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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Thrawn Trilogy: Overrated?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by slimybug, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    At the time, the Thrawn Trilogy was the closest thing on paper to a new Star Wars film that we had. It still is, in fact. Zahn had a difficult task of creating a new and interesting storyline, worthy of the name of Star Wars – and without bringing back the dead, too. He needed to create new villains that made sense and were just as threatening, and heroes that explained why they weren't involved before. But the mirrors to the OT was just another thing that made these books great, mind you. It was something that Lucas consciously did in the OT and PT.

    Each book opened with a Star Destroyer reveal, a hunt for the heroes in the middle, and contained a space battle near the end. Thus the books mirrored the OT. But it doesn't end there. The heroes win in the first, somewhat lose in the second, and win the war in the third...or at least we think they do. ;)

    The mirrors is why I think the books are the best in Star Wars literature. Both trilogies resemble each other, and Zahn had the brains and courage to do the same for his. How many authors can say that?

    It's all in the new characters. They're the reason for Zahn's success and what makes these books so great.

    Let's start with the villains, first...

    Thrawn. Grand Admiral Thrawn was just as cool and menacing as Darth Vader and the Emperor; from his tall stature, pale blue skin, glowing red eyes, and bluish-black hair, we're given a cool and calculating villain. The white imperial uniform gave him style, too. He not only looked the part, but he was also able to build a reputation that instilled fear in everyone that knew him, or knew of him — and that's without having the Force as his ally. Sure, his overconfidence in his plans and trust in his minions lead to his downfall. But how is that any different from the way everyone else had died?

    Jorus C'Baoth was just as interesting, too. Here we have an intimidatingly tall, disheleveled looking, white bearded and muscled human Dark Jedi, who may or may not be the man he claims to be. He was not only insane, but intelligent, too. Sure, he was naive and lacked patience as a child would, but that's all a product of him being a clone. In the end of it all, it was Thrawn's and his inability to work together that did them both in, which made it another mirror to Vader and the Emperor's demise.

    Captain Pellaeon. Yes, he might have been seen as more than the typical imperial star destroyer captain in the later books, but he had the fortunate opportunity to be fleshed out in these novels that the other Imperials had not had. He remained a loyal advocate for the Empire from beginning to end, but to me, he wasn't anything more than any other Imperial. But still, he reminded us that the Empire had not been completely defeated, and that he and his kind believed there was still a chance they could win back the galaxy under Thrawn's leadership.

    The Noghri. A vicious alien race that is honor bound to serve the Empire. Vader's legacy is again felt by the heroes as they cope with this species that was fooled into helping their enemy. The Noghri were the perfect assassin, as they were trained in this primitive tribal society that uses steel weapons and cunning and stealth to carry out the Empire's will. Eventually, they were convinced that they were being used and turned against their master.

    Niles Ferrior. A pirate, and mercenary if you will, that not only amuses you with his witless tactics, but surprises you when he does succeed. He was the typical brute who tried to betray everyone to the Empire, but was outsmarted by the one man that the Empire tried to force over to their side, too.

    The heroes...

    Mara Jade. Star Wars needed another main female character, and so Zahn provided it. Well, anyway, everything about her is well known — and even if you didn't read about Mara, I'm sure someone might have told you about her. She's a great character, with so much that makes her interesting. A former agent of the Empire, she was trained to be a killer since an adolescent. Her Force sensitivity was only harnessed to a certain extent, but her skills in being a spy and assassin made her nonetheless dangerous. Her background remained a mystery to all, including her employer, until she met up with the one person that she was commanded and sworn to kill. But in the end, she knew that she was brainwashed by the Emperor, much like Vader had been, and was able to free her mind from the chains that her former master had imbedded in her head.

    Talon Karrde. He was as smooth as Lando, and as crafty, too. Talon was a smuggler chief that had the mindset of a businessman, and always tried getting what benefited his organization — as long as it kept them out of the war. His honor in fulfilling a promise, regardless if it brought in no money, is what made him a better character in the end. Although he wanted to stay neutral in the beginning, he knew that things had to change if his smuggler ring was to still exist. After all was said and done, he became a hero, and still managed to retain his dignity of being a freelancer.

    And last, but not least, Talon Karrde's smuggling gang. All the members seemed like they all had a purpose for being there, and they all proved valuable when Karrde decided to get involved in the war. Aves, Ghent, Torve, and so on, all contributed when it mattered, making Karrde's group pretty cool when they did.

    Yeah, sure, there were coincidences. But aren't all stories like that? There were also reasons why the characters would meet in those circumstances, so it wasn't all forced contrivances. The story is still great and well worth reading every so often. I look forward to reading them, again. :)
     
  2. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Hmm, it's been asked before but not much in the way of answers given: Over-rated compared to? Or does "overrated" simply mean "I didn't like it so all those people who did must be wrong"?
     
    Chewbacca89 likes this.
  3. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Is Thrawn even a villain anymore though, it seems Zahn has changed him to a misunderstood tragic her, complete with his own love story.

    This from Choices of One:
    " Thrawn smiled...... and to Car'das amazement there was sadness in the others normaly calm expression. Because he said quietly your the only one I can trust.
    Car'das stared at him, some of his own self pity fading away into a fresh pool of shame. Thrawn had left everything, his home his people, his prestige his life. He'd dedicated himself to protetcing the civillised parts of the galaxy against Pirates, Warlords and distant nameless nightmares that Car'das could barley imagine.
    And yet in the end all that work and sacrifice had come down to this. The greatest military mind of the age, with only a singe solitary, worthless man whom he could trust. "I'm sorry" he said quitely."

    JediBen I don't the think the TTT was overrated and you can only really compare it to other EU books or other Zahn books specifically.
     
    AusStig likes this.
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Nice line, but he's still a villain!
     
  5. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Yes he should be, the same way Mara did not simply go after bad people, but in both cases Zahn says otherwise.
    Now while people say Pealleons worship is from his POV as an Imperial, how on earth can that be said from Car'das Pov.
     
  6. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    To be honest with you, I didn't like the other books — the dualogy, especially. It seemed like they threw a lot of money at Zahn, and he just wrote whatever. It felt like an EU book. The one thing I didn't like was: in the TTT he hinted that Thrawn was half human, and now we know he's a pureblood alien. It kind of ruined it for me, knowing that he was just some brute that his people had exiled.
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    So you believe everything Zahn says?
     
  8. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    It is a bit overrated, but it is really good still. A give it an A-, but not the shattering A+ that a lot of people like to give it.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Personally I like that, beneath the sophisticated and carefully cultivated veneer, Thrawn's a thug and psychopath.
     
  10. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

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    Jan 2, 2000
    Where do you think he was not telling the truth when it comes to Thrawn and Mara ?
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Just because he says X isn't cause in and of itself for me to buy it. Zahn believes in his view, I believe in mine!

    Plus, none of that quote says "hero" to me, what it lays out is someone with a set of aims that he will do anything in furtherance of! Anyone can have noble ends, but it's how you go about achieving that defines a person. In this respect, Thrawn is, and always will be, a villain by his own choice.
     
  12. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I've always assumed it meant that the general public estimation of it exceeded its actual quality.

    Overrated doesn't mean bad, just not as great as everyone says it is.
     
  13. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    That assumes that in this particular area there can be anything approaching an objective measure, I'm very sceptical of there being any such thing.

    As to your second line, it can be read as a veiled insult to those who greatly enjoyed it, better just to say you didn't like it and leave it at that!
     
  14. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I'm just providing a definition, not my opinion.
     
  15. GreatBeyonder

    GreatBeyonder Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2013
    I was about to ask a similar question. Star Wars is not what we think of serious literature. Star Trek will often attempt it on occasion, but Star Wars is unabashedly a space opera with sci-fi thriller elements and some bits of fantasy tradition. I don't think I've ever learned anything about myself or other people by reading or playing a Star Wars story, but I still enjoy it when they treat me as a thinking human being who appreciates a bit of sophistication in his adventure stories.

    So no, I don't know what its being compared to. Other Star Wars stories of the time? I don't think so, especially as the early Bantam years are VERY hit and miss, except perhaps Stackpole and Allston's work. The movies? Perhaps, though I still get shivers up my spine whenever Darth Vader walks on screen and James Earl Jones' voice scares everyone poodooless. The modern SW stories are pretty well-written in comparison. with John Jackson Miller, James Luceno, Troy Denning, (Tatooine Ghost, anyway) and Matthew Stover standing out in my mind.

    Still, at the end of the day, I wholeheartedly recommend this trilogy to anyone who has never read them, and firmly believe while its silly to declare it the BEST the EU has to offer, they are still pretty the best quality silly popcorn sci-fi one can ask for.
     
    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR likes this.
  16. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Sounds insulting to me.
     
  17. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The problem is simply: Who determines what is the "deserved" status for a work? There is no such authority on this whatsoever! (Nor should there be!)
     
  18. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 25, 2012
    Obviously the OP....
     
  19. ILNP

    ILNP Jedi Knight star 1

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    Apr 12, 2011
    Being trained and bred for war is vastly different than being supplied for war or even battle. The problem you're not seeing is the logistical side of moving a large formation from point A to point B in such a way as to be prepared for battle when they arrive at point B.
     
  20. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2012
    ILNP I assume, like me, you have military experience? I don't think anyone outside the military will understand what your trying to explain.
     
  21. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    My point was, I don't like how he changed him from a half human to a pureblood. The exile part was cool, I guess.
     
  22. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Sorry, that post was in response to F4 rather than yourself.
     
  23. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2002
    Oh...:)
     
  24. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I think you've both just identified the likely reason for why Clone Wars: Jedi Trial was written! ;)

    Quite seriously, I disagree military experience is needed to grasp INLP's point, but it is a subtle one.
     
  25. GreatBeyonder

    GreatBeyonder Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 6, 2013

    *is prior military* Yhey showed the clones training and having equipment, but the issue I've always had is that the Republic doesn't even know it exists... so who the hell is paying for it? Who is going to continue paying for it? Is the Republic prepared to feed and house all these clones, who don't appear to be slowing down in numbers. Who built the ships? Who made the armaments? Are the Kaminoans the galaxy's most successful arms manufacturers as well. There are so many logistical issues and plot points that still puzzle me and I think GL just left to the EU to sort out. (as always)