Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by sashlon1138, Nov 18, 2012.
Yeah. You are so trolling.
and how is participating in a discussion about possible villains for ep 7 'trolling'? jerk
Jar Jar, as Sidious' apprentice.
If Yoda was bad.... if Yoda was Plagueis...... if Sidious was good.... then why wouldn't Yoda go help Luke fight Vader and then go off and fight Sidious too and why did Yoda failed at destroying Sidious at the end of the Revenge of the Sith if Yoda was really Plagueis and if Plagueis is in fact more powerful than Sidious, right?
Years ago, I devoted a considerable amount of time contemplating how I would approach a sequel trilogy. I tried to think of ways to continue the saga while maintaining the integrity of the existing films i.e. the prophecy, the eradication of the Sith, balance to the Force etc. Being a bit of a nut, it really exploded into a whole story treatment in my head, though I only wrote it in fragments. It was a pretty massive amount of time that accumulated towards it, snowballing to the point where I obsessed over the philosophy and moral themes of my imagined trilogy. I could have coalesced my thoughts into a fleshed out synopsis or treatment or even script, though I refrained from doing so, since I saw it as futile. I never expected there to actually be any sequel trilogy, but now that there is going to be one, I feel that it might have been worth a shot.
I was always reluctant to share my thoughts on the sequel trilogy, but now I feel fine in shooting my load on the matter now that the films are underway. I'll share what I came up with insofar as regards villains (even though no one is asking for my opinion ... ... ... ).
I actually had several "villains" in mind, but one of the themes I wanted to convey was the subjectivity of morality, especially in war. The way I imagined it, the Empire, having lost its psychopathic despot, would be helmed by an infinitely more moderate successor, and would progressively become more just and less totalitarian. After all, the Empire was a machine of tyranny driven by the Sith, and with someone else behind the wheel, it could be steered on a far loftier course. The Rebel Alliance, however, would have a serious axe to grind, incensed over the years of Palpatine's rule and the horrors from it, and the Rebel leaders might continue the fight no matter what concession they may have gained from the last Emperor's demise. The new Emperor (for there must have been a mode of succession in a galactic civilisation, so no factional strife for me thanks!) might occupy the office of a dictator, but he/she would not be the megalomaniacal monster that Darth Sidious was, and perhaps try to restore representation of the people to the Empire (though living through the decline of the Old Republic disillusioned him from the bureaucratic inefficiencies of that kind of government). He would be a statesmen first and foremost, not a closet fanatic of an ancient religious order. Picture Bill Nighy's character in the last Harry Potter films. Let's call him Rege Lobel. The Rebels wouldn't care. They would keep on attacking the Empire with the fervent hatred instilled in their bones by Order 66, Imperial seizures of property, political assassinations, Alderaan and Palpacare . The galaxy at large was unaware of Palpatine's Sith solidarity, so can not expect anything but the same from the new boss.
I placed the factional strife within the Rebel Alliance. The leadership would splinter on the matter of how best to deal with what some see as an increasingly democratic Empire. The Alliance would have its moderates, its extremists and even defectors to the Empire. Also, I liked the idea that the Rebellion was, in the long run, doomed. With the new Emperor making sweeping changes to his predecessor's regime, more and more systems relent in their opposition to the Empire and their support of the Alliance. The Alliance is atrophying, bleeding out from the Emperor's open hand, not his closed fist. Imagine Han, disenchanted with the Rebellion's chances and seeing the pacifist streak in the new Emperor, trying to convince the now pregnant Leia to abandon the fight against the Empire, settle somewhere and raise a family while Leia refuses to back down from the fight that destroyed her family and home planet (a scene which would harken back to Vader's attempted seduction of Luke). Han would "exile" himself into Imperial territory, where he and Chewie are utilised by the Empire (smuggling plans, being pilots, military commanders or something else), fighting against the Rebellion which they helped score such a decisive victory, while Leia coordinates an increasingly desperate campaign.
That is all fairly boring political stuff in its general form, so if you've read along this far, you'll be pleased to know that I'm getting on to the most tantalising bits which Star Wars is all about; the Jedi and the Force.
Basically, Luke would have disappeared from the known galaxy. No one, not even Han or Leia, would know where he went. Perhaps I'd have mentioned this in the opening crawl, if I were to introduce him later in the film. Of course, he is alive and well, having embarked on a journey to master the Force, since his training is incomplete. Rewatch ROTJ, you'll see that Yoda's tutelage only took Luke so far. Yoda's imminent passing made it necessary for him to goad Luke into confronting the Sith Lords somewhat prematurely (though it was a gamble that paid off ). Therefore, Luke sees the Jedi Order in a very perilous state, with himself as its sole inheritor, and he is entirely not up to the task. Despite this, his zealous devotion to the legacy of his father and his teachers spurs him to seek out a Padawan. He finds a Force-sensitive youth (lets call him Kane, why not?), who he knows must be trained in the Jedi Arts, that the Force has brought him here for a reason. Perhaps he's an orphan, in which case, no problem. If not, then we have the boy's mother, who is not open to the idea. Luke, bent on reestablishing the Jedi Order, acts out of desperation and abducts the child. Kane is raised by the burgeoning Jedi Knight, who finds that Kane's path to Knighthood is rife with disasters and mistakes, causing Luke to fret and despair that the Jedi might die with him. Lukely for him, he is not in fact the only one left in the galaxy with Jedi knowledge. A surviving Jedi Master seeks Luke out, rebuffing him for taking on a pupil without being a Master himself, but offering to complete his training. However, he will not train Kane, as "his destiny lies elsewhere". The two Jedi arranged for Kane to be left in the care of whatever the galactic equivalent of an orphanage is, or perhaps back with his mother if not an orphan. It is almost as if Kane's life was going to mirror Anakin's, being taken (forcibly or not) from his home to train as a Jedi, only to have his life turned around again when he is dumped back on whatever planet he is from, leaving him an emotionally disturbed wreck (with Force powers, mind you). He would have learned a small but tantalising amount from Luke, but he can not expand his powers without a mentor. Which is where the Sith come in, or rather, the Sith Cult...
I maintained the position of the saga that the Sith had indeed been destroyed when Anakin threw Sidious in the garbage and then died himself. The prophecy to me is a mysterious topic, but I found that negating it by showing its source to be unreliable or that it was drastically "misread" was cheap and undermined the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin. In my sequel trilogy, there would be certain stipulations that the prophecy would have been referring to, which I'll explain presently.
Firstly, even though "always two there are; no more, no less", I found it hard to believe that the Sith kept the knowledge of their own existence between two members at all times. There would be practical need for others trained in the ways of the Dark Side, but not necessarily that of the Sith. The films seem to suggest that one can fall to the Dark Side without becoming a Sith. It seems some special training is required for that. Therefore, I submit that while there may have only been two Sith Lords at any given time since their fall over a millennia prior to TPM, there would be a whole slew of entities around those two to serve them.
Think of Mas Amedda and that creepy looking bald woman that accompanied Sidious after his Chancellorship, and those robed figures leaving the Emperor's throne room when Luke is brought in (I think). Mas Amedda watched as Sidious threw Yoda across a room and just calmly walked out, reappearing after the fight was over by Sidious' side. Clearly, he was privy to some special information regarding "Palpatine's" true nature. In my mind, they were all part of a cult that the Sith built around themselves, teaching them just enough about the Dark Side that they could be used for whatever purposes they so designed but not enough to gain "Sithship". Imagine the Sith equivalent to Jedi Padawans whose training was intentionally kept incomplete, and brainwashed through "Sith Mind Tricks" (more like Sith Mind Domination) to be fervently loyal to their Sith Lords. In this way, I satisfied myself that I had preserved the "Rule of Two" and the validity of the prophecy.
The Sith are over. Gone. Dead. Prophecy fulfilled. All that's left are their little Dark Side fanatic parasites. But they're pissed.
These Sith acolytes find themselves in a similar position to Luke, having lost the only ones who could perpetuate their teachings, though they aren't going to be rescued by a secret Sith. And, on account of their brainwashing by Sidious, they reject any usurper of the Sith mantle (those strong enough to break the Mind Domination). In fact, some principal acolytes may actually be free of the Mind Domination, but still maintain (through lingering loyalty fostered over their lifetimes in the cult) that a Sith should possess Sith teachings, which no one has anymore. So, the Sith are royally screwed. And they have Luke Skywalker to thank for it.
I envisioned the Sith Cult being led by a woman, who emerged as the de facto Steward to the Sith Lords amongst the power vacuum. Picture that Ep II concept art for the female Sith that was replaced by Count Dooku, but led to Assaj Ventress. Throw in a bit of Kreia from KOTOR II. Hell, perhaps she is that freaky bald chick seen in the PT that I mentioned earlier. Let's call her Sarios Morne, the matriarch of the Sith Cult. The most powerful adept of the Dark Side left in the galaxy, but a Sith she ain't.
Morne and her Sithly cohorts scramble to consolidate the Cult, who are going absolutely and literally insane without their Sith Lords. Their brainwashing causes them to despair, leading to more than a few suicides by the more deeply engineered ones. Those audacious enough to posture as true Sith are quickly killed by the panic-stricken but still loyal majority. Morne, having had a close relationship with Sidious for years, unites the acolytes, promising them, if nothing else, their final revenge against the Jedi.
So, Morne keeps tabs on Luke's travels. He is elusive, but the trail picks up after he leaves Kane in his old life. Morne sees in Kane a way to exact revenge on Luke; by continuing his training in the Dark Side. Taken under the tutelage of the Cult, the impressionable Kane is allowed to revel in the power that that his former teacher bade him to never touch. Feeding on his anger, his resentment for being abandoned, Kane hones his skills for one purpose; to destroy Luke Skywalker.
Meanwhile, Luke completes his training under his new Master. While no Yoda or Obi-Wan, he is learned enough to impart the knowledge to make Luke a Jedi Master. The Master finds Luke to be an exceptional pupil, mastering the Jedi Arts more swiftly than he could ever have expected. Bestowing upon Luke the title of Master, the two part ways; Luke to return to the galaxy at large, the Master off to find another student. Before Luke makes it back to Imperial space, he is confronted by the now teenage Kane, who is a twisted mess, turned into a ravenous warrior, seething with hatred and bloodlust. As they duel, Luke tries to get past the rage, to help Kane transcend his passions, but it is no use. Kane is bent on killing Luke, and in his struggle to defend himself, Luke accidentally deals a lethal blow. Horrified at what he has done to Kane physically by wounding him and spiritually by leaving him, Luke is shaken to his core with guilt and gives up the Jedi mantle.
It would be seen that this was Morne's plan. She had Kane trained specifically to fail against Luke, to weaken his conviction to restoring the Jedi Order. By making him understand the true nature of the Force, she plans on drawing Luke to the Dark Side. In this way, she plans to bring back the Sith. For Luke is part of the only legacy left by the Sith lineage; the Skywalker family is the direct result of Darth Plagueis' meddling with the midichlorians. Just as the original Skywalker arose out of the Force, so too will the Sith rise again out of the Skywalkers. They have a unique connection to the Force, and have the potential to be the greatest Sith of all time. With Luke no longer a Jedi, Morne will attempt to have Luke lead the Cult and, perhaps one day, lead them as a Sith Lord. And if he doesn't, they will settle for revenge on him, setting sights on Leia and her unborn children.
The Sith Cultists aren't the only ones who recognise the unique nature of the Skywalkers. Throughout the sequel trilogy, I introduced a character, seemingly a Jedi but clad in face-concealing armour, scouting the places in the galaxy where Anakin was said to live. There would be a mystery as to who he is and what his purposes are, until later where it would be revealed that he is Sifo-dyas, mentally programmed by the Kaminoans to be a Force-adept agent. Despite the Kaminoans' doe-eyed expression and breathy voices, I reimagined them as a separate faction that had its own purposes. I won't get into too much detail about this, but one of the Kaminoans primary goals was to create clones that could use the Force. In my mind, the cloning process could not duplicate midichlorians, so all clones in the galaxy were not Force sensitive. The midichlorians have their own unique processes of reproduction and heredity that are beyond the capacity of anyone in the galaxy to understand, even the gene-crazy Kaminoans. However, they come to learn that Anakin was a being created of the Force, independent of human coupling. Very important to me is the idea that the Skywalker connection to the Force is far more than just an abundance of midichlorians. In fact, I might have had it that Plagueis had that abundance to conceal Anakin's true nature. So, the Kaminoans see in Anakin's existence a potential way to create Force-sensitives without traditional reproduction. So they captured the Jedi Sifo-dyas and made him their errand runner, gathering whatever genetic material they can recover of Anakin. Learning of Anakin's children, they task him with bringing them one.
I've probably gone on long enough. What I've said would mostly take place in Ep VII, and there is a lot more I could perambulate about. There's a lot more about the Sith Cult I thought of, like how they choose to infiltrate the Rebel Alliance as Sidious did the Old Republic and Kane still being alive to return as a Vader-esque cyborg in the last episode. I even have an outline for a further trilogy that takes us thousands of years into the galaxy's future, but that's all a bit crazy and would probably make you think I don't get Star Wars .
Anyway, I think I might have given some insight into what most of the "villains" would have been like.
The Rebellion would become more drastic and terroristic, making them depart from their heroic beginnings as defeat becomes inevitable.
The Empire would still be a formidable titan of authoritarian power, but without the Sith leadership it would be nowhere near the tyranny it once was.
The Sith Cult, under Sarios Morne, are naturally villainous. With them, the promise of lightsabers and battles between Force-users would be kept in this sequel trilogy.
Meanwhile, the Kamioans have their own designs for the galaxy at large which would not become fully known until nearer the end, and in fact carry on into the next trilogy, into a galaxy far, far into the future...
I've sat on that all for a while, but it's good to have it out in the open. I don't know how many of you will actually read it, but I like the idea of sharing creativity with others and I'll get on to reading other people's ideas.
can the new villain use the light and dark side of the force?
The ST has a chance to introduce the most complex villains yet.
You could have a out front moustache twirling villain in a secondary role while a more complex and challenging main villain emerges throughout the films.
I say challenging because it's been said winning wars can be easier than winning the peace.
It could hold true for a post-Palpatine galaxy.
Imagine some of the questions a nefarious villain could ask:
Who makes up the alliance anyway?
We see some of the leaders but who do they represent? What are their goals after winning the war?
Do they want to restore the Old Republic? Oh great....because that ended up so well.
Do they want to restore the Jedi Order? Yeah.....
A Senate infiltrated by a Sith Lord who then declared himself Emperor? Yeah, sounds great! Let's bring all that back and throw a party!
By the way, Luke and Leia Skywalker are the offspring of the former Sith Lord Darth Vader.
These could be looked at by the regular populace as very troubling ideas, epsecially after a highly destructive war was just fought over them.
And we never got a chance to see how Leia dealt with the idea that Vader was her father too. Nope, skipped right past that part.
can the main villains be other jedi? or ancient jedi or old republic jedi?
What ever they come up with, it better be someone that has that same Iconic and intimidating presence that Vader and the Emperor had in the OT.
It must be true, some random Australian said so on the internet! http://irregularwebcomic.net/3213.html
The first time I saw Phantom Menace, I thought Kenobi stabbed Maul. I didn't realize that Kenobi sliced Maul in half. So I was about 14 years old in 1999. So, I saw that film in the theatre several times just to try to figure out whether Maul was stabbed or sliced.
The villain should be different than what we've seen so far in SW. Mad scientist, SPECTER, evil genius, etc. The idea is to go in a new direction.
Star Wars has to have lightsabers for the good and bad guys, period.
I can agree, as there is a saber fight in every film,.......as long as you don't mean EVERY BAD GUY IN THE FILM
why can't there be trillions of bad guys with lightsabers in future Star Wars films?
Let's do avoid name-calling and personal attacks, mmmmmkay?
Here's a thought, why not have a group of evil Force Users that outnumber the Jedi this time? It woud make for an interesting story, knowing the Jedi are again facing extinction.
You know, if it was a movie actually done say in the 1980s and say it followed the same storyline, then i would actually consider the fact that Sidious may have had (and yes, i know this is an EU concept) some "Hands" in the sidelines. would have been good to see Luke struggle and build up the Jedi order whilst facing threats from said darksiders.
But to answer your question. It's not a bad idea. Personally i would not mind seeing a many Jedi vs many Sith battle, kinda like the first SWTOR trailer. that was really cool.
Very interesting! Many thanks for sharing!
Well, as far as I remember, Maul falling down the shaft in two pieces was censored in some countries/states...
wasn't the 'blood' you see puffing up away from the body reclassified as actually 'dye' from his tattoos
Unlikely to have been blood (IMO) because Lightsabers cauterise as they cut - but it could well have been smoke from singed/smouldering robes.
I always htought it was blood until the whole lightsabers cauterize as they go through thing stuck, hence the whole dye comment which i read somewhere.
When I first saw Ep 2, I thought it was the darkside energy leaving Maul, like it did Sidious. But instead of exploding like the Emperor did, Maul (who didn't have as much darkside energy inside of him) merely went out with a mist.
Of course, this doesn't explain Dooku, who died without explosion, mist, or anything.
It would be fun if the hero would not start as a jedi, instead he would belong to some other force using tradition like the Matukai, Jensaarai, Shaper of Kro Var. These are EU organisations but you get the idea.