Lit Thoughts on Legacy Vol. 1?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Force Smuggler, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I loved the original run of Legacy comics even though I haven't read every single issue. Jumping forward into the future of the Star Wars galaxy made the series really exciting for me. New Jedi, new Sith, new Skywalker, the Empire was different etc.
    I liked that we got to see the Yuuzhan Vong in the series.
    I wish we had a bit more of a time jump but still a good thing regardless.
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  2. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    People who talk about a radical difference in tone or anything like that are the same people who likely only read through some of the NJO. When you really examine Cade as a character and the slow, gradual changes he undergoes you end up having a far more traditional hero's journey than people realize. It's different, to be sure. It's more of a struggle to deal with his own nature, with the galactic happening's as a backdrop. It's a heavily expanded, effective version of Luke looking at his father and then looking at the glove on his hand in ROTJ.

    But outside of the fact that Ostrander and Duursema seems to really understand the universe they're working in, the writing also expands it. Adds and creates worthwhile additions. This is something that the books have manages in only limited percentile in the major series post NJO. Duursema and the other pencliers are able to make the world look so vibrant is all the more better. The project utterly devotes itself to creating a setting that is notable different but also recognizably Star Wars. And not just because people are waving about flash swords of light.

    It has problems. Having the Sith yet again be the bad guy in a post ROTJ setting (and so late on the timeline) is problematic even if there's a lot of work done to make them unique, Duursema has a nasty habit of making her own characters far too important (sneaking both K'Kruhk and Tr'a Saa onto the council is a bit much; having K'Kruhk be part of the Triumverate is also a problem), and because of mislaid plans there's plot threads left dangling that will probably never get resolved.

    But for a large comic run? The only thing that might top it is KOTOR.
    Last edited by AlyxDinas, Jul 6, 2013
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  3. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I loved the wide cast of characters in Legacy. There was somebody for everybody to follow, Jedi, Sith, Imperial, Rebels, Smugglers, Bounty Hunters, Crime Lords, pilots etc.
    I wish the series could have gone on. Have Wyrlock be the big bad guy for a while, Sazen, Wolf, Blue and Syn all get arcs etc.

    Maybe they should have jumped a thousand years into the future and have the Jedi and Sith co-existing and having to deal with a threat or have the Force and Skywalkers be a myth.
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    The series suffered from over-use of Cade, I'm not sure there was anyone here who, at the time, after reading Legacy 35, wasn't utterly exasperated with the character!

    The reason why this is a problem? It took space away from other character's stories to be told: Shado, Wolf, the Imperial Mission, Vao, Stasi, Nat Skywalker - I want far more stories of this lot. The stories where it returned to the fleet and the politics were frequently awesome but so few in number! :_|

    I could have done without Krayt's apocalyptic return too. Wyrrlokk was shaping up nicely as a big bad, while being distinct from Krayt.

    Should have been more ruthless towards the villains - both Nihl and Talon should be dead! Oh and Rav? Now there's a hanging thread demanding follow-up.

    Yet, despite these weaknesses and having the rug pulled out from underneath them by execs having a confidence crisis, it still managed to feel new and different. Along with KOTOR, it remains one of the exceedingly few works that I can see drawing on the full range of the films, instead of being just PT or OT.

    I'm now hoping Volume 2 can be every bit, if not more, successful. And this time DHC? Let it run! We'll all be buying the trades!
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  5. MasterGhandalf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2009
    star 2
    On the whole I consider myself a pretty big fan of Legacy, and I think it's certainly a more worthy follow up to the movies or to the NJO than anything that's been put out in the novels lately (I'd go so far as to consider it one of my person "core" SW stories, along with the OT, the Thrawn Trilogy, and the NJO; I might add Dawn of the Jedi to that as well if it lasts long enough, and KOTOR if I ever get around to finishing playing it). I like the very broad cast, which collectively gives a good sense for where the galaxy is at this point in time; I like the tying in of the Vong to both the backstory and the ongoing plotline; I like the use of multiple factions (Sith Imperial vs. Fel Imperial vs. GA Remnant vs. Jedi Remnant, and later Krayt's Sith vs. Wyyrlok's Sith) to create a different kind of story from what we had in the OT or NJO; I like how Krayt and Wyyrlok have underlying goals (create an ordered galaxy and impose his view of the Sith religion on everyone, respectively) that make them distinct from Palpatine while still being clearly Sith. In terms of things I don't like, while I think hating on Cade for being a jerk is a bit like hating on the title character of the Thomas Covenant series for being one (it's totally true in both cases, but is so essential to what the writers were doing thematically with the character that it's hard to imagine how it would work otherwise), he is pretty much treading water in his characterization for a while in the middle of the series, which is genuinely annoying, and the abrupt ending truncates certain plots (especially Krayt vs. Wyyrlok) that should have been longer. I also initially thought Krayt was merely serviceable as Big Bad and liked Wyyrlok better, though reborn Krayt is genuinely disturbing.

    On the whole, though, I really did enjoy this series, and hope that once Legacy Vol. II hits its stride, it proves to be as good!
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  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I downloaded and read the first Legacy comic and I think I got spoiled for the end of the NJO so I'm holding off for awhile in reading any more, but I will say this: I never was a fan of the "Chosen One" prophecy and it makes perfect sense to me that the Sith would return. It also makes sense that they would take advantage of the anger present in societies destroyed by war in order to bring people to their side. And Cade, as I see him so far, has a lot in common with his impulsive anger-prone "I'm taking him NOW!" ancestor.
  7. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    That was probably around the point when they were told the series was getting canned at issue 50, and they had to scramble to jump ahead to an ending.
  8. Darth Droid Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 2013
    star 1
    Legacy was awesome until the final twelve issues or so, when the story becomes incredible rushed and numerous plotlines (the mandos, Rav, factions of the Sith, Yuuzhan Vong ect.) are left hanging. Yes it was not the writers fault but the fact remains that the ending is extremely rushed, especielly when compared to the series generaly slow plot progression.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Oh, I agree about the likely causes but still such a shame.

    But now we have Volume 2 which can hopefully fix that! [face_party]
  10. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 3
    Started off strong but lost focus, it should have either been about Cade or the Galaxy vs the Sith, doing both weakened the series due the difference in scope. And Cade really had no business being the center of attention after Krayt died. I also feel more Princess Fel and maybe keeping Krayt dead. On Krayt, the reveal was really lame, I only started reading star wars comics with this series so I only knew who Krayt was through some second hand sources (ie wookiepedia) and I was left who the hell this guy was (much like Cade) I felt it either 1. Use a different character or 2. set it up. Really came out of left field. Then he dies, but then he comes back with a major army in the last leg of the story, he then acts more like the guy he just killed then his old self. Krayt was a threat to Cade because he was after him personally, but his replacement was a threat to the entire galaxy, Krayt comes back and threatens the entire galaxy, so why (from a story telling point of view) was the change needed? Either have Krayt change or have him stay dead doing both feels, excessive to me.

    In short good start but an underwhelming ending for a few ideas and the series as a whole.

    Edit: still better then most other eu out there.
    Last edited by AusStig, Jul 7, 2013
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  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I really like how there was no real effort put into keeping Krayt's identity all that big a shock, because it was used as distraction for an actual surprise with Calixte being Corde and Cade's mother. Everyone had been so focused on Krayt they never saw it coming.
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  12. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    The series still is for me at the pinnacle of the best of the EU. I loved the first Legacy series and still do, but with hindsight being 20/20, I would of probbaly rather seen the following tweaks:
    • More concrete character development for Cade. Having now re-read the entire series 2-3 times, it is apparent that his storyline dragged on for too long without any major growth. This probably detracted from spending time on other secondary or B plot stuff.
    • More use of Marasiah Fel. She really was positioned to be a bigger player, but I think ultimately folks liked Roan Fel & the Imperial Knights more, so her story got pushed to the side.
    • More Stazi and the GA Remnant. While some fans didn't care for Stazi & the GA, the majority loved them and the issues that they appeared in tended to generate a ton more discussion. Granted, the GA plotline benefited from multiple awesome fleet battles, but I think one less arc about Cade would of made room for another GA story. My dream story? Stazi facing off with former GA admiral Piers Petan, who surrendered the GADF at Caamas. How cool would it of been to see an Imperial admiral Petan, commanding a fleet defending some Imperial installation, facing off against Stazi?
    • No Vector. I get that this was a Dark Horse decision to tie various series together, but in the end I feel the whole concept ended up using precious space that could of overwise been used for any number of side stories.
    I am torn on the return of Krayt. On one hand, I loved the whole "mad king" return and his decision to go crazy on the galaxy. On the other hand, Darth Wyyrlok was so awesomely wicked that I do think he could have been the main villian for the remainder of the series.

    Oh, I almost forgot. I would of totally had a Battle of Bastion. From Legacy #0 forward we were alwasy told how it was the most fortified planet in the galaxy. And Krayt always said he wanted to take it. I always envisioned some sort of epic Helm's Deep style battle occuring there.

    --Adm. Nick
  13. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    It's about the best SW EU ever made, IMO. The ending is rushed, unfortunately, it needed another few issues to cap it right. But overall, it's a towering work of comic book fantasy & SW fiction.

    V2 is excellent!
    Last edited by The-Eternal-Hero, Jul 7, 2013
  14. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    While I liked the GA aspects of Vol 1 a lot, I think that given how many factions were featured at various points (Cade's core group, the rest of the fringe, the Jedi, the Fel empire, the Sith, the non-Sith Krayt Imperials, and the GA), the GA got its fair share of page time, especially as the series progressed. It's both the benefit and drawback of having a single series function as the showcase of an entire era. I think the GA got a much better showing in Legacy than, say, the Republic did in KOTOR.

    I also was expecting Petain to have a larger role, and I'd bet anything that his absence was due to the series being cut down.

    Vector wasn't a great storyline in any of the comics it was involved in, but I do think that of the four, Legacy integrated it the best into its own ongoing story.
  15. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I have only red the first volume of the Legacy series (even if I have been spoiled about loots of the coming events) and I like what I read: it is seams to be a classic hero's journey (in this case Cades journey from anti-villain to hero or at least the better kind of anti-hero) combated with the story of overthrowing the evil ruler in a universe with clearly pointed out good guys (the jedi) and bad guys (the sith) and interesting grey areas (the Empire, The Imperial Knights, Cade and his crow, etc.).

    Good guys: I really like in that Legacy the Jedi are clearly the good guys and at least one of them, Shado Vao, has a good sense of humour. It is also a plus that the ones we see have different looks and are from different species.

    Bad guys: To me Darth Krayt has an good design that makes him stand out from the other sith, the imperials and the jedi, but I don't remember him having any personality that made him stand out from other "dark lords". I think part of my problem is that I was spoiled about his identity so he loses some of the mystery about him with that knowledge. I would probably have loved the scene with the sith ghosts if it was not for my foreknowledge. When it comes to his underlings I find Darth Nihl and Darth Talon good direct threats to our protagonist with design and personality that make them stand out from each other and the other sith. Personally I like Darth Maladi and Nihl's design beast of the sith.
    Something I am a bit disappointed on are the other members of One Sith we see, they are mostly nothing but mooks. They are nameless, has an uniformly look, lack of personality and just exist to be a hinder to our heroes. Their role could just as easily been filled by the Legacy version of IG-100 droides, I dread to find out that they carry the Darth title.

    And everybody else: I like Cade and look forward to se his hero's journey and Deliah Blue and Jariah Syn are good sidekicks with interesting personalities. The Imperial Knights are an interesting new faction with a good looking design but I hope that it will be shown that they lack some knowledge that the jedi has and/or there is a price to their militant lifestyle. The Empire is, well, the Empire, big, corrupt and with a the-end-justify-the-means and might-makes-right philosophy, in many other settings they would be the bad guys but here it is a split between the people loyal to the emperor Fel (who seams to be the better kind of dictator, at least for now) and emperor Krayt (who we know is evil) so I put them in the grey area.

    My only real complains (outside of the above mentioned) is that the fight scenes are a bit hard to follow and that I became a bit depressed every time I remember that for this cool setting to exist all the hard work the heroes of the Alliance and the New Republic has done comes mostly undone, just a bit more than a century after they overthrow Palpatine and his Empire.
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  16. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Still call it the most daring work since the NJO, and one of the most successful at taking the galaxy as it is, and completely turning it on its head, so that while it's still the same galaxy, I think it can be definitely said to be Ostrander's universe. My only real complaint has always been that it wasn't set further away in the future of the EU, to give it less connection to the current works and to not limit either in what they're able to do. I think there was a little something for everybody in it, and enjoyed the fact that the galaxy was so divided.

    You had the Sith doing their usual thing, though i'l admit the Sith are extremely overused as villains. Fel's Empire attempting to recover from it's takeover. The Moffs, the Imperial Knights, the GA Remnant, the Jedi, and finally Cade and his crew. Each group produced characters that I liked and characters that I didn't like, and I was able to understand the motivations of them all. For the work that he was starring in, Darth Krayt was a powerful villain, with both traits I admired and traits I despised. I was then always able to say the same thing about Cade Skywalker, the hero of the story. I'll admit, there were times I was sick of him, called him pathetic, and didn't think he lived up to the Skywalker name, but then as the story progressed and he slowly grew into his destiny, I found myself coming to like him. I saw that though he's not a Luke Skywalker or Anakin Solo type character, that he's really not even what you'd call a hero, that that wasn't the type of character he was designed to be, and once I stopped expecting that from him it became easy to appreciate him and his journey as it is.

    I think there's a certain amount of...reluctance to make books and comics too different from the original source material, so I praise Ostrander for finding a good middle ground. He used some of what already existed to shape his work, but didn't hesitate to pick his own brain and think outside the box as to just what exactly could happen to the galaxy in a century, though I again do wish the time gap had been larger. Considering just how many different groups there were that had to be introduced, explained and then later expanded upon, I think a good job was done giving some focus to each. Really if there's another complaint that I have, it''s that I feel there were some unnecessary characters brought in as the story progressed. Them being Tra, K'kruhk, Celeste Morne, and perhaps even Darth Krayt turning out to be A'Sharad Hett. (Though i'm extremely greatful he didn't turn out to be Jacen Solo.)
    Last edited by DarthJenari, Jul 8, 2013
  17. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Legacy did come out before Jacen became Sith, The Lost Tribe of the Sith, The TOR Sith, the Knight Errant Sith etc, so I can forgive Sith being there.
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  18. MasterGhandalf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2009
    star 2
    Largely agreed; Legacy and LOTF were some of the first stories in the current era of the EU to pull the "Sith card", and at the time it was still fairly new and exciting. Needless to say, I like Legacy's execution of that concept better than LOTF, but I don't see a problem with them for merely using the Sith, as opposed to later works such as the ones Force Smuggler mentioned which seemed to use the Sith as the go-to bad guys behind everything. I'll admit I'm a bit disappointed in Legacy Vol. II for pulling out a new Sith as the villain, but I'm holding out hope that someone else, preferably someone non-Sith, is going to be the ultimate Big Bad.
  19. Drone Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    I've only just started reading Legacy for the first time and am around issue #17 or so. So far, for me, this is the best EU I've been exposed to since Kotor 2. It seems that the farther away we get from the original trilogy in terms of timeline, the better (there are certainly exceptions to this rule, but who'da thunk that getting away from the restrictive setting of the OT and letter authors exercise their own creative muscle was a good thing? :p )

    The biggest problem I have with Legacy so far isn't so much a problem specific to Legacy though: the Sith. Krayt has some complexity, sure, but in the end his motivations are no different from any other Sith emperor we've seen in the history of ever: achieving immortality. I can deal with him though, he's not that bad of a character. But his lackeys? There's only so much of the color red and needless spikes everywhere that I can take. Where along the line did we decide that for a character to be portrayed as evil, they had to have their entire body tattooed in black and red and wear ridiculous, totally non-functional spikey armor? What happened to the relatively austere style of the Emperor from the OT, who was made evil not by a ridiculous costume, but by his mannerisms and simple black cloak? Are the readers that dumb that they need it spelled out for us? There's something to be said for dramatic exaggeration, when it works well. IMO it doesn't work well there.

    Everything else about Legacy is wonderful though. I'm jumping into it straight from NJO (which I never finished, but I've already had it spoiled to hell and back anyway), skipping everything in the interim since I loathe Jacen Solo. I'm finding a lot of stuff to like in this series - Roan Fel is pretty cool, the Imperial Knights are awesome, we actually have a main character whose flaws reflect -real life- character flaws (drug addiction, abandonment issues), and aside from a few callbacks to previous EU works, there's very little tying this series to anything that came before it besides Yuuzhan Vong and the name "Skywalker."
    Last edited by Drone, Jul 8, 2013
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  20. MasterGhandalf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2009
    star 2
    Several of Krayt's lackeys are going to get greater development as the series goes on- Wyyrlok most obviously (he's probably my favorite One Sith, and I don't think I'm alone on that one), but Maladi and Nihl to a lesser extent as well. I never really though Talon felt like much more than "hot female Maul", unfortunately.
  21. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I love the Sith as much as the next person but would it kill the creative team to come up with a different threat? The Vong for example. Perfect escape from the Warlord of the Week and the Empire. We need a new threat.
    If the Legacy Sith were the first Sith since Lumiya/Clone Emperor back in early years after ROTJ I would be fine. I'd take Jacen by himself if I had too but with the addition of the Lost Tribe and the One Sith during the book era? Good grief. Please no more Sith! I expect Sith in the Old Republic era but give us something new. The Galaxy is bigger than the Jedi and Sith. Prove it!
  22. Drone Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003

    While I tend to agree, that line of thinking unfortunately gave us the Dark Nest Trilogy.

    Yuuzhan Vong were a great change of pace, but any attempt to replicate them is just going to be seen as cheap. "Yuuzhan Vong already did it." The problem with introducing new villains into Star Wars is that villains in this galaxy have pretty much tried -everything-. It's hard to come up with an antagonist that can top a maniacal Sith emperor that wants to kill all living things in the galaxy so he can ascend to godhood, or an extragalactic enemy that wants to kill/enslave everyone who isn't them.
  23. MasterGhandalf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2009
    star 2
    Again, I hear you, Force Smuggler. One reason I really enjoyed the Vong was because they provided a different kind of big threat that was distinct from the traditional Empire or Sith. Unfortunately, the entire Star Wars franchise seems to have been increasingly caught in a rut with its large-scale stories that the Sith are behind everything, and that the whole thing is Jedi against Sith over, and over, and over again. Seriously, looking at the last few years alone: LOTF has Lumiya, and then Caedus, as the Big Bads, Legacy comics have Krayt, then Wyyrlok, then Krayt again as Big Bad, KOTOR comics didn't really have a Sith per se, but the main villains were Haazen (who used Sith powers and some Sith ideology) and the Crucible (originally created by the Sith), FOTJ has the Lost Tribe as major villains and ultimately as minions of the Big Bad (and they even got their own novella series and comic miniseries), the Darth Bane novels were obviously Sith-centric, Old Republic MMO is Republic vs. Sith Empire, Knight Errant comics have more Sith than you can shake a lightsaber at, now Legacy Vol II has at least one Sith as the main villain so far, and of course anything set around the timeline of the PT and OT has Palpatine, Dooku, and/or Vader as the ultimate villain kind of by default. Now, I don't think that all of these are bad stories, by any means, but it's getting a bit much (has been getting there for the last several years, really) and honestly it cheapens the integrity of the Sith Order as the ultimate evil of the GFFA.

    Now, I know the NJO pretty much has the invasion niche (and probably the "evil alien" niche) cornered, but I'd still like to see something different, and I desperately hope the Sequel Trilogy goes in a new direction.
    Last edited by MasterGhandalf, Jul 8, 2013
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  24. Drone Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    This is one of the (many) reasons why I love Kotor 2. Star Wars itself has always been about absolute good vs. absolute evil. Kotor 2 took that idea and spun it on its head, and gave us a much more mature view of the galaxy. Unfortunately, nothing else has really picked up on that shades of grey thread.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I don't want an antagonist that wants to destroy the entire universe. We need small scale threats. Have the Legacy comics be the first major villains since the NJO. I hate the Killiks because of the whole Hive-Mind thing but a threat from the Unknown Regions being the first threat was a good idea. Keep the Killiks and the Chiss in the UR though.
    The Sith after ROTJ need to be special. Make them unique and don't over saturate the era. For the Old Republic era have one thing at a time. 3 different Sith Wars is too much.
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