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PT Thoughts about Jedi rapport/relationships with other citizens, fellow Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by DarthTalonx, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    A Jedi's role in the galaxy

    At the height of their power, and guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy, with powers that many did not understand, though having an "official" role in the galaxy, how would the Jedi be perceived when interacting with galactic citizens? Especially given their apparent patronage by the Republic (starships, the Jedi Temple etc). Can the Jedi police the galaxy (Deathsticks) according to their own will versus being apathetic and merely observing whilst the Republic doesn't act?

    Friendships with outsiders

    What of their relationships and interactions with others? For instance we see examples where Obi Wan is friends with Dex, that Yoda has good relations with the Wookies, and instances where the Naboo recognise who the Jedi are. So Jedi have friends?

    The perceptions of the Jedi

    There are also humorous moments where Watto for instance says to Qui Gon does he think he's some sort to Jedi waving his hands around, and that golden moment in AOTC with Obi Wan telling a citizen, "You don't want to sell me Death Sticks...You're going to go home and rethink your life!"

    Citizens flirting with Jedi, or vice versa


    We also see up a few citizens in that nightclub eye up Anakin. We see Anakin himself talk to Qui Gon about the Jedi as being mythical legends (having been raised in the Outer Rim). We see Anakin tell Padme that he is a Jedi, he's better than this (after the Tusken interaction). And also Anakin's discussion with Padme on the transport ship about a Jedi's "compassion and encouragement to love." Then their fireplace and Arena scenes with the Across the Stars theme in the background. However this coupled with the Jedi are forbidden from attachment and that he would be expelled from the Jedi Order, as Obi Wan puts it, if he allows his personal feelings to get in the way of the job at hand on Geonosis.

    So do citizens find Jedi attractive? How do the Jedi respond to this? For instance, if Yoda walks into a bar, and the women start crowding around him. Or during the Clone Wars, and Jedi Master Shaak Ti, or Adia Gallia, or Aayla Secura are posted to a planet and interact with citizens who happen to flirt with them?

    Jedi family, intimacy with others, or relationships/rapport

    What about the Jedi relationships with each other? We know that Obi Wan and Anakin become brothers, and best friends. That Mace and Yoda are close friends (and Yoda is almost like a grandfather to all the Jedi).

    How does this play out when it comes to chemistry and attraction between Jedi? We are told that the Jedi mustn't be attached to people or possessions. We see in a way, Anakin refuse to leave Obi Wan behind in ROTS' opening. What about the relationship between Jedi Knights with each other if attraction were involved. Or a Master and Padawan? I remember reading here if a young Jedi Knight had become Padawan to Aayla Secura, how would he control his feelings! What would that interaction be like?

    Jedi possessions

    Do the Jedi actually own their star fighters, droids etc? Can the Jedi give each other gifts? What if Jedi become too "friendly," or flirty with each other?
     
  2. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    Any thoughts on this? I find it hilarious the idea of a young Padawan being apprenticed to Aayla Secura for instance!

    But the notion of Jedi friendships, or even Jedi interacting with "ordinary citizens" whilst on their regular missions/keeping the peace in the galaxy as fascinating.
     
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  3. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
  4. cubman987

    cubman987 Your Friendly Neighborhood CT/PT/Saga Moderator star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 7, 2014
    @DarthTalonx Please stop "bumping" the thread - if anyone wants to respond to this thread they will.
     
  5. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 12, 2014
    Roger roger. :emperor: I shall simply watch this thread's career with great interest.
     
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  6. Voss Fulris

    Voss Fulris Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Jun 30, 2018
    Interesting post, @DarthTalonx! I was waiting for someone far more qualified than me to reply and I haven't had a chance to do significant research, but in the meantime, my initial thoughts:

    A Jedi's role in the galaxy: How would they be perceived? I think this depends on the time-period we are considering, but given this is a PT thread I presume I should focus on that. My feeling is that the Jedi were neither seen as police, nor apathetic bystanders. The 'deathstick' incident felt more like an instance of seeing an opportunity to help the vendor 'rethink his life' rather than taking an enforcement approach that a 'Jedi police' would take. In this context, I would not expect an 'ordinary citizen' to fear the Jedi from a law and order perspective. Concerning standing by and failing to act, is there a specific incident you are referring to? In the PT era, to me the Jedi seemed far from passive, and arguably their involvement in the war played a crucial role in allowing Sidious to rise. Given their patronage by the Republic, and their role in the war, I expect the Jedi would be perceived as a military organisation by the citizens.

    Friendships with outsiders: So Jedi have friends? You've given a few examples of Jedi having friends and I see no reason why this would be an issue. The Jedi teach of the dangers of attachment, but also emphasise the value of compassion. I think friendships fall within this. The Jedi are mortal beings like any other, who happen to have a certain set of values and be Force sensitive. I expect they need and value friendship like any other. Regarding friends outside of the Order, I would expect this to be rarer during the PT era due to the militarisation of the Jedi.

    The perceptions of the Jedi: Perhaps in places where it is rare to meet a Jedi, they could be viewed either with a degree of scepticism or awe. Able to achieve feats not possible for non-Jedi, it would seem natural for rumours to be either exaggerated to make the Jedi into supernatural beings, or viewed as great exaggerations.

    Citizens flirting with Jedi, or vice versa: It would not surprise me for some citizens to flirt with Jedi, and you have given a few examples of this. Concerning if citizens find Jedi attractive, I think I would not agree with a blanket statement like this, but in principle do not object. To a non-Jedi, the Jedi may seem to wield power, and many may find power attractive. I'm not sure how a Jedi would respond to this, but I'm also not sure the non-attachment principles you raise would prevent a Jedi from reciprocating if they wanted to and it was appropriate.

    Jedi family, intimacy with others, or relationships/rapport: Relationships of this nature seem to be strongly discouraged from what we see in the PT. We see some of the damaging consequences of this in Anakin. Personally I do not interpret of the Jedi Code to forbid such relationships. However, I think that Jedi are mindful that the attachment and fear of loss that can come with such relationships can compromise their other values. In TCW we learn that Obi-wan has had a previous relationship of this nature, and would have left the Order for this relationship. This shows that Jedi can have relationships with non-Jedi without compromising Jedi values, but at the time this was not a widely held view within the Order and so would have required him to leave.

    Jedi possessions: I always assumed that a Jedi owns little more than their robes and lightsaber. However, this leaves the question of how the Order is funded. Clearly during the PT they receive significant support from the Republic, but it seems necessary for there to be other sources of funding too. Again, I'm not sure the Code prevents them from owning possessions, so long as they do not feel attachment to them, so potentially they could own other things too.

    These are just my initial thoughts on the issues you've raised, I'd be interested to look things up in a bit more detail and also hear thoughts of others who know more about this!
     
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  7. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 30, 2015
    Thanks for including me in your question. I have to admit that I have not watched TCW besides the odd episode or two. So I'm not that qualified on the topic. I will try to give an opinion and answer to your questions based on what I have seen - basically only the movies - and add some of my thoughts. The Jedi and their code are a complex subject, and to be honest I haven't given it all that much thought.
     
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  8. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 19, 2015
    I really do wonder how they fund the Jedi order with all their advanced systems, temples, ships, and technology (pre clone wars)?
     
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  9. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 11, 2018
    They operated as a branch of the Republic's Judicial Department and were granted funding to be able to act as its operatives.
     
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  10. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 19, 2015
    oh where did you hear that? because often they lead groups of Judicials on special assignments
     
  11. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 11, 2018
    I believe Jedi can be demonstrated to be not very different from any other form of sentient life in the Galaxy. Through the small lens we are given, we see that they can form friendships, are just as capable of romantic/sexual entanglements as the next person and certainly have their knick knacks and baubles like any other person accumulates in a lifetime.

    On the subject of attractiveness, I think it's safe to assume a Jedi who is appealing physically as a person is no more or less ensured to have success with whatever romantic partner they are inclined towards. There may be an additional level of 'mystique' at first, but with time, that would likely pass and the Jedi would have to succeed at relationships based on their merits as a partner like any other person.

    As previously stated, Jedi and their ability to form close relationships has been an object of contention for a lot of fans for a long time. The best example is probably Ki-Adi-Mundi. A venerated Jedi Master who was both a member of the High Council and a leading figure of the Clone War. At the same time, he was also a father. His planet suffered from extremely low birthrates and so, with the Council's blessing, he was allowed to engage in relation with a number of wives and had 15 kids! Aside from being a bit of a stud, Ki-Adi was also allowed sabbaticals to go back home and check on his children when events allowed. However, these wives and kids also had another understanding. Their dad did what he did to help his planet and people. And he certainly cared about them greatly to try and keep them in his life. But for Ki-Adi, it was always clear the Jedi Order and its mission was priority one in his life. Not an easy reality to come to grips with, but I like to think he was man enough to make that clear when forming such intense relationships. The major sticking point with being a Jedi Knight, was the agreement that if you wanted to stay in the Order and enjoy the privileges and responsibilities that came with it, then you were expected to commit 100%. Just like any other member. If you couldn't do that, it was up to you to tend your resignation and leave peacefully. And honestly, that's not asking too much. If you want to be a parent, just like in real life, it requires a changing of priorities. Whatever else once took primacy in your life, now family is #1. I think the Jedi understood that perfectly well and were cool with it. It also lines up with their philosophy when you think about it. Letting go might not necessarily be just about letting go of outside life to be a Jedi, but recognizing as well when it was time to leave the Jedi Order behind when you couldn't be what it required you to be. You could still embrace the Force and be a good person, just not in as perhaps direct a role as before. Even with a new, more lenient Order, I think the main discussion has to be that the Jedi Order is going to be a difficult taskmaster. It will NOT be an easy life. And finding a partner that can understand that is ALWAYS going to be difficult.
     
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  12. Justin Gensel

    Justin Gensel Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2018
    From Wookieepedia:

    "After the Ruusan Reformation the department was drastically reorganized and its responsibility were expanded. Notably, the Judicial Department was placed in charge of supervising the Jedi Order. "

    "It was after these events that the Galactic Republic was formed and ushered in a new era of democracy, peace, and prosperity under the Galactic Senate and its elected leader, the Supreme Chancellor. Due to the Galactic Republic's demilitarization, the Jedi Order fully embraced their responsibilities as peacekeepers and rejected their roles as soldiers. Assisted by the Republic Judicials, the Jedi were responsible for maintaining law and order, namely by mediating conflicts to bring about peaceful solutions between various rival factions and planets,[29] as well as serving as interplanetary law enforcement by pursuing wanted and dangerous criminals, pirates, and smugglers. "
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018 at 8:58 PM
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  13. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 10, 2017
    The Jedi were the actual minds behind Order 66.

    Discuss.
     
  14. Snafu55

    Snafu55 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 19, 2015
    Oh the Ruusan Reformation is legends now...
     
  15. Ash_Satine

    Ash_Satine Jedi Youngling

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    Dec 5, 2017
    Thanks for including me. I'll post something over the weekend. I need some time for that and can't answer during work.
     
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  16. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Hi, wow great answers! Let me have a quick read over your detailed analysis!

    The role of a Jedi/how they are perceived - Yes great points. I loved that scene with Obi Wan and the Deathsticks. You're going to go home and rethink your life. And Obi Wan's smile. I concur it's more a life assistance action than necessarily policing. It was quite nice to see and hopefully there are Jedi doing that more often. The only thing would be powers being used to influence events. I also got the impression that whilst you had Jedi of action (e.g. Windu), and wise Jedi like Yoda, Obi Wan, and even Jedi who believed they should be more active, or bending the rules (Qui Gon), you had too much of a passive attitude in the PT era. Almost like the Jedi had become as bureaucratic and leaning towards apathy as much as the corrupt Republic they served. In a way they assisted the rise of the Emperor, and he outplayed them yes. I would have also thought the Jedi are perceived more as enforcers, either feared, or thought of as mythical creatures given Watto's reaction, or Dex etc. There does seem to be a respect for them. Although even a fear (from TPM when the TF try to kill the two Jedi on the ship). I think that is a point, given their patronage by the Republic in terms of a Temple, ships, etc, the Jedi would be viewed of as part and parcel of the Republic, or even a military. Certainly by the time the Clone Wars commence. Even when deployed as peacekeepers or security in AOTC, they are considered as an elite perhaps?

    Friendship - I agree, we saw the Jedi get on well with others. Certainly amongst themselves. I do wonder about outside the order, for instance be they contacts who were less "official" and maybe smugglers etc. Or just in general. E.g. Would a Jedi Knight be turning up to their friend's birthday party? I feel like the Jedi were compassionate, but perhaps somewhat rigid when it came to some members of the Order. I do wonder about Jedi in politics, given the Council primarily dealt with interacting with the Republic. Thus there not being questions about the Chosen One suddenly being "taken under the wing" of the Chancellor in the first place?

    Perceptions - Yes I think depending on your point of view, the Jedi could be guardians of the peace, mythical creatures, or armed guards, not to be trifled with. However, we could see the perception of them being invincible being challenged by the time of AOTC, and indeed completely broken when eventually they are overwhelmed at Geonosis by superior numbers of battle droids. It would appear that the mind trick tactic is something known even in the Outer Rim though, and unique to a Jedi.

    Citizens flirting and vice versa - Yes this is interesting. Aside from Anakin marrying Padme in secret, I meant in general with adults finding Jedi attractive. How those Jedi would respond to flirtation. Be that from just general day to day life when on their duties, or even when undercover etc. For instance, Anakin isn't the only younger Jedi about. There are also several female Jedi Knights of various species such as Aayla Secura etc which would be interesting to see how that "generation" interacts with flirtation etc. I can imagine Obi Wan responding with a witty bit of banter and smile. I find the idea of Yoda searching for that assassin like Obi Wan and Anakin were, and all the ladies in the club surrounding Yoda and dancing around him hilarious though.

    Relationships - Yes it seems before the OT era, the Jedi are forbidden from attachment, and this means no putting others before the mission (AOTC). So is a relationship actually possible? It makes you wonder about casual interactions though. However it did make me wonder about a poor Padawan who is assigned to Shaak Ti, or Aayla Secura, and struggling to control possible attraction. Or just the relationships between Jedi of the same age. Haven't seen much on screen, but it would be interesting to see how other Jedi of Anakin's age deal with this.

    Funding/Possesions - Yes in a way that may in part lead to further resentment or questioning the Jedi Order. It appears that they are entirely funded by the Republic, and have immense privileges such as a large Temple, robes, star fighters, hyperspace rings, communications equipment (on a separate network entirely via a Beacon) etc.

    I look forward to it. I too am primarily focused on the movies. We do see a fair amount of background of other Jedi Knights of Anakin/Obi Wan's age such as Shaak Ti, Adia Gallia, Qui Gon, Aayla Secura, Cin Drallig, etc. One of the questions was the lucky/poor Padawan who was assigned as apprentice to Aayla Secura. Learn control you must, he was told by Yoda. Easy, he thought. Then he realised who he was apprenticed to!


    That's a really great point.
    Jedi Temple
    Jedi Robes
    Lightsabers (and locating and extracting Kyber crystals to power them)
    Jedi Starfighters
    Hyperspace rings
    Separate Jedi Communication network via an installed beacon
    Droids
    Upkeep of a vast library and maintenance of all of the above

    I think the Jedi Order is given patronage by the Republic that they serve? It is an interesting question. In a way are the Jedi truly independent, do they have a vested interest in whatever the Republic does, permit it? What of their allegiance to the Senate, to the Force etc.

    I see. So not an "off the books" Order, but a transparent one? The Jedi appear to have vast resources at their command.

    Great points! Yes I suppose the Jedi are indeed the same as other sentients, and the Jedi themselves are from various backgrounds, cultures and species. We do see them form rapport with each other. Often a traditional Master/Padawan bond, and even banter going on. We see a few outside the Order friendships such as Dex, Bail Organa etc. That Kaminoan also seemed to like Obi Wan a lot in AOTC. We see several club goers checking out Anakin during the same film. I do wonder about the romantic/sexual entanglements though. Both within the Jedi Order and outside of it (e.g. Padme).


    What about a Jedi Knight apprenticed to Aayla Secura for instance? Or if a Jedi Knight of her, or Anakin’s age, is interacting with highly flirtatious citizens whilst they are patrolling/on assignments in the galaxy? I wonder how they would respond, or how far such interactions/relationships could go with regards to the Jedi code.


    I suppose the Jedi would have a mystique about them, although they could even be undercover. I do think they would have to succeed on merit. Just wonder whether you’re going to see female or male Jedi Knights/Masters, having romantic “compassionate” engagements with other citizens, or even themselves. Is it a Jedi shall not love, or a Jedi shall not form an official relationship?


    Oh wow, I mean I was going by the films, and I had seen a few comics which had shown other Jedi of Anakin’s age, interacting whilst on various Clone Wars assignments. But I wasn’t aware of Ki Ad. You’ve just made me laugh with your stud comment lol. I thought it hilarious though that Aayla Secura could walk into a bar, and not have everyone nervous around her. Or even the thought of Master Yoda walking into the mall to repair his communicator, and every woman tourist immediately surrounding him for a selfie, or dancing with him in a club environment. Is that why Yoda looked somewhat tired in one scene?


    I think the issue would be the oath to the Jedi and not putting anyone or anything above the mission (e.g. AOTC in the gunship when Padme falls). In fact, Anakin acted contrary to that to focus on saving his Master and not leave him behind at the start of ROTS also. It would I suppose depend on the interpretation of attachment, and of compassionate relationship. Jedi stud, or otherwise.


    As Qui Gon said, yes it would not be an easy life. Indeed even a Jedi’s actions. Qui Gon could not “interfere,” and only observe, but bended the rules to free a young slave he believed to be the Chosen One, or of some importance. I wonder if other Jedi acted on personal thoughts, rather than a rigid Republic doctrine. Or on the edge of the Jedi norms.


    And in particular how other young Jedi of Anakin/Obi Wan’s age interacted with their own “Padme’s” or even their Master/Padawan dynamics. Flirtation, or control?

    Even politics wise, it did appear that the Jedi Order were legendary guardians of peace and justice. But some, be it Qui Gon, Windu, or Dooku, had certain political ideals and acted on them in different ways.

    And you young @Ash Satine, we shall watch your comments with great interest!

    In a way, had the Arrest/Removal/Execution of the (last) Chancellor of the Old Republic succeeded, the Jedi junta may well have led the Republic to a safe and secure society! With their command of the Grand Army to enforce the Jedi Council's will, the Jedi Order may have had their own Empire.

    Order 66 was an executive order, that Palpatine enacted and outplayed the Jedi with. For the Jedi it wouldn't be particularly useful, since it is an action plan to eliminate Jedi who are branded enemies of the Republic. However, other orders to remove the Chancellor would come into their favour. Unless this was all a complex plan by a certain Jedi to take over everything and start even the Jedi Order over. So are you saying that Obi Wan secretly requested the troopers be trained in this order, and then turn on the Chancellor later by Order 67? And Supreme Leader Yoda, and Obi Wan would rule the galaxy? That Windu, actually survived and becomes the leader of the Army under his new alias, as agreed in that shadowy Jedi Council meeting before the arrest took place? The plot thickens........

    As for the Jedi taking over, I suppose it was true.