Time travel

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jedi_Master_Anakin, Aug 28, 2002.

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  1. Jedi_Master_Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    This is a theory that I have heard many times. First off I would like to say that many of these ideas and theorys were taken from various places. I won't post them unless they are requested. The first part is from an online web-article

    "I've two theories about time traveling, and it may answer some other unanswered questions. In its most simplest form everything is represented as a sphere. An example of this would be - atoms, planets, orbits, etc. Time may be an infinity but an infinitium is also a loop which means it is a sphere too, though it may seem a straight line because its so long but it will eventually lead back to its start. I have some trouble to fully understand this but it seems a possibility as it may be the rule governing the existence of wormholes.

    THEORY ONE
    Think of time as a huge dough-nut, if you're at point A and you want to go to point B you can trek around the dough-nut to point B or make a bridge in the middle and walk across it to point B. In the case of time travelling it can trek from point A to point B instantly. You'll be there in an instant but during which the time your body is physically transported from point A to point B which could be an instant to you but time outside the hole continues as normal, and since you don't have to pass area C ( future ) or D ( past ) to end up in point B you actually tread through time. So you actually gained time, depending on how this works you can tread to the future or the past - which ever one is unknown probably it is random in nature. Though I don't have any calculations to prove my theory, I hope some astronomers can help me with this.

    THEORY TWO
    Time is an infinity which has no end or is gigantic loop like in theory one this theory supports both theories of time. The theory of dimensions. Dimensions can be thought of like radio waves vibrating at different frequencies but sharing the same spectrum in the electromagnet spectrum. Dimensions are a normal phase of evolution for everyone, when you die your existence moves on to another higher spectrum, which I shall call realms. Entities which get trapped on one realm after their physical body cannot be used anymore - person dies, is called a ghost.

    As I see it there are two distinct realms, one the realm of the living that is this one the physical realm, and the realm of the dead which is the non-physical realm for non-physical beings. Probably the subconscious mind treads into this realm while we are sleeping, as some people like me feel physically exhausted after waking up from a dream of running around being chased by something but have no idea of what it is, just an instant to run and not be caught - if you are caught the mind ejects you from it ( wake-up ) before any damage.

    In every realm there is an infinity number of dimensions, each dimension has its own time, mass and rules. Now, let say we exist in the present realm, there is a dimension which exist 1 second behind us, and there is another one behind that dimension, and another...

    So multiple dimensions make up time from the present dimension number -1,000 would be 60seconds * -1,000 which should take you 60,000 seconds to the past. That's how dimensional time travel works roughly.
    But that's only scratched the surface, as there are many rules to understand about it.

    First of all, we were talking about exact copies of the dimension we exist on minus the time difference. How about dimensions which are 3D, having difference not only in time but mass and rules. A world where the dominant species could be reptiles not mammals, 10,000 years in the future according to our dimensional time, with reversed rules of physics - e.g.. you can fly.

    Secondly, treading from dimension to dimension may not get you back to your point of origin. You may end up endlessly wandering the infitium of dimension to dimension for an eternity depending on the method in which you tread from dimension to dimension.

    Thirdly, when treading dimensions the mass from one dimension lessens while another increases, as you are considered mass. O
  2. TOUCHPUMP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    ................Brain Hurts.................


    Must move on to another thread ;)
  3. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    But if there is an infinite expression on the number of dimensional divergences, then one of those possibilities is of a reality from which there are no other divergences.

    Welcome to reality. :D
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    How much of that did you write, and how much did you copy from elsewhere?
  5. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    Is one meant to actually read that?
  6. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Two basic things i know about time travel:
    1. The closer to the speed of light you travel the less time you will experiance in relation to an outside observer. If you tavelled at 99% lightspeed to the nearest star and back, approx 8.6 years will have gone by for those running around on Earth. But you the traveller will have measured only 1.21 years. You will have travelled to the future.

    That one is a fact of nature.

    2. If a black hole spins, its singularity will not be a point but will be ring shaped. Entering the black hole and passing through the ring will place you in another time. Whether you go to the past or present and how far into the past or present is determined by the angle that you pass through the ring. Physics break down at the singularity and heavy distortions in space-time are possible.
    This one is theoretical speculation.

    On a side note, Hawking once said that at the singularity not only is time travel possible but ANYTHING is possible. If you flew up to the singularity it is VERY INPROBABLE that the Devil is going to be sitting on the ring waiting for you...but it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE. The sci fi author Jerry Pournelle witnessed this lecture and said Hawking chuckled after stating this.

    Although we all dream of travelling to the future to see what new wonders there could be, or dream of the past to visit historical places and people, its probably best that the singularity inside a black hole is hidden from us.
  7. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Hey, I watched Back to the Future tonight!!!

    Dude, I'm interested in time travel (though I don't think it's possible), but that's too much for me to read :p

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  8. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    Yes, KW, I wrote it all by myself. :D



    Am I time traveling when I use the 'back' and 'forward' functions on my pc? :)
  9. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Since wormholes could theroretically be used for time travel here is a link with the basics of making one:

    NewImprovedWormholes

    Enjoy.
  10. jedimaster5615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 2
    In order to travel through time we only need a Flux Capacitor and a Delorian. I know someone who has the second. All I need is the previous...

    To me time travel seems the most possible in the black hole situation. A black hole warps spacetime so much that it actually tears. Fly through that tear what happens...destuction...time travel...enter another universe. But since spacetime is warped so severly time is slowed. I'm not sure if this next part is in an actual theory or if I came up with it, but when you closer to the tear, time slows more and more. It seems to me that "in" the tear time stops. If spacetime is tore how can their be time or even space?

    Just my current theory.
  11. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I believe whether in the singularity is a point or a ring, if you touch it, everything comes to and end for you(Your exsistance, time etc..). It is passing close to or through the ring form that couls allow for time travel.
    Let me be clear, when passing through the ring your destination is a differant universe, but one of those universes could be ours in a differant time. At least thats how I understand it.
    This may be outdated and it is possible to get the same effect by passing close to a point singularity, but the brief article I have read states that in a rotating black hole with a ring singularity it is possible to emerge back out of the black hole instead of being trapped inside forever or being destroyed.
  12. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Don't you think if in the future somebody invents a way to travel back in time we would have already seen it.
  13. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Kip Thorne and Hawking showed that a time machine made in the ring singularity or wormhole method would NOT allow travel to a time BEFORE the travel device was created.
    So the reason we do not see time travelers is because one has not been invented yet.

    If you made a time machine today, then today would be the earliest you could travel back to in the years to come.
  14. CUBIE_HOLE Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 15, 2001
    star 4
    I heard about this a while back, and it's a little vague, but I think it went something like this.

    In theory, it's possible to 'sort of' time travel into the past, but not have the physical body travel, but only be able to view the past.

    It can simply be seen by looking into the night sky. Looking at stars in the night sky, is in a sense, time travel, because you're seeing how those stars were X years ago.

    This applies for us also. If one could travel faster than the speed of light, and somehow bring rays of light to converge back on one another, it would reform images of the past.

    You don't see objects. You only see the reflection of light off of them, and those reflections go on.
  15. Jedi_Master_Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, at least some people like these theories. However, I must say that the theory is quite long though. But there are some interesting theories if you want to find them. Also, these theories are very complex, and they are really odd if you understand them.
  16. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    There is a rule in physics that says: If something is not forbidden, then it is required.
    There is nothing in physics that says time travel is impossible. The problem comes in the requirements to make the time travel "Device".
    I gave examples above...the manipulation of black holes is required, I can't put into words how difficult that is.
    The one thing many scientists will tell you is that is a one way trip. Yeah, you can jump in and time travel, but you cannot return to the point and time you started(Maybe, this is still conjecture of course).
  17. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    Thing is there are allot of 'could' and 'maybe' statements in that. Yeah, a slight un-destaned change in a subatomic partical somewhere may in theory lead to the universe on a whole changing, but odds of that are nill. Unless the universe will collaps on itself in the end of time, it probably wont even matter then, but in theory it might.

    A little paradox that a friend and I came up with was this. Events happen as folow. You appear to yourself and give yourself a time machine. The new one of you tells yourself that in 5 minutes, you will go back in time and well, be here, and in five minutes you do, and you tell yourself to go back in time in 5 minutes, and he does, and it is a nice closed time loop.

    The questiont that came up is the conservation of matter and energy. Would that somehow play a factor in that whole thing, or not? I say no, because your timeline is now overall a bit longer, sort of borrowing energy and matter from your (matter's) future. Something to think about.
  18. Doobie-Wan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 1
    Existing Forms of Time-Travel

    SYSTEM: SPECIFICATIONS: <CUMULATIVE TIME LAG>

    Airline flight: 920 km per hour for eight hours <10 nanoseconds (relative to inertial reference frame)>

    Nuclear submarine tour: 300 meters' depth for six months <500 nanoseconds (relative to sea level)>

    Cosmic-ray neutron: 1018 electron volts <Mean life stretched from 15 minutes to 30,000 years>

    Neutron star: Redshift 0.2 <Time intervals expand 20 percent (relative to deep space)>


    www.scientificamerican.com
  19. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    I. Time travel is a bit too paradoxical to be considered seriously. Too many problems arise on paper, and that is without all the little variables that can screw things up.

    II. Black Holes, especially those with both spins and electric charges, have a ring-shaped singularity (as outlined before). However, any possible time bridge opened would collaspe within a span of Planck Time. That's the smallest measurable unit of time, and nothing can possible travel through the gates of time that fast.

    III. The so called "time travel" mentioned about is simple time dialation, and nothing more. You are not really travelling through time because time at your speed is constant, even though it is moving faster than it is for a stationary observer.
  20. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Read the link I posted above for a possible resolution to the problem in "II".
    :)

    Good summaries, I'm so glad someone else posted Plank as the smallest mesurable unit, someone else try to say that was wrong..too bad.
    :)
  21. Talon_Karrde_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 4
    Last year I wrote my junior research paper on this topic (98% baby ya! :) ) Anyway, instead of reposting everything, feel free to read it HERE. If you know nothing about this topic and wish to learn (and have alittle free time) this should be a good read.


    D-'-,-'-,'-,-- Karrde
  22. phantom31415 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 1
    A little paradox that a friend and I came up with was this. Events happen as folow. You appear to yourself and give yourself a time machine. The new one of you tells yourself that in 5 minutes, you will go back in time and well, be here, and in five minutes you do, and you tell yourself to go back in time in 5 minutes, and he does, and it is a nice closed time loop.

    Good, but try this variation.

    You sit it in a closed room and wait. Soon, your future self appears in fromt of you and holds up a card with either a 1 or a 2 printed on it. You wait a while, then you go back in time with the intent to show yourself whichever card your future self did not show you. What happens?
  23. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Paradoxs can give headaches.

    A teacher reads about a science article.

    He travels back in time before the article was printed and teaches a student the information in the article.

    The student then publishes the article and it is the article that the teacher had read before he went back in time. Where did the information from the article come from? Not the student, he learned it from the teacher. Not the teacher, he read it in an article.
  24. Talon_Karrde_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 4
    You travel back in time and kill your grandfather...do you still exist? You killed your grandfather, so your father wasn't born, so YOU weren't born. If you weren't born, how could you have gone back in time to kill your grandfather? And so on... :)
  25. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    Okay, I skimmed through Theory One and it didn't really make sense and I read Theory Two all the way to "Destiny, Causality, and Temporal Divergence".

    Theory One, I think is more of a theory about actuallying reversing INTO the past and going forward INTO the future. Much like Back to the Future.

    Theory Two sounds pretty much like Sliders and The One. Basically its saying that there is a Time Dimensional Universe for each road not taken for each second that has passed through time. That when you time travel, you are actually going into another dimension and when you change something or arrive, your presence creates a new dimension from that dimension, but you are not changing anything from your dimension because you are not in your dimension.

    You travel back in time and kill your grandfather...do you still exist? You killed your grandfather, so your father wasn't born, so YOU weren't born. If you weren't born, how could you have gone back in time to kill your grandfather? And so on...

    Depends on how far back you go to kill him. Do you kill him before your grandmother is with child?

    Lets say that the Grandfather was killed before the Father was conceived. Fate, IMHO, has a funny way of still making the same grandchild of the Grandfather exist.
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