main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Thousand years or thousand generations???

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by ashjedi, Oct 21, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ashjedi

    ashjedi Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Can someone help me with this:

    Why does Palpatine says in AOTC that the republic has stood for a thousand YEARS and in ANH obi-wan says that it has stood a thousand GENERATIONS??

    Thanks

    See last post.
     
  2. Darth Geist

    Darth Geist Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Well, you see, citizens of the Republic grow to maturity within seven to eight months, breed and die within a year. The Anakin you see in AOTC is actually TPM's Anakin's tenth descendant. Padme's "You'll always be that little boy I knew on Tattooine" line actually refers to her visit there last week.

    Or, more likely, someone just messed up. It happens. :p
     
  3. IEatPoodoo

    IEatPoodoo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2000
    Someone should ask McCallum on the official site...
     
  4. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    The Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice for a thousand generations.
    My guess is that the Republic has been at peace for a thousand years and that is what Palpy is referring to.
     
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    The Jedi order predates the Old Republic.
     
  6. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Because, that's Obi-Wan's point of view ;)
     
  7. IEatPoodoo

    IEatPoodoo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2000
    Obi-Wan says that the Jedi were the gaurdians of peace and justice in the Old Republic for a thousand generations. Sio Bibble says that there hasn't been a full scale war since the formation of the Republic. And Palpatine says the Republic has stood for a thousand years. Someone's lying...
     
  8. PalpatineAntikristos

    PalpatineAntikristos Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2002
    When I heard Palpy say that, I assumed he meant in the same sense that the current French government is of the Fifth Republic (founded in 1958). France had other republican constitutions before the Fifth Republic and had, of course, existed for hundreds of years prior as a monarchy. The periods between republican constitutions were punctuated by the Empire, restoration of the monarchy, restoration of the Empire, wars, invasion and an occupation. In other words, Palpatine and Sio Bibble, both politicians, may be speaking of the time since the most recent republican constitution was adopted and/or major conflict that led to a change in constitution (1,000 years). While Kenobi, a Jedi (guardian) and warrior, may be referring to the time since the instituation of the first republican form of government (1,000 generations)when the Jedi first began serving the government as guardians. So they could all be right, from a certain....Nah, I won't even bother with that cliche.

     
  9. AttackCloneYorath

    AttackCloneYorath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Come now, this is not a problem (or a plot-hole) at all!!! It is easy to explain.
    :D

    As Go-Mer-Tonic said, The Jedi order pre-dates the Old Republic. It was formed waaaaaay before the Republic came to be, the way it was seen in the first three episodes. There may have been fledgling Republican governments or partially war-torn parts of the Republic 1000 years prior to AOTC. When Palps says "This republic that has stood for a 1000 years" I assumed that the Republic had been at a state of TOTAL PEACE (i.e. no major conflicts) for that amount of time. The Jedi were simply there to keep the peace for 'minor' flash points (as in TPM). The Jedi had of course been around during the turbulent times 1000's of years before AOTC and were likely involved in wars to serve and protect a troubled republic.

    Besides, Ki-Adi-Mundi mentions that the Sith have been extinct for a 'Millenium' in TPM, could Palps also have been refering to the Republic standing for a 1000 years without any real threat such as the Sith??!

    About the Sio-Bible comment: "There hasn't been a FULL-SCALE war since the formation of the republic". Well, the term FULL-SCALE is the clue there. If the Republic, as seen in the prequels, was truly formed 1000 years prior to AOTC then what is wrong with there being a FULL-SCALE war at that time?? If the Republic was created many thousands of years prior to AOTC then what is wrong with the FULL-SCALE war having happened say, 10,000 years ago for arguments sake? There may have been smaller wars until 1000 years ago (to qualify Palps statement) and from then on TOTAL PEACE save for minor, isolated disputes.

    It makes sense if you think about it logically. NONE of these three peoples statements directly contradicts the others! They are all talking about differnet periods of their galaxys history:
    1. Obi is talking about ancient Jedi lore (30,000 years say for arguments sake) to the time of Ep3.
    2. Bible is talking about TOTAL-WAR at the start of the Republic(sometime after the Jedi orders creation but almost certainly more than 1000 years before AOTC).
    3. Palp is talking about more recent stability or a newly fromed Republic (1000 years prior to AOTC).

    What say you fellow fans? Am I talking sense or not?
    :D
    See my way or I'll set my clones on you!!
    ;)
     
  10. darth-skycrawler

    darth-skycrawler Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2001
    I have had the feeling that maybe the Republic was reformed after the sith were 'destroyed'. If Return of the Jedi is anything to go by then the war to 'destroy'the sith must have been very costly. Thus the republic may have had to be reformed. I don't think that it is coincidence that Lucas has Bibble claim that there has not be a full scale war since the formation of the republic and the fact that the sith were destroye a 1000 years ago.

    I think that Lucas is trying to show that the Republic existed for a very long time, then the sith tried to take over 1000 years prior to TPM, everything was destroyed like the war with the empire and finally he new republic that we see in TPM was formed
     
  11. AttackCloneYorath

    AttackCloneYorath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Yes, darth-skycrawler, I think that "something" quite significant happend 1000 years prior to AOTC (hence the current Republic lasting for only 1000 years). If the Sith were made extinct at the same time then there is likely a link. Maybe the Sith at that time (still only one master and one apprentice), used an army for a direct assault on the Republic. The conflict was so great that after it had ended (with the seeming destruction of the Sith Lords), the Republic was rebuilt and that era is what Palp is reffering to as the 1000 year Republic! There was a functioning Republic before the Sith invasion but it was reformed... This could also be the FULL-SCALE war Bible aludes to... Maybe that is why all human (and alien) armies were abandoned, thereby forcing the Neimoidians to use droid armies (as well as cheap costs and obedient troops). There were no other standard armies in operation before the clone armies (YES, armies! Lama Su said they had created several) came into being. This is why the Jedi were the true guardians of peace and order in the galaxy besides the local security and malitia forces.

    It is a very interesting puzzle indeed. I hope they expand on this minor story thread in Episode3!!! That would be amazing (well I think so!) It is not essential to the Fall of Anakin or the story of the Skywalker family in any significant way, but it would help us understand the Jedi-Republic-Sith relationship a little better.
    :D
     
  12. MobartZmuda

    MobartZmuda Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Good explanations. It all makes sense now.
     
  13. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    IEATPOODOO said: Obi-Wan says that the Jedi were the gaurdians of peace and justice in the Old Republic for a thousand generations. Sio Bibble says that there hasn't been a full scale war since the formation of the Republic. And Palpatine says the Republic has stood for a thousand years. Someone's lying...

    Exactly. It's just a mistake in the dialogue. There is no evidence whatsoever of a "1,000 year old Republic" or a "reformed Republic." These are both plausible explanations, but nothing indicates that in the films. And if there was all this conflict and action taking place just before the Repubic was formed, the Jedi should have a LOT of information on the Sith, but they seem to know very little about them. I always thought the "thosuands of generations" line was an error. The Jedi have been around for 30,000 + years? I don't know about that. And that would make it even more inconsistent in the OT when they are barely remembered and thought of as "hokey". This is a very very minor point though.
     
  14. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Why would the Jedi have a LOT of information on the Sith just because there was a great Sith war taking place right before the reformation of the Republic?
    Well, maybe they do have lots of info, but they sure can´t have any info on what they´ve been doing the last 1000 years(which makes you wonder how Yoda knew about the rule of 2, but that´s another story).
     
  15. Chilean_JEDI19

    Chilean_JEDI19 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 8, 2002
    I read somewhere (don't remember right now) that Palpatine said that to "show" that we does'nt know too much about the galactic history and he is just a harmless, ignorant politician...


     
  16. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    SMAULDOOKIE-- I only say that because if the Jedi were around that long, i would assume the Sith were around a long time too, before they became 'extinct.' Thus there would be alot of information about them. And I don't know about a Sith war. Did that really happen? TPM never really says so. but either way, you'd think the Jedi would have a much larger body of knowledge than they do. No one seems to know anything about the Sith.

    CHILEAN-- That could be true! And it would help this make sense.

    If only the movies would have delved into some of this! Yes, I am a fan of Sith backstory!
     
  17. AttackCloneYorath

    AttackCloneYorath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    nice to see you MobartZmunda. I have been watching your career with great interest!

    :D

    Do you guys think this little story thread will be explained further in Episode3??? If Palpatine "comes out of the closet" he may well explain to Anakin and/or Obi-Wan how the Sith have worked for the past 1000 years to put this new plan for galactic control into effect (ever since their seeming destruction during the FULL-SCALE war Bible mentions).

    I am convinced now that the references to the 1000 year old Republic (or 1000 years of Republic peace) is linked in some way to the "Sith extinct for over a millenium" line. I can sense it...

    I know it seems a little far fetched but it works out well. Doesn't it?
    ?[face_plain]
     
  18. AttackCloneYorath

    AttackCloneYorath Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    You guys, even if we have made some of this up based on the known film-facts it doesn't mean that on their own they contradict each other.

    1. Palps - the REPUBLIC has stood for a 1000 years.
    2. Obi - the JEDI have been around for 1000 generations.
    3. Bible - Full-scale war at the formation of the Republic.
    4. Ki-Adi - SITH extinct for a millenium.

    Even without our story fillers (i.e. this possibly linking in with a Sith invasion and/or the extinction of the Sith), these canonical facts do not conflict at all. "There is no conflict!"
    :)

    EDIT: How you interperet these things is up to you. I feel that these things may come together and be touched on briefly by (possibly) Palpatine towards the end of Episode3.
     
  19. MobartZmuda

    MobartZmuda Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    I completely agree with you AttackCloneYorath--It is nice to see me :D
    Indeed you are powerful, as the Emperor has foreseen. I also think that the end of the great Sith War coincides with the 1000 years of peace.
     
  20. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    GDS: SMAULDOOKIE? :confused:
     
  21. Green_Destiny_Sword

    Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Sorry Lars! Smaul posts so much with that icon, I just got brainwashed. *wiping memory*
     
  22. JediMasterGuff

    JediMasterGuff Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2002
    I think AttackCloneYorath has got it. I'll take his answer.
     
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999

    [b]Green_Destiny_Sword:[/b] "There is no evidence whatsoever of a "1,000 year old Republic" or a "reformed Republic." These are both plausible explanations, but nothing indicates that in the films."[hr][/blockquote]No evidence except for the two passages of dialogue in question here. The Jedi Order has been around for a thousand generations according to Obi-Wan in ANH, and the Republic had been around for a thousand years according to Palpatine in AOTC.

    This is only a plot hole if you insist on there being one.
     
  24. Sithman

    Sithman Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 1999
    Gomer: "The Jedi order predates the Old Republic."

    Bingo.

    Obi-Wan Kenobi said in ANH:
    "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."


    Chancellor Palpatine said in AOTC:
    "I will not let this Republic that has stood for a thousand years be split in two."


    The words "Old" and "this" were bolded to make my point. The term "Old Republic" infers that there was a different republic before the one in the AOTC era because obviously no one would call it "old" unless there were several different reformed republics. After all, no one calls something old unless there's something new, right?

    Palpatine's "this" further proves the above hypothesis. Why would Palpatine need to say "this Republic" unless to specify between one or more republics?



    Did anyone understand that? [face_blush]
     
  25. Jet-Eye-Blah

    Jet-Eye-Blah Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 2002
    26,000 years before ANH -- Hyperdrive technology was discovered.

    25,000 years before ANH -- Galatic Republic was formed.

    Shortly after, the Jedi Order split into 2, light and dark, with the dark Jedi left the known space to form the Sith Empire.

    ||
    Fast forward
    ||

    Around 5,000 years before ANH -- First Sith War between the Sith Empire and the Republic, the Sith Empire was destoryed and the Sith race became extinct.

    Some 4,000 years before ANH -- Exar Kun founded the 2nd Sith Order, called Brotherhood of the Sith, and started the 2nd Sith War. The 2nd Sith Order almost destoryed the Jedi Order (most of the Order's Jedi Masters were killed) and was itself destoryed when Exar Kun died.

    Some 2,000 years before ANH -- Certain ex-Jedi founded the 3rd Sith Order, called Brotherhood of Darkness, and started the 3rd Sith War.

    1,000 years before ANH -- Battle of Ruusan, Army of Light VS Brotherhood of Darkness. Lord Kaan of the Sith, after realizing he had lost the battle, decided to go kamikaze. He used the Sith Thought Bomb to destory all Force users on the planet of Ruusan, Jedi and Sith. 3rd Sith Order and the existing Jedi Order were both destoryed. Republic collapsed and have to be reformed.

    Only Darth Bane survived the Thought Bomb, he formed the 4th Sith Order, the Order whose Lords name all starts with "Darth." He also adopted the rule of 2, and stressed secrecy above all else. Basically Darth Bane's Sith Order is the one we see in TPM and ATOC.


    ^
    ^
    ^
    The above is mostly EU, of course, but it does not contradict the movies, so please don't lynch me. :eek:

    :)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.