FF:WA Thoughts on ROTS (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by soneil, May 19, 2005.

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  1. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    I'm liking your current sig, Sith. ;)

    I originally had planned to post this the day after the movie, but my Internet Exploder didn't seem to like it very much, so here I go...

    The movie rocked my world, first and second times I've seen it. End of story. I'm re-evaluating my list of favourite episodes; right now the list is ESB (fractionally) followed by ROTS, with all the others fairly close behind. The following thoughts are in random order.

    First up: I enjoyed the return of unashamed use of particular tableaux and counterpointing images for their own sake in this movie. It's been my impression most of the PT up until Thursday morning had been fairly workmanlike, conventional stagings and framings. This one, however, just felt like George and the cinematographers said, "Ahhh, what the hell, it's the last one, let's rock and roll."

    To wit: The Emperor standing over/kneeling over Anakin's body on Mustafar; Anakin's 'rebirth' being contrasted from moment to moment with Padme's death and the birth of the children; and the Emperor and Yoda as two tiny figures within the vastness of the Senate Chamber. Those are all that spring to mind at the moment.

    Lots of pleasing nods (conscious or otherwise) to other unrelated movies in this one, too: "E.T." in Yoda's departure from Kashyyyk; "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"'s mine cart chase in Obi-Wan's pursuit of Grievous on Utapau; the obvious "Frankenstein" thing in Vader's arrival on Coruscant to be rebuilt; "The Man in the Iron Mask" in that same scene as the helmet gets put on; and I even sensed a nice pull from "Devil's Advocate" in Palpatine and Anakin's conversation before Anakin goes to tell Mace of Palpatine's status as a Sith Lord. Was anyone else expecting the figures in the bas-relief mural behind Palpatine to start writhing around or moving? :) Very nice.

    My favourite use of images and colours, though, would have to be the leadup to The Duel. Anakin stands, metaphorically, at the forecourt to hell, lava and flames everywhere. A silver-winged vessel arrives, and Padme emerges...shortly followed by Obi-Wan, bathed in heavenly white light from within the ship. Gotta love the judaeochristian imagery.

    This is definitely Hayden Christensen and Ian McDiarmid's movie. They just chew up the scenery. Hayden was incredible. George really let him off his leash in this one. The same can be said of Ewan McGregor, who, to me, finally nailed Obi-Wan Kenobi in his younger days.
  2. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    I watched it again this evening.
    Still can't believe how good Hayden was.
    That argument before the duel still sends shivers down the spine.
  3. Jayd Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2001
    star 3
    I watched it again today, at the Megastadium in Warwick (which is a lot nicer than I thought it was, and REALLY BIG - go see it everyone!). I liked it heaps more second time around. The scenes I liked the most were when Anakin is waiting in the council room for Mace Windu to return after arresting Palpatine. That really signals the turning point, when he decides to take the plunge so to speak, and Hayden did an absolutely brilliant job at portraying that. Just a single tear rolling down the cheek did more than any dialogue could have.

    Another of my favourite moments was after Obi defeats Anakin on Mustafar. Ewan and Hayden really earned their pay in that scene, to my mind. Ewan's 'you were the chosen one!' and Anakin's 'I hate you' were so emotional I almost teared up. :p (Actually I heard a couple of girls in the toilets afterwards talking about the movie and how they had been crying through the whole last half of the movie... not being mean or anything but that's good to hear! ;) )

    Did anyone else notice a couple of contradictions between ROTS and the original trilogy? They were very small really, most I can't even remember, but one stands out. Vader quite obviously knows Luke is his son in ESB, but in ROTS Palpy tells him he killed pregnant Padme. Did I miss something? How did he find out?
  4. Princess_Lego Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 1
    I believe Luke Skywalker becomes quite the well known hero in the battle of Yavin. Vader noticed he was strong with the force and he did turn up with Obi-Wan. I think he and the Emperor just put 2 and 2 together and decided a child must have survived and been taken by Obi-Wan.
  5. Princess_Lego Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2000
    star 1
    Steve often plays new music for me that elicits a 'whatever' reaction, but next time I hear it it's my favourite song.

    I think this is what's happened to me with ROTS. Sitting in a cinema, tired beyond belief from 2 solid weeks making costumes, a 6 hour drive to Perth in the middle of the night and wearing a costume that stood out when I'm rather a shy person. I think my brain had shut down by the time the film started.

    I've been hearing from numerous people, how they were moved to tears by this or that part of the movie, and not being able to empathise at all. I had no problems at all with the story structure or special effects, some of it was pleasantly surprising. But as for emotion, I felt none.

    This definitely warrants a second viewing, maybe in the daytime. Now I have the story straight in my head, maybe I can relax and just be entertained. Anyone else had this kind of problem?
  6. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    I understand what you mean.
    I certainly enjoyed it more on my second viewing yesterday.
  7. Jayd Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2001
    star 3
    I thought I was the only one who felt like that, Lego - having to see things twice to get a decent opinion. :p

    That makes sense, too, about Vader and Palpy just putting two and two together, but I want to know if it was ever explained in canon or if George just expected us to kinda extrapolate a bit! :p
  8. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    It is explained in the OT DVD collection; they altered the dialogue in the Vader/Palpatine conversation during ESB. The Emperor basically says words to the effect of "There is a grave disturbance in the Force. I have no doubt the Rebel pilot who destroyed the Death Star is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker." Vader replies "How is that possible?", and the Emperor basically says use your feelings and so forth.

    Since it's a GL alteration, one presumes it's canon. Ergo the Emperor sensed Luke's existence first, though Vader sensed it as well (understandable given Luke's theoretically more powerful than his father, and Qui-Gon sensed Anakin's presence even on the surface of Tatooine). It's just that Palpatine's strength with the Force and knowledge of the future allowed him to figure it out first.
  9. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    I wasn't aware of that change in ESB.
    I like it.
  10. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Useless piece of trivia for you.

    That new Emperor scene was filmed right after the scene in RotS with Vader waking up on the table, they took him from there, straight as is over to a green screen and shot it.
  11. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    To be honest (and I know we're getting off track here) I'm a bit underwhelmed by the insertion on ESB. Ian McDiarmid is teh Emperor, don't get me wrong, but there's something about his performance in that scene that was a bit off. I suppose I prefer the old, booming monkey in a cowl as opposed to the crumpled old salamander they stuck into that scene ;)

    Another random thought on ROTS: the conversation between Palpatine and Anakin at the Opera House. Very nicely done, and McDiarmid once again shines through with a subtle performance. The best part for me was McDiarmid implying that Palpatine has some pleasant memories of Darth Plagus as his master. Those little whimsical smiles are the closest we come to getting inside Palpatine's head in any of the six movies, and it's a very satisfying moment.

    As for the bigger questions, such as the theory that Anakin is in fact a product of the Sith ... I think it's a credit to Ian McDiarmid (and, God forbid, GL as a director) that he creates such a subtle and yet equivocal performance causing the controversy in the first place. Most likely we'll never know ... and that's the beauty of it. There's still room for imagination in the Star Wars universe because not everything has been answered.
  12. Kartanym Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    wait, so palpatine drugged shmi so she would forget and knocked her up?

    hehe :p
  13. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    EDIT: Nah, that's just a bit too obvious ... not to mention a bit too raw. :D

    ...To answer the question, no--Palpatine didn't know the technique. Plagus did. :D
  14. JOHNNAGE_THE_BRAVE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Have you guys ever been to that Clown's website: supershadow.com?

    He claims he's GL's most trusted buddy. (so he's not Steven Spielberg)

    But he was writing about Plagis ages ago, saying he was Sidious's master, but officially he states that Palpatine had nothing to do with Anakin's conception, although I reckon Qui Gonn woul've left to order for a side dish of Shmi!!!!
  15. Aztek Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2001
    star 4
    Welcome to the boards Johnnage, hope you stay with us a while.

    As for SuperShadow, the guy is a complete tool, quite often posting stuff thats been known about for weeks and telling everyone it's an exclusive that he got from Georgey.
  16. JOHNNAGE_THE_BRAVE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    yeah he's a jackass!

    all the Crap about him "scoring" all the time. Weak minded fool!
  17. DarthDatorri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 1
    Did anyone notice the contradiction during Anakin's outburst about being on the council but not being granted Master? He said something along the lines of "Being on the council but not a master? That's unheard of in the history of the Jedi"

    Wasn't Ki Adi Mundi a jedi knight during The Phantom Menace?
  18. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Wasn't Ki Adi Mundi a jedi knight during The Phantom Menace?

    Never mentioned in the film, so it's not a contradiction.
  19. DarthDatorri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 1
    But even if you discount the EU.....the EP1 toys mentioned it on the back of his card.
  20. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Not to be pedantic, but that's my point, did he read the back of his card to the audience in the film?
  21. DarthDatorri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 1
    Yeah yeah. :p

    But it was widely accepted after TPM that Ki-Adi Mundi was a knight. Not just in the EU circle...
  22. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Well, that appears to now be changed ;)
  23. JOHNNAGE_THE_BRAVE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Those "information cards" are usually written half assed by the toy manufacturers, and should be taken with a grain of salt. Or a slice of cheese- whatever you prefer to eat.
  24. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    That would be the same toy manufacturers that are the reason the word "Clonetrooper" was made.

    In the shooting scripts, on set and even in the DVD commentaries, Lucas calls them Stormtroopers. It wasn't until it got to the merchandising end that someone at Hasbro said "Hey, we're still selling these other things called Stormtroopers, can we call them something else?". And Lucas said, "ok."
  25. JOHNNAGE_THE_BRAVE Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 4
    Like the Death Squadron Commander toy which was later renamed Death Star Commander.

    toy co's are a bit wiggedy wiggedy whack!
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