"Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved." - when does this happen?

I was watching "ANH" on DVD again recently, and this conversation between Obi-wan and Luke really stood out:

LUKE: "No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter."

BEN: "That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

Is Ben referring to the time in Episode II when Anakin and Padme went to Tattoine to find Anakin's mother, and then left soon after? There was no indication here that Owen, who barely knew Anakin at that point, cared about his leaving Tattoine.

Right after "Attack of the Clones" came out and before the Clone Wars cartoon and all the info. on Episode III, because of the above quote, I had the impression that Anakin and Padme, after getting married at the end of Episode II, go to Tattoine together and live on the moisture farm with Owen, Beru, and Clieg Lars (Schmi's husband). And, at some point, I thought that Obi-wan comes and recruits Anakin to come fight in the Clone Wars, against the protests of Owen Lars.

However, now that we know what happens during the Clone Wars and Episode III, we know this doesn't happen. So, was this another of Obi-wan's "half-truths"? It sounds like it, but I wanted to see what others thought.

And, this quote of Obi-wan's is ambiguous as well:

BEN: "I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic crusade like your father did."

My interpretation of this is that it wasn't Luke's father that wanted him to have the lightsaber, but Obi-wan, but that it was true that Owen didn't want Luke to follow Obi-wan on some adventure; Obviously Owen knew that Anakin and Obi-wan fought together in the Clone Wars.

Since Obi-wan lied (or twisted the truth) in regards to Darth Vader "killing" Anakin, I guess he probably lied about other things as well.....

 

Huh?

 

You should have taken his advise.

 

I think he's referring to the conversation between Luke & Obi-Wan in Ep. IV. He wants to know when did Owen ever think Anakin "should have stayed [on Tatooine] and not gotten involved". Because it wasn't shown in AOTC where it probably should have been.

 

Sorry, guys. I sent this out accidentally just after writing the title and not the content in the message - you should be able to see the whole thing now. Thanks.

 

I considered this a lot after watching ANH again recently, in light of the PT.

My conclusion is that Obi-Wan is just completly spinning the truth to get Luke to leave Tattooine with him. Sure, it lowers my opinion of Obi-Wan--I could understand lying about Vader being Anakin, but the lies should stop somewhere--but it does fit in with the Obi-Wan that we've come to know from the PT.

 

Or, given the consequences, he could be suggesting that young Anakin should never have left Tatooine and got involved with the damn fool idealistic crusade (the jedi order) in the first place.

Whatever, it's either Kenobi-spin or it's Owen's actual opinion and whichever is the case, it has no effect at all on way the stroy pans out.

For the record, I prefer to think of it as Owen's actual opinion, because it chimes so much better with the way Mr and Mrs Lars react to Luke mentioning kenobi and the spin THEY have put on who Luke's father is. It makes them have a more active effect on the story than brief cameos followed by horrific, off screen death.

 

1. Kenobi manipulation
2. Another Lucas continuity hole.

 

My conclusion is that Obi-Wan is just completly spinning the truth to get Luke to leave Tattooine with him. Sure, it lowers my opinion of Obi-Wan--I could understand lying about Vader being Anakin, but the lies should stop somewhere--

Well what would you expect Obi to tell Luke that Vader hurt his mother and that is why she is not here? If anybody was lying it was Anakin. I mean when Luke confronted him in ROTJ he all but denied Anakin even existed but Luke knew better.

 

From Owen's perspective; there were likely dozens of conversations with Shmi about his step brother who left as a little boy to become a Jedi.

Later when he learns that he fell to the darkside, he probably feels that the Jedi training was what ruined Anakin. So he instilled that onto Luke and probably at some point expressed this to Ben, which is why Luke is discouraged from seeing him. Anakin not being there might have been a large source of pain for Shmi and if so Owen likely experienced this on a daily basis.

Personally, before the prequals came out, I had sort of expected there to be some conversation where Anakin has to make a choice to join the Jedi or stay on the Lars Homestead, but it still works out the way it plays in the films, and anyway it may have been preconcieved this way from the start.

 

he just says that either owen thought that anakin should not have been a jedi or he thought he shouldn't have fought in the clone wars...

 

Sometimes I wish we had the emoticon of the smiley shooting itself here.....

Does EVERY single OT line have to be explained in the PT?

It probably reflects a conversation/arguement that Ben and Owen had in the 20 years between ROTS and ANH.

 

isn't it in a jedi's charactor not to lie...?

 

There is 2 time gaps here the ten yrs between TPM and AOTC where Shmi is Married to Clieg it would seem logical for her to mention her beloved Son Anakin to them.

And the 20 yrs between ROTS and ANH where Ob1 lies to Owen about Anakin dying in the Jedi purge and that would alter his perception of the jedi's and what if Anakin had stayed

 

-The Lars met Ani and his partner.
-They were related via Ani's mother.
-They watched and shared Ani's grief as he was unable to save her.
-They later find Ani has died (and/or become a mechanical freak) and agree to look after his son, while Obi shuffles off to live as an estranged hermit.

Does it really need explaining - do we really need a scene where Owen actually says: "Ani would have been better off if he had stayed here and not gotten involved. He may have been able to save his mother, and he himslef may not have died (and/or be turned into a mechanical freak)."

I mean, can't we just take that as a given and just let the poignant montage do the talking.

What next. What dialogue "must" be added for our tiny minds to make sense of ROTS?

"I hate you! But I am leaving you now and I would just like to point out that I am still just a learner... Oh - and give that saber to my son. Ouch that smarts!"
"Blast it - Buzz Droids! Oh but I'll be okay - Anakin is the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior..."

Sheesh.

 

Kenobi: What shall I tell Luke? The Lars family?

Yoda (getting into escape pod to head for Dagobah): Lie to them all, you shall. Disinformation shall now be your ways.

Kenobi: But, is deception not the path to the Dark Side?

Yoda: Not a whole string of Little White Lies. Jedi-approved, they are.

 

BEN: "That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

I think Pablo explained pretty well that Anakin should not have made the choice to leave Tatooine in TPM. He got involved with the Jedi, left home and came to a bad end. And poor Owen had to live with an "incomplete stepmother", according to Pablo!

Why do people search for plot holes when there are none?

 

Obi was basically just spinning a load of bull to Luke on Tatooine. He wanted Luke to leave, and so was using his old manipulation skills to this end.

 

Why do people insist on saying Obi-Wan lied to Luke all the time?

This isnt some Obi-Wan scheme/plot to lie to Luke about things that he doesnt think he should know...what it is is George Lucas not being consistant...period.

Every time something in the OT isnt explained right people start coming up with "maybe he really meant this" or "from this certain point of view he's telling the truth"


C'MON....this is nothing more than another plothole created by GL.




EDIT: And IMO this can easily be fixed. All that has to happen is we hear Anakin telling Obi-Wan, "well everytime I go to Tattoine my step brother tries to convince me to stay" or something to that effect.

It's simple, it doesnt take a lot of time, it explains how Obi-Wan knows where Owen is, and forms a relationship between two step brothers, and clears up 30 years of confusion amongst fans "in less than 60 seconds", whether or not he'll do it remains to be seen.

 

I am personally fed up with the overanalization of these lines.
First of all, these movies where made over 20 years ago! So, as they flow together pretty well, there will still be some lines that do not connect so perfectly.
What I love most about the Star Wars movies is that it is not all layed out on screen. There is a lot to be left to the imagination or EU.


Look at it as Obi Wan is in a "last hope" scenario. If he were to lay everything out on the table for Luke, the poor boy would be overwhelmed. (Not to mention crushed by the legacy of his father)
Obi Wan was appropriate to bend the truth for Luke.

I mean, Jesus found out the truth on what he was supposed to do when he was 12 and we all know how that turned out... j/k

 

That line was said because the original story (or script) was that Obi-Wan discovered Anakin on Tattoine when he was around the same age as Luke. His decision to leave with Obi-Wan and train as a Jedi was considerd foolish by Lars. I know this has changed and Lucas can probably explain it from the AOTC incident. Anakin and Lukes early lives were very similar.

 

I'm so sick and tired of people complaining about these " continuity holes, " or " plot holes. " It's NOT! Obi-Wan could have been referring to Anakin ever leaving Tatooine in the first place as a child, or after burying his mother. Maybe Owen and Anakin had a conversation while taking a piss together out back after Shmi's funeral, where Owen told Anakin he should stay with them. Maybe after receiving Obi-Wan's transmission Owen said something. Does EVERYTHING have to be explained or happen onscreen for it to happen in the GFFA? People DO have conversations that aren't in the movies. Anyway it's pretty minor, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Why would Owen care so much about someone he doesnt even know joining the war?


C'mon now....But hey, if it makes you feel good to think like that then more power to you, but I think you know the real reason.


EDIT: How does Rocky's son go from being 8 years old to 13 while Rocky's in Russia training for a fight?

PLOTHOLES....I hate em!

 

I strongly agree with Holocron_Collector.

I always figured that Owen was referring to Anakin leaving Tattooine in TPM. The line might have gone "Your Uncle didn't think Anakin should have left and become a Jedi, he didn't hold with those ideals. He thought he should have stayed here on this planet and not gotten involved with the Jedi and the war" etc.

 

Obi-Wan is not the liar fans have made his out to be. Everything Ben tells Luke in ANH is the truth from his point of view. Ben DOES believe Vader killed Anakin, as we'll see in ROTS. The good man WAS destroyed. Also, Ben is referring to Owen's belief that none of this would've happened had Anakin never left Tatooine to become a Jedi. Shmi would've lived, Anakin wouldn't have fallen and the galaxy wouldn't be suffering 20 years of war. Better if he'd stayed out of it all.