Lit Thrawn Trilogy: Overrated?

I thought you were a fan of the empire. The DS is just another form of super-bullying.

And if bullying is so ineffective, how come the "great nations of the world" are so free to enforce their will on others and exploit the natural resources of weaker nations? Even something as harmless as the gold ring you buy for a wedding is made by using mercury, which in turn poisons water in Peru and leads to severe health problems. And I am not even getting into the topic of making war for oil and other resources.

 

It's odd. That's the one time I don't really mind it. His tactical prowess is a bit overstated and his "maverick" military notions in comparison to his people's moral ideas about war are a a bit overstated. But I can buy the idea that he was more measured before contact with the Empire really brought out the harsher side of his pragmatism. It's more problematic in HoT and really bad in Choices of One. I can buy a "cleaner" Thrawn pre Imperial service. But the way Zahn portrays him after this, in works subsequent to the original trilogy is pretty bad. And it's pretty much all meant to diminish Vader. He does the same thing with Mara too but that's a whole different topic.

Thrawn can be talented. He certainly was in the first trilogy. But he still had flaws and defeats. Sluis Van, for instance, is a general gain for him but he's outplayed by something he doesn't predict. Sure, it's a bit contrived that Lando happens to be there but overall, it works. Come Hand of Thrawn, people shiver at his name. Voss Parck's singing his accolades (and also doing a wonderful job playing up Doriana in the most absurd manner ever). Zahn tries to have Han handwave things but it doesn't work. Too many people are buying into it in universe by that point.

 

I think Zahn had thought better of it at some point- downplaying Doriana's importance in later books. As far as we know- he's not a Force-user, or a great military commander- and he doesn't even know Palpatine and Sidious are the same person.

 

To me the reason Thrawn's phantom return spooks the NR so much is that before he did a lot with very little. that's it.

In military terms, the bigger problem in HoT is everyone and their brother deciding to act like Mafioso and pursue just about every vendetta they can, no matter how old, at any cost.

 

A point is made of how, horrible as the Empire was, it kept a lid on all those ongoing vendettas.

 

Yeah, a Tito effect, but at best, that was only ever going to be temporary.

I quite like that idea because it pre-empts the Q: If the Empire had so much of a material advantage over the Alliance why didn't they just steamroller it into the ground?

Re: Vader and deaths - I would suspect many of those are from orbital bombardments and interrogations, I doubt the Empire needed to engage in the sort horrific real-life torture atrocities.

 

Exactly. At least that's generally how I see it. If plotted on a line and read, the chronological story of Thrawn should show that development. I'm fine if he starts off idealistic and even if he starts off worried about the Vong (and having side contingencies for them) but at some point I should really understand why he buys into the concept of the Empire so much. The Vong motivation isn't sufficient for me. Here we have this guy with, nominally, good intentions and as time goes on (in universe) he basically seems to enjoy undercutting the authority of the political body that he's sworn fealty to.

I want to see the moment he changed. What caused it? It doesn't even necessarily have to be a big tragic, "This guy could have been a hero" type of fall. But rather, just a moment of realization. This is who I was. This is who I am and need to be now.

I feel that if you look at the EU, that's what's missing. First time we see him, he's ruthlessly pragmatic when needed. He's flawed but capable of managing information. He has sound tactical knowledge. Next time he's mentioned, the mere idea of him (along with some exploitation of grudges) threatens the entire Empire. Then he's a guy who pretends to be Jodo Kast and is a stormtrooper in Tatooine Ghost. Then he's an idealist. Then he's undercutting Vader.

It's all over the map. That's the big problem with Thrawn. Zahn (and other writers) can barely figure out what he wants the guy to be, other than awesome. But it's not a trackable "awesome"; it's just whatever type of awesome they want for the story.

 

I could see Mist Encounter as the immediate aftermath of that fall- Thrawn has just been exiled- and he meets Imperials- and proves himself something that they could make use of- killing several stormtroopers in the process.

All he really does is say "The Emperor should be consulted". With Tarkin overruling him.

 

So now we need a story about Thrawn's exile on that jungle planet or something? I still consider myself a TTT fan, but even I'm not too pumped for that. Maybe someone can write a fanfic or something.

Recall how many people blamed Lord Vader for Alderaan even though he had actually been vaguely hesitant about it.

 

Well Isard covers the post-Endor but before then? Vader and Sidious couldn't be arsed?

 

Don't forget the 'cautery' action on Xizor's homeworld; quite a few deaths involved there ISTR.

 

Mist Encounter already exists- but what I'd like to see is how Thrawn got exiled in the first place.

 

I meant a story that's just Thrawn's life on the planet before the Imperials find him and how he becomes progressively more cynical during his stay, but there's not much room for other characters, so I figure it'd be boring. As for his getting exiled in the first place, that would be a more interesting story, but not necessarily where you'd expect an epiphany to come from. It could work, though.

 

I don't know if anyone wants that. Personally, I'd prefer to see his progression in service to the Empire more than the space in between.

 

There's snippets of his pre-TTT career all over the EU- the Dark Forces books, Choices of One, Rebel Force: Target, the Galaxy of Fear books- but what we don't see much of, is his earliest career in the Empire.

I'd say it's more a concern that the Emperor might object, and not knowing if he had pre-existing plans for Alderaan.

 

Foreshadowed (if that's the right word) in OBF, along with his habit of going beyond what his superiors (and culture) permit, IMHO.

Then too, I wouldn't put it past him to have arranged the circumstances of his 'exile' to be able to meet Sidious face-to-face.

 

I only meant that it is more effective than we civilized people would like to think, not that it is desirable in any way. Because the danger is so real and serious, we must always be on guard about it. Or at least that's how I see it.

 

Yeah I guess my overall point is that it's schizophrenic. The progression should be clear when most of the time he just does whatever writers want. Think of Tatooine Ghost. He doesn't have to be there but he is, slumming it with bucketheads. Side Trip is also sort of odd in this regard. Thrawn moves all over the map compared to what we originally get in TTT.

 

When one has blue skin, glowing red eyes and a nose, some form of disguise is indicated IMHO; and "If one wants something done properly, do it oneself" could also apply.

 

I agree with the original poster, and disagree.

I disagree because despite the fault you mentioned, I find the trilogy to be absolutely riveting and pure Star Wars.

I agree because the one complaint you have it seems (the coincidences), I absolutely agree with. They are, frankly, ridiculous throughout the trilogy -- so much so, that I really can't agree with someone calling it nitpicky. And any coincidences that occurred in the films don't even compare.

Toward the end of Dark Force Rising is one of the most, I almost want to say insulting coincidences, when Luke, Talon, and Mara are trying to escape the Chimaera and are gauging their options among a bunch of nondescript freighters in the deep storage of the destroyer. Luke is standing there as all of a sudden, when behind him, what should rise from a shaft in the deck on a lift? Oh, it's the Millennium Falcon! It even blows Luke's mind in the book (as if to soften the ridiculousness of it to the reader). But it really doesn't matter if this is the best example, as coincidences of this magnitude occur frequently throughout the books.

Now, the genius of Zahn is that, technically, most of his coincidences do follow a logical progression from events set up earlier in the book. He isn't really pulling rabbits out of hats here -- he's an incredible competent writer. However, it really can't help but feeling incredibly artificial at times, nonetheless.