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RPR Archive Tips/Advice Articles: Force-User Characters

Discussion in 'Role Playing Resource Archive' started by NaboosPrincess, Mar 12, 2006.

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  1. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    Please use this thread to post tips and advice on the unique aspects of playing characters who use the Force!
  2. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    Here are some tips from the old "Training Grounds and Informational Thread" to start us off!
    FORCE-USER CHARACTERS
    • The Amount of Force (using the Force)

    • Answers to Some Questions

    • Answers to Some Questions x2

    • Balance!

    The Amount of Force, by Ktala

    Hi all. Im going to chatter on a subject that causes alot of hair pulling..and why many folks dont like Jedi chracters in a campaign...because of the tendency to God-Mode...

    Using the Force.

    Every campaign is diffrent, so it is up to each GM to figure out how to regulate its usage. But, it is also up to the players as well. It is no fun, being in a game, if you have a chracter running around, trying to be all powerful..all knowing, and all seeing. Why bother playing?

    FIRST. READ what is going on. And then re-read it again. Many folks, skip or miss an attack or defensive movement, and plow ahead with what they are doing. It makes it frustrating.

    Here are some other common mistakes to try and avoid.

    ALL POWERFUL. This one can get tricky sometimes. And usually a very common mistake since levels play alot into it. Unless you have something special going on, that the GM knows about, most of the time, padawans will NOT be able to outdue a knight in their force abilities. Same between a Knight and a Master. Between two of the same rank, things get tricky. Unless the GM is employing a points system, its going to be difficult. But, things such as suprise, and other tactics will help in getting the drop over an opponent.

    Let's say...a Dark Lord, and a Jedi Master are in battle. The Dark Lord throws force lighting. The Jedi Master counters, with using both his abilities, and his lightsaber to block the blow. This is going to going to TAKE something out of the Master. He will feel it. Dont ignore it. Make it appropriate to his level. He could ignore blocking blaster shots no problem. If more than 10 folks are shooting at him...he has a problem. Jedi's are not machines. Sooner or later...one will reach him.

    Also, things like Jedi mind tricks and such..that work on the the minds of individuals...not EVERYONE is weak willed. Play it that way..and you're due to get a suprise. Just becuase they are NOT Jedi, or Force users, does not mean they are weak by any streach of the imagination.

    ALL KNOWING. Guess what? A Jedi can be suprised. Something else can catch them off guard for a split second,...it is all that it takes. An explosion..someone else is grabbed, your opponent might be better in cloaking themseles or hiding in the force...anything...can give them that second that they need. You will not pick them up 2 miles before they reach you. You might feel a vague feeling of somthing going to happen..but until an action is initiated..you will not know what..or who..or even where. That helpless young woman you were in the middle of saving..might be one heck of an assassin..you wont know, till she acts.

    And while Im at it, once of my biggest pet peeves is when a Jedi meets up with 'the villian'...especially if they happen to be Dark Jedi or Sith.

    Guys...These folks dont usually OOZE darkside from their pores all the time..(unless the wish to.) There is no neon sign, blinking SITH over their heads. Unless they are actively DOING or THINKING somthing that would make them stand out as overtly evil...you WONT know. Most of these folks have spent their entire life in hiding...and they are good at it. They have to be. (And since in MANY campaigns..the Sith are not actually known to exists that much..or are very rare creatures to run into...no..a Jedi will not automatically KNOW..more than likely, a Jedi has never really ran into a TRUE Sith before...(Many folks can call themselves a Sith...dosent mean that they are.) For those campaigns that the Sith are more in supply..it STILL takes an act, before one can be noticed...or deductive reasoning.

    ALL SEEING. I think this one gets over used the most. Its the "I see/sense it in the Force" syndrome. Okay, ge/>/>
  3. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Okay, first up, your Force Sensitive isn't allowed to crush a handful of some random material with such pressure that he creates a crystal, even if you saw Superman do it once.

    On the face of it, no-one gets harmed - at least, that was what I was thinking - but there will be puckering butt-holes before your post is even cold.

  4. NaboosPrincess Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 6
    Friendly lil' up from your neighborhood Moddess. :)
  5. Master_Mentat Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2006
    I love Jedi characters, but there are a few things that irritate me about them. They seem to fight and kill too easily, they always know whats going on, even with other characters personal struggles; and they feel they need to be some sort of crusader. I have both GM'ed games with Jedi, and played as a Jedi myself. I hope this is helpful.

    One of the biggest things that I used to do as a GM was restricting combat. As a player, you must remember that the Jedi beleive that killing is inherently evil, and every time a Jedi kills, it weighs on him (or at least it should). Normally, I would penalize a Jedi character if they fought and/or killed when they could have stopped their target another way. The only time I allowed a Jedi character to fight and kill is when there was no way to stop the person(s) they were opposing from hurting themselves or others.

    Really, the Jedi is the strongest character a person can have in the Star Wars universe. That is one of the reasons, as players you should try to hold to the morals of the Jedi strictly when you play. Never rely on combat, especially mortal combat, to resolve solutions. You should oppose fighting, even possibly to your character's own detriment if it means not killing a person who is merely ignorant, and not truly a threat to the safety of others. That is the REAL crux of wether a Jedi fights/kills or not. For example: A Sith is opposed to peace and life in general. If not stopped, they will sow destruction and hate everywhere they go. Additionally, they WILL attempt to kill a Jedi they come across unless it will spoil greater plans. In this case, a Jedi would be completely justified in fighting and even killing his opponent. That is, of course, assuming that the character is aware of the fact that the being IS a sith.

    Which is the next big deal with Jedi. Metagame thinking is very easy to play off as 'a disturbance in the force', or some other vague, force related cop-out. Jedi do NOT always know when they are being watched, or when trouble is coming. In the d20 rules, any ability that gives a Jedi a general purpose ability to sense force users or danger requires a commitment of energy to maintain. Similarly, in freeform roleplay, unless a Jedi is on the lookout for trouble or force users, they can very easily be caught off guard. How do you think Order 66 was executed with such effectivness? The Jedi weren't looking for trouble from the soldiers, and even though there was a great danger to all Jedi, all but the strongest, or most fortunate, were able to sense trouble. There is very rarely any sort of 'all points bulleten' with Jedi or the force, even in traumatic situations.

    Finally, the last thing is one of my biggest pet peeves with Jedi characters. They are NOT PALADINS!! For those of you not familliar with DnD, a Paladin is a class in Dungeons and Dragons that can become very powerful. They have the combat skills of a fighter, and later on develop healing and magical abilities from a patron diety. This makes for a very powerful combination. There is however, one, tiny little caveat: they have to be Lawful Good (all consumingly good). They are required to help anyone in need, AND (more importantly to this discussion) enforce THEIR set of moral guidelines. If they fail to do either of these things, they loose their powers, become a 'fallen Paladin' and no longer gain levels as a Paladin. The Jedi are not moral police. If someone is not being hurt, or will not be as a result, the Jedi are taught that one should not judge another's culture simply because it does not directly coincide with their way. Jedi do not have to stop every shady dealing, they do not have to stop every crooked shopowner, or save every puppy in town. PLEASE do not do this to your fellow roleplayers. I at least cannot stand it when my alliance smuggler, bounty hunter, etc, has to help save all the little bunnies in _ town because I have a Jedi in my group. Or have to listen to them go on and on about how my way of life is immoral because I cheat at cards, smuggle illegal goods, and generally
  6. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    =D= Bravo! Lovely piece that I learned a lot from. I've had a problem with the jedi not helping the slaves on Tatooine in the prequel trilogy, but your way of looking at them explains a lot.

    I'm going to advise the jedi in one of my games to come look at your post. Well done. :)
  7. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Though as a minor sidenote: that's probably not the way paladins are to be played either. Though that is the way that many people seem to play them. Which brings up my complaint: It seems like there are too many people who play their paladins as Lawful, rather than Good.

    First off, there are only five things a paladin is REQUIRED to do:
  8. Never willingly commit an evil act

  9. Respect legitimate authority

  10. Act with honor

  11. Help those in need

  12. Punish those who harm or threaten innocents


  13. They are not rquired to be the thought police, hunters of criminals, slayers of demons, smiters of evil or arbiters of the law. Many of these things are dangerously close to evil if pushed to extremes by ignorance. If you often find yourself in situations where you feel you have to do something because of your code... consider a change in character or class. Hypothetically speaking, you should be doing good because you want to help people, not because you have to do it or it makes you feel special and superior. And unlike Jedi, it's perfectly acceptable for a paladin to get completely pissed off. He just should be careful about avoiding any evil acts while doing it.

    Anyways, back to the Jedi. I agree 100% with Master_Mentat, and I'd like to add in a few more thoughts. Like him, one thing that always bothers me when I see it is the combat machismo. Power of the Jedi refers to it as "lightsaber syndrome", where a Jedi has reached a level of skill that he/the player finds himself looking forward to an opportunity to kick *** and take names. Sometimes they might get a little aggressive, and start picking fights or taking the first strike. This is dangerously close to (if not completely) un-Jedi behavior. They might forget that the Force is used to defend, not to show off.

    I've got a lot to say about this, but I think I'll just start with an overview I pulled from Power of the Jedi called...

    Following the Jedi Code

    Self-discipline
  14. Conquer arrogance

  15. Conquer overconfidence

  16. Conquer defeatism

  17. Conquer stubbornness

  18. Conquer recklessness

  19. Conquer curiosity

  20. Conquer aggression

  21. Conquer external loyalties

  22. Conquer materialism


  23. Responsibility
  24. Practice honesty

  25. Honor your promise

  26. Honor your Padawan

  27. Honor your Master

  28. Honor the Jedi Council

  29. Honor the Jedi Order

  30. Honor the Law

  31. Honor life


  32. Public service
  33. Duty to the Republic

  34. Render aid

  35. Defend the weak

  36. Provide support


  37. Think about thse principles to begin with. Being a Jedi isn't about the powers and the saber (those are just the showy perks), it's about the incredible responsibility and committment that they have.

    I could talk about this for a while, the only question is whether or not this counts for anyone. I suppose I can just offer it up as an alternate view.

    More later.
  38. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Qui-Gon didn't seem to get the 'render aid', 'defend the weak' thing.

    NP, LSA, feel free to erase if this is out of place.
  39. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Because I feel it will truely be of some good, I have typed up the complete section from the excellence of Power of the Jedi dealing with the Jedi Code. Read it, love it, use it. All respect and credit go to designers JD Wiker, Michael Mikaelian, Jeff Grubb, Owen K.C. Stephens and James Maliszewski. If I'm violating copyrights, then feel free to delete it.

    Following the Jedi Code
    "A Jedi Master always said this to each of his students before their first lesson: 'Cross an unfamiliar river without first discerning its depths and shallows, and you will drown in its currents without reaching your goal. Being a Jedi is no different. Identify the pitfalls and learn the proper path, or you fail the Order and sacrifice yourself to no good purpose"
    -Master Odan-Urr

    When Master Odan-Urr examined the Jedi Code, he talked about the Code's basic points and a few of the specifics. His interpretations of the Jedi virtues and traits of meditation, training, loyalty, integrity, morality, discretion, and bravery, as well as his thoughts on combat, make good starting points for discussions on the nature of being a Jedi. These commentaries do not answer every question a Jedi might have about how one should act and think and address the problems of everyday life, or about simultaneoulsy serving the common good and obeying the will of the Force.

    While the Code addresses a number of matters relating to understanding and mastering the Force, it is not entirely about knowing the Force. To know the Force, a Jedi must feel it, and ancient writings are no substitue for personal experience. Conversely, a Jedi cannot learn polite and acceptable social behavior by experiencing the Force. Thus, the Jedi Code is a set of guidelines for understanding the Force without sacrificing good manners.

    The majority of the behavior protocols in the Code are merely guides to good Jedi conduct. Transgressions of the Jedi Code, while a cause for concern, should never be confused with turning to the dark side. The Code contains a number of basic (if sometimes overlooked) instructions on day-to-day life, including discussions on diet and hygiene. A Jedi certainly shouldn't turn to the dark side because of occasional overeating or missing a few baths.

    Gamemasters and players should understand that the following section is devoted to proper behavior for a Jedi character, and that these "rules" have nothing to do with game mechanics such as Force Points and Dark Side Points. These brief discussions instead elaborate on how the Jedi Order expects Jedi to behave, and therefore gives some pointers on how to play Jedi heroes. As always, GMs and players are welcome to choose the aspects they feel are most important to their own games.

    Self-discipline
    One of the keystones of Jedi behavior is self-discipline, and Jedi Masters instruct their students in this tenet very early. Most of the lessons are no different from those taught to ordinary children, but as the student progresses, so does the complexity of the lessons. The Jedi student learns that self-discipline is far more important to a person who can wield the Force than it is to one who cannot even feel its touch.
  40. Conquer arrogance: Jedi are special, but their ability to acess the Force does not make them better than other people. A Jedi is a Jedi only because someone else has taken the trouble to teach him. A Jedi Knight is a Jedi Knight only because her Master determines that he cannot teach his student anything further. A Jedi Master is a Jedi Master only because he has discarded his own sense of self-importance and embraced the will of the Force. As Master Dooku explained to a class of Jedi Students: "The acceptance of others is not a guarantee. Like everyone else, a Jedi is accepted or not based on his behavior. The Jedi who believes that he is more important than others only demonstrates that his opinion is to be ignored."

  41. Conquer overconfidence: Many young Jedi students, on learning of the limitless potenti
  42. Sith-I-5 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2002
    star 5
    Well done on typing that up, Light'.
  43. Vothus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2007
    What I'm about to say regards grey jedi. ( I use to be one myself so I know from experience.) A lot of people and when I say a lot I mean TONS of people label their character as a "grey jedi" and have tons of dark powers, when being a grey jedi is a philosophy rather than a excuse to use dark powers and if you look it up a grey jedi does not mean a jedi who uses dark powers. And most of these people who have grey jedi almost have every single dark power. And I think of these people more as dark jedi because they practice the dark side of the force. And yes Mace Windu himself used crush on Greavios, But he did not practice the dark side of the force. And when someone gives their character these powers in their force power section, it means they practice this power, which mainly makes them a dark jedi.

    Hope that made sense, if not plz say so :) :D

    peace! [face_peace]
  44. Hammurabi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2007
    star 4
    Wait... Say again?
  45. Vothus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2007
    My character, use to be one sorry about that.
  46. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Just a thought or two on playing Force-sensitive characters...incorporating all of the brilliant things that Ktala and everyone else has had to say on the subject. But here's one other thing: consider physical exertion in your portrayal of your characters who use Force powers.

    In the movies--particularly OT, not so much PT--the Force seemed linked to physical exertion or endurance. The prime example of this is ESB. Luke can't lift his X-Wing out of the swamp, fine. He's not strong enough with the Force yet. But here's something interesting: he appears physically exhausted after trying, because he says it's "too big". During his duel with Vader later in the film, you can see his hair's wet with sweat from the physical (and Force) exertion. (And you'll also note, dear friends, that even Vader's automated breathing speeds up during his duels. Check out ANH if you don't believe me.) True, Yoda doesn't break a sweat when he *does* lift the X-Wing out, but he does take a deep breath when he's done ... and look at his expression during AOTC when he's keeping the pylon from falling onto Obi-Wan and Anakin. The upshot? Force powers do cost something physically...and maybe an aspect of play is to demonstrate that as well. If Yoda can look exhausted after a fight with Darth Sidious (and more importantly have to cope with the consequences of that exhaustion) then why shouldn't this be a part of your portrayal of a Force-sensitive character?
  47. LordDarthUmbrus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    Sage advice, Saintheart, and I very much appreciate the Jedi Guidelines everyone. They are very helpful.

    -----

    The Dark Side

    My province has been relegated to the Dark Side, for the most part, so my understanding leans more toward the Sith than to the Jedi...though I do play Jedi characters often. I always try to keep in mind those rules mentioned by Ktala and Lightwarden when playing Jedi.

    Though, I'm sure some may disagree with me, I have always attempted to play my Force Characters with fairness and allow myself to be shepherded around God-Modding if I become too overzealous.

    My one rule for playing a Sith character is this:


  48. Expect to die.


  49. I am serious in this. The Dark Side is death and those that practice it are doomed. Go in with this attitude, and your Dark Side character will take shape in a way befitting something evil. I promise you.

    Each Dark Side power damages more than just an opponent. It damages your character irreversibly. You need to reflect that in your writing. This will lend itself to the tragedy and horror of your character.

    As your character uses the Dark Side more and more, the more the character must be consumed by it until nothing is left.

    I should say that any Dark Sider that is not killed in an RPG is playing a a totally unrealistic game and should not waste their time.

    It is my goal that each of the Dark Side characters that I play will eventually die or be banished permanently (as is the case with a Dark Side Force Specter).

    As with Jedi, strength in the Dark Side comes with time and practice. But unlike a Jedi who's strength in spirit grows over time, a Master of the Dark Side's spirit decays.

    There should be an inverse relationship between the physical and spiritual strength and Force Power for a Dark Side player. The more powerful and knowledgeable a player is in the Dark Side, the weaker they shall be physically or spiritually.

    No Sith ever seen has been unscathed. Sidious was a physical ruin, Vader was a french fry, Bane held many injuries that caused him constant pain, Nihilus had lost his body entirely to the Dark Side, Scion could only remain alive and hold his mutilated body together by virtue of his hate fueling his Dark Rage, Darth Traya was blind. We've yet to see Darth Plagueius, but he will necessarily have to have some hang up.

    Other suffered psychologically at the very least. Exar Kun, brilliant in mind and strong physically, was mad with the Dark Side and miserable.



    In short, if you are not dead or suffering as a Sith then you aren't playing one right.

    Hope this helps some of you Dark Siders out there.

    May the Force 'Serve' You Well ~Cackle~

  50. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    *Uses Force Powers, lifts thread out of the swamp*
  51. Jedi_Linewalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2005
    star 2
    Hi there. I write in the fan fiction sections of the boards, and I've actively played the Star Wars RPG since its first inception under West End Games in the middle 80's all the way up to the current Saga Edition (4th edition) rules by Wizards of the Coast (I've been roleplaying actively and consistently in many different RPGs, beginning in 1974 with the initial release of Basid D&D boxed set). I can certainly identify with many of the things discussed here in a wide variety of RPGs, but especially the Star Wars RPG of any sort.

    Just an opinion on the post about Qui Gon not "getting" the "render aid" and "defend the weak" tenets of the Jedi Code. This is simply my interpretation, view, and do not mean it in any way a detraction of that person's opinion or comment.

    Qui Gon and Obi Wan were two Jedi. Reasonably powerful Jedi, but two Jedi. They would face literally hundreds of individual Hutt crime lords (Jabba in particular who was over Mos Espa at that time), not to mention the thousands of bounty hunters, soldiers, assassins and other sundry stooges that worked for those crime lords if they attempted to either forcibly free the slaves, or if they attempted negotiations and failed.

    Bear in mind, they didn't have anything to barter with in order to obtain a simple hyperdrive from a Toydarian junk dealer. What could they possibly have negotiated with to a planet full of Hutt crime lords that would have appealed to them enough to free their slaves? Probably nothing. If they attempted "aggressive negotiations," I'm sure they would have taken quite a few of the stooges out of the picture, but the result would have been either dead or enslaved Jedi, an enslaved or dead Queen, and nobody's any better off. The tenet states "render aid whenever possible." In this case, rendering aid wasn't possible.

    Ideally, he would have spoken with the Council about this, and they would have spoken to the Senate and someone would have sent an abassador or a commission to obtain the slaves' freedom through negotiation and diplomacy. Remember, Shmi explicitly told Padme "The Republic doesn't exist out here." This means that the Hutt territories, including Tatooine, was beyond the jurisdiction and reach of the Republic. Though the Jedi are touted as the "guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy," they are primarily an entity of the Republic. The Republic encompasses over a million worlds and is spread throughout most of the galaxy, but it is not the galaxy in its entireity. If they had attempted to free the slaves using force, they'd have had no backup or jurisdiction. They'd have been operating outside their area. Therefore, they had to attempt to do so later, with means more endemic to the situation. You can tell by watching Qui Gon's face and listening to his words he wasn't thrilled about being unable to help the slaves, but circumstances were beyond his control at the moment.

    Then to the matter of "defend the weak," you have to consider that though Shmi, Anakin, and other slaves were slaves, they were not being overly mistreated in any discernible fashion. They weren't beaten, they weren't summarily killed, they weren't starved, etc. Their freedom was denied to them, yes, but how many real world slaves do you know who had their own home and house within a city instead of on their owners' property, near their owners' houses? I can't think of any. They weren't in any immediate danger, therefore immediate action wasn't necessary. The petition to the Hutts by the Senate, the Council, or other liaison from the Republic would have served equally as well, and ultimately superior in effect to Qui Gon and Obi Wan attempting to "defend the weak" on the spot.

    Again, you get the idea that Qui Gon wasn't overly thrilled with the situation, but he was wise enough to realize that any attempt at immediate action on his and Obi Wan's part would have simply made things worse. The Hutts would have figured the slaves put the Jedi up to this, and when the Jedi eventually failed, the slaves would have
  52. LightWarden Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2001
    star 4
    Why is it that all of the Jedi characters I see are so eager to break from tradition, get married, and pop out a dynasty of babies which are then raised by their parents and trained into Jedi? Especially in the Old Republic era, you think there'd be more Jedi who were in favor of the orthodox way of raising a child from infancy to serve the Republic.
  53. Ktala Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2002
    star 6
    The Dark Side
    Hmmm..

    I have to chime in on this one! LOL!!

    I agree with what was said so far about Dark force users:
    TO A POINT.

    I can see a player growing with power in the Darkside, and not be maimed and crippled, and such, as they start off. Yes, the more they deal into the Darker aspects of the Force, the more powerful they become, and the more the Darkside feeds off of them as well. But it takes time. Palpy was not a young man.


    I should say that any Dark Sider that is not killed in an RPG is playing a a totally unrealistic game and should not waste their time.



    EVENTUALLY. Why should the character drop dead simply because he is a Dark force user? Now, if your character is trying to channel the energies of the universe through his body, and bend it to his will, yeah...he might have a rather short life span. But if he plays it smart, and does not exert himself except for matters he considers important, he's going to be around awhile. While their MENTAL state might not be the greatest, they are not ready to drop dead just yet.
    =P~

    There are varying degrees of the Dark Force Users, just as their are of Good sided and Grey Force users.


    As with Jedi, strength in the Dark Side comes with time and practice. But unlike a Jedi who's strength in spirit grows over time, a Master of the Dark Side's spirit decays.


    I dont know if I would agree with the term 'spirit', in this sense. As most high level Dark Force Users are using their own will powers to bend the natural order of things to THEIR will, I would guess their spirits are pretty dang strong. Hence, we have a lot of long lasting Sith specters hanging around (Sith tombs and such).

    But using the Darkside to manipulate things, just physically burns them out faster, causing some of the physical descriptions mentioned earlier. The toll is being taken out on the body.

    And in truth, many Dark Force users, will be dead long before they reach THAT type of power manipulations, because they blow their cover, or do something stupid, or dumb luck that gets them killed, long before the Dark Side can do major damage to them. But to those who make that level, then yes, either mental or physically, it will began to take its toll.

    And mental suffering is tricky. For that person, their actions would appear to be quite reasonable for them, while to everyone else, they would quickly see that something is wrong.

    And non-Sith Dark Force users, for the most part, would not have to worry about such issues, unless they began to climb for power themselves. Depends on how much they use the Force, vs using their minds.

    Basically, it all boils down to is on how dependant you are on the Darker side of the Force. The more you use it, the more it will take out of you.


  54. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
  55. Imperial_Hammer Manager Emeritus: RPFs

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2004
    star 5
    Time for the annual-ish bump!

    For the knowledge, interest, and opportunity for contribution of this new group of players.

    -I_H
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