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Amph Thor: Love and Thunder

Discussion in 'Community' started by Jedi_Master_Conor, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. TiniTinyTony

    TiniTinyTony JCC Super Bowl Pick 'Em Winner star 7 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2003
    I enjoyed the movie overall. It's definitely a comedy first and foremost when compared to other movies in the MCU which isn't a bad thing. There are some things I don't understand when gods fight and how they hurt or don't hurt each other, but other than that, I had no major issues with it. My wife, who kind of gets tired to all the superhero movies I take her to, very much enjoyed this one so that made me happy. So if you have a wife like mine, this one she should enjoy so, good luck!
     
  2. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    When a franchise runs out of narrative ideas, it often begins to lean heavily on self-satire as a low-hanging fruit substitute. Thor 3 is more or less a textbook case. When you have nothing interesting left to say, roast what you've already done.
     
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  3. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 23, 2003
    I could swear a few months ago you were decrying the MCU for all being the same and never doing anything differently, now when they have come out with a film with a very different tone, you're still finding something to moan about...
     
  4. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Its tone is indistinguishable from the tone of the first two Guardians of the Galaxy movies, though in terms of coherent storytelling it's the worst of the three. It's not as organically funny as the GotG movies, relying as heavily as it does on cheap callback jokes to other MCU movies. It's the laziest kind of humor imaginable.
     
  5. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I dunno, Christoper Lee comes to mind.
     
  6. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 14, 2004
    christopher lee was in b-movies his whole life.
     
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  7. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

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    May 5, 2016
    Anthony Hopkins was in Transformers: The Last Knight......

    I don't consider the Thor franchise slumming relatively speaking.
     
  8. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003

    Did you not do the same in your review of Wonder Woman? A film that had a "very different" tone from the DC films that you bemoaned?

    Ken is at least consistent across the board, when it comes to the comic franchises. He trashes them all.
     
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  9. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 27, 2013
    Which is beneficial to all. Ken gets to delight in their shortcomings, and the studios get his money. There are no losers here.
     
  10. Kiki-Gonn

    Kiki-Gonn Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 26, 2001
    Even as a lifelong geek I’ve gotten to the point where I can’t muster the energy to keep up with all the factory super hero movies (sadly the road SW is going down as well) anymore.
    I’m always behind, don’t expect terribly much, etc.

    So, this was a rare in theater experience for me and a super welcome surprise. I loved this movie. Obviously GOTG broke this ground first but I think this movie does it better. The reviews and podcasts all focus on the humor but it was the weirdness that made this special. Hulk vs. Fenris, drunken merc Valkyrie, so many of the supporting characters, the Jodorowsky-Fifth
    Element dayglow look and feel to Sakaar (yes I know its original comics appearance- other story), etc.
    So much fun.
    So many of these movies come off as very calculated, even when they are good. Sure this one was as well but it still felt much more spontaneous. It was like the kids at drama club stayed up all night after the teacher went home and made their own play.

    Had an absolute blast and I’m putting this in my top tier of super hero movies, quibbles and imperfections on this one just don’t bother me.
     
  11. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    I really like Thor: Ragnarok.

    The Flash Gordon-esque tonal shift was the correct move for the Thor franchise as it fits perfectly in the Marvel cosmic side of the MCU setup by Guardians of the Galaxy and allows Thor to expand on his more humorous side that was touched upon Whedon's Avengers films. Moreover, the Flash Gordon influence was the teaspoon of sugar makes the medicine of the heaviness and darker aspects of the story go down. Furthermore, comedic Thor allowed the character to stand out and not be overshadowed by other characters, which occurred in the previous two Thor flicks, which is saying something with a film that features Jeff Goldblum's Grandmaster, Cate Blanchett's Hela, Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie, Tom Hiddleston's Loki, Benedict Cumberbatch's Dr. Strange and Mark Ruffalo's Hulk. Chris Hemworth's Thor could have been easily pushed out of the spotlight if the film took him to be the only serious character in the film.

    Ragnarok could have also easily been too dour and bogged down in melodrama with the backstory of Hela and tonal elements for the source materials, Planet Hulk and Ragnarok and or try to make another earth bound Thor film, which may have resulted in another Thor: The Dark World. Instead, Taika Waititi takes the audience on a Willy Wonka type ride of pure imagination. It was so refreshing to have Thor in other realms and more importantly, not earth or in a forced romantic relationship. And with the Flash Gordon type of film, the MCU expands both in space and in memorable characters.

    In short, if you liked the Guardians of the Galaxy, you'll most likely like Thor: Ragnarok as it fits in perfectly in tone, story telling and characterization.

    Marvel has done an excellent job in taking their B and C list characters and making them A list box office gold.
     
  12. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    What a bizarre rebuke. I've never had an issue with the tone of the DC films, my problems with the DC films have always been the horrible writing, poor editing and almost catastrophic miscasting. It's not like Wonder Woman totally dispelled these (but again, I generally liked WW anyway).

    I feel Ken has only shown that he's consistent in his anti-Marvel stance regardless of what they do. I just find it amusing.
     
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  13. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Thank you!
     
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  14. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

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    May 4, 2003
    I honestly don't know what trolling is, no.

    Because I gave my honest thoughts based on things that people confirmed are legitimate elements of the film, and which even many who liked it weren't fond of. I was transparent about where I was coming from and engaged in real give and take with people who thought differently. Rather than join in though, you've decided that merely disagreeing with you in my assessment of the MCU constitutes "trolling."
     
  15. What Girl

    What Girl Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 12, 2016
    I watched this last night and I don't understand all the glowing reviews. The entire movie felt like a parody of a Thor film rather than actually being one. Shallow, dumb, and despite the constant jokes, not that amusing to me. I would have preferred a darker and more serious version of Ragnarok. I liked the first two movies and own both, but this one doesn't have rewatch value imo. Forgettable film.
     
  16. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    I just don't get the whole thing about him having a personality transplant. I think he's very in character for much of the film. He does throw out a few quips here and there that sound kind of like Tony but then he's hung out on earth a lot; it doesn't seem feasible that he'd be exactly the same character that we met in the first Thor. But I find that he does still fall into that kind of endearing density that makes the character so appealing to me; he's just not particularly bright, which makes teaming him up with the Hulk such a pleasure, since it's a couple of brute force characters beating heads against each other. The scene of them arguing in their shared room is a perfect example. Nobody's making any points on brain power in that scene; put Tony in that scene and he behaves completely differently. That's demonstrably Thor arguing with the Hulk in that scene; put Steve or Nat or Vision or anybody else in that room and the entire conversation is different. He's just . . . well, I just think he's still pretty much the Thor I've always loved. Like the scene with Strange where he makes the crack about e-mail and then Strange just instantly fires back at him and Thor obliviously reveals that he didn't even know what he was talking about. That's not Thor being a Stark-esque wise-cracker; that's Hemsworth's Thor pompously trying to do a wisecrack and not even realizing that he's screwed it up. He has moments here and there where he drops a weird wisecrack or two that aren't maybe dead on with his previous character, but it's far from egregious and he's mostly still Thor. Near as I could tell anyway. I think the thing a lot of people are missing here is the angst of the Thor-Loki-Odin relationship which is where a lot of the Shakespearean dramatics came from before. This movie does sideline that aside from a couple of scenes and I do kind of miss it, but I thought it got the few scenes that had it exactly right (the final Thor-Loki-Odin scene was absolutely right in my opinion; and the "If you were here/I am here" bit at the end was genuinely moving). Yes, there's a lot different here and the movie doesn't follow the plot template of the previous Thor movies, but I think people are overstating it in terms of how much it breaks with the previous films.

    That said, I actually like The Dark World a lot. So, what do I know?
     
  17. Darth_Invidious

    Darth_Invidious Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 21, 1999
    There's this thing called Google. It's a quite wonderful construct made up of thousands little AIs that tell you whatever you want to know...though that's quite scary, when you think about it.
     
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  18. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    Even beyond that, it tracks entirely from movie to movie... in the first movie, he's all about being a "not a care in the world" hot-headed guy with a sense of humor, who learns humility, then in The Avengers he's got the same sense of humor ("he's adopted") whilst trying to protect Earth but still not wanting Earth involved in Asgardian business and learns about teamwork. Then once he learns that, he learns about self-sacrifice when his father goes insane after his mother is killed and his father wants all of Asgard to die in order to beat Malekith and trusts his team and Loki to come up with a plan and execute. Then in Age of Ultron he's fully in "take care of business and be funny" mode, leading into his search for the Infinity Stones heading into Ragnarok.

    He's been at this for two years and he's now a) fully-confident, b) still with his sense of humor, c) all about Asgard. It's honestly not even a stretch at all for the character development over five films.

    On top of that, all of his bluster moments are primarily whilst dealing with enemies... with his friends, he's serious. The whole scene with The Hulk in the bedroom is essentially playing it straight, same with Valkyrie. His lines with Loki, especially in the elevator about him thinking he and Loki would be off having adventures together forever, were played straight. I'm not really sure what the complaints are here...
     
  19. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Neither. They handled everything perfectly as far as I'm concerned.
     
  20. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Thor himself was fine, and I agree that his sense of humor has grown from his exposure to the snarkier Avengers. What disappointed me in this film is that humor was used to undercut some moments that could have been more powerful and moving to me if they were taken seriously. Imagine that in ESB, Vader said "I am your father" and then immediately made a dad joke. That would suck the dramatic impact out of the moment, for me anyway. There were moments like that in Ragnarok, notably by Korg, who was freaking hilarious IMO, but I think the story would have been better served with a more serious tone at certain dramatic moments.
     
  21. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

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    Sep 30, 2012
    You're right. There were two moments in the film where I thought the humour was misused:
    1. When Volstagg and Fandral died and Skurge said the line about only being the janitor. The Warrior's Three deserved so much better than that.
    2. When Asguard was destroyed. That was a huge moment and I felt bad for laughing at Korg.

    In my opinion, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 handled the emotional side a lot better. The film was absolutely hilarious, but ended on a serious note with Rocket crying at Yondu's funeral. That hit me hard.

    Note to all: I'm not putting down Thor 3 at all. It's one of my favourite MCU films. I'm just agreeing with what Sarge said.
     
  22. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

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    Nov 12, 2012
    This is a very funny movie that may almost undercut the drama but that's okay since it's on hyperspeed (which is saying a lot considering it's over 2 hours and the best stuff isn't really the action stuff but just characters crabbing at each other). I quibble a bit with some handwaving "Oh, time works differently here" to get to Thor is in the fighting pits and Loki is already a member of high society but that's fine. I'm not a big fan of the offhanded dismissal of most of the supporting cast from the two Thor movies (Warriors Three and Jane Foster) but the moments were striking. Also Thor being captured by a net and confined is a bit hard to swallow considering he can take on the Hulk but I guess that neck zappy thingie is really powerful (and maybe the net is made of that).

    I don't think it has the Space Pathos of the 1st thor movie that made it oddly kind of epic but it has zip, and zip is good, and having the Hulk being able to talk now is even better. The Gladiator Planet stuff is so good it makes the cutting back to Hela kind of a drag, and I'm not quite sure what Karl Urban is doing in the movie but he does it well. And even though Hela is a bit of a weak villain on the page of the "muha-ha--ha, I'm going to rule everything" mode, Blancett's performance actually makes her better. Thor has lost some of his Space God weightiness and is more of a quipping dolt but it plays to Hemsworth's strengths cuz he's actually really funny. And not to say Thor can't have moments of awesome power, the "what are you, the God of hammers? line was great. Also the brief Doctor Strange interlude felt like an unofficial sequel to What we Do in the Shadows which was appreciated. Also the Pure Imagination reference which was gleefully unexpected. One of my favourite MCU references was when Thor tried to take out the Hulk with the Black Widow "Sun's getting real low" line and it was awesome cuz it almost worked.

    One review I saw said this was the self-parody / Batman and Robin of the MCU but I disagree with that assessment. I don't think it's self parody at this point at all and the movie is downright almost constantly hilarious.
     
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  23. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Perhaps it's more a case of you always being the voice of dissent. About everything. Now to the point of criticising something you haven't even seen. As with Loki's antics in this movie, maybe it's becoming just too predictable.
     
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  24. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Saw it Saturday night in IMAX 3D (not sure if it was my seats or not but both the film and the Black Panther trailer before it had the 3D effect cranked up, if that’s possible. Forced your eye to focus on certain things even if you wanted to look elsewhere).

    Overall? Super entertaining film, but I come away from it with mixed thoughts. I’m all for the idea of some MCU entries being more like comedies but I felt like this one pushed too far into the comedic realm, beyond even GOTG. And that made it hard for some of the more dramatic aspects of the film to really carry the full weight they needed.

    Now, if that’s simply a case of Marvel wanting that more comedic tone for its cosmic stories, then that’s fine- this is more of a cosmic story than an Asgard/Earth story like the first two films. So, as a one-off comedic entry into the sub-franchise, I’m fine with that, but I just really hope they don’t take this approach for subsequent Thor films and keep making each film radically different in tone from one another, because I’ve been enjoying the variety within the Thor series and would hate to see that aspect lost in an attempt to cash in on GOTG’s success.

    Because of that undercutting of the drama, if we put aside The Dark World’s crippling underdeveloped villain problem, I think I’d say Ragnarok is the weakest film of the sub-series, while simultaneously being its most entertaining. The GOT-style grounded fantasy of TDW just works much better for these types of stories, IMO. The first film had more of a balance between family stage drama and fish out of water comedy that still worked, obviously, but never tilted fully in either direction.

    Also, I really enjoyed the retro score but, much like Iron Man 2’s score, it got drowned out by the sound effects in the mix far too often.

    That said, there’s very little else to complain about (well, no Kat, no mew-mew), but a lot of cool positive stuff to ponder:

    -Jeff Goldblum.

    -I liked that this film continues the trend of keeping the main conflict centered around Thor’s family (or, more often than not, specifically Odin’s past sins).

    -Pretty much all the character pairing work and banter was fantasic. Thor/Banner/Valkyrie, Korg/anybody listening, Strange/Loki/Thor, etc.

    -Thor’s personality has obviously also developed since the first film. His exposure to Earth and the Avengers has allowed his more jovial personality facets to manifest themselves more sharply. It’s refreshing to see characters adjust to the company they keep like one does around one’s friends in real life.

    -Hela is hela-awesome as a villain. She wasn’t as fully developed as Loki, Zemo or some others (her “no one knows who I am” angle provides some good character moments but they don;’t dive into as deeply as they could have like Thor 1 did with Loki’s history) but was absolutely threatening and fun to watch.

    -Scourge had a character arc that was too predictable but I liked the way the guilt seemed to build and build through every action of Hela. Plus, it’s hard to dislike Urban in anything.

    -The Warriors Three getting offed so fast I don’t really have a problem with, given the villain and such. What I really liked was that they killed Volstagg and Fandrall quickly while letting Hogun get the majority of screentime during the battle. It really makes up for him being sidelined in TDW where the other two played larger roles, so it helps balances out their presence across the trilogy.

    -Jeff Goldblum.

    -The sequence with Doctor Strange was excellent. It was everything I had hoped it would be based on the DS mid-credits stinger. I just love the whole pragmatic workman approach to the character- when combined with his whole doesn’t-care-what-disorients-you angle. Much better than the DS film itself. “I was falling for 30 MINUTES!!!” still makes me crack up whenever I think about it.

    -I love that they took the time to retcon the Asgardian Infinity Gauntlet. That was hilarious. So much for Feige’s “they come in pairs”, heh.

    -Jeff Goldblum. Though I’m surprised they didn’t hint at or establish his relationship to The Collector, because them just being genetically wacky could be played up for some great moments.

    -The use of a Willy Wonka-style sequence was so bizarrely great as well.

    -I wonder if the future new Asgard will return to New Mexico (tying into both the first film and the JMS Thor run that inspired/guided the first movie) or go to Norway (tying into Odin’s dialogue in Ragnarok).

    -Another good trilogy (well, Trilogy+Avengers) payoff is Thor finally learning to not fall for Loki’s tricks. Even though they’ve known each other for their whole lives, only now do they finally truly know each other.

    The credits mention they used the themes from both Thor 1 & TDW in the film (though, again, it’s hard to tell due to the sound mix), which is really fantastic and helps bring the trilogy together into something resembling a whole.

    It’s actually pretty interesting how things have turned around, in terms of character themes, recently in the MCU. Phase 2 & 3 seemed to purposefully steer away from using any recurring Phase 1 character themes except for Captain America’s and the Avengers’ (and “Shoot to Thrill” for Stark, if you count that). They gave an excuse about Iron Man’s theme always changing as he changes suits but hat never explained the changes in the non-Silvestri themes.

    But suddenly, here in the last stretch of Phase 3, that small group of themes which have appeared across multiple films has expanded rapidly to further include the Iron Man 3 theme, both Thor themes, the GOTG theme, the Doctor Strange theme, the Helicarrier theme and possibly the new Spider-Man theme (I still need to pick apart that score and cross check it with Civil War’s to verify, though). And we can probably expect the New Avengers theme to pop up somewhere in Infinity War’s score too.

    EDIT- Also, people seem to make comparisons/justifications in terms of the humor to Flash Gordon, but i have to ask- was Flash Gordon really a funny movie by intent? Obviously there are campy or cheesy things to laugh at in retrospect to that movie, but I never got the impression FG was trying to be a comedy like TR is. FG had a couple one-liners, sure, (it was the 80's, afterall) but most of the light humor we find in it today really wasn't there initially.

    I mean, visually and the score? Sure, totally FG. But the humor? I don't quite see the connection there.

    In regards to the hammer debate, I think the films make it clear that Thor's power is not tied to his hammer even in the first film, because Odin doesn't add the enchantment to the hammer until after he takes away Thor's power. In other words, Thor had to have had his power separate from the hammer for that to have been possible.


    I seem to recall Odin having a few dark secrets, particularly one during Fear Itself, where the Serpent that will devour the world is revealed to be Odin's lost brother. Likewise, Thor's lost sister was revealed to be Angela when Marvel acquired the character from Image.
     
  25. soitscometothis

    soitscometothis Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 11, 2003
    You crazy kids and your revisionist history! Yeah, Flash Gordon was always a deliberately campy romp and was always seen that way. Also, the 60's Batman series - also deliberately high camp. What they didn't do was have the characters tell the audience that they were aware of the tropes, more or less winking at the audience to let them know that the characters themselves were in on the joke. Modern audiences aren't used to that sort of trust in the audience, obviously.
     
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