Lit Timothy Zahn give's response to Mara issue I emailed him with

One of the (big) issues I and other's have had is how Mara despite supposedly being a Loyal Imperial seems to always help/side with the Rebellion in the books and that comic Night on the Town where she even teams up with both Madine, who from her POV should be both a Rebel and a Deserter the 2 worst things ever.

It was getting to absurd extremes, and as never one to beat round the bush I emailed Zahn direct with this issue and he was kind enough to respond and I thought I would post that here and see what people make of it. Myself I am not sure I agree with him at all on this but I am sure others will have a different POV.

I don't see Mara as having helped the Rebellion so much as I see her having used the available resources to do her job, which is the protection of the Empire from corrupt Imperial officials. At this time a lot of Imperials aren't taking the Rebellion seriously (Death Star I was obviously a fluke), and are underestimating their strength and influence. More importantly, Mara is like Palpatine's Internal Affairs department (with a little Judge Dredd thrown in), while Vader has taken on the job of destroying the Rebellion. Mara has done deals with pirates, unidentified aliens, and rogue stormtroopers to get her job done -- why not do the same with a few malcontents whose defiance is undoubtedly going to fizzle soon anyway? (Remember *she* doesn't know how the story ends.)
Also remember that, while Palpatine thinks she's completely under his control, the Force is also a player in this game. While she may think she's simply using a few relatively harmless malcontents to do her job, the Force knows where the whole Empire/Rebellion thing is going and may well be nudging her in a direction she doesn't realize she's going.
Don't forget that Mara is going to eventually turn to the light side, and the rules of writing dictate that hints of that part of her character *must* be shown, lest the change come completely out of the blue and cheat the reader. I assume that's why Vader doesn't simply kill Admiral Piett at the end of TESB for letting the Falcon escape -- we need to be shown that his pure-black surface is starting to crack a little to show the old Jedi buried within.
You can still argue all this, of course, and I really do see your points. I would merely suggest that I'm not changing Mara's character as I created her, but opening up more of her personality for the reader to see.
Thanks for writing.

Disaster zone.

 

Yeah it's all just him trying to look after his pet character, shoe-horning her into every book while keeping her a "good guy" at the same time, and all it really achieves is harming her character, making the storylines unbelievable and lessening the quality of the books.

 

F4, thanks for sharing that - makes for interesting reading and a perspective I hadn't noticed.

And that's why a lot of authors don't post on internet forums! Or perhaps even respond to emails, after all, who knows what'll happen?

Come on, the man spends the time to respond to an email he doesn't have to, does so in a considered manner, is polite and, once the response is shared? He gets a load of crap from online know-it-alls!

Sure you can disagree but it'd better without all the tarnishing you're also engaging in.

 

Zahn is Traviss-ing here a lot.. for one, Mara was supposed to be a Dark Side Agent originally only later she got whitewashed in HoT Trilogy to have been just loyal to Darksiders, not a darksider herself. So, he can't claim her being both.. mutually exclusive and we have yet to see her do darkside acts. She never killed out of anger or revenge so far, merely loyality and duty like any cop would do. Killing itself may be a darkside act per se some may say, but then she is no less dark than any good Jedi who killed in selfdefense or protection of others.

so his reply, while nice and detailed does not help the issue any further sadly aside stating his obvious point on her: He likes her, he will never show her as someone not likeable.

 

Was she supposed to have been a Dark Side Agent, though? It's been a little while since I read it, but I can't recall anything in particular in TTT that says she was actually trained in using the dark side of the Force. Most of the indications were that her Force abilities were mostly linked to Palpatine himself, and while she was trained in some more direct killing techniques(stabbing/thrusting with the lightsaber, though that can only be said because we never saw it using in the OT it was assumed Jedi didn't do that... which is silly, as I think hacking with a lightsaber is a much more brutish use of the weapon) but I don't remember her ever having been said to have outright used the dark side of the Force to do what she was employed to do. In fact, long before she's even particularly concerned about her service to the Emperor or whether or not killing Luke Skywalker is the right thing to do... she's wary of C'Baoth because she senses the dark side in him.

"Dark Side Agent" seems to be more of an assumption than a fact.

 

Something wrong with what i said?

i think you may have read it in a different tone that what i intended

 

Interesting response. Although I've been a Zahn fan for a while and consider all of his books to be at least decent overall (compared to some of the more abysmal stuff we've gotten), so I tend to see his writing in a positive light.

I agree there was a big shift in how Mara (and Thrawn for that matter) were portrayed from Thrawn Trilogy to Hand of Thrawn (and not just due to in-universe character development since HoT was about 10 years after Mara dealt with her biggest personal issues). And it is a big change in description from being the Emperor's personal assassin to sort of being a glorified Force-sensitive internal affairs agent. Mostly I personally just chalk up any inconsistencies as due to Mara's ignorance as a convenient retcon, such as in Allegiance when she says she is the only Hand in the Empire... yeah, sure she is.

Mara was always Zahn's creation, so while its arguable what his original vision for her was compared to now, she has always been an... honorable, ethical character (her own version of ethics, but still), so if you just don't like her character, there's nothing else to discuss other than to agree to disagree. And personally I'm not really interested in seeing her as "evil", we get enough of that from prequel era stories with an unstable Anakin Skywalker.

Zahn's response reminds me of Kir Kanos somewhat. From Mara' (and Kanos') point of view, while the Rebels are enemies, at least they're open about it, compared to treacherous Imperials, who they view as much worse. And by Night on the Town, Palpatine was dead and Mara wasn't on good terms with the various factions going for the throne, she got to tie up a loose end and she figures the Rebels finding the treasure stash a few days earlier isn't a big difference. Even if she did know about Madine's background (forget how much she knew about him at that point), defecting is probably not as bad as just robbing the treasury for themselves.

And while I agree there's a big difference between the Thrawn trilogy and HoT, honestly, Mara's always been a pretty honorable character. Like how in the Thrawn trilogy, where she's mostly been bitter about her life since Palpatine died and was still planning to eventually kill Luke Skywalker, she keeps passing up opportunities to kill him. She has more immediate reasons not to kill him, but then they start piling up as excuses which Leia calls her out on. And I think her character defining moment is when she realizes that Palpatine's last command wasn't to avenge him, as Luke didn't kill Palpatine as she thought, but rather was one last spiteful act against Vader, who did kill Palpatine. So before that she had thought of herself as out for justice rather than simple revenge, which says something about her worldview. If anything Thrawn's portrayal post Thrawn trilogy seems to clash more with the original introduction of their character than Mara, but that's a whole other debate.

 

Which was?

 

What strikes me in Zahn's answer - aside from how polite and nice it is of him to answer to thoroughly!!! - is that he actually can see the claimed points. And it once again confirms me how impossible work it is to be an EU writer. When Mara's created, she has very little background history - and her character works out just perfectly, filling her role in the plot and creating exciting tensions. Then she moves towards light - and IMO Zahn tried to show her to much good on expence of Luke, but she still worked pretty well. But in MJNIT, various short stories, Allegiance, CoO - then what? They all work nicely as plotdriven stories - and they all show a Mara who's highly professional, but much more controlled and rational than we maybe get the impression of in TTT. IMO that also reduces the interesting conflicts in her character - then gain, does that happen out from Zahn's portrayal of her - or does it happen out of the very fact that her mysteries are unraveled?

We fans get what we ask for - but are we happy?

I still love Mara's character to bits, but I haven't been quite happy with her in the past stories.

Maybe it's so banal that I guess I miss the snark.

Neither light nor dark. That's what Palparine claims and Vader agrees with in MJBTEH. We can argue about how that is possible, but IMO, we have to take that at face value.

Well, "it's all just him trying to look after his pet character, shoe-horning her into every book" does sound rather deprecating. Already the "it's all just him" wording, would drop me into defence mood, if I was the one spoken about...

 

Jello, you nail it! While I know we fans can be hysteric and petty about our fav heroes showing weaknesses, I think it's sad if the characters we learned to love as grey or blackandwhite, are later shown in to favourable light. It very easily lessens their depth - while what at least I'd like to see, is more depth - more conflict!

 

Command Decision, Jello?

 

I'm pretty sure it's been implied the Force at least the Dark side of it is at least somewhat sentient

 

Thanks, don't think I've read that one.

 

While I agree with many of the above posts, I do like some of Zahn's response. The part about Vader not killing Piett is an interesting take.

 

For me the issue is that I don't buy the motivation. If she is meant to be Judge Dredd rather than a Ventress type character as he states (though the skill set she has is completely anti-thetical to a Policeman even a Dredd style one), then even more so from her POV she should hate the Rebel's rather than make deals with them.

It's also poor dramatically and a bit predictable since you know that the Imperial that shows up in the book will try to kill Mara, while the Rebel will be helped by her, with Zahn tying himself in knots trying to have a credible reason why, other than the Force/Author is pushing her in that direction.

I use Ventress as a good comparison. In TCW she is now semi-good now, but as a character all her faults have not been washed away or ret-conned to do it.

 

The Rebels are just one of many threats the Emperor actually has to deal with, corruption and usurpers within his own rank is a very consistent problem. Even Vader actually has ambitions to replace the Emperor by the time of TESB, as well as Tarkins intended endgame for the Death Star, not to mention various Moffs, Jerec, Gepta, Cronal etc. Mara more often seems to get send out to deal with such kind of problems, than battling the Rebels which is what Vader usually gets to do.

Though yes both Mara and Thrawn appeared more villainous in TTT than in later works, though that might really be a perspective thing, as Mara is actually surprisingly heroic and honorable during TTT, but gets bad press from the Rebel characters because she was a former Imperial. Whilst Thrawn is the villain of the story at least from the Rebel POV, though we have Pellaeon to offer a nice counterpoint to the whole thing.

 

I'm sceptical that there was any kind of grand plan for Mara, hence the inconsistencies that arise when you try and put all the pieces together.

 

Grand Plan by the Emperor? Properly not, she was a useful tool, just like his other minions.

 

I think in this instance 'the will of the force' is shorthand for 'taking the story where it needs to go'.

I think her character post-TTT is bland, boring and predictable; Luke and Mara are so dull together. Her pre-TTT character doesn't seem as dark, which seems odd. I'd agree that the character depicted in TTT has been watered down in subsequent sequels and prequels.

I've not read hundreds of books, I'm basing this on the Zahn books I've read (which I think is most of them).

 

I'm fine with Mara's main target being Imperial traitors. And you put it, Gorefiend, they were a more consistant problem than the Rebels - ro could seem like it. And I'm also more than aware, that Palpatine had made sure Mara had a strong ethical core, and that she's believing she's doing the right thing while serving him. What I guess bothers me, is the smoothness of what we get. We know Mara's on the 'wrong side' (yeah, yeah, I know, I'm supposed to me mature and all, but this is SW and part of why I love it, is because it (for once) allows me to cut stuff in black and white) - yet we see her float not only in success (which is ok as long as the Imps are winning) but also in one right decision after another. Well, I know Mara's resourceful and super-trained and all, yet, one of the reasons why I started to love her, was that there was this breach between what she thought she did and what she actually did. I guess what I lack, is the discord - the crack! And yes, I also know that she wouldn't see the crack - she wouldn't experience it before much, much later, after Palpatine's died - but as reader, I still look for it, certain I shold at least be able to see it! And as I don't see it - the smoothness of her long line of 'right' desicions start to slightly bother me.

Does this make sense? It's actually not a critique of what Zahn has done so far - it's more an urgent hope that we'll get to - well - get to dig deeper!!!

 

Arguably the problem I have with Mara post-TTT is the supposed need for her to preserve her 'edge', that there's somehow a need for her to continue being acerbic and abrasive to people. Then again, all too often that kind of aggressive harsh nature is deemed "strength" - just try working such an individual and you'll find it to be anything but!

The only real case I know where Mara actually moved beyond the version created by Zahn was in Tyers' Balance Point, where she was actually to demonstrate a sense of confidence while not being at ease with her past - it was a fine and carefully struck balance. She still knew how to give someone a slapping, verbal or physical, but didn't to go around threatening it all the time. It was only when Jaina pushed her too far that Mara verbally decked her!

 

You don't? Black ops assassin marries mass murdering galactic terrorist. They're the ideal couple, no? No problems to work out in the first place!