Full Series Through a Different Lens ? Interpreting ?The Clone Wars? Realistically

One of the things which has always helped me appreciate the series more is interpreting it partly as a realistic story. By this I mean, often when I view an episode for a second or third time, I subconsciously attempt to interpret it as a realistic story as it is ultimately intended to be. I feel that this removes the layer which we can sometimes mistake this series as ?childish? and put it into a wider perspective (although the series has been moving away from any ?childish? factors more and more now).

This thread is for a number of things:

Firstly a discussion about how realistically interpreting the series helps you appreciate it, or if on the contrary, you never interpret it in such a way.

Secondly how much of certain things in the series are we meant to see as stylised and how much is to be interpreted as a genuine realistic appearance. For instance are the Jedi robes we see in the series with no sleeves actually meant to be seen realistically, or are the robes just stylised interpretations of the sleeved robes we see in the films.

And thirdly how do you interpret certain characters and environments and how much do you take literally or as a stylised representation? In the instance of a character I have always viewed Satine as looking somewhat like Cate Blanchett when realistically interpreted.

If someone?s willing we could even have artwork of certain characters and episodes in a realistic form.

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/f/fe/Ahsoka_nonCGI.jpg]
[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/3/3a/Wullf_Yularen_TCWCG.jpg]

 

Just to make it clear, when you say "realistic", you mean as if it were a live action film such as the hexalogy, right?

 

Precisely.

 

Actually, I sometimes do it the other way around. On several occasions, when frustrated about some of the writing shortcomings of the animated series, I've considered what I would think of the films, specially the prequels, if they had been presented to me as just another Clone Wars episode. When looking at it in this light, I saw that the CW is really MUCH MORE similar to the prequel films than you'd otherwise think. They both suffer from pretty much the same shortcomings in terms of dialog and plot structuring, but the fact that the prequels are "realistic" somewhat attenuates this.

 

I can't really agree with that.

The huge difference between the series and the 6 movies is the scope of it all. The story of the movies is so much more meaningful... it all ties together to tell one huge epic tale.

In the series, fun as it is, there is nothing much to tie anything together except for Ahsoka's character development, and even that is marginal at best. The adventures are fun, but the fact that they're all contained within one episode or one arc and then never heard of or followed up upon, makes for almost a complete lack of ongoing continuity and meaningfulness of the events.

This is largely due to the format of the series, but it's also the scope of the stories. We've been through 3 seasons of stories, but I honestly can't think of anything pivotal that happened which ended up making a huge difference for the course of events.

The series is pretty realistic for my tastes. I don't think my appreciation of it would change much if it would be a live action thing.

However, there are small things that annoy me, such as in the movie; the duel with Ventress, when Obi-Wan is quickly hopping from pillar to pillar to get to the higher floor, as if he's freaking Spider-man. This is something you'd never see in live action, and every time they do these kind of moves in the series, it annoys me. Why not make a big Force jump? Plo's huge Force jump in Wookiee Hunt seemed exaggerated, but at least it wasn't as ridiculous as this 'wall hopping'. They do it in 'Defenders of Peace' too, if I'm not mistaken. Bah.

 

Of course I'm not talking about the movies as a whole, just looking at some of their individual scenes, and how they could easily be part of a TCW episode. It's easy to see how a scene like the droid factory or Anakin and Padmé's mushy Ep3 love talk could be directly reconstructed in animated form and inserted in a TCW episodes and it wouldn't feel any different than any other episode in the series.

 

Even though this is off-topic I thought I would address this.

I agree with this partly. But then again that is the ultimate point of the series... to fill in the gaps which the wider Saga doesn?t need to show. However I do think it contributes to the Saga in its entirety despite the fact it doesn?t have much weight on the overall story.

However in some regards I would argue suttle things in the story have a greater weight with the overall Saga. Ultimately you get further character development on various characters and their relationships. A key instance of this would be Anakin and Obi-Wan as well as Obi-Wan?s development through his relationship with Satine. I also think that the Mortis trilogy has some weight... ultimately the Mortis experience confirmed for Anakin his responsibility as being the Chosen One. This solidifies the fact that Anakin knows that he is the Chosen One and it is not merely a ?myth?. As such he carries the weight and responsibility with him... something which adds a slightly extra dimension.


Anyway in regards to realistic interpretation I know what you mean about the animated characters doing things which are difficult to imagine in animated form... something which is minor, although sometimes distracting.

 

Right, I see what you mean.

Sorry, it's a little late... er, early, here.

 

I'm gonna hijack your comment here for a moment...

I like the massive Force jumps, they're fun. As long as they don't get completely ridiculous, I'm good. I'm even good with some ridiculous moments, as long as they are rare and done well.

Remember Obi-Wan when he got separated from Qui-Gon and Maul? That leap was like 50 feet and he covered the distance in about 0.2 seconds.

Same thing with Luke back in ESB, when he leapt from the carbon freeze chamber he looked like he was shot out of a cannon, only the ceiling got in the way. "Impressive. Most impressive." That was always one of my favorite moments as a kid.

I don't have a problem with amazing Force leaps, because it started back in ESB.

The wall hopping isn't unbelievable, it just doesn't feel very Star Wars. Like you said, it seems more like Spider-Man.

 

I don't think the wall-hopping is something they can't do in the films, it's just something they never happen to do in the films, like how R2-D2 doesn't happen to be flying around ever in the OT. I don't think a Jedi Master would have difficulty with that feat. I'm still waiting for Mace Windu to pull all the nuts and bolts out of a droid so it collapses and then tear through a bunch of droids with the nuts and bolts with the Force like in the old Clone Wars.

 

Too bad this doesn't work at all- in ROTS it's so clear no one knows he is Chosen One- they just have the prophecy and think he is that guy mentioned there....... Mace:"So the prophecy says." Yoda:"Prophecy misread could've been!" Obi-Wan: "Come on guys what about this whole Mortis stuff?!?!?!?!?!?We have solid proof he is the Chosen one!"

Does Obi-Wan say so... no he says:
"It was said you would destroy the sith not join them!" Nah no mention of Mortis there either- neither did "Father say anything".... it's prophecy mentioned there- no Mortis......

It couldn't have happened in moviecanon really- they need some kind of retcon to that "It was just a vision young Obi-Wan" "I almost believed it was real Qui-Gon..."
something like that if they try to claim it works with movies since it doesn't.......

 

Huh?

It has been solidified for Anakin personally that he is the Chosen One. Visions in the Force don?t just occur for no reason, and the metaphorical vision he, Ahsoka and Obi-Wan all saw demonstrated to Anakin that the Chosen One is no longer simply a myth but it is rather a reality which he will inevitably have to fulfill. The point is that he knows

Furthermore, the reason Mace and Yoda are skeptical about Anakin being the Chosen One is because they did not experience the metaphor of Mortis. Naturally they are unsure and unwilling to place all of their faith in the metaphor. Besides the metaphor doesn?t really detail Anakin destroying the Sith nor does it outline the events Anakin should be following? in retrospect we know the correct path which should have been taken, however to the characters they do not exactly know how Anakin is going to bring balance. Mace and Yoda are not really saying he isn?t the Chosen One, but rather that he is to destroy the Sith; that is what may be uncertain and misread. Obi-Wan, in contrast, seems to be almost enforcing the ?reality? of the Chosen One prophecy in destroying the Sith? to me it seems, from Revenge of the Sith, that Obi-Wan is confident in the metaphor he experience has made the prophecy definitive and likely involves the destruction of the Sith? further compressed by his believe in Anakin and the memory of Qui-Gon. There is no reason for him to mention Mortis at any point? to him and Ahsoka and Anakin it is likely a vision created within the Force, in some realm or sub-reality, which confirms and demonstrates the prophecy and that Anakin is the Chosen One. He need not refer to the metaphor shown, only the prophecy which it confirmed.

The point is that Anakin knows that he is the Chosen One? something he personally doubted. He now has this burden and certainty of fulfilling something?

In regards to Qui-Gon, there is absolutely no reason that Obi-Wan wouldn?t think Qui-Gon was simply part of the Mortis metaphor. In fact, given Qui-Gon?s placement within Anakin?s journey and the unlikelihood of him reaching immortality (something Obi-Wan wouldn?t really have an understanding of), it is perhaps more likely he simply regarded it as part of the metaphor. It detracts nothing from Yoda informing Obi-Wan of Qui-Gon?s immortality.

However let me guess your reply before you send it?

?Mortis is still a stupid story and doesn?t fit in with the Saga?

Nothing I say is going to change your mind, so why do you bring up this topic? or better yet why do I respond?




Anyway this is off topic somewhat. Here are a few things I would like to discuss in regards to the topic:

* Now that the Phase II clones have more realistic-correct belts are we to believe that the Phase I clones, when converted to realistic style, had different belts (i.e. pouches on hips).

* How do you interpret Satine realistically? What actress would she look like?

That?s the type of thing I?m talking about I guess?

 

You guessed wrong i was also about to write a terrible wall of text as a proof why it is so stupid and doesn't fit into saga - since it's obvious fact... at least from my point of view

But you're impenitent Mortis-lover (while that stuff clearly sucks ) so why to bother....... everyone must love Mortis or they are wrong.....you try to change my mind because you think I'm wrong oh of course i'm wrong I'm damned soul beyond your redemption- simply because i have an opinion that differs from your "right opinion"
I'm not trying to make you to change your mind i'm saying why I think it's not good i'm not saying you should think so- sorry if you get that impression you are entitled to your opinion you can love whatever you want- but i don't have to love the same things...... but for some reason you try to convert me infidel to be Mortis lover......

.....just lie to yourself and think it's great and fits in

fact is that without some kind of extra explanations there is several oddities between Mortis and ROTS (yes there is some in saga too- but no need to have any more)- why Obi-Wan don't use Mortis-experience as proof- a sign from the Force Mace and Yoda would listen to him if he tells about Mortis- will he tell in future seasons of this series... maybe... could be that it will be retconned to make sense and i stop whining..... still i am unhappy to their mortistrilogy no matter what you say - i've seen the episodes and i even tried to like them- i just couldn't- then i watched movies again- they were still great- something in Mortis just didn't work with me it seems.......

.... But it's George's and Filoni's own problem how to make it to fit in- are they going to retcon it or are they simply going to forget it....... as it looks now "Mortis is just a beginning" was just Filoni's advertisement trick since Mortis really was huge leap in animation- it looked impressive yes not saying that, and cool magic, nice voiceacting from Sam Witwer etc.....

And there is wall of text again
I wouldn't like to have a quarrel with you Phil - i think only thing we can do now is to grudgingly accept out differing opinions about that piece of sh..... cough.... i mean Mortis-arc

peace?

 

That picture of Ahsoka freaks me out. It really is the face. Just doesn't look right.

 

Its not that I want to ?convert? you to liking the Mortis Trilogy ? in fact I really couldn?t care less ? however every time the topic (in any regard or reference to Mortis) arises in conversation you insist on igniting a discussion about ?how terrible it is?. Then when I attempt to counter the arguments you repetitively reinforce I am accused of attempting to be arrogant and condescending in my opinions towards you. I offer my arguments yet you, in my opinion, continuously fail to counter them, instead relying on the typical ?just because? argument. In my opinion you continuously sidestep the key points I bring up. I give an explanation as to why the story is the way it was presented and I am given a ?I still think it should have been better?. I answer all your arguments, you seem to accept most, I answer your final one (regarding death of Father and the powers thing) and I a nullified response with little counter.

To be honest I think you have decided you hate it and no matter what I say you are still going to hate it. And that?s fine. However at the end of the day it is you who is igniting these conversations. I have no interest in imposing what I saw in the Mortis arc upon you?

Ultimately this isn?t a personal quarrel Swash and I have not intention of telling you what to like or not to like.

-DP

 

I watched it thought about it and I just didn't like it- it's something you cannot just decide i gave it a chance- it't true i didn't like the entire idea first..... just no SW-feel IMO- then Overlords was mainly positive surprise it was not that bad as i expected but then Ghosts really hate that with passion because it didn't make any sense..... it just doesn't work well..... i wonder what they are going to do with it and this Maul alive stuff really really problematic situation they have i would say....

anyway that's off-topic here i was bit aggressive maybe but that is not towards you or anyone but towards poor conclusion of that arc ..... i don't think Ahsoka pic is that freaky but not perfect liveaction version either......

 

Swashbucklingjedi: I totally agree with you about the Mortis arc.

DP: The thing is, you do seem to think that everyone needs to accept Mortis into their view of SW as a whole, and even consider it to be on equal footing with the movies. You have said as much to me a few times... most recently, in another conversation about balance of the Force and the Yin-Yang concept, you said this: "With Mortis (you must include it as it is now part of the ?concept?)...".

 

Enough with the Mortis talk, folks. This is not the place.

 

Sorry Gry, I?d just like to answer this and we can get back on topic if that?s okay.

EDIT - Sorry, but that is not okay. That was a warning about off-topic conversation, you can't just get one more word in afterwards. I'm PMing you the removed post, so you can repost it somewhere appropriate, if you'd like. - Gry

 

In the spirit of getting back on topic?

* With the Senate hallways they are noticeably small than the ones seen in AOTC. Are we intended to believe that the hallways were altered immediately following the onset of the Clone Wars, or possibly that Padme was placed on a different ?level?? Or is this a stylistic representation and, when interpreting it realistically, would the hallways be the same as those seen in AOTC?

 

I think different level possibility is good since Padmé's platform seems to change place anyway- now it's near to Orn Free Taa's while it was not in TPM for example i think(then it was Palpy's platform but anyway representative of Naboo)....

 

I think we have to accept that many of the things we see are stylized versions of "reality", and not meant to be taken as an actual change in a character or locale. Take Grievous, for example, do you think he was missing a couple of fingers of his hands throughout the Clone Wars?

 

Nuh-uh, missing fingers goes beyond 'stylisation'. Everyone else has the right amount of fingers. I can get behind simplifying Ki Adi's head, but missing fingers is mutilation.

 

Well why not? He is mainly machine and those parts can be changed- maybe they added more fingers to him later on- but then again he seemed to be against changes in Lair of Grievous though so i cannot say for sure- but i don't understand why they made him so inaccurate in the first place

I also don't get change in LAAT-gunships- they are different in TCW with double sidedoors- i guess that's not stylistic choice but also IU-fact that they changed LAAT:s to better armored models while old one's still were used (in fact ROTS looks only "old" ones with single sidedoors but well ...)

also all ships have different patterns- like droidfighters- in movie Vultures have cis-emblems on their sides but in TCW they have one emblem on their head- since they are destroyed and built all the time.... it's possible CIS-guys changed the paint job just for fun "this looks cooler more CIS-like"

Odd thing about MTT:s (we see brown MTT in ROTS while in TCW all are gray with blue stripes and symbols ) were partially explained in Sphere of Influence- "Neutral TF" uses old colors like that cheap brown paint (TPM-visual dictionary says it's cheap )-while ships and troop transports of CIS proudly wear blue stripes and emblems of CIS- for unknown reason though MTT of "neutral TF" was in hangar of the Invisible Hand ...... it can be that at some point TF looses it's neutrality status and colors used to identify neutral and CIS-aligned TF-property lost their importance- so both material were used mixed in CIS armies or after three years of war they were no more interested in painting everything to be blue or they simply had no money for more expensive blue paint...

Also Banking Clan Frigates have many kind of paint job in ROTS- some have giant CIS-Emblem and blue stripes and some have also vertical green stripes.... in TCW there is no green stripes and all CIS-frigates have CIS-colors and emblem... well if green stripes are from IGBC as wookieepedia says - does it mean IGBC also lost it's neutrality status at some point since same ships have colors of IGBC and CIS?in ROTS- some having only green stripes (like neutral Munificents of IGBC?) but still participating the battle apparently on seppie side....

ok small things but someone designed the models and i don't think he/she changed the paintjobs and designs accidentally- then could be they didn't pay attention and made inaccurate models without watching the movies closely......

In-Universe those colors of ships however are important- Republic cannot attack "neutral" TF-vessel without some kind of reason- but they can attack vessel flying in CIS colors because they are in a war with CIS- not with the Trade Federation that still sits in the senate and trades with the republic worlds and only behind the scenes Lott Dod and others plot with Dooku....

 

I have another one; Obi-Wan?s old clone armor is noticeable different than that of the clone armor worn by the Clones. Would you say that this would translate to Obi-Wan having different armor, or is this merely different stylistic representation of the same armor? Furthermore I guess we are to assume that the doors on the Gunships are to be taken literally... while they do not appear on the ROTS or AOTC gunships?

Yes, however there is stylisation and then there are set changes which dramatically change how we interpret the scenes into realistic form. The Senate hallways for example are often framed and positioned in such a way it is difficult to imagine the set being vastly different. Regarding your Grievous analogy, I guess that is the point of this thread. To determine what we should view as stylised and what we should take more literally. In my opinion the Senate hallways are almost impossible to interpret as they were in AOTC... whilst the Grievous hands are different and is stylistic.

So you are saying Grievous has different hands in the series? Alright how would you describe the clones elbow armor being attached to the opposite piece of their arm armor (i.e. not their bicep armor)? Would you say that this is different armor or merely stylisation? Furthermore how did Argyus press the button on the cell block if it is not stylised?