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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Time limited, civil debate #1; Was Rey overpowered, relative to Luke and Anakin?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by CEB, Jan 26, 2016.

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  1. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    I think if you hated TFA, episode 8 won't make a lick of difference. But I think it's fair to suggest that if certain elements are intentionally left unresolved, it's not totally fair to make a final judgement on the overall picture until one knows the overall picture. That can of course cut both ways. TFA can be weakened by weak/ unsatisfactory exploration of those elements as much as vice versa. Equally, it's quite possible to love TFA without needing those mysteries resolved or explored just yet.
     
  2. Dameron

    Dameron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2014

    There's every possibility that Luke's decision will be revealed as a well-founded one with some good consequences as well as the bad. But they have dug a very deep hole in terms of his failure. No other Jedi, no more school, the First Order having risen after he left, Kylo killing Han, planet destruction, Leia openly saying she needs his help and not getting it. Dialogue that indicates he had his chance to reach Kylo, but blew it and now blames himself. The fall of the New Republic very possible. When you think about it, a lot of the future history that's happened since ROTJ is a reasonable progression. They really don't do a lot of "Oh yeah, like that would ever happen" stuff with the overall course of events... except that Luke Skywalker sucks. It seems very unlikely that they dug that hole and plan to leave Luke in that hole for two years just to undig it all and reveal him as a shiny white knight who did nothing wrong. That would mean basically everything that relates to Luke in TFA is giving us a 100% wrong impression. As much as I would want that to happen... what a lot of work for nothing, creatively speaking!

    We may well learn that Luke had good reasons for what he did, but it doesn't seem like the ST would destroy him so thoroughly if they didn't intend at least some of it to stick. He's not coming out of this clean.
     
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  3. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    Or, you could argue that the point of digging that hole for Luke is to give him a redemptive arc. Even then, it's hard to be certain either way, as there is still so much we don't know about what exactly happened surrounding Luke's departure. The samples I posted from the script describe kindness, torment and that he's really the galaxy's only hope. That doesn't read like someone they plan to portray as a cowardly loser for the entirety of the ST (to me, anyway).
     
  4. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    After reading these script excerpts, something stands out to me:

    So either:
    Rey was at Luke's island
    Rey can somehow via the force feel what Luke feels and sees there
    Rey is Luke
    [face_thinking]
     
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  5. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    Well, it's clear that Rey has had dreams/ visions of the island. Does that mean her future lies there, or was she seeing the past as Luke dreamed of it (IIRC) in WOAJ, or as Luke saw a city in the Clouds? TFA would suggest her future to me. The temple is linked to her destiny for sure (as the film makes clear at the end).
     
  6. JediKnightYJK

    JediKnightYJK Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jan 17, 2016
    I don't hate Episode 7? I Loved it! but does that mean I have to be happy about everything in it? Why?

    TFA is a good movie, the first 1 and an half hour is actually an A+ movie. The pace, the character development, the camera working... everything was entertaining and perfect. But the other half of the movie is a rushed plot and some actually failed to develop the character.

    Rey is an interesting character and a protagonist that fits Star Wars, HOWEVER, she never struggles (at least in episode 7)
    There is not one single moment in the movie that she needs someone to help her out, Not ONE.
    What we learned from this movie is that Rey is a very fast learner and no matter how bad the situation gets she will somehow get over it.
    To be honest, she is the one that needs to teach Luke. Luke who sucked the entire OT(which was why he was a good character) even after being a Jedi Master he sucked that he needed to hide.

    Rey's powers went too far that even the main antagonist is just a loser cry baby. To me this is just sloppy writing... it just rushed to end the movie. They should of actually remove the StarKiller Base non-sense and use that running time to add more depth of Rey's abandonment trauma and getting her interest in the force making her motivated to find Luke and learn the Jedi way.
     
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  7. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    Satipo Yay, it is maybe similar to the visions Luke had in the WOAJ book.

    But another question, do you think it is impossible that Rey is Luke. I mean when you see what movie Rian did with 'Looper', which had both the young version and the old version of someone in the movie. Could this be the weird thing and is this possible at all? [face_thinking]
     
  8. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    No, not IMO. I think Rey is Rey. Can Luke have been watching her through the Force as Yoda watched Luke, sure. But I can't see them doing anything that reduces the lead's agency in that way.
     
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  9. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 24, 2013
    It is fair to judge it on the elements left unresolved if they were executed poorly. I judge TFA for TFA not for TFA and Episode VIII. I enjoy TFA, but I am willing to admit there are some execution issues with this movie. Those issues will be there no matter what happens in Episode VIII. A movie still needs to be able to stand up on its own without relying on sequels.
     
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  10. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014

    When I was 12, I remember reading that the company who did the Terminator 2 visual effects were working on a film called Jurassic park. My limited imagination and understanding of what it meant to hire the "same people" meant that I assumed it'd involve dinosaurs morphing into other creatures like a T-1000.

    I'm seeing a growing trend of people doing a similar thing when talking about directors for these films; people are literally thinking Rian Johnson will make Star Wars: Looper, (I've seen worries about time travel, talk of making people up to look like other actors) and Treverrow Star Wars World.

    The reason these directors have been chosen isn't "we want THIS story in a Star Wars film"; it's "we like the way this director has realised the screenplay, we like the tone of the film and think it shows an ability to convey tone well" (crucially, this could easily mean conveying a wholly different tone well)
     
  11. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 3, 2014

    It can stand on its own without sequels: without sequels it's a film where the force awakens in Rey, and the goodies win the day.
    It's actually the messily conceived suggestions of "the film should end with a draw, and a bit of an explanation about how Rey got her power and why Luke went away" that has more of a problem in terms of not standing alone.
     
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  12. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    I'm not sure I agree with that completely. Sure, the movie has to work for you on the whole. But you can't judge certain aspects fully until you know how they pan out fully - you can obviously judge them within the context of where they're reached so far, but you can't fully declare something to have succeeded or failed as a piece of storytelling if you haven't got to the end of that aspect of the storytelling. I guess you can say you don't feel the mystery was set up correctly for you in terms of wanting to know more/ care I suppose. But if the film heavily implies there is more to come on a certain element of the plot and characters, I personally think you can only truly judge when you've seen what they have in store. Sometimes they nail it, other times it wasn't worth the wait. I guess we'll see which category TFA falls into, but TBH, I enjoy TFA as it stands in the same way I can enjoy ESB without resolving what happens to Han Solo, or knowing who "the Other" is, or what the Hell happened to Luke's father to turn him into Darth Vader.
     
  13. SkooterNB

    SkooterNB Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2005

    Or Rey is a clone Luke via his hand from Bespin. [face_devil]
     
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  14. STARBOB

    STARBOB Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 11, 2002
    No wonder the saber called to her and the first place seen in the flashback is Bespin:p
     
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  15. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    yeah somehow this indeed makes sense. We have now a rumor that Thrawn appears in rebels, so what is next? A Luke clone who appeared first in Thrawn trilogy made out of his hand, but this time maybe at the side of the good guys. I wonder if Zahn gets credits/money if this happens. [face_laugh]
     
  16. SkooterNB

    SkooterNB Jedi Grand Master star 2

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    Mar 4, 2005
    He most definitely should get something for !@#$s sake.
     
  17. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    I'll be shocked if Rey is a clone of Luke.
     
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  18. AmySolo

    AmySolo Jedi Knight star 4

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    Jan 12, 2016
    But is there limitation to where they can show up? Cos we straight up see Anakin ghost it, why can't he pop in on Kylo?

    Come on brah, there's been common ground/acknowledgement of points. Those discussions tend to stop soon after, so they're easy to miss but they are there.

    You using those as speaking for the masses? Yikes.
    All the facts that have been shotdown repeatedly, you mean?
    I wish so much that they had kept his line "I've got nothing to fight for" in the movie, then people would understand why Maz gives him the saber & his actions after. It's still pretty evident to me but..

    Doesn't Finn actually get that credit? If she caused the fighter to crash without being shot, sure it's hers but he shot them both.

    Just felt the need to point that out. :)

    Conveniently, if he kills Snoke instead of Kylo doing it, Kylo is not Vader 2.0 & Luke has a BA redemption. Ofc Rey has to do something but if she defeats a fully powered Kylo in IX bingbangboom. (I don't want him to die cos I like redemption stories but I completely get him needing to because it's VERY hard to come back from killing one of the most popular characters ever to exist.)

    Quiet you. [face_phbbbbt]
     
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  19. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Since this was promoted as "Time Limited", we will consider this installment closed for the time being. Civil Debate #2 is underway HERE.
     
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