Thoughts on the 'Infinities' label (poss AOTC spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth Thrawn, Aug 8, 2001.

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  1. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Jaster Mareel is an alias of Boba Fett's. After the events of AOTC, he will go off on his own. Since it's doubtful at this time, if he comes back. It's possible that he went to Concord Dawn and lived the life of a Journeymen Protector.
  2. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    note sinister, he had time as Mandalorian super-commando, under the command of jenx ferro on mandalore, before going to concord dawn.
  3. Darth Thrawn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2000
    star 3
    Im sure it was posted in TFn Ep2, that the clonetroopers BECAME the stormtroopers, if thats the case then the stormtroopers as of ANH would have been clones, and also the ones as of ROTJ, which means Luke (as a jedi by then) would have experianced the buzzing sensation of the clones in the force, which meant that he should have felt that in TTT, therefor TTT becomes infinities...oh no......

  4. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "clonetroopers BECAME the stormtroopers"

    Plus later ones that are conscripted into the army, and are not clones, that are trained at carida. So yes all clonetroopers become stormtroopers. Yet not all stormtroopers are clones. It's easy as that.

    It's the same sort of logic, an example stating, "all mothers are woman, but not all woman are mothers"(If a man wants to call himself a mother though, that's another thing altogether.) there's a geometry theorem that discusses this kind of logic.
  5. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Valiento...
    "note sinister, he had time as Mandalorian super-commando, under the command of jenx ferro on mandalore, before going to concord dawn."

    The famed Mandalorian hero was Commander Janx Ferro. And, it's actually unknown if Boba Fett ever served under his command, much less as one of the elite Mandalorian Commandos in the engagement where Republican Army Lieutenant Weirs' lost his chest cavity.
  6. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    I was going by you synopses ghengis, and how you worded it, if it's innacurate, all fault goes to you.

    "When the smoke cleared, and the Battle for Mandalore was written down in the annals of history, it was the Jedi who won. Only Boba Fett, Fenn Shysha, Tobbi Dala and a few other remaining Mandalorian commandos survived. Commander Ferro's body was never recovered."-ghengis
  7. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    :D Exactly. However, since my summary never had Fett under Ferro's command, I fail to see how it would be my fault. ;) The fact that Boba Fett survived the Battle for Mandalore is mutually exclusive of the fact of which troops were commanded by whom during that battle.
  8. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    It sure looked that way:

    you said,
    "He charged famed Mandalorian hero, Janx Ferro - one of the feared Mandalorian Supercommandos - and a squad of his elite Mandalorian commandos with delaying the advancing Republican troops while he prepared to lift off."


    then you said,
    "When the smoke cleared, and the Battle for Mandalore was written down in the annals of history, it was the Jedi who won. Only Boba Fett, Fenn Shysha, Tobbi Dala and a few other remaining Mandalorian commandos survived. Commander Ferro's body was never recovered."


    sure looked like you were implying that only a few squad members survived from that battle, and only Commando Ferro's body was never recovered.

    See how I can be confused by what you wrote?, maybe you should edit your synopses, and clarify that, there were more than one squad, and that fett, shysa, dalla, and ferro weren't connected, and send me the new edition when your done.
  9. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Valiento...
    "See how I can be confused by what you wrote?"

    No. There is not any implication anywhere that Fett was under Ferro's command. At the conclusion of the battle, there were few Mandalorians who survived, Fett being one of them.

    The summary has three main components to it, of which you have taken out of context...
    1. The background for the Battle for Mandalore
    2. One skirmish between Ferro and the Jedi in that Battle
    3. The conclusion of the Battle for Mandalore

    Nowhere is there any implication that Boba Fett was a part of the skirmish which Commander Ferro led. There were references to other Mandalore units beyond what was led by Ferro. Nowhere was Ferro, Fett, Shysha and Dala linked to each other beyond the fact that some lived through the battle. You have stretched things beyond what was given.
  10. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    How daft, man, if you just switch, two sentences, it totally throws a different meaning:


    "Only Boba Fett, Fenn Shysha, Tobbi Dala and a few other remaining Mandalorian commandos survived. Commander Ferro's body was never recovered."

    "Commander Ferro's body was never recovered. Only Boba Fett, Fenn Shysha, Tobbi Dala and a few other remaining Mandalorian commandos survived."

    Since fett, had nothing to do with ferro, in correct order of english chronology, farro's body should have came first, then survivors of the whole battle. It's semantics, and syntax, I know, but it can cause confusion, I know, I'm not the only one confused by it(talked to others thought you were implying the same way, because of the incorrect use of that sentence). Going by english it really should have it's own seperate paragraph, not tied to ferro's paragraph. It might make sense to someone who speaks yoda speak though, :-D, how it is now.
  11. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    That's all well and good, but I'm not writing any new ficition or prose nor after altering the original. I'm summarizing events which has already happened and happened in a certain order. I am looking to maximize the information to people who don't have the benefit of the original sources. One of the main goals of such a summary is to not alter that source and especially not alter the order which events happened in the source.

    So, the result is that you are in effect getting a summary of the original article and its place in Star Wars continuity.
  12. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "That's all well and good, but I'm not writing any new ficition or prose nor after altering the original."

    why not retype the original article, in the way it was written, without your additions? because your the one that added in naboo, and trade federation weapons, I'm certain, since Challenge and weg did those articles pre-tpm.
  13. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Valiento...
    "why not retype the original article, in the way it was written, without your additions?"

    Because I don't own the contents of the article, I don't own the copyright to the article, nor do I have permission from the owner to retype the original article in the way it was written without additions.

    And actually the portions you assumed were new were not. The "Trade Fed weaponry," (War Droids) as well as the whole backstory of their dubious legality (presumably after the Battle of Naboo) were all in the original source. Just goes to show that you shouldn't assume things. :D The "plan" for the prequels has been known for quite some time.
  14. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Then your summery, is basically fanfic, and has editorial(breaks a few rules of english, semantical, and syntaxtical) mistakes, and not up to the quality of the original source.
  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Valiento...
    "Then your summery, is basically fanfic, and has editorial mistakes, and not up to the quality of the original source."

    My summary is a summary. I do not work for Lucasfilm, so nothing I create as a fan is official. It doesn't have editorial mistakes that I know of and hopefully is up to the quality of the original source. However, I cannot account for all possible items that people may read into it. If you list where I state that Fett worked under Ferro, then I will gladly revisit my editing of content. If it's not there, then I suggest you revisit your analysis.
  16. Matthew Trias Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Uhm..I agree with Valiento.He's kinda right....

    I mean that Fett info kinda came out of the blue in a paragraph.You were talking bout farrow's unit, and how he died.Then Fett is thrown in.You put more info in a paragraph than what was needed.

    The Fett info deserves it's own paragraph as an addendum to the aftermath of the battle
  17. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    However, again, that is essentially how the original concluded and yes Boba Fett did indeed come right out of the blue. I view leaving the original components in place as they appear as fairly important. Otherwise, it is not necessarily a valid summary, but something else.

    While I can editorally correct the original source, I do not believe it is necessarily my place to do so. Others may feel differently. The original creators had their reasons for doing things the way they did. I respect their reasons. I also respect the continuity the source exists in, which is why it was also put in context of the overall saga.
  18. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    For example, I suppose I could have named the members of Governor Vrox's elite Wraith squad, in fact including Fett, Shysha, Dala and even Jodo Kast (or even a Bodo Kast, Vodo Kast, Podo Kast, Dodo...) if I wished to turn a few heads, as well as creating six new names of my own design. Then, I could have given background on the members of Wraith squad. In addition, I could have created new content for the background of the Jedi as well as Weirs and the men of Modulus and Pico-12 squads. It could make for a much more compelling story.

    However, it would make for a poor summary.
  19. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Then if indeed, the original authors wrote it that way, by "English" rules, it's no more info that was needed, and it pertains to the info about he unit infront of it. Unless it says they are seperate units, I strongly implies Ownership, to farrow's group. If it was meant to be pointed to another unit it would have said so in the sentence, but to be saying that it's not is your own views making your read into what you want too.

    But since I haven't seen the original source, and you won't give a direct quote, I can't say yey or nay. I can just tell you how english lit would go about saying about your summery, and what it infers.

    Maybe until there is proof, and such, I still have to consider your info Comprimised, and expanded upon.

    I must note since you added info(from sources that wouldn't even existed at the time of the original articles printing), you have changed the author's original intent, more than the original source intended, doing the same thing you accuse me of doing(something I'm not willfulling doing but the way that uneeded info is written, and were it's placed implies). Which would hypocritical of you to point fingers.
  20. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    It's not hypocritical at all Valiento. You made a clearly false claim...
    "under the command of jenx ferro on mandalore"

    This is something you suggest came from my summary. Yet my summary does not make such a claim. The original source does not make such a claim. Therefore, it is neither the fault of the source or the summary. You just made an false claim from an incorrect inference. This is something which happens all the time in Star Wars sources where people indfer things (ex: someone calling Lumiya, "Darth Lumiya")

    In fact, IMO it is clear that Governor Vrox's Wraith Squad of 10 Mnadalorian Commandos plus a Commander did not comprise the whole of the Mandalorian forces. IMO it is also clear that they were used in just one small part of the overall battle - stop the advancing troops while the Governor escaped. It is also clear that other engagements occurred outside of Cmdr. Ferro's squad. I can cite you passages in the summary where this information is given if you like.
  21. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "This is something you suggest came from my summary. Yet my summary does not make such a claim. The original source does not make such a claim. Therefore, it is neither the fault of the source or the summary. You just made an false claim."

    while you made the false clame and addition by adding info about TPM, which clearly didn't exist when that article came out.


    The article only talks about one unit of mandaloran troops, ferro's unit. Then it talks about how they get killed. It says only fett, shysa and dala plus a few others lived. then it says ferro's body was never found. In english, that either implies they are part of his unit, since the topic was about his unit, or they are more info than is required. Since you seem to state that's what the original source says. Then it not more info than is required, and is part of the topic at hand, the outcome of ferrow's unit.

    I'm not adding anything in, than what was implied, by standard english rules. Rules that books and articles still have to live by. IF it was a mistake it still implies a refrence to the section on the outcome of ferro's unit. That's were the problem arises.

  22. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Valiento...
    "while you made the false clame and addition by adding info about TPM, which clearly didn't exist when that article came out."

    The claim isn't false. However, yes there was additional information added to tie the article in with continuity. This is a wholly seperate issue than modifying anything from taken from Battle for Mandalore.

    That is, the items from Battle for Mandalore have been summarized as have items from other sources. However, I would hope that nothing from Battle for Mandalore has been modified, which is what your claim of "Ferro led Fett would suggest."

    That is, if:
    A = Battle for Mandalore
    B = Continuity

    Then my summary may be A+B. Someone wishing to read about A learns about A. They also learn about B even if they never wished to know about B to begin with.

    This is wholly different from modifying A into C and then writing about C+B. Someone wishing to read about A, then is out of luck, because they'd be learning about C, which may not officially exist at all.
  23. Valiento Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    A. "Opposing them were 10 of the Governors' elite Wraith Squad of the Mandalorian Commandos, led by one of the deadliest men in the entire galaxy, Commander Janx Ferro. They were joined by one of the Governor's illegal War Droids, a massive JU-9 Juggernaut War Droid."

    only ferro's squad is 10 men strong, and group of war droids fought.

    b. "No reinforcements for either side were available as the deadly game of cat and mouse played itself out."

    No other warrior or units existed during this battle, to reinforce there ranks.

    c. "The final skirmish of the Battle for Mandalore would be waged in the inner city of Mandalore's capital, near the Governor's spaceport. Thick black smoke shrouded the city, bringing visability to a minimum. The Mandalorians set up a cross-fire ambush for the advancing Republican force. As the Republican troops unknowingly walked right into the middle of the cross-fire, Mistress Quana let out a warning. But that warning was too late, Weirs was cut down instantly as the smoke was lighted eerily by the blaze of blaster-fire."

    This battle was only ferro's group.


    d. "When the smoke cleared, and the Battle for Mandalore was written down in the annals of history, it was the Jedi who won. Only Boba Fett, Fenn Shysha, Tobbi Dala and a few other remaining Mandalorian commandos survived. Commander Ferro's body was never recovered."

    the jedi won the battle. If (A.) says only 10 mandaloretroops fought, led by janx ferro, (B.)says there was no reinforcments.

    and

    (D.) says boba fett, fenn shysha and tobbi dala, and a few others, survived the battle. then they were part of jenx ferro's unit, going by the rule (A.) set down that Janx ferro was in charge of 10 trooper strong unit, and being the only unit. Then for those 3 troopers, plus a few others are the survive it they are part of his unit, you have to be in a battle to survive the battle. Then it goes to say Janx ferro was was never found. So from the article and by english Lit rules, it Implies fett, shysa, and dala were part of ferro's unit, since his was the only unit to fight.

    That's what your article says, I haven't made up or added anything else to it, at all. your accusing me of doing something I never did.
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