Tim Zahn was onto a good thing...

I believe that Timothy Zahn was onto a good thing with his galactic brushfires them in the 'Hand of Thrawn' duology...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE NJO, but after this series, I think that the EU needs to take a break from the invader them, ie: Nagai, Ssi-Ruuk, Yuuzhan Vong...

Once there is relative, stable, peace, I would like to see the Republic then degenerate into a loose confederation, with ancient disputes once again erupting, with the Jedi going back to doing what they do best, focus on law, order & justice - instead of fighting war...

I think that this would open up for interesting storylines, involving the many created races and species of the GFFA that we already know and love.

The Bothan dispute in HoT was just a glimpse of the storylines that can be done in an effective, similar vein.

Who else would like to see stories like this after NJO?

Perhaps the story can jump a generation, with Ben Skywalker being the center focus?

 

A series as long as the NJO, with the same foes and conflicts throughout, is a bit much. It has to become point-counterpoint just to keep the conflict fresh. The Jedi develop this, the Vong counter it with that. The Vong develop this, the Jedi counter it with that. No one is allowed to have any lasting advantage because then the battles don't stay fresh and the war doesn't last long enough. I also feel like they are handicapping the Jedi, in power and knowledge, to make the story work.

So yes, I would love to see a few one- or two-part stories where we actually deal with the people that make up the GFFA instead of long story arcs dealing with the latest unstoppable invaders. Obviously some races aren't going to get along with others. Obviously some worlds are going to have problems they can't solve alone. Obviously they have to find a way to get everyone back in the Republic, and they really should create a better system of government. Obviously there will be some people who would oppose a new government structure and try to sabotage it, or oppose their world joining with the Republic and try to sabotage it.

It's an entire galaxy trying to be one big society and get everyone to work together. I don't think you need invaders to make things interesting. Just trying to get everyone in a fairly large group to agree on everything is a hurdle. An entire galaxy (or most of one)?

In my opinion, if you really want to tell us about the New Jedi Order, tell us about the New Jedi Order. Not the Yuuzhan Vong. The books should have been stories describing Luke's efforts to get the Jedi together, reign them in, recreate the Council, find a role in the New Republic. They should have saved the name 'New Jedi Order' for a collection of books that handle that subject, not a collection of books covering the Jedi in a shambles, the fall of the New Republic, and a new race of unstoppable biotech monsters from another galaxy. Call the books about the Vong invasion something else. There's no 'order', very little to do with what the 'Jedi' are actually about, and things are hardly starting to seem 'new' at this stage of the game.

 

TG, thats a great idea!
I think that once the Yuzzies are repelled that the NR will just fall apart, the Sith could come back and take over...theres a million bazillion storyline possibilites. I've told SEA my 'Theory on What Will Happen After the NJO'...it drones on for ages. Such highlights include Krennel coming back from the dead as a vampire, Jag Fel becoming a Warmaster, the universe exploding several times, and Moff Kohl Seerdon belching to recreate the universe. Its self contradictory with more continuity errors than you can poke a Genghis at

 

Thank you!

Finally, someone else who realizes Zhans incredible writing talent.
Yes, he was definitely onto something, and I wouldn't be surprised if after NJO your theory actually happens.

 

ZAHN! A-H, ZAHN!



I personally dont know if I'd enjoy a whole series of it, but might make an interesting backdrop

 

I think Zahn's ideas point more toward the "realism" Del Rey was going for with NJO anyway. In a realistic universe, you shouldn't have some huge army trying to take over the galaxy every ten years.

The idea of localized disputes and the Jedi acting as mediators once more would be very refreshing at this point. One quickly tires of having a nearly invincible foe in every set of stories.

Oh well, I guess we'll just have to sit back and see where they go with this...

 

I think that this would open up for interesting storylines, involving the many created races and species of the GFFA that we already know and love.


KJA tried to follow this up somewhat with YJK's stories...

 

The way to go is to copy the Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms franchise by publishing small story arcs (1-2 books) feature only some characters, with smaller threats. This would be a great way to properly introduce new main characters, offer development and growth, and expand on the galaxy without another war. Why can't there be simpler books covering political disputes, searches for Jedi artifacts, assasination attempts, breaking up slavery rings, etc. You know, smaller stuff. What a great way to see the New Jedi Order as we should have, by showing their various attempts to restore the flame as guardians of peace and justice. Only let's see it one situation at a time, not as a huge galaxy wide event.

 

Personally, I'll stick to the NJO.

 

Sinje Gawa wrote:

So yes, I would love to see a few one- or two-part stories where we actually deal with the people that make up the GFFA instead of long story arcs dealing with the latest unstoppable invaders. Obviously some races aren't going to get along with others. Obviously some worlds are going to have problems they can't solve alone. Obviously there will be some people who would oppose a new government structure and try to sabotage it, or oppose their world joining with the Republic and try to sabotage it.

These were the kinds of stories I was expecting to read about when I heard that there would be future books about the OT characters after VOTF. I certainly didn't expect another galaxy-wide conflict. I didn't expect the 25 years of struggle of Leia, Luke, and Han to rid the galaxy of the Empire; set up the NR; and resurrect the Jedi to be a total waste of time, energy, and effort.

As of the end of SBS, the galaxy and characters are in worse circumstances than they were in during the most desperate hour of the Rebellion. The characters are again homeless nomads; countless planets have been destroyed or changed beyond recognition; and the NR has pretty much collapsed. The NJO has made the events of the films and of the Bantam books almost totally pointless.

Sinje Gawa:
In my opinion, if you really want to tell us about the New Jedi Order, tell us about the New Jedi Order. Not the Yuuzhan Vong. The books should have been stories describing Luke's efforts to get the Jedi together, reign them in, recreate the Council, find a role in the New Republic. They should have saved the name 'New Jedi Order' for a collection of books that handle that subject, not a collection of books covering the Jedi in a shambles, the fall of the New Republic, and a new race of unstoppable biotech monsters from another galaxy. Call the books about the Vong invasion something else. There's no 'order', very little to do with what the 'Jedi' are actually about, and things are hardly starting to seem 'new' at this stage of the game.

EXACTLY! I just repasted what you wrote because I think it bears repeating, and because I feel exactly the same way. I too thought the NEW JEDI ORDER was going to be about the Jedi Order. Instead, we got total Galaxy and Jedi Disorder unfortunately.

 

I have absolutely no probs with the Vong storyline. If they focussed on the Jedi, people would moan about the others not getting used. They cant win.

My only worry would be if the next arc is the same. I personally would like to see someone like Zsinj appear, how he wasnt going for galaxy rule, just him. Especially if it was similar to X-Wing, where you saw the POVs of a few

 

The Gatherer, you are the first respectable poster on the boards who has agreed with my thoughts on this matter!(no offence to all those like me who are Nnot respectable)

Zahn gave us great oppertunities. A bothan uprising was undoubtebly going to happen if not for the Vong.

Tell me do you share the opinion that the chiss should be involved in a way. Remember Mara and Luke said the future was in the UR in VoTF.

 

I totally agree with your views, Sinje.

 

The Gatherer, you are the first respectable poster on the boards who has agreed with my thoughts on this matter!(no offence to all those like me who are Nnot respectable)

Gosh 'Dude what does it take to be respectable?

I've been saying mostly what The Gatherer said ever since I read VP.

There were so many ways the saga could have gone after Zahn's last 2 books.
KJA'a books could have served as launching point, telling the tale from the adults perspective, not the kids'.

But instead of we got the NJO


Maybe there is a chance to pick up the pieces of what will be left of the GFFA when then NJO ends.
Maybe then we will get stories that are more than brutal fighting and death.
Maybe we'll see more realistic government interaction.
Maybe there'll be more realistic interpersonal relationships between mature adults.
Maybe we'll get back to the grand epic feel of the movies.
Maybe SW books will be something I enjoy reading again.
Maybe.

 

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE NJO, but after this series, I think that the EU needs to take a break from the invader them, ie: Nagai, Ssi-Ruuk, Yuuzhan Vong...

Once there is relative, stable, peace, I would like to see the Republic then degenerate into a loose confederation, with ancient disputes once again erupting, with the Jedi going back to doing what they do best, focus on law, order & justice - instead of fighting war...

I agree. No more "big threat" for a while. We need to see a time of rebuilding, of building up something great, of working out the kinks that previously had only been glossed over.

Perhaps the story can jump a generation, with Ben Skywalker being the center focus?

I hope not -- that's where Jacen and Jaina and Anakin went wrong. Throughout the Bantam books, they were nothings, plot devices used to spur their parents. Then in YJK suddenly they have these traits -- Jacen's an animal guy and Jaina is like her father. Then in NJO they suddenly are very different again. We need to keep things moving forward to see Ben develop in a believable fashion.

 

So, what your saying Gatherer is make Post NJO like the Prequel Era books so far.

That could work and I'm starting to enjoy the Prequel Era mor than the NJO, which I thought would never happen.
Bur it would be intresting.

 

I'm kind of hoping after the NJO, they let the period of 30 ABY cool down a bit...I don't want to see the authors jump right into the new story...

I'd rather see a focus on the "Rise of the Empire" time period.

 

Child of Winds says...

As of the end of SBS, the galaxy and characters are in worse circumstances than they were in during the most desperate hour of the Rebellion. The characters are again homeless nomads; countless planets have been destroyed or changed beyond recognition; and the NR has pretty much collapsed.

I do so love it when a critic recognizes that the New Jedi Order has captured the spirit of the films!

Yes, I'm being a tad sardonic (Child of Winds is not actually saying this!). Seriously, think about what makes the original trilogy so much fun...a bunch of rough-hewn heroes fighting the "unstoppable" Empire against long odds. The movies wouldn't be the same without Luke, Leia, Han and allies fighting such a desperate battle. And like the first half of the NJO (up to SbS), the prequels are about how the galaxy evolved from an peaceful Galactic Republic to a fascist Empire that destroyed so much that was good about the Republic. Galactic-scale epic conflicts like the NJO lay at the heart of the Star Wars saga.

The NJO has made the events of the films and of the Bantam books almost totally pointless.

I don't believe this, any more than I would believe that the Emperor's destruction of the Jedi make the thousand generations of the old Jedi Order pointless. Luke still inherited the Jedi skills and wisdom accumulated through that long experience, and used that knowledge to redeem his father and defeat the Emperor. The victory by the "good guys" built on what came before. There is no fundamental difference in the NJO.

On the more general topic of what The Gatherer proposes...

Once there is relative, stable, peace, I would like to see the Republic then degenerate into a loose confederation, with ancient disputes once again erupting, with the Jedi going back to doing what they do best, focus on law, order & justice - instead of fighting war...

Possibly, but I'm not certain. My main problem is my fear that this approach would get old, and get old quickly, particularly if the major characters never faced any risk. A few short series, confined to 1-3 books, might be OK. But I'm afraid this approach would not have much longevity.

Personally, I would prefer an approach that keeps major characters at risk; allows for galaxy-spanning conflicts without necessitating them; and removes the focus from the Original Trilogy characters once and for all. We need to have stories in which major characters CAN die (not that they must!) or undergo trauma without sparking the kind of fan outrage that's dominated these forums for the past two years. Ultimately, the story needs to come first.

For that reason, I agree that moving the story forward a generation (or even more) is an excellent idea.

 

As of the end of SBS, the galaxy and characters are in worse circumstances than they were in during the most desperate hour of the Rebellion. The characters are again homeless nomads; countless planets have been destroyed or changed beyond recognition; and the NR has pretty much collapsed. The NJO has made the events of the films and of the Bantam books almost totally pointless.

I disagree that this is a bad thing. I feel that it was Zahn who lit the fuse on the New Republics demise when, in the Thrawn Trilogy, he thrust the politics of the galaxy into the forfront for all to read by introducing Borsk Fey'lya and his machinations which authors have carried through both the Bantam and DelRey books to the New Jedi Order, where we see the ultimate demise of the Republic, partially due to the greed and selfishness of her representatives.

Before I had finished Star by Star, I had heard about the fall of the Republic and the possibility of a new Rebellion, and I just groaned in disbelief. But having read Star by Star, I now feel that it is a good idea. The New Republic, as it stood from the Thrawn Trilogy all the way out to Vector Prime and beyond, was a poisonous mass politicians who were more concerned about themselves than keeping the government cohesive. Zahn got it partially right with the Camaas document, however, brush fire wars like that would be happening by the dozens, which it probably was.

Now, bear in mind that I am not slamming Zahn, but if no other author had mentioned galactic politics, the readers would have complained, because we were now deprived of an interesting facet of the Star Wars universe. But, since other authors jumped on the bandwagon that Zahn started, and brought the story of the conniving politicians to its (IMHO) logical conclusion, readers are again complaining, because they don't like where it went. Well, I very much feel that Borsk was 'in character' through out the New Jedi Order, as were the other Senators who hastened the demise of the New Republic.

I feel this is a good thing, because let's face it, for the past 20 odd years, the New Republic has been a complete and utter mess and did not work as a system of government. So, I view the happenings of the New Jedi Order as a way to reformat and undo was has been wrought in this time period and as a way to start fresh once the Vong and have been defeated.

 

Yes, ILLUMINATUS_JEDI - that is what I would like to see!

 

I'd like to see more Starfighters of Admuar type books, with a small cast of characters on a mission or in a story/plot that isn't terribly important to the galaxy proper, but just a good solid read.

 

YEAH! SPINOFF STYLE!!!

 

Yeah like "Jaina Loves Jagged"

 

I feel that the people in charge of the NJO has let the reigns slip a bit and haven't been able to recover fast enough to see that possibly they made a big mistake or boo-boo. Also, why is it that there always has to be a spy among the good guys who can never be found out and has the good guys believing that they got this 'ultimate plan or weapon' and can cause mass havoc onto the bad guys but then get their butts smacked with an even more devious device?

 

Gatherer, the developments you mention in your first post, are some of the things I was hoping we would see after the Hand of Thrawn duology. However, I'm not quite ready for Ben focused stories yet. I would like to see him as a minor character for now, where he can grow up slowly into a role, and be guided by his parents in a normal fashion instead of the way they handled Leia's kids.