Speculation Thoughts about a new villain

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by sashlon1138, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I'd prefer, perhaps, a political foe-like Dooku without the Force, or Tarkin-y TBH. Sure, he's not going to be confronting the heroes directly..and that's what'd make him so nasty. Vader has that veneer of honor because he takes personal risks; Tarkin never does. Make him a slimy coward.
  2. Darth_Kiryan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2009
    star 4
    I'd like that, perhaps with a force-user under his control, or something like that.
  3. Ferus Olin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2012
    star 1
    Grievous because he's the most accomplished non-force user in lightsaber combat and he would be a threat to any Jedi. Even tough he is dead his body was mainly intact so just clone him or the remains of the empire resurrect him again in a non lame way.
  4. Ferus Olin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2012
    star 1
    It is until we see the episodes from the Clone Wars. Black Sun is the biggest and most dangerous crime syndicate is the Star Wars galaxy.
    Echo-07 likes this.
  5. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    People leave too much import to the prophecy and how the OT played out and what it means going forward. All that was about was an event that thrust the entire galaxy under control of an oppressor. Prophecies are a very ambiguous thing and it doesn't mean there will never ever be a Sith uprising again, it just was about that particular uprising is all.

    Any new Sith enemy that comes along is operating outside the bounds of that prophecy now, thus it would do nothing to diminish what Anakin/Luke accomplished.
    Last edited by EviL_eLF, Nov 24, 2012
  6. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    So you want Nute Gunray to come back?
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9

    Yeah; that'd be interesting.
  8. Darth Horn Rollo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    Yoda admits in ROTS that the prophecy might have been misread, which makes me think that it was intended to be ambiguous, at best. And the prophecy may not be intended to extend indefinitely. Perhaps Anakin fulfilled the prophecy, but a re-emergence of some dark power (Sith, Mandalorians, whatever) may disrupt the balance, requiring a response from Luke and any new Jedi, against the wishes of many in the galaxy. Leia, as a prominent Senator, is feeling the pressure from her constituents to prevent a Jedi revival while Luke is absolutely convinced that a full restoration of the Jedi order is necessary. The new villain(s) seek to exacerbate the tensions between Luke and Leia.
  9. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    During the scene where Vader chats with Sidious on Mustafar, GL says in the commentary "get rid of the Sith and bring balance to The Force." Also, what's the point of Anakin's sacrifice if the Sith take over AGAIN?
  10. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I don't want the Sith returning either, but...their return really doesn't effect the symbolism of what Anakin did at all.
  11. EviL_eLF Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 4
    GL says a lot of things that are contradicted later. Take anything he says with a grain of salt to begin with. Just a few months ago he was quoted saying there would never be another Star Wars movie... look how that's turning out.

    The point of Anakin's sacrifice is to restore freedom to the entire Galaxy. The prophecy never said it was an eternal solution.... just a solution for that individual situation. Guess what... times change, new evil comes around, and as long as there are force users, that evil has potential to become Sith.

    The PT Jedi order was too arrogant to believe that was possible, Luke, having almost turned himself, will know that dark potential can be found in any force user.
    Last edited by EviL_eLF, Nov 24, 2012
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  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    It's handled decently enough in the EU, post-ROTJ. Sure, there's Sith...but none of them are ever as successful as Palpatine was. He had the galaxy literally cheering to be enslaved.
    Jedi Merkurian and EviL_eLF like this.
  13. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 5
    I was responding to people reading so much into Yoda's misread comment.
  14. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    They should not have Palpatine, Vader or Maul in these new next generation movies, I'm sure they can hire some creative minds & come up with a new villan & new heroes to counter the villans. We don't need to see any old faces
  15. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Black Sun would make an excellent villain IMO. I wouldn't even mind if they kept Prince Xizor or created a new leader but Black Sun as one element along with Imperial remnants could be a very intriguing villain. And then of course Black Sun could have a motley crew or rogue's gallery of intersting sub-villains and bounty hunters/hitmen.
  16. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    What presence has Black Sun had on TCW? I thought it was just a reference on Ziro's tattoo.
  17. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Has to be the mandalorians, but under the control of a shadowy figure (not an actual shadow but someone in the background, ie thanos-like). That way set up a new trilogy in the vein of the avengers. They would make a decent foe for the Jedi too. Boba fett leading them as "mandalore"?
    TreborSabreon and Echo-07 like this.
  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I'm cool with anything Mandalorian. They deserve their own movie too.
    Echo-07 likes this.
  19. Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    I think it's easy to forget how much technology and weaponry has acted as a threat in Star Wars because we more regularly discuss the things that Star Wars is most known for and the areas that make it more fantasy-like and unique. We want to know which masters were best in which areas. However, technology has consistently played a much bigger role in Star Wars than often realized. As powerful as Vader and the Emperor were as individuals, they knew that technology won wars and would keep them safe. They knew they were no match in regular hand-to-hand combat against almost anybody alive but they also knew that combat was changing and that if they didn't build something like the Death Star... perhaps some other threat elsewhere in the galaxy would.

    And as terrifying as Vader and the Emperor were individually, there was nothing more terrifying than the realization that a weapon existed capable of destroying planets that had just been tested and worked perfectly. The Death Star was in many ways its own villainous presence and I think that's often overlooked when discussing Star Wars antagonism. It's a bit like the Ring in LOTR in that way. It's just a thing. It's something that was made. But in the wrong hands it's more terrifying than even the main villain individually and it played a huge part in A New Hope and to a lesser extent Return of the Jedi.

    Yes, Luke's mastery of the force helped him aim two proton torpedos right into the Death Star but everything before and after was technology-driven. Luke could have been killed by laser blasts at any time. Luke could have been shot down and killed by technology. Same for Vader. Even the trap the emperor set was technology-related in ROTJ. So, while the force unquestionably played a huge role... so too did technology (not to mention the power of relationships both good and bad). The reason I'm bringing this up is because I want to remind that as powerful as Jedi and Sith can be individually... a new villain could still be mighty terrifying with some really awesome weaponry that has put all the planets that our heroes care about at risk.

    I don't think the new primary villain has to be a force user for this reason. I don't think he or she has to wield a saber either. In fact, I like the idea of the Jedi arts being viewed as all but extinct and ancient once again and the new heroes AND villains both thinking that sabers are outdated and without much use any longer (until they become useful later on in the story) I like the idea of them being from a completely different place like the New Jedi Order storyline and less humanoid too. These villains need to come in and just be ruthless and unstoppable and different than what we're familiar with in Star Wars.

    The prequels had a lot of saber duels because it was supposed to be the beginning of the end of that "civilized era." And it ushered in one of the best master/apprentice villain Sith relationships ever because of that but in order for these new movies to work I think we need to move past that now. We've devoted 6 movies to that concept and I for one want to see some force users going up against a completely different kind of villain utilizing weaponry that makes the Death Star look outdated by comparison. I'm imagining a reluctant, spoiled, new generation (perhaps Han and Leia's kids) who don't really listen much to Uncle Luke... Until the invasion happens. And this invasion is awful and unlike anything we've seen in Star Wars before. Luke senses its presence before it hits and gets the kids to escape to safety and the invasion kills all the old vets we've known and loved. So, now our heroes are orphaned and angry and vengeful. Perhaps there's a new mentor with them to help guide them and we learn more about these new villains and just how powerful their weapons are and our group eventually decides they're not going to just going to run and allow other planets to suffer the same fate theirs just did and they create a plan in order to fight back. I'd be completely fine with episode VII having less in the way of Jedi arts until later on in the story (perhaps via Luke explaining to one of them about the force and the danger of revenge) and more to do with friendship and ingenuity trumping weaponry. That was a huge part of why A new Hope was so much fun and I think Ardnt will seek to recapture those aspects because he's very good at creating disfuctional relationships who come together through adversity. The cool thing about this new villainous race is that it could unknowingly set up force-related implications for episodes VIII and IX. In the New Jedi Order storyline we knew that Jacen is tortured. Ardnt could take liberty with that and have him captured during the "victory" in episode VII. He could come out that forever changed and begin his descent to the dark side, setting up a powerful brother vs sister familial storyline for episode IX. But in order to get to all that fun stuff... I think Ardnt (and Star Wars) need a completely new army of villain to arrive, occupy and enslave and those guys... need to just be tough and have very strong weapons. They don't need to be force users.
    Last edited by Ender_and_Bean, Dec 2, 2012
  20. vypernight Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 2
    What about someone from the techno union? Someone with nearly-unlimited resources in technology, combined with mastery of the Dark Side could be an interesting being to face.
  21. Cantina Bassist Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    I still think it should be Maximillian from the Black Hole.
    Panakas_Dawg likes this.
  22. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    You should read my thread on the Infinite emPire being the villain. Makes a lot of sense in terms of continuity and scope.
  23. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Black Sun hasn't made an appearance in TCW yet, but the Season 5 trailers show that they will make an appearance at some point after the Christmas break.
    LawJedi likes this.
  24. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Because it would be up to the Skywalkers to maintain the balance of the Force.
  25. boletus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2008
    star 1
    I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see elements of the Clone Wars animated series pop-up. Regardless of people's feelings on it, George is very hands on with it and it's something that at least one generation of fans are consuming presently. Characters (if the don't die in the series) like Ahsoka, Ventress, Cad Bane (all non-humans for age watchers out there) & the Death Watch (Mandalorians) might at least have cameos to help bridge things along. I'm really not sure how I feel about it, but it wouldn't shock me. I see tying the two trilogies together happening. I only hope that it isn't shoehorned in--well at least doesn't feel that way. Many of the aspects of the show are based on original artwork, and concepts directly from George's head. While he won't be at the helm per se, he definitely has already influenced the direction of the story. That much seems clear.

    That said as far as villains are concerned, I think you could do worse than working in some bada$$ Mandalorians or the sith witches of Dathomir. Original material/games/eu/what-have-you had the sith witches riding rancors, later they morphed into the Night Sisters of TCW. I wouldn't mind seeing something with them. It doesn't have to be Ventress, or even the same group (a different "tribe" or order). I'm hoping for a little moral ambiguity, and I think both of these options could hold decent possibilities. I think we'll need a nice backdrop of different "villains" or even red herrings as the "big bad" is now gone and we need to figure out what is happening next.

    I like the ideas of having the political world be in turmoil. Without the Emperor, what happens next. It can't be all sunshine, rainbows & life day feelings. Lucas loves to draw on parallels in the real world. What about greeting Coruscant expecting to be treated as liberators but some people fundamentally disagree with the Rebels who have been viewed as little more than a terrorist organization by the people of the planet? Of course if we have Han, Luke & Leia this is going to have be set long after some of these things would have been dealt with. In any event a villainous military or political foe could be great as well, possibly joining with some other faction whether it be underworld fringe, or some sort of dark side (or even ambiguous force) acolyte.

    For anyone who thinks that there are no force sensitive beings left, I think that is reading between lines that were never written. "Last of the Jedi will you be... Pass on what you have learned..." It was not force sensitive beings. The Jedi had to seek out younglings to train at a very young age. Someone posted something about there being no Jedi lineage left--they weren't supposed to love or have attachments which kinda puts the kibosh on great Jedi houses. Luke will be building a new order, or at least trying to. There will be some sort of force sensitive villain at some point. I'm not saying it has to be a Sith/Apprentice relationship, but something would and should be there somewhere. Even if it takes three movies to do it.