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FF:WA Thoughts on ROTS (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by soneil, May 19, 2005.

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  1. soneil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Here we go. Discuss the film as much as you want. I seem to remember last time someone starting a spoiler thread and a spoiler free thread just so the late viewers could traverse the forum in safety. Thought it might be a good idea to do so again.

    A few thoughts to get the ball rolling. I'll have plenty more to add later but I'll give some others a chance to jump in.

    ROTS basically showed me all the lead-ins to the original trilogy that I hoped to see. Only thing I can think of that I expected to see and didn't was Mon Mothma's involvement in the start of the rebellion. Might be in a deleted scene for the DVD though since while Susie was researching for costumes she came across a picture of an actor who was supposedly going to portray Mon Mothma in ROTS.
    At the end of Anakin & Obiwan's fight, did anyone see what happened to Anakin's saber? Did Obi-wan pick it up? I didn't notice at the time but later it occured to me that he must have got it somehow to be able to pass it on to Luke all those years later.
  2. Master_Kaustin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah Mon was spose to be in it, but i think her scenes were cut!

    Yeah soneil i loved it..

    Obi did pick up anakins lightsaber... I love the duel! ... the only thing i didnt like was all the extremely close shots... but i cant really pick up anything else at all, im going to see it on the weekend again so ill post prolly then..! too much to take in!

    Soneil you wouldnt happen to have gotten that picture off your camera yet?> :) the one i tooK!
  3. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    Okay, the filmed rocked...rocked hard!

    But for Vader's "NOOOOOOOOOO!" at the end...****ing pathetic...sorry, but who agrees? It was lame.

    But other than that, despite how much was cut from the film, it was bloody awsome.

    The argument between Ani and Obi before the went at it was priceless :)
  4. Master_Kaustin Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah SOE i must say the whole dialog with Obi and anakin in the whole scene was awesome! i got tears at one stage.. but I couldnt ask for more!

    Most people came back to my place after we got food and discussed it for 2hours! haha

    The Vader .. NoooO! Few people here said it, i didnt mind it to much.. but would have been better if he just fell to his knees!

    Come to think of it more with the wookie battle would have been great! it was too quick :(
  5. RaMarQabLe Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2005
    i can't beleive how gangsta they made r2-d2.... he was really good... but somethign to consider is that the humour used with R2 at times was the same as jar jar...

    speaking of jar ajr he only had two lines :p

    i was a lil disspointed the immortality thing with qui gon wasn't discussed too much.

    I guess qui gon can't do teh force ghost, but can speak to the living... i guess yoda was doing it in atoc.

    i wish there was a better goodbye between yoda and obi wan.

    it was soo sad to see MACE go!!!! i really hated anakin at that point....

    over the movie gets 5 stars...
  6. soneil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Unloaded the photos. I'll post them up later today. I got some good ones.
  7. Pr1zm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2004
    star 1
    Well, the last hour was a lot of fun, but for me it only rates a bit higher than Ep. I and II.

    Some thoughts:

    - The first hour of dialogue was absolutely shocking. Especially during that first ship battle.

    - The sound effects seemed a bit weak? They seemed rather minimal compared to what was happening on the screen. Example: You'd expect to hear legs of a ship hitting the floor as the ship lands, but you'd hear barely anything. Or a ship explodes but it doesn't seem loud or powerful enough - half the time the lasers were louder than ship explosions.

    - The use of surround sound was rather limited. I expected to hear more from the sides, behind, etc.

    (I'm a sound editor, so I probably nitpick at the sound more than the average person)

    - Seeing Yoda vs Uncle Palpy was good - but kinda disappointing since you know he can't do any damage to Palps :( Woulda been good to see Yoda kill some more stuff :)

    - It was kinda weird to see Obi-Wan walk away from a burning Anakin. That doesn't seem very Jedi-like. It's like they're introducing some new doctrine, like it was Anakin's fate to die, so don't change it.

    - The other weird thing was Padme "losing the will to live", presumably because Anakin had become evil. But then her last words were "There's still good in him". If she believed that, then why not have the will to live and see if she can bring him back??

    - The whole Wookiee thing was more fanservice than anything else. But I can't say it hurt the film at all.

    - R2D2 popping out of his ship and landing of the floor was good :) Yoda jumping on Chewie's shoulder was also amusing.

    - I agree that some of R2's humour was JarJar style, unfortunately. Like the cowering in the corner part when Obi-Wan was trying to contact him.

    - I'm glad they didn't end with some celebration. The ending was pretty good. Though I wanted to see more Vader action in his suit. Hey, choke a few people or something, I don't care :)

    Prizm
  8. Sith Magician Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Though I wanted to see more Vader action in his suit. Hey, choke a few people or something, I don't care

    I think that's covered in one of the sequels, early spy reports indicate it's called Empire Strikes Back ;)
  9. soneil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    I think DS almost strangled me when I commented on them leaving it open for a sequel. ;)
    I dind't really think the R2 humour was Jarjarish. When he was hiding because of the comlink I thought that was classic. Made me think of ANH when Luke was using the comlink and I often wondered what would have happened if the stormies had heard it.
    When Yoda left Kashyyyk, did anyone else think it may have been a bit of a nod to ET? Similar ship, similar angles during its ascent. I even thgought the music in that part sounded similar. I liked that. I reckon that was a deliberate nod to Spielberg.
  10. Aztek Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2001
    star 4

    The use of surround sound was rather limited. I expected to hear more from the sides, behind, etc.

    I've seen it twice now, once in the digital theatre at fox and then again today in a normal cinema and I thought the sound was great each time.
  11. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    When Yoda left Kashyyyk, did anyone else think it may have been a bit of a nod to ET? Similar ship, similar angles during its ascent. I even thgought the music in that part sounded similar. I liked that. I reckon that was a deliberate nod to Spielberg.

    When watching it my mate turned to me and said:
    "now what does that remind you of?"

    Yeah we both reckon it was a nod to Steve.
  12. Princess_Lego Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 1
    The movie managed to just cover the main plot points but I found it to be way too rushed. Hopefully there are lots of deleted scenes to build the characters a bit more. And reading the book would probably help.

    The performances were unconvincing, especially Palpatine. In his case it was just bad acting, but in Anakin's case I just don't think he had enough time to pull off the change from good to evil. Padme was good. Yoda had the most convincing acting in the whole movie, my praise to Frank Oz and the animators. The music, which usually is the main indication of the emotional intent of a scene, seemed to be strangely lacking. The whole movie just lacked the depth of emotion that made AOTC so great.

    Anakin's reason for turning was great though, now we can really see how the whole "Anakin is a good kid who wants to save everyone" motif from the first films fits in with his fall to the dark side. Plus why Padme and Luke believe there is good in him. They saw somehow that he was an unwilling pawn of the Emperor who sold himself into slavery to save the one he loved, only to find, too late, that he had caused the death he was trying to prevent and was now a slave to evil. I like how Palpatine lets him believe he choked Padme to death rather than that she died of a broken heart. Then he can blame himself and fall deeper into the dark side rather than blame Palpatine for misleading him and seek revenge.

    I loved the whole beginning rescue sequence, though I agree R2 was a little too overdone. Plus I really think the bigger battle droids should have had slightly more ominous voices than their skinnier counterparts, that was just weird. I liked General Grievious with his 4 lightsabers, very cool. And Yoda, what a dude. Kashyyk was boring, those trees were nothing like what I imagined.

    C3PO has spent the last 2 movies delivering boring one-liners, some of them very out of character and only occasionally funny. I preferred the inherent comedy value he had when he was just the prissy butler type in the old movies. Maybe he stops trying to be a comedian when he gets him memory wiped.

    Was there a huge time jump at the end, to the building of the Death Star, 'cause they had a ship full of imperial officers all of a sudden, but it was intercut with the funeral. Surely they weren't building that thing for 20 years. The second Death Star was bigger and only took a couple of years.

    I think the "images and feelings" Leia has about her mother must have been planted there by her new parents, who seemed to know Padme quite well and probably talked to her about her mother, they may have even had pictures. Unlike Luke who was with the Lars, who barely met Padme and probably never said anything about her. That's my theory to try and explain this apparent inconsistency between movies. Feel free to use it if you need to :)

    I noticed that Obi Wan and Yoda don't assume at this point that they are all that's left of the Jedi 'cause they warn others away from the temple. This leaves a convenient gap for all those EU authors who might like to get Darth Vader hunting all over the galaxy for left over Jedi, which is more how I imagined it. That sudden purge of all the Jedi in one day by mostly clone troopers was a big suprise to me. Vader seems to only get the kids.

    It was definitely my least favourite movie out of the whole series. I think I really need to see it again, more relaxed and undistracted by hours in line wearing a conspicuous costume.
  13. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    Wow, havnt seen you here in a while Lego.

    Also, I agree 100% with all that you've said.
  14. Princess_Lego Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 1
    Thank goodness for that, thanks SOE.

    Oh and I agree with you about Vader's NOOOOO!
    A little pathetic sounding, but it does show his human side and let you feel his dispair, just a bit weird hearing it coming from THAT suit.
  15. Sith Magician Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    In so many reactions from people all over, I'm reading things such as:

    "..not how I imagined..."

    "...pictured it differently..."

    "...I thought....would have...."

    Not picking on anyone here, but I'm noticing more and more with films that people have made up their minds before they even go in what it should be like.

    Just one example, that people wanted to see suited Vader kill the Jedi. Think about this for a moment, and think "drama" and "pacing".

    It's been built up for 28 years about a duel between Vader and Obi Wan, some of us who read the novel back in '78 read the bit at the end describing Vader's life support suit as being necesary from damage he suffered from falling into a volcano dueling Obi Wan.

    After ESB, we realised this was actually a duel between Anakin and Obi Wan, again, that moment was even more epic, and we've always known that it was going to be one hell of a battle.

    What I'm saying is, that duel had to be the final confrontation, I know that I for one didn't want to see that in the first hour, then have Vader stalking about killing people I've never heard of and don't care about, it had to be climactic.

    And before anyone tells me he could have gone after EU characters, please remem,ber the majority of people who see tehse films couldn't give a flying **** at a rolling donut for EU, me included (Some would say especially).

    So, for me at the least, the way it wound up was fine.

    I guess as a scriptwriter/cinematographer/director, I'm reading ahead from what people are saying they wanted to see in this film, and I see a poorly paced film with no conclusive climax ;)

    But to answer the question on the Death Star and officers.

    How long do you think NASA would take to build a thing like that? I find it quite plausible that they took their time with the first one, and possibly started contructing the second one not long after they started the first. If you look at it, it looks like scaffolding at this stage, the opening crawls for either ANH or RotJ also don't state when construction started, merely when they are learned of by the rebellion.

    As for the interior of the Star Destroyer with Imperial officers, apparently that's what the bridge of those things have looked like since the end of AotC, to be fair, it's the first look inside one we get, so who knows?
  16. Princess_Lego Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 1
    Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. ;)



  17. Sith Magician Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    And also on film school training and industry experience :)
  18. Jayd Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2001
    star 3
    My two and a half cents:

    I agree with Lego, it was definitely too rushed. One major annoyance for me was the deletion of the scenes where Padme starts to organise the rebellion (or something along those lines, I only heard a rumour). She seems to do an awful lot of nothing for pretty much the entire film, which seems WAY out of character for her. Sure, the story is meant to focus on Anakin, but if that's true why do we get all these extended boring battle scenes involving Obi-Wan? Instead of him rushing around on a lizard we could have had Padme setting the Rebellion in motion.

    On a better note, I had no complaints whatsoever about the sound (being the non-sound engineer that I am ;) ), nor the CGI. That opening scene with the ship flying by beneath the camera was absolutely brilliant, I couldn't believe how little like CGI it appeared!

    I also appreciated the talent behind the actors in this film, Natalie, Hayden and Ian in particular. They had, and let's be honest here, not much to work with in terms of script. And yet each performed really well! I loved Ian's performance as the Chancellor/Emperor as well. A couple of times he went a little overboard with the maniacal glee thing, but I saw glimpses of humour in the character here and there that I really liked. As if he was sitting back, amused that everything was STILL going to plan.

    Well, those are my thoughts for now, but I will definitely have to reserve a final opinion until after I've seen it again (as it appears many of you will do as well). I think I'll appreciate things a lot more second time around.
  19. soneil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Might sound like a copout but I agree with pretty much what everyone's said. I do think Anakin's fall and Palpy's transformation was a little rushed but that didn't bother me because I knew it had to be fit in the film. I guess in a way I kinda imagined that there was a lot more going on between scenes that couldn't fit in the movie.
    Like princess lego I expected to see more of Anakin personally hunting jedi but I don't think she meant seeing him wandering around in the black suit since I think everyone expected that to be at the end. I think she meant seeing more of the turned Anakin roaming through the galaxy and not limiting the hunt to the Jedi temple. I liked the way it was done. Seeing the jedi all taken by surprise and betrayed made their easy defeat seem more plausible, though I did always have the impression from ANH that Anakin would have done a lot of that in person before being confronted by Obiwan.
  20. JJArgonaut Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Back to the Death Star thing.

    If anyone has read the books they would know that it was Grand Moff Tarkin that brought the plans of the Death Star to the Emperor from his secret Maw Installation. Yet at the end of the AOTC we saw that the separatists on Geonosis had them? Moff Tarkin wasn't even involved at that point since it wasn't the empire yet.

    I think the Death Star was rushed into the movies to give some people who have a more limited understanding of the movies an opportunity to relate them.

    Also I think that they made R2 far to human like. He never really did that kind of movements or emotional squeaks in the other movies. Granted back then there was less to work with, it was still a bit iffy.

    CGI-Here I go again

    Seeing that I do not regularly see a lot of volcanic explosions in person I'll understand if this is totally wrong. But... Didn't the lava look extremely fake and far too blurry? The only times it looked decent was from a distance or when it was spewing on the antenna by DV and OBW before the thing fell into the lava. Come on George, your obsessions with CGI got you into that scene, so why not make me believe!
  21. Sith Magician Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    If anyone has read the books they would know...

    Sorry, that's about the point I stop reading ppl's posts on the films.

    The books are EU, and have zero bearing on the films, as Lucas has consistently demonstrated.
  22. soneil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    I have actually read that particular book with Tarkin and Seinar working out the DS designs but I figured that AOTC already blew that out of the water.
    As for when it was built. I don't think it was made clear and I think either explanation could be right. When I saw it I assumed that they were skipping ahead a few years since that makes more sense to me but either way it works.
  23. Sith Magician Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    When I saw it I assumed that they were skipping ahead a few years since that makes more sense to me but either way it works.

    They didn't skip ahead, that's how the interior of the ships and the officers were supposed to have looked throughout the Clone Wars, the Republic only changed it's name to the Empire, they already had the Imperial officers, Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers, they just looked slightly different.

    It's time some fanboys accepted it, Lucas just doesn't give a toss for EU, at least none of it written before 2002.
  24. soneil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Where did I base my conclusions on EU? I don't give a toss about the EU either. That's why I said I think AOTC already made the Tarkin bit irrelevant.
    When I say I think it makes more sense for the death star to have been started later I base that on the films and that opinion's nothing to do with what the officers looked like. I just think it's a bit of a stretch to think the original death star took that long to build when the second one which was bigger and better didn't. We could assume that the second one also took a long time and was begun before ANH but what is there to back that up? The information on the official site's databank certainly seems to indicate it was constructed after the battle of Yavin. I know that could be considered EU but I also think it's a good indication that most people assume it was begun after.
    Based on ROTJ alone I'd always assumed it was built as an improved death star to replace the first one and I think it would be fair to say that most people made the same assumption. The opening crawl says something about a new one more powerful than the first. I doubt palpy had plans to have them running off a production line. If Lucas has decided to go that way then that's his prerogative but I dislike it just as people can dislike his midichlorians discussions or anything else. I thought it was a great film regardless. I just agree with the others who think that was a little hard to swallow. Showing it may have been a nice touch but I think it would have made more sense to hint at it being a scene that takes place later on rather than being at the same time as the other events from the end of the film.
  25. Sith Magician Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    You mentioned EU earlier, wash your mouth out!

    But I find it quite plausible it took 20 years for the first one, and remember the second doesn't look all that complete when we see it, plus it is indicated in the film construction has been happening for some time.
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