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Speculation Time Travel/Alternate Universe in the ST?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX - Spoilers Allowed' started by Bullhead CIty, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 1, 2012
    Based on your SW experience, the ST may have been a hit and miss so far. I'm sure that's an understatement for many.

    Personally, my biggest hang-up is the seemingly relentless OT character assassination. Let's be honest, it's been brutal. George had in mind the first 3 films as modern fairy tales. To see Han, Leia and Luke all depressively jaded later in life is hard to swallow. Really, Disney would have been better off setting this ST 100 years post-ROTJ; skipping the needless hero crushing.

    As I'm still digesting TLJ, a thought occurred to me:

    Before the acquisition, Lucasfilm was nearing pre-production of the edgy live-action series titled, "SW - Underworld". It was said that George himself had written over 100 episodes. There are quotes and snippets out there where George described writing all the episodes as cathartic and extremely satisfying.

    The rumored plotline was to have been a plot-device previously unused in the GFFA.

    Time Travel.

    I'm not claiming to be an expert on this. But, if memory serves correctly, the series was to be set during the ESB era of SW. A criminal element acquired a time travel device and murdered Anakin on Tatooine as a child. This being due to Darth Vader severely infringing on their activity. Thus the series would show the ESB era, the underworld so to speak, and things familiar yet different. The Emperor obviously had a different apprentice. Pockets of Jedi still active. Etc. It was SW without Skywalkers.

    After the acquisition, Lucasfilm made clear they wanted to use the ideas from this now defunct series.

    What does this have to do with 9?

    I'm not saying time travel EXACTLY is what we're dealing with, but what if - just what if... - the series thus far has been some weird alternate universe / reality we're witnessing? Maybe something substantial happened between 6 and 7?

    Going into Legends, weren't the Sith trying to alter or bend reality in some form? They just never achieved it?

    Whatever your take on the series so far, you have to admit we still do not completely understand Kylo Ren's motives or agenda. I believe the reason many are upset with Snoke's quick dispatch is because Snoke's backstory would be intertwined with Kylo; as Sideous and Vader respectively. Without Snoke, its hard to gauge Kylo's power and understand his motives.

    What if Kylo is good? Very good? But he's on a quest to right some event we have not yet been introduced to yet?

    Personally, I really do hope there is a more encompassing narrative than what has been explained thus far. It may just be wishful thinking on my part. It would indeed make us look at TFA and TLJ in a whole new light, to say the least.

    I'd appreciate your thoughts.
  2. PymParticles

    PymParticles Cruel but Fair Tyrant of New Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Oct 1, 2014
    I looked up the time travel thing regarding Star Wars: Underworld, and there was only one unverified source from Ain't It Cool News reporting that information. I don't think that actually would have been the premise of the show, and I definitely don't think it's going to factor into Episode IX, or anything else to do with alternate timelines/universes.
  3. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 1, 2012
    I agree that AICN isn't the best source of material. They have been the blind squirrel finding a nut on occasion. While I'm not basing my ideas solely on AICN's report - whether it's been verified or not - I mean, c'mon - we're talking about rumors here. Not facts. Those stories are intellectual property of Disney / LFL. Anyone would be hard pressed to find verified scripts. A fact that does remain is that the story group has said they wanted to use that material and other ideas of George.

    My premise is a "what if" we have this all wrong as an audience?

    And, there was a lot of basic plot information that leaked within weeks of the acquisition that has turned out correct so far. Then it was all silenced like the voices on Alderaan in Kenobi's head.

    I'm just hoping for a superlative narrative.
    rebelknight1 likes this.
  4. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 20, 2015
    There won’t be time travel in Star Wars. It simply doesn’t fit.

    The Luke projection was pushing things in my opinion.
  5. DarthHass

    DarthHass Jedi Master star 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    No. Please no time travel.
    Leave it where it works -- Star Trek.

    I couldn't handle the different universes.
    Blastaar likes this.
  6. panki

    panki Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 11, 2016
    I don't think we'll see literal time travel in canon....there is a type of time travel within hyperspace itself where lightspeed jumps are made to faraway destinations and shadows of other vessels can be spotted w/o collision...this along with a mention in the Han Solo comics of gates to places beyond time (from which things from the past can emerge and return) hypothetically something/someone could be stuck in a time warp and re-emerge years/centuries in the future (a possible explanation for Snoke, on the lines of Darth Rivan's time travel adventures in the EU?)....but I don't see the past itself changing.
  7. Jamtia

    Jamtia Jedi Knight star 3

    Apr 5, 2016
    Well I don’t think time travel is a possibility, not now, but I do think about the idea that everything isn’t what it seems and we may have it wrong.

    I thought of the idea of Kylo being a double agent. What if he was portraying to be bad/ has to turn to the dark side because he had to to get closer to Snoke to take him down and was working with Luke all of this time?

    Luke shut himself off from the force so Snoke couldn’t find him. Even the battle of Luke and Kylo was staged because they both know Snoke isn’t gone yet, and they have to play it off. Luke disappearing is just a disguise/trick.

    That would make it for the ultimate twist. If Kylos intentions weren’t to be bad, but had to turn to the dark side for some reason to take down Snoke, and I’m not even talking about in Epiosde 8. And it would come with consequences, destroying Jakku villagers, his father, his mother’s heart. But it would be the ultimate sacrifice to save the galaxy and maybe Han and Leia knew in advance what was going to happen.

    I’m sure you can find loopholes and reasons why that wouldn’t be the case in a million years but I’m just generalizing.

    I do think Kylo being the main bad is the real deal and was never working with Luke behind the scenes and staging to take down Snoke. Kylo had his own intentions. I do think the biggest twist they can do is have Snoke and Luke return and have them battle it out while Rey and Kylo Battle at the end. JJ can mimic Rian and play it safe by only focusing on Rey and Kylo, but that is too predictable.
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  8. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 7, 2016
    Whether Rian and Abram have been on the same page for these 2 movies it will be up to Abrams now to bring the 2 movies together for the next one.and try and make it look like nothing was wasted
  9. bluealien1

    bluealien1 Jedi Knight star 2

    Aug 14, 2015
    Time Travel no,Flow Walking into the past and watching things and or some one Flow Walking into the future...maybe.Flow Walking in case people don't know is the ability to see the past or Time Travel as some might call it.
    beware of spoilers for the EU
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  10. Hopeless

    Hopeless Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 28, 2006
    There appears to be 3 possible theories;
    1) Kylo travels into the distant becoming the First Sith and responsible for the Prophecy of the Chosen One, Rey would also disappear but ends up on Tattooine becoming Schmi Skywalker giving birth to Anakin thereby completing the loop this time travel creates thus resolving the Skywalker Legacy.
    2) Whoever finds themselves back in time manages to get a warning out about Order 66 but is thought a crank however the warning is remembered and one specific Jedi overheard the Clonetroopers mentioning it giving her the time necessary to allow her Padawan to escape.
    This is why Luke never knew about Kanan or Ezra because they didn't exist when ANH happened.
    That's why Tantive IV escaped the battle of Scarif yet in anh those plans were transmitted to it...
    3) whatever you mentioned above.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  11. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

    May 2, 2013
    Rey travels back in time and faces Darth Plagis and destroys him for real using something in the present ST timeline. Anakin is thus never born. She then hunt down Maul and poisons Palpatine. That is why she's Rey nobody because she'd destined to go back and press the reset button. Then, she ends up becoming the Sith lord and the jedi council (not in the PT era) have no Skywalkers to face her.

    Sure! Why not?
  12. mlsw

    mlsw Jedi Knight star 3

    May 30, 2017
    This is interesting.
    Before TLJ came out, I thought there was the chance of a TT plot, or to say it better a SW version of it (I'll come back to this later).
    Not because I particularly like it, but because of two things:

    1- That's what the 3 directors they've chosen (including Trevorror) have in common.
    2- The first line of TFA being "This will start to make things right".

    That said, I think TLJ is not a movie that adds point to this chance.

    But... I don't think we can debunk it once and for all, especially because JJ came back
    and because it could be a way to tie everything from 1 to 9.

    However, if they will ever go down this route, I don't think it has to be or it will be a proper sci-fi plot device.
    We won't see a time travel machine or black hole or something of this sort.

    It may be something more "mystical", that fits better the SW narrative.
    It's version of it.

    For instance... if they'll say that Anakin was created by Sidius and Plagueis, then
    the Chosen One prophecy will be turned out into a paradox.
    If it had not been written the 2 Sith lords wouldn't have been aware of it,
    they wouldn't have created Anakin and (in the end)
    the Sith wouldn't have been destroyed.
    That's a paradox.

    But more than that... what if the Chosen One wasn't supposed to come in the time and era he did?
    What if Sidius and Plagueis altered the course of events?
    Therefore... the true "Will of the Force"?
    What if everything we know, wasn't supposed to happen the way it did or it was
    the only way to restore in the end (ep. IX) the true Will of the Force?
    (and you may tie this to the first line of ep. I too:
    "I feel a disturbance in the Cosmic Force", because Obi Wan - and none of them -
    wasn't supposed to meet Anakin)

    I asked in another thread, if someone thinks is it possible that IX will end with Anakin
    second coming, just because of this weird/crazy idea...

    I believe there's the chance they could play with something like this.
    Not that I'm sure they are/will... I just think it's possible.

    And like I said elsewhere, it may rhyme:
    ep III: ends with the notion that Qui Gon returned from death (but he's not a force ghost).
    ep VI: ends with 3 force ghosts (a steep further)
    ep. IX. may end with another steep further... and it can only be a re-born Anakin.

    Add to that, that if all the known Skywalker bloodline (Luke, Leia and Ben Solo)
    will be dead at the end of IX... then it will really be to end it, to start it again.

    Or it may be, that everyone (every character from ep. 1 and the Jedi Order, the Republic, etc...) had to make a mystake, to fail, to be erased... to learn a lesson, the
    wisdom needed to give the C.O. not a second, but his true chance. The real one.

    I may like something like this as long as it fits the narrative, as long as it improves
    the story (1 to 9) and as long as it does using SW trops.
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    Bullhead CIty likes this.
  13. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

    Jul 22, 2004
    Neither Han nor Leia seem jaded to me in the ST.

    Han is as exuberant as ever, and more full of life and zeal than he was in ROTJ. He also is less jaded.

    Leia is battle worn, but still full of hope, still in the thick fighting for justice and peace.

    As for the rest of the OP? This kind of insane fan theorizing is part of the reason so many people are foaming at the mouth about RJ's approach to TLJ. None of that time travel crap is going to happen in IX. None of these stupid "Snoke is Mace" type of fan theories ever pan out.
    civilsecret, Django Fett and TadoFett like this.
  14. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 26, 2014
    No time travel please.
  15. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    I think it could be interesting to explore time travel in Star Wars, and the consequences of it as they did in Back to the Future, but I don’t think that TFA and TLJ are an alternate universe.
    civilsecret, TadoFett and jaqen like this.
  16. Kaylon Sunrider

    Kaylon Sunrider Jedi Youngling

    Oct 10, 2017
    Are you a fan of the legends EU? Luke projecting himself is a force ability used in the EU called the white current used by the Fallanasi.
  17. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 1, 2012
    My immediate thought during Rey's experience in the dark side Mirror Cave was that the cave was trying to tell her she has always arrived there asking the same question and she always would. The dark side doesn't do any favors like informing people about their origins - Luke and later Rey.

    Also too, your thought about @1 about Rey and Shmi is a random idea I've had as well. LOL!
  18. Aetius888

    Aetius888 Jedi Master star 2

    May 23, 2005
    What if Kylo turns out to be good at his job? What if guilt transforms him into a conscientious leader? That's the first thing they could do to muff expectations. Almost certainly, if they were to act consistently on character, Kylo would free the slaves, because that's what Vader wanted to do. But come on, this is Disney. THey don't care about character consistency.

    For the record, when we were talking about Dark!Luke, I thought giving him the power to control time would have been an interesting plotline.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  19. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 1, 2012
    Great, well thought out comments. Looking at TFA and TLJ, compared against the saga - there just seems to be something amiss.


    Both Rey and Finn think Luke is a myth in TFA - TLJ embraces the galactic Legend of Luke Skywalker.

    Finn has already been in combat with Kylo Ren. Ren using the Force to stop blaster bolts midair. Not to mention any other Force tantrums Kylo has had pre-TFA. Yet the Force is a mystery to him and Han has to convince he and Rey, "It's true. All of it..."

    There is a "Resistance" group operating outside the jurisdiction of the New Republic in TFA. Then said group is now the only hope for the galaxy?

    The Resistance turned Rebellion radios for help at the Battle of Crait - no one answers. Did anyone else find that slightly odd?

    The original Rebellion was made up of influential world governments. What is the radio operator, a new Jedi and a pilot going to do against a galactic invasion fleet?

    I agree no mechanisms, but something Force related may have warped the ST era?
  20. Instant Force Talk

    Instant Force Talk Jedi Youngling

    Dec 23, 2017
    Corrected your "They". And adding every fact you let out below:

    - Franchise is rebooted so new source material can be adapted to George Lucas' films.
    - Lucasfilms eradicates the multi-tiered types of canon that George Lucas allowed; made them all "Legends" for the fans.
    - Disney also publishes the final "lost" episodes of The Clone Wars, citing that events tie into Rebels.
    - Rebels has been consistent with the content last seen in both The Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith.
    - The rebooting of Grand Admiral Thrawn is consistent with how he was in The Thrawn Trilogy.
    - Rogue One is more than consistent with A New Hope; It fills in questions left unanswered in the Original Trilogy.
    - Marvel Comics reboots the Star Wars comic series, gaping it between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.
    - Disney Publishing starts a line of "Journey to The Force Awakens" books that fills in some events that connect Return of the Jedi to The Force Awakens.
    - Disney has Lucasfilm pretty much hire only those who know the franchise, are fans of the franchise, and are willing to add to the franchise.
    - The Force Awakens begins the trilogy with Rey going through a Skywalker-like rite of passage.
    - Marvel Comics is going to do (or is doing) a limited series that explains the origins of the Rebel base in The Last Jedi.
    - Disney Publishing is doing a line of "Journey to The Last Jedi" books that fleshes out Leia Organa, and also adds to the many "Legends of Luke Skywalker".

    So instead of arguing, I suggest that you pick up and read 'The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi'. As well as visit/revisit the official site.

    It will show that they care more about the franchise as a whole than you care about them, their contributions, and other factors you are ignoring (out of possible anger).
    civilsecret and TadoFett like this.
  21. Instant Force Talk

    Instant Force Talk Jedi Youngling

    Dec 23, 2017
    Sorry about that off-topic reply. And I have to admit that I really dislike the idea of time travel in this franchise.

    Even before Disney bought Lucasfilms, the franchise should have felt like legends and stories handed down from one generation to another. Lucasfilms is currently emphasizing that with the addition of A Star Wars Story, the rebranding of the original Expanded Universe as Legends, and the book 'The Legend of Luke Skywalker' -- A book that has the reader guess which stories are true, and which are just legends.

    So even if they offered us a movie where an older Doctor Aphra uses a DeLorean as a time machine, and Rey goes back in time to correct her future... The entire "What If?" scenario was already done by Dark Horse Comics. And I personally would prefer revisiting this through a TRPG, or even see IDW take on the task, instead of just watch a TV series (or movie) that those who have issues with the current films have issues with this.
  22. mlsw

    mlsw Jedi Knight star 3

    May 30, 2017
    @Bullhead CIty I'm afraid I agree more with @anakinfansince1983 TFA and TLJ will never be an alternate universe

    And I also agree with a lot of the things @Instant Force Talk said about LF

    In short, I don't think we're ever going to see any TT plot that will change/reboot
    the previous 8 movies. That is out of question, IMO.

    But... a similar plot device (focused on mystical aspects) that may add answers, details,
    something that may change the way we look at the events from 1 to 8
    (not the events themselves) and some other things from the TV shows, the novels, etc...
    that I don't think is totally out of reality.

    Just because it may tie everything without changing the story yet told.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  23. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 20, 2012
  24. BalanceOfTheForce

    BalanceOfTheForce Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 18, 2016
    Plot twist - Rey's parents are Rey and Ben
  25. MasterPrince713

    MasterPrince713 Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 13, 2017
    I don't know about 'time travel' but alternate universe? Hell yes.

    I bring attention back to my DBGT/DB Super/DB Xenoverse analogy.

    Heck, there are those Dark Side endings from certain games even before Disney called for a reboot. They can say they aren't canon all they like but they're still in stores, I still own Legends books.
    Force Smuggler likes this.