Lit Thoughts on Legacy Vol. 1?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Force Smuggler, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I think we have different starting point, my mind is still in the Bantam era of the EU (or earlier in some cases), and to my understanding the future looked a bit brighter in that time. I also don't know any of the history "just" before Legacy, so that's probably why the Legacy setting is a bit depressing to me.
  2. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Personally I would have liked if the Legacy creators had used the Massassi from the Golden Age of the Sith as inspiration or a combination of the Massassi and Maul
    darklordoftech likes this.
  3. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
  4. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Maybe, but if you've read TTT you have enough to see where this starts from and chart a reasonably logical progression from there.

    TTT posits that the Empire, in order to have the bulk of the galaxy accept it for 2 decades, much have had some very strong declared ideals that remained despite the corruption and depravity. It then sketches out what such an empire might look like in its infancy with Thrawn and Pellaeon. Post-TTT, Pellaeon is the one who reforms the Empire but also recognises, a decade later, that it no longer has the military power to continue the war with the New Republic.

    What Legacy asks is whether the New Republic should have decided against shown mercy to the Empire, had it not done so, its successor, the Galactic Alliance, would not have been betrayed. Yet how do you really kill an ideal? If the NR had obliterated the Remnant would that instead have simply granted martyrdom status?

    In short, IF you assume the Empire in Legacy = the Empire from the films redux, then that would be a most erroneous assumption!

    The other thing is, from the Bantam era, Legacy is over a century away! Fans have been awfully cavalier and dismissive of 100 years!
  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I understand what you are saying, it is just that I had preferred if the Republic had still been the uniting force in the Galaxy without having compromised their principles, the Imperial Remnant more or less absorbed into it and with senators from the Nagai and other former enemy people among its representative.

    Men, men, men, you can not have everything you want[face_sigh]
  6. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    I'm not seeing how this would be better?

    Amongst other reforms, one of the major ones Pellaeon brought in was that planets could leave the Empire if they wished to. In effect, over the course of 15 years the Empire moves from an evil totalitarian government to a more benign, though probably non-democratic, authoritarian form that acts as a practical rival to the then-NR's chaotic democracy.

    I'm not seeing where not conquering the Remnant equals compromising their principles, as the Rebellion's aim was to restore the Republic, not primarily destroy the Empire. Plus that there is a substantial number of Imperial citizens happy with the Imperial system does grant it a measure of political legitimacy too.
    Drone likes this.
  7. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I did not mean that the Republic should have conquered the Imperial Remnant but that its member should have joined the Republic of free will
  8. Drone Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    That's part of the point -- after Pellaeon, the Empire transformed a bit into something less resembling a terrible spacefascist dictatorship and something more resembling pre-WW1 Imperial Germany. There were some trappings of democracy, sure, but all in all the state was still ruled by a hereditary aristocratic elite and the military. This doesn't make the state inherently evil or bad, just different. Same goes, largely, for the Fel Empire of Legacy.

    The point is the Imperials we see in Legacy -- at least those still loyal to Roan Fel -- LIKE being Imperials. Maybe those living in the Imperial Remnant/Fel Empire didn't want to join the Republic/Alliance because of problems that have plagued galactic democracy since at least the prequel era: corruption, endless bureaucracy, and topheavy government. Even in the Bantam era the Republic was never portrayed as a particularly effective political body -- authors of that time period even took extra steps to highlight the (very large) flaws in the New Republic by forcing the reader to be confronted with the downsides of democracy (characters like Borsk Fey'lya).
    Last edited by Drone, Jul 9, 2013
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Well, the answer there is a considerable portion of it did! So much so, as of the Hand of Thrawn story, 15 years after Jedi, the Empire is a mere 8 sectors! Don't assume that the Remnant is every Imperial world there ever was, many did join the NR. Not least due to them not being absolute about holding grudges!
  10. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    fixed
    I agree that the Sith-Imperial War should have been the first galaxy-wide conflict since the Vong War, because the way they did makes me respond to the post-NJO, pre-Legacy (comics) EU with, "Who cares? It's Krayt who'll end up taking over the galaxy. Not the Killiks. Not Jacen. Not the Lost Tribe. Not Abeloth. Not the Columi brothers."
  11. MasterGhandalf Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2009
    star 2
    Stories with a foregone conclusion can work well if handled right- the Revenge of the Sith novelization is one of the finest pieces of Star Wars literature out there, and you know exactly how that one ends before even opening it if you have the slightest familiarity with the OT- but I don't think any of the big post NJO pre Legacy stories have been anywhere near that level of quality.
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I've seen it pointed out a few times that Senators aren't always elected- in either the Old or New Republics.

    It would be interesting if, despite the authoritarian leanings of the Moff Council, some Moffs are elected.
    darklordoftech likes this.
  13. son_of_skywalker03 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2003
    star 4
    Loved every minute of it. Just wish it had been given more issues to reach the ending it deserved, instead of rushing it.
  14. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Yes. A thousand times YES.
  15. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Heh, yeah. Cade was... well, basically someone I tolerated. The setting itself was the big draw for me.
  16. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    When there's a forgone conclusion, the story can't depend on suspense to be interesting. The forgone conclusion isn't an issue with the PT because the PT doesn't depend on suspense to be interesting. Instead, the PT explains and enhances the OT.
  17. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 4

    You say that but the bad guys in KOTOR2 want to kill ALL LIFE, I am sorry but how is that NOT evil?

    I am for complex characters, I do enjoy the Imperial agent story in TOR most of all, I also like Act 1 of the Jedi Knight because I feel sorry for the villain, I didn't get that in KOTOR2, I didn't know enugh about the bad guys to feel sorry for them and Keria was too annoying to keep my sympathy for long.

    Legacy had villains I could understand, though the hands could have been more developed.
  18. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    I felt for Sion and Traya much more than I did Krayt, for sure. In fact, most of my sympathies for the villains in Legacy less out of emotional plight (ala Sion's begrudging, bizarre unrequited love of the exile) and more out of pity. I pity Veed. I pity Wyyrlok. But I don't feel for Nihl, for instance. And that's okay. I don't need to. I have no empathy for Palpatine, for instance, because he has nothing admirable in a moral sense and nothing emotionally compelling because he's a being of self gratification.

    The One Sith have some depth, to be sure. But they were devalued as soon as Jacen fell and the Lost Tribe came into being (even with JJM's amazing series). This is also because few of them have a lot of depth Stryfe, Rauder, Azard. They lack a lot of depth. Not necessarily a bad thing but I find that TOR even gives us a Sith group with more diversity at times.

    Just rambling though. This isn't anything other than rambling. Side note: I actually like Cade.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  19. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Am I the only one who thinks the "Darth" title has lost its prestige in the EU?
  20. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    We know the people who are truly deserving of it so it's really no skin of my back personally. If anything, seeing things like the One Sith or Kaan's Brotherhood (even though no one used the title until Bane was like "Sup, fools"!)...makes me appreciate the title more. I get to see what it means to have someone who hasn't earned the title have it. It makes comparing them to the people who have earned it or have a direct line of succession all the more impressive.
  21. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    Maybe Darth is derived from the sith world for dark lord? Just as Kejsare, Kaiser and Tsar it is directly derived from the Roman Emperors' title of Caesar.
  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Neither Traya nor Sion wanted to destroy all life. She wanted Nihilus killed, remember? Her goals were more along "deafen everybody to the force".
  23. Drone Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Yeah, the "kill all life" thing was referring to the Sith Emperor from SWTOR. I wasn't speaking about Kotor 2 specifically in that post, rather I was talking about how it's difficult for any author of Star Wars to come up with a villain that is any larger-than-life than "kill everything in the galaxy so I can ascend to godhood." Thus I tend to agree that Star Wars needs to focus less on whatever this week's massive threat to the galaxy is and concentrate more on smaller conflict.
    darklordoftech and Darth_Pevra like this.
  24. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    Funny enough they seem to vote each other into office, at least in Pellaeons Remnant.
  25. AusStig Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2010
    star 4
    It would kill everyone, all life is touched by the force, to get ride of it you have to kill everyone, or like %99 of the population assuming the exile is not a total one off.

    Also what did Sion want? I think he just wanted mumie (keria) to love him, or something. I didn't know enough about him to fear him, Nihilus worked as some vague evil threat cause I got his assistant first planet after Telos, so I got to know him (a bit), but I never really had all that much to go on for Sion. Sure he looked kind of cool, and he did a little bit on the asteroid, but after that he didn't do much