Amph Tim Burton: The Wizard of Odd: Now Disc. New "Dark Shadows" Photos

Or when the Batmobile is seen for the first time.

Yeah, this is by far the greatest design for the Batmobile that we've seen on screen.

And the scene/montage of the Batman driving Vicki Vale back to the Batcave after rescuing, with the Elfman score blaring over the speakers, is fantastic cinema.

And one thing that quite often gets overlooked is the multitude of PRINCE songs that run throughout the film. I love that "Trust" song that Nicholson dances it up to during the parade, and the song that plays while the Joker and his gang trash the museum.

"My balloons! He stole my balloons! WHY DIDN'T ANYBODY TELL ME HE HAD ONE OF THOSE......THINGS!......Bob, gun."

*BLAM*

 

Watching this again reminds me that Burton had a good eye for what Gotham City is, but had no feel for the characters. Gotham is the only character pulled off well. It's sutably dark and dingy, a city with a dark and twisted soul. Thats where he got it right.

The characters on the other hand...well...I have no love for the Jacker, and his Batman has the same personality as his Wayne, plus he seems to have no problem killing people.

 

Batman is an okay movie. Visually, it is good, but besides that I'm not a huge fan of the movie.

 

Re: Vicki Vale in the Batcave

As I recall Burton explaining it on the DVD commentary, he didn't realize it was such a big deal. And then because fans had such a reaction to that, the filmmakers added the line in Batman Returns where Bruce asks Alfred, "Who let Vicki Vale into the Batcave?"


The thing about Burton's Batman movies is that he wasn't making Batman movies directed by Tim Burton, he was making Tim Burton movies about a character named Batman. Some people see that as a fault, but I think his personal style helped the movies (compare to Joel Schumacher, who said on DVD commentary that numerous things were added to his movies because the studio wanted to sell toys).

 

And then because fans had such a reaction to that, the filmmakers added the line in Batman Returns where Bruce asks Alfred, "Who let Vicki Vale into the Batcave?"

I thought that was one of the funniest lines in that film.


The thing about Burton's Batman movies is that he wasn't making Batman movies directed by Tim Burton, he was making Tim Burton movies about a character named Batman.

I'd never thought of it like that before, but I would have to agree with that statement.

Joel Schumacher, who said on DVD commentary that numerous things were added to his (Batman) movies because the studio wanted to sell toys).

Sounds like he's making excuses and blaming others. His two Batman films buried the franchise.
Burton's touch was sorely missed.

 

Schumacher just doesn't have the same kind of creativity as Burton, not by a mile. And it's Burton's touches that make the first two great films.

 

I thought Keaton was just plain miscast; but it's still a better (by far) movie than 3 or 4.

 

One person that did a wonderful job, a thankless job, and showed
class even through the duds in this series was Michael Gough, who
played Alfred the Butler. A superb choice. And I'm sure Burton
was influenced to cast him considering Gough's long career as an
actor, especially in those Hammer Films of the 50s and 60s.

Along with Pat Hingle, he's the only actor to appear in all 4
Batman films of the 1989-1997 period. On December 23rd of this
year, Gough will celebrate his 89th birthday. He played Leo Tolstoy
in an episode of The Young Indiana Jones Chronicle's TV show and his
most recent work was a voice in Burton's the Corpse Bride.

His imdb data base page is incredible!

Urbane British character actor (pronounced "Goff") whose screen career has taken him from Tolstoy's Anna Karenina (1948) to Dr. Terror's House of Horrors (1965) to Batman (1989). Despite his Shakespearean training and extensive experience in the British theater, Gough can't seem to shake moviegoers' perceptions of him as the poor man's Vincent Price. The tall, gaunt actor appeared in top British films during the 1940s and 1950s, including Blanche Fury (1948), The Man in the White Suit (1951), and Richard III (1955), but he also slaved in horror movies such as Horror of Dracula (1958), The Phantom of the Opera (1962), Black Zoo (1963), Berserk (1967), Horror Hospital (1972) and in a series of mad-scientist roles, Konga (1961), The Skull (1965), and They Came From Beyond Space (1967). Not that he's renounced more serious endeavors; Gough has turned in expert performances in Women in Love (1969), The Boys From Brazil (1978), The Dresser (1983), Out of Africa (1985), The Age of Innocence (1993), and Wittgenstein (also 1993, as Bertrand Russell), to name just a few. Contemporary moviegoers may know him best, however, as Alfred Pennyworth the butler in Batman (1989), Batman Returns (1992), and Batman Forever (1995).


No wonder Burton wanted him for Batman. Along with Jack Nicholson as the Joker,
one of the best casting choices imagineable.

 

Good point there, that Burton wasn't making a Batman movie directed by him, but rather a Burton movie about Batman. Seeing it that way makes it a good exercise in seeing how Batman reflects Burtonisms.
But, having said that, I don't think Batman has aged well. Even back then in 1989 I had mixed feelings about the movie... some good memorable scenes surrounded by too much filler and hamming it up. And, sigh, Basinger?? A vacuum....
And the biggest problem is that the scenes don't quite come off as they should...
They have the right elements, but not the sense of action, exhilaration they should have...
but that end scenario in the belltower is still a favorite of mine....

 

Nicolson was a horrible Joker. He was the exact same that he was in all his other roles, the sarcastic angry person. Only a bit more maniac. The Joker isn't that. Watch Batman the Animated Series Joker, then compare it to Nicholson's. Mark Hamill's joker is perfection.

 

Batman Begins is a far better Batman film.

What Burton never touched on was that Bruce Wayne is Batman's secret identity, which is probably due to his proud statement that he'd never read a comic in his life.

Burton?s original "Batman" picture is a sumptuous, baroque visual epic that does not really work in terms of addressing the complexities of its central characters; there is far too much emphasis on Nicholson?s overly theatrical Joker, and not enough on Keaton?s Bruce Wayne/Batman, who in too many scenes comes off less as a brooding, enigmatic figure, than as a bland cipher. The expressionistic nature of the visuals is endlessly fascinating ? which is one reason I admire the picture ? but its interpersonal story is severely lacking in both humanity and dimension. This is, incidentally, a criticism that I find applies to several of Burton?s key works.

Conversely, "Batman Begins," directed by Christopher Nolan, is a riveting psychological piece with too many characters, too much plot and undisciplined action sequences.

The film gets most of its momentum from its thoughtful consideration of the psychological complexities which underlie the Batman mythos; "Begins" succeeds where the 1989 film failed, by embellishing its human conflict, populating its story with classically-formed, multi-dimensional characters who finally engage the viewer?s sympathies.

While the first half of the picture approaches brilliance from several angles, the film?s second hour unfurls awkwardly, as though director Nolan is finally unable to identify and maintain a tonal and incidental equilibrium in his sprawling narrative. The showcase action set pieces are too often lumbering and oppressive ? clunky editing and suspect design techniques undermine the effectiveness of certain passages, including a crucial car chase. Some more prudent conceptual decisions, along with another script re-write and/or some additional editing, might have been able to iron out some of these problems, thus elevating a very good film into the realm of a masterpiece. If the movie?s seams are showing, then perhaps that is something I can forgive in light of the film?s accomplishment?s elsewhere; "Begins" is a compelling, well-acted picture that supplants grandiosity with realism and in doing so expresses the wounded nature of its protagonist?s psyche.

Nicolson was a horrible Joker. He was the exact same that he was in all his other roles, the sarcastic angry person.

I thought that Nicholson?s acting was effective in terms of its operatic flourish, but the performance did not really seem to exist comfortably within the aesthetic parameters of the material; Nicholson?s Joker dominated the film ? and not in a good way ? because he effectively upstaged Keaton?s considerably less compelling Bruce Wayne/Batman. In that sense, Nicholson?s work was problematic.

Only a bit more maniac. The Joker isn't that.

I think there can be different interpretations of a given character; my basic problem with Nicholson is that he gives a performance so grandiose that the film buckles under its weight. Less is sometimes more, and I think Burton would have been well-advised to limit some of Nicholson?s maniacal excess in the picture.

Watch Batman the Animated Series Joker, then compare it to Nicholson's. Mark Hamill's joker is perfection.

I agree with you that Hamill was very good. But back to Nicholson ? his performance in "Batman" was actually quite a skillful one in many respects, but I?m not convinced that it was appropriate to the film that was finally required to support it.

 

Nicholson's Joker might not have seemed so distorted if Keaton's Batman had not been so narcoleptic.

 

Nicolson was a horrible Joker. He was the exact same that he was in all his other roles, the sarcastic angry person.

Gee, do you have to be so hardcore in your judgements? There are many ways to interpret
a role. James Bond, for example, has been played by various actors with different approaches. Hamill's Joker is perfect for YOU, but not necessarily everyone else.
The arts are not an exact science...differing opinions is what makes it interesting.

If Nicholson as the Joker was too far over the top for you, that's fine, I know a lot of people feel that way, but anyone that thinks Jack Nicholson has limited range hasn't seen a lot of his films. ABOUT SCHMIDT is a film where he is neither angry nor sarcastic. He's been making films since the sixties, he's one of the most talented actors ever. Have you seen him in EASY RIDER? Or MARS ATTACKS? Or CHINATOWN? Or REDS? He's done all kinds of roles.

My favorite Joker line is "never rub another man's rhubarb." Not many actors could sell
a line like that, and I always get a smile on my face when I hear it.

I think the weakest part of Burton's Batman was the script, but nobody says much
about it. Burton's Batman was a circus and a visual feast, and that was enough to make
it a hit, and put Burton at the top of the Hollywood A-List of directors.

After Batman, Burton could have asked to film the phone book and I think Warner Brothers would have given him a green light. He handed them a multi-billion dollar franchise.

 

I just remember what noise Burton's Batman made in 1988-89. Frankly, it's been too many years since I've seen Burton's Batman in it's entirety.

I can't even comment on Nicholson's performance, mainly maybe because I view the film as a pop icon beyond it's rage and desire to leave it stored back in 1989 or somewhere in the past. Some films you just don't want to relive the experience and some you'll never forget. I'll try to watch it some time soon.

However, at work today, during my lunch break they had Batman Returns and boy, does that film have Burton's signature written all over it. Thick and through. And that alone bent me out of shape, because I feel super hero cinema in the right director's hands has made such gigantic strides since then than this Burton self-referential piece.

 

Batman Returns sucked, and it nearly killed the franchise. I don't know why Burton seemed to forget that Batman needed to be dark, but also fun and adventerous like the first movie.

 

I thought Nicholson was perfect.

And while 'less is more' is a valuable philosophy, I'm not sure it's ever true in a Tim Burton film.

 

LOL, yes, Batman Returns is a bad movie. One scene I saw during lunch was when one of the Peguin's goons, the organ grinder with the monkey are running the miniature train through the Gotham streets and suddenly the shadow of Batman's iconic cowl with cape spread-eagle enfolds on the opposing structure. I thought 'what a dufus' if Batman is in the train's headlights how can he be atop the locomotive? Did I miss something.

Anyways, more importantly, the reason I mention this scene is it pretty damn well some up my thoughts on the older franchise. How pitiful caught in a most generic commiseration!

 

Sorry if I mischaracterized the quote. He wasn't defending himself by attacking the studio so much as saying, "Yeah, I thought it would be fun to put stuff in the movie for no other reason than to sell a toy."

 

I like Burton's Batman film even though it doesn't faithfully follow the comics. It has great performances,fantastic visuals,and an awesome soundtrack.

 

One thing I liked in the Bell Tower sequence was when they are in the stairwell.
Burton uses the famous simultaneous zooming forward, tracking backward shot that
Hitchcock perfected for VERTIGO. Nice touch.

 

Thats about the best Ive ever heard it put. Honestly, I didnt see the Batman movie I always wanted to see until " Batman Begins ". The others including Burtons, whose one of my favorite directors, dont even come close IMO.

 

What shot was this?

 

After the massive popular success of Batman, Burton was THE 1,000 pound gorilla in Hollywood.
He could do whatever he wanted. Edward Scissorhands had already taken form during
Burton's teen years, he had drawn sketches of the character. A typical, and in this
case "quintessential", Burton outsider type of character, the setting of the movie
reflects Burton's childhood, idyllic suburbia and a creepy old mansion right out of
Roger Corman and Hammer films. Including Vincent Price. Burton gave Depp his introduction to a lead role on the big screen, even though some were worried that a mere "TV" actor from 21 Jump Street could handle the job. The result, a charming if somewhat peculiar masterpiece. An offbeat fairytale featuring what many consider to be Danny Elfman's greatest score. Probably Burton's most personal film. Here's a summary of what can loosely be called "the plot" from imdb.


A modern day fairy tale which tells the story of Edward, the man created by an inventor, who died before finishing him and left Edward with scissors where he should have hands. One day when the local "Avon" representative calls at the historic mansion where Edward has been living alone, she takes him home to stay with her family. He has to adapt to the new life and environment that he isn't used to. Soon he shows a talent in cutting hair and hedges, and wins every body's heart. But life isn't always so sweet...

What did you think of Edward Scisshohands?

 

"Edward Scissorhands", for me, is the quintessential Burton film. It's the one where all of the elements which we've come to associate with Burton all came together in a cohesive whole for the first time.

A reality slightly off-kilter from our own. A great Danny Elfman score (I could listen to Edward's theme forever!).A terrific Johnny Depp performance that really put him on the map (Depp has always credited Burton as being the director who saved him from being just another teen hunk). Darkness covered in snow. Nightmarishly dark humour. The blond-haired heroine/love interest.

I love this movie. One of my favourites of all-time, and easily my favourite Burton film. I've watched it at least forty times, and EVERY single time i see the scene where Winona Ryder asks Edward to hold her, and he struggles to with his unwieldly hands, and then whimpers "...I can't", i just bawl like a schoolgirl.

 

EVERY single time i see the scene where Winona Ryder asks Edward to hold her, and he struggles to with his unwieldly hands, and then whimpers "...I can't", i just bawl like a schoolgirl.

Agreed! That's certainly an emotional high point of the film, there's an aching sadness to his dilemma and nowhere else in the film is his anguish and frustration highlighted in such
a personal way.

Along with Big Fish, I think "Scissorhands" is Burton's most emotional work.