II. I'm not trying to claim anything about what is "actually" the case, or what will be the ultimate situation with these film versions of the characters. I'm talking about an explanation for why the movies have depicted the residents of Asgard the way they have so far. Can they change it? Absolutely. But they haven't yet, is all I'm saying.

 

Yeah, I don't really think they needed to worry about the "gods" angle. I mean, I saw The Dark World on opening weekend with four friends that are all Christians. I think most people can differentiate between fantasy in the movies and reality. But then you never know what's going to set people off, so I guess I can understand them being leery of it. I mean, people have gone nuts over less ridiculous things.

I love Cap's line in The Avengers though. At the time, I didn't take it as the MCU trying to retcon the Asgardians into something other than gods. I just took it as a great, witty line that was a character moment for Cap. Because that's totally what he would say.

 

Sometimes

 

Absorbing Man & the Wrecker was created by Loke to fight Tor but nowadays they are both more all-around villains

Science and magic is the same thing in Asgård



Edit: also I think that making the Asgardians Sufficiently Advanced Alien (so advanced that to them what we call magic and science is one-and-the-same) is partly so we don't have to begin to discuss about the existence of "modern" gods and partly a cal back to Kirby who was a fan of the "Any sufficiently advanced alien is indistinguishable from God" idea

 

Loki's daughter? That could be awesome! Just add another great family dynamic in there.

 

Loki has hundreds of children. That's another great family dynamic they could throw in to the plot. Hundreds.

 

I guess Loki doesn't obviously need Viagra...

 

Oh, goodness. It would be the mythological version of the new Vince Vaughn film, Delivery Man.

I totally wouldn't mind Loki being in all the upcoming movies. Even non-Marvel ones. (Well, a girl can dream). I do love me a good villain and the dynamic he's got going with Thor & Co is fascinating. Article about his character here in USA Today.

 

Some content: this is Hel and Loke, bad translation below the pic

Loke: why should I help you?
Hel: It is your duty. You are after my father
Loke: Father?! Nonsense!! Noting but rumours! And... you can not prow anything!

 

Well, in fairness, he mothered a few of them.