Lit Thrawn Trilogy: Overrated?

Can you explain that to somebody that don´t get what you are referring to, bitte

 

Aj, aj, aj. To be so smart and jet so dumb.

Thanks

 

I generally really liked the Thrawn Trilogy, maybe because it was my first real venture into the Star Wars EU and I was riding on waves of nostalgia. Here's what I didn't like:

• Thrawn's thing with the art was incredibly telling and not showing. There was no analysis of a particular piece of work whereby the reader could understand Thrawn - in many respects the proxy for the reader is Pellaeon - and how his mind worked. All we saw was "this is Bothan art, so therefore they will use this strategy". If there'd even been one explanation of how Thrawn drew his conclusions, it would have made his skills realistic rather than hollow, and then his failures would have seemed more real than just 'well the good guys have to win, so... they're winning'.
• I found the concept of the Katana Fleet really rather dull. Dark Force Rising was especially boring because of this
• Luuke. Just... No
• Luke drinking hot chocolate in Heir to the Empire

What I did like:

• Talon Karrde and smuggling in general as being an important part of the story
• The way Zahn writes about things and has the characters draw conclusions with a drawn-out process, rather than chunks of exposition-y writing. His writing style is very show-don't-tell, even if his writing of Thrawn's strategic analysis isn't
• I kind of liked the way Thrawn was more of an intense thinker 'warrior poet'-esque opponent rather than raw power (Vader) or evil (Palpatine). Again, this would have been a lot better if my other criticism were addressed
• The relationship between the Big Three and how much it felt like a 'sequel trilogy'. I like what was done with Lando, too

 

has anyone counted the snorts?

 

I'm a bit biased in that I really enjoyed the Thrawn Trilogy, but i think everyone has made some good points.

In my opinion, the books do an excellent job of offering a continuation to the original films, which was exactly what I (and probably others) was looking for when reading them. In fact, they were the first Star Wars books I read, and initiated my interest in the EU.

From what I can tell from this forum, one of the major things people have a problem with is the showing, not telling of Thrawn's abilities. I can definitely see how that is a problem, although I did not notice it when I first read the book. When I read them (which was admittedly a long time ago in a galaxy far far away). I was younger and largely overlooked this flaw. Hopefully, I can read them again soon, and judge for myself.

The biggest show, not tell problem I had was with the art. I thought the idea of him understanding species psychology through art was awesome, and really helped set up the character. However, I really do wish at least a single example had been given as to how he was analyzing the art. Aside from that, I felt that his plans greatly helped show his intelligence. But then again, it has been a while since I read the books.

Another problem people seem to have is the incredible number of coincidences. I, too, found this to be a huge annoyance, and I think it actually amplified the show, not tell problem. It seemed like each time we are about to be shown Thrawn execute a beautiful plan, a coincidence helps the heroes.

After having read through people's thoughts, I think a book (or a few) about Thrawn serving the empire would be great. He's a popular character, and it would be nice to see him develop into the genius we are told he is.

 

There is some analysis gone into in OBF (Outbound Flight), ISTR.

 

That "that understand a species psychology through art and therefore be able to beat them" business is nonsense pseudoscience, I'm sorry. Even for Star Wars, hell it's even more egregious because it tries to apply harder sci-fi concepts but it's just so... wah?

What if the dude making the sculpture is a social outcast or cultural maverick? What if the species isn't a bunch of hidebound robots deterministically tethered to one culture? Thrawn would be screwed if all he had on us was Van Gogh. It just seems like a weird way of making Thrawn seem smart and cultured and a tactical mastermind in one fell swoop.

 

Seeing as we've never met another sapient species- how are we to know?

Mind you- I suppose someone who's studied elephant and chimp art, might be able to tell us in the not too distant future.

 

It probably should say something for this series that I stopped trying to get through Dark Force Rising last night. I'm not saying the series is bad. I think that of any EU material this captures the "feel" of the OT best. But for the purposes of my reading entertainment, something wasn't clicking in the moment. I actually moved on to start Vector Prime, an inferior book by a lesser author.

 

So Zahn makes the coincidences logical but the coincidences are rediculous? I'm not following your logic here.

 

Umm, yea, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. yep and i gave mine. is that a problem?? Anyone who read them when they came out fresh, liked them. maybe to a young adudience they don't read as well

 

No. I just wondered why you felt the need to shout at the critics that Zahns books are the greatest literature in the universe. As if us disliking it somehow invalidated your opinion.

 

For "an inferior book by a lesser author" try 'Crystal Star'.... if you dare!

 

i don't remember shouting. i did capitilize one word as emphasis. while everyone was talking about it being overrated, i thought i would bring a positive opinion on it. When it first came out (the series) we had not had any literature at all since 1981. It was a breath of fresh air as this was the birth of the eu. Some may not realize on here that the Thrawn trilogy was the first eu series ever. It was a big deal when it came out, and we all loved Thrawn as a new villian.

 

Fair enough.

 

when i say we, i mean the prevailing opinion of star wars fans, if you don't like the novels that is fine. To each their own, but most likly you don'y like it because it was overhyped.

 

I've always found the coincidences in the Thrawn trilogy, were much like all the coincidences in the OT. Upon landing on Tatooine, Threepio and artoo part ways, and head in completely opposite directions. Yet, they both end up being captured by the same slow moving jawa sand crawler, which just happens to take them, against their will, to the would be padawan learner of the man artoo is trying to find, in order to be sold. Coincidence? Majorly. Of all the people in the galaxy, the first two humans artoo interacts with in ANH are brother and sister who were literally separated by solar systems at birth. Whether or not Lucas meant for them to be related at the time he was filming ANH is irrelevant. Of all the people in the galaxy, that's just how things worked out. Or how artoo escapes his new owners, heads out in a random direction while on bleak backwater Tatooine, and is only found by Luke, when he reaches the spot where Obi Wan just happens to be going out for a stroll in time to save them all from Sand People. I could go all through out the OT and point out coincidences like this, but I'll stop here. Coincidences play a key role in Star Wars, probably more than any other saga of movies.

As for Thrawn plotting strategy by studying art... it's a strange and creative way to make a character. Sure, it's unheard of, but not totally off the wall. Star Wars is a fictional universe where guys can move objects with their mind. But Thrawn's no jedi. Still, even with the human race, there are certain images that 99% of all humanity will think is ugly. There are certain actions, that 99% of all humanity will consider evil. As a serious artist, I would want my art to be as appealing as possible. Even if it's on a dark subject, there are certain strokes of a brush I would never make, because it would be too ugly, and ruin my piece. To use that as a philosophy on how 99% of humanity would react to any given situation is still stretching it. But what if Thrawn, a military commander, could relate that knowledge to how other military commanders would react. He already has something in common with them by the sheer fact that they share the same occupation. Perhaps Zahn could have gone more in-depth explaining Thrawn's uncanny insights, but I think doing so would have hurt the pacing of the stories. The problem part of it was that Thrawn often used this "power" of his to employ a 100% fail-safe solution to a space battle. No plan or tactic is absolutely fail-safe. Unforeseen factors are always involved in such a complicated situation as a space battle.

Still, the Thrawn Trilogy was great, and one of the few Star Wars books I consider worth reading. Reading many of the others was like watching a soap opera. Some were just plain boring. But the biggest offense most Star Wars books have is that they overly exaggerate the powers of the jedi, and they focus too much on the jedi. Seems to me, a lot of people complain about the PT for just those same reasons.

 

I've had to restrict my re-reading of my PB copies -- for fear they'll fall apart!

 

Not a bad analysis Jello, but I don't think we can blame Isard alone, as there plenty of factions and warlords eager to tear the Empire apart.

In fact, Palpatine designed it that way - he promoted ambition over competence or loyalty, he set multiple organizations with overlapping responsibilities to encourage rivalry, and he never bothered to create another way of determining legal succession after disbanding the senate.

Though I do have to wonder Jello - if the core worlders were really so loyal to the Empire, why did they surrender so easily? Why were there so few instances of uprisings against the New Republic?
Did they truly believe in the cause of the Empire, or did they lazily go along with whoever was in power?

 

i was just trying to say that at the time, most readers really liked the series.

 

The original Thrawn trilogy holds up well. Yes you could quite literally cut out chapter 17 in Heir to the Empire and it would make no difference to the story, or ask why Luke was not more mad at Karrade for kidnapping him and yes having people cock eyebrows while saying Point is annoying and Mara take out both clone Luuke and C'boath, which was a bit much but it does not detract from a good fun series which felt like the OT and breathed new life into Starwars.

Since then Zahn has gotten progressively worse while his ego got bigger at the same time, so that he produced Alliegance and Choices of One, which should both be despised as terrible bits of writing (I will not even use the caveat attempts off), with the elevation of Mara and Thrawn, the denigration of both Vader and Luke, and Zahn copying and pasting scenes and moments in previous works.