Tired of NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by rogue9, Apr 24, 2001.

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  1. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "Even if we get the scene, it'll be too late. Rebirth takes place NINE MONTHS after BP. A reconciliation scene there after H/L spent all of Conquest off-screen together, would make no sense. I would love it to happen, though it wouldn't be logical. And that's one of the problems with the NJO. This storyline has been completely dropped unfinished."

    The scene will probably be flashbacks, them discussing what happened and why they got back together I'd assume.
  2. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Exactly. Or the book could open with scenes between Han and Leia that take place months before the main action, like during or before the action of Conquest.

    Maybe that will happen. Maybe it won't. But we won't know one way or the other until August, guys.
  3. Adi_Gallia_9 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 5
    While that could easily happen, I not a fan of the flashback. Another thing to add to my list against the NJO :) We'll have to wait untill August, I guess.

    Thanks though, Valiento.
  4. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    What's wrong with flashbacks, practically every Star wars book under the sun had a flashback of some sort, or people commenting one what happened to them before.
  5. sweetheart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    I would love that, but I doubt it would happen. When Kathy Tyers was in her jedinet chat she said something about the full reunion being cancelled, and said "Ouch. Shelly Sharipo says Ouch too."

    That seems to show that it is not appearing, and they realize they gypped the Han/Leia fans.
  6. Adi_Gallia_9 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 5
    Good point, Sweetheart. I guess we won't be getting that scene, now will we?

    As for flashbacks, that is the problem; they are used everywhere. They've become a cliche and I'd much prefer to see something happen first-hand.
  7. sweetheart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 4
    Did I kill this thread?

    I'd hate to see such a good debate end.
  8. Bror Jace Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 3
    I WAS going to just walk away from this thread ... much as Aleja did ... but there are two things I had to respond to:

    First, you can't compare the Ewoks, as annoying as they were, to Jar Jar Binks. The Ewoks served an integral role in the defeat of the Imperial Forces on Endor and we don't see one chumming/clowning around with the main characters for the entire movie. Even Ahmed Best said his character was a "pure comic-relief character" and unlike anything in the previous SW movies.

    and ...

    RAS: "Bror ... you would dead wrong in assuming that Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk fans are not the same demographic as SW fans. They are almost mirror images of each other, age-wise, though SW might have more women (but not as many more as you're probably assuming). Before VP, when Mike Stackpole sat down next to me to sign SW books, while I was signing FR books, the make-up of our lines looked exactly the same, and many of the people went from one of us to the other. And these were honest fans, not just collectors of signed books."

    Oh, and NOW who's drawing conclusions from anecdotal evidence, hmmm? ;) You ACTUALLY think that people who show up at sci-fi/fantasy/comic conventions are accurate representations of Star Wars readers as a whole? ?[face_plain] That may be true of diehard RPGers and comic buyers but Star Wars, even the books, is too mainstream. Many of the 30 and 40-something SW fans I've met online (especially women) wouldn't be caught dead at such a convention. That?s for the younger, more hardcore fans. The ?more mature? fans have careers and families that occupy too much of their free time.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Sweetheart did it!! ;) Okay, well it was nice having RAS here, but c'mon, let's see more of the author's viewpoints, they're interesting. We can hate them and they can hate us if they choose :D.
  10. Ginger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 4
    The question is are you tired of the NJO? My answer is yes I am tired of the NJO.

    I?m another old-time SW fan. I saw ANH when I was 17 back in 1977. Since 1977 I have graduated from High School, graduated from university, gotten married, had two kids, held down a few different jobs. Many things have changed in my life, but I was always a Star Wars fan. I have all of the adult fiction novels up to and including Balance Point. I will not be buying anymore books ever unless things turn-around.

    Though I cared deeply for the majority of the characters, canon and EU, I have always favored Han and Leia both as individual characters and as a couple. My biggest complaint with the NJO is how they are treating my favorite couple. They?ve had to deal with one hardship after another without any good times shown onscreen.

    In Vector Prime, Chewy died. In the DT Han sunk into depression and alcoholism. In AoC, Han and Leia became estranged. I have to admit that this made for an interesting story line. I was actually wrapped up in it. I could not wait to see how things were going to pan out for my favorites. I was not feeling frustrated up to this point. In fact, I particular enjoyed Vector Prime and Hero?s Trial. But then came Balance Point, a book I was looking forward to because Han and Leia were finally going to get a bright spot after a year of bleakness. All I got was 1-½ pages of a luke-warm reunion. Thank you very much. Then it was time for more trauma. Leia was tortured and mutilated. Han and Leia had just gotten back together and now Leia will be undergoing medical procedures for at least several weeks. Balance Point ended with a cliffhanger. Cliffhangers are usually added so that people will want to buy the next book to find out what happened. The next book didn?t even address the cliffhanger. What kind of storytelling is that?

    We may or may not get some bright spots for H/L in Rebirth, but according to the blurb for SBS, Leia will be tormented again in that book. Has anyone stop to think that maybe they are giving these two characters too much dark realism? Maybe Kathy Tyers did not know about the SBS plot, but whoever approved of Leia?s torture in Balance Point must have known. The torture in Balance Point should never have taken place. It?s just too much to endure for me.

  11. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Point taken and noted, but did you really expect them to resolve everything in one, count it, one book? Be real, at any rate Han AND Leia are back together in EoV according to the teasers. So all is well, I like H/L too but please, don't give up on a book series before their problems have been resolved. That's what I hate about the older SW EU readers, they get mad when things don't go their way. Well things have gone their way in the Bantam line and it dried up the SL's of the books. C'mon, just read Rebirth, Im guessing you'll see 'em in it for the most part doing what they do best, helping people.
  12. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    I like Jar Jar Binks, and see him as a character with a lot of potential. He and Anakin start off very similar- both very pure in their inherit Goodness. I think that GL is going to use Jar Jar as a sort of mirror to Anakin. I think that come Episode III at some point, Jar Jar and Anakin will be faced with very similar decisions, and Anakin will go dark while Jar Jar stays light. We'll see Jar Jar, the character who really is a nothing, with no skills or powers or high destiny, taking the hard route, the difficult route, the one that gets him killed. And Anakin, despite his Jedi training, his incredible power, and the prophecies tied to him, will take the easy road, the Dark road, the one that leads to his becoming Vader.

    In the end, I think Jar Jar will die in a rather hopelessly heroic and apparently futile way. However, his death will somehow lead to Amidala escaping Palpatine/Vader, or saving the Twins, or something of the like.




    The Ewoks, on the other hand, are an abombination that are the stuff of nightmares and should never have left GL's twisted imagination.
  13. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Anakin Skysolo wrote:
    "The Solo kids are old enough to play a major role alongside their parents, uncle, and aunt."

    Anakin, I agree with this. Unfortunately, for the most part in the NJO universe, the Solo kids have been playing the major roles INSTEAD of their parents, uncle, and aunt. I have absolutely no objection to having them work together or for all of them to play important, but different roles in the story. Mr. Salvatore did this in VECTOR PRIME. He found ways for all of the characters to contribute. In almost all of the other books though, the younger generation seemed to have all the answers and to do almost all of the exciting and heroic things.

    Anakin SkySolo wrote and Ghengis12 agreed with him:
    "The mains have been in the thick of the action in the NJO, too."

    As I see it, Anakin and Ghengis, Luke, Leia, and Han have APPEARED in most of the books in the NJO series, but they haven't been involved in much of the action. I feel they've played very minimal roles in most of those books. At least Han got his own duology though. Brilliant, gifted, talented, Leia, Jedi and former Chief of State of the New Republic, has spent most of the books since VECTOR PRIME reduced to a shepherd for refugees. While this is a noble task, it's one that almost anyone could have fulfilled. Smart, resourceful, powerful, creative, Jedi Master and Leader, Luke Skywalker, hasn't done one constructive thing since CONQUEST when he freed Jacen and controlled the void. Since then, he has accomplished nothing and seems to be totally clueless and indecisive about his role and that of the Jedi.

    I've also been disappointed in the way the Jedi have been portrayed in this series, as an Order in chaos and embroiled in constant bickering over philosophical differences. Instead of being perceived as the galaxy's heroes and defenders, the Jedi seem to be feared, hated, and ridiculed by many beings. During this time of extreme crisis, during this time of invasion, when they should be leaders in helping to save and serve the galaxy, they've been adding to the galaxy's problems with their internal strife. Luke Skywalker is denegrated by council members and by fellow Jedi, and even his own niece and nephews seem to question his judgment and leadership. It's almost painful to read the pages of the books where Luke appears lately.

    Unfortunately, although I don't really like Kyp Durron, I find myself almost agreeing with him more than with Skywalker about how to deal with the Yuuzhan Vong. At least Kyp's DOING something. Skywalker just keeps dithering and refusing to act or to allow his Jedi to act because he says Jedi can't 'attack'. It seems to me that the Vong are the aggressors here and have already done the attacking. As even young Anakin Solo has figured out, the Vong need to be stopped before they cause more death and destruction. The Jedi would be defending the galaxy and its beings by defeating them and driving them out of the galaxy. Luke should be telling his Jedi that they shouldn't attack and kill the Vong in anger, hatred, or revenge, but because it needs to be done in order to preserve lives. Spouting Jedi philosophy will do little to solve the invasion problem.

    When Yavin was attacked, it should have been Luke Skywalker who went out to save his Jedi students, not Anakin Solo. They were his responsibility. I don't care what dangers were involved or what ' bad feelings' he may have had about going out to rescue them, or what the political ramifications were, it was his duty to go. The Luke of the films and the Luke of VISION of the FUTURE, even the Luke of VECTOR PRIME would have insisted on going, I think. What has happened to this once strong, vital, selfless, courageous character? Unfortunately, I don't recognize the Luke Skywalker character in the NJO series anymore.

    Valiento wrote:
    <<Nothing is wrong, you just weren't aware of his important background to anakin. Those that are will find it sad. >>

    That's my point though, Valiento. I don't think characters from c
  14. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Bror--

    First, you can't compare the Ewoks, as annoying as they were, to Jar Jar Binks.

    Yes the Ewoks played a different role in RotJ than Jar-Jar in TPM. But that's completely irrelevant. I compared fan reactions, not the roles of the characters in the movies.

    It is reactions of some fans that are similar, not the roles of the characters.
  15. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    RAS:

    I don't think the situations of Cilghal and Ikrit can be directly compared. The situations are similar, but different.

    With Cilghal, all you needed to say was that she was the foremost Jedi Healer and that she had been ineffective in combating Mara?s disease. In my mind, that?s really not very different from saying that the foremost medical facilities in the galaxy were unable to help Mara with her disease. We don?t need to know Cilghal at all- she might as well have been a completely new character with no back-story to her. For the purposes of your book, it would have just been a name attached to the title ?Best Jedi Healer in the Galaxy.? For new readers, they see the ?foremost Jedi Healer? part and understand that it?s bad if not even the Jedi best at healing can help. Also, it helps set up her character for future novels. For the readers of the older books, it?s actually repetition of what we already know, but one that no one would mind. It?s enough for us to know that Cilghal at least made the effort.

    With Ikrit, a character seemed to appear out of nowhere and assume a major role. To the best of my knowledge, there was no set-up whatsoever in the NJO for Ikrit. If he was introduced as just another Jedi Master, that would have been fine. But before Conquest, it was understood that Luke was Anakin?s master. And during Conquest, suddenly we discover that this new character is equally important. This teacher that Anakin never went to for advice, this teacher he never even mentioned or even thought about at any time during the NJO. And then a new character suddenly appears and seems to retroactively fill a roll in Anakin?s life that the NJO has led readers to believe that Luke filled.

    That isn?t just name dropping at a convenient interval- this is a giant rabbit bounding around in left field. It?s as if Shira Brie were to be a main character in Repeat and making a heroic sacrifice to save Luke and Mara?s child- it might be nice for her fan (er? fans ;) ) to see her again, but without any sort of lead up in the NJO two things would happen. First, many people would have no idea who the heck she is, and be very confused. Second, any emotional impact that her death would have would be very small. It?s difficult to feel something for a fictional character you don?t know. For characters like Ikrit and Shira Brie, who are only known by a minority of the people reading the books, their deaths would be meaningless. It would be like creating a completely new character, telling us how incredibly important that character is, and then killing him off and expecting a reaction. There will of course be little to none.

    Cilghals name just needed to be dropped. No lengthy explanation was needed, she didn?t even have to be in the book. She?s not important to the storyline beyond the fact that her failure shows to Bantam readers that Mara?s disease is really bad. Ikrit, on the other hand, should have been built up to be a person of some importance in the NJO. It didn?t have to be much. Perhaps a conversation with Anakin in Onslaught or Ruin, and offering advice at one of the Jedi meetings in Balance Point or Jedi Eclipse. Just enough so that we are aware that he exists and that he taught Anakin at one point in time. That he was not is another mark against the consistency of the NJO, and another goof-up on behalf of whoever is in charge.

    Cighal didn't need anything major, Ikrit did. Cilghal didn't get anything, and until Conquest, neither did Ikrit. If anything, it's the same mistake again, rather than two different kinds of mistakes.
  16. ChildOfWinds Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2001
    star 5
    Sorry, Ladies and Gentlemen!

    I hope you don't mind reading a correction post!

    I must have had CONQUEST on the brain today! :) Twice I typed CONQUEST where I should have typed ONSLAUGHT in my last post. My apologies to Mr. Keyes! I discovered my error after it was too late to edit it, so here's the correction:

    Smart, resourceful, powerful, creative, Jedi Master and Leader, Luke Skywalker, hasn't done one constructive thing since ONSLAUGHT when he freed Jacen and controlled the void.

    And:
    Characters who are written as omnipotent can be boring, but characters who are written as always indecisive, failing, and doing nothing are unappealing, and annoying. Unfortunately, I have preceived the Luke of the NJO since ONSLAUGHT as one of the latter.

  17. ReaperFett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    star 6
    My only real gripe is Kyp. I like the Kyp character a lot, but he seems to be jumping a lot. I loved Salvatores portrayal of him, and liked Lucenos, but disliked Stackpoles(only read the first four so far). He seems to be changing in every book
  18. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Bror, your Sith powers of spin never cease to amaze...
    "First, you can't compare the Ewoks, as annoying as they were, to Jar Jar Binks. The Ewoks served an integral role in the defeat of the Imperial Forces on Endor..."

    First off...
    1. Jar Jar essentially served the exact same purpose as Wicket - the point man to connect our heroes with the army which they call on for help. The only difference is that unlike Wicket, Jar Jar is a major character for Episode I (perhaps the prequels). Like the Alliance couldn't defeat the Empire without the Ewoks, our heroes needed the Gungans to run interference for the TFA to allow the others inside the palace. The Gungans an integral role in the defeat of the Imperial Forces on Endor and we see them chumming/clowning around with the main characters about as much as the Ewoks did.

    "...and we don't see one chumming/clowning around with the main characters for the entire movie."

    2. Then you seem to be forgetting ROTJ or are not basing your opinions on what is in the sources (movies, etc.) We have Ewoks cuddling with Han. We have Ewoks doing their best "Three Stooges" impersonations with R2 - where butt-zapping hilarity ensues.

    Your assessment that the Gungans weren't integral or that the Ewoks didn't clown around is simply a fallacy. But, for the most intesting spin...

    "Even Ahmed Best said his character was a "pure comic-relief character" and unlike anything in the previous SW movies."

    Clearly you are taking Ahmed's words out of context. The "unlike anything..." has always pointed to the special-effects wizardry of the character, not a new archetype being added to the movies. Lest you forget all of the hype that was made about Jar Jar. C3-PO and R2-D2 were always intended to be the comic relief characters of Star Wars, going all the way back to the source material their characters were based on. They are no different in concept than Jar Jar, while they may differ in execution. In any case, I seriously doubt that Ahmed meant his words to be used to bash the NJO - a series of books he had yet to see at the time.
  19. Jades Fire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 1998
    star 4
    The Phantom Menace is the first movie to feature the Mythic archtype character of "The Fool", as personified by Jar Jar Binks.

    While 3PO provides some comic relief, he isn't "The Fool" mythic archtype. Threepio and R2 serve the story more as the narrators.
  20. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Jade's Fire...
    "Threepio and R2 serve the story more as the narrators."

    The story (movies) has no narrators. C3-PO and R2-D2 are not telling the story, nor are they certainly not telling the story in past tense.

    For that matter, if anyone remotely could be considered a narrator, it would be a/the Whill whose "journal" the story is supposedly taken from, depending on which account of it you use.
  21. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    RAS,

    Sorry about having misinterpreted your comments in my last post. But I can tie my points into your points rather easily. You were speaking about readers being put out to pasture, while I was talking about characters being put out to pasture.

    I believe that there is a direct correlation between both of these issues. If characters are being put out to pasture, aren't the readers who are fans of those characters also technically being put out to pasture as well. Aren't they in effect being sent a signal that the characters that they have been reading about for years aren't important in the greater scheme of things any longer?
    I remember DL having commented that the more the NJO progresses, the more those of us who have found faults in VP would come to appreciate, and I have to say that I do have a greater appreciation for your novel. While I still have all of its faults clearly in my mind--misuse of shieldships, mischaracterizations of Mara, Luke and Kyp, Lando getting his hands on TIE Advanced X-1s, the manner in which Chewie died, the omission of Cilghal, Mara's disease--I look back upon some other aspects of your novel from the vantage point of Conquest and I sigh nostalgically.

    Han, Luke, Leia, Mara--even Lando--were in the thick of the action in VP from beginning to end, something which has been missing from every post-VP novel. In Dark Tide, Corran Horn was the star of the show, but that really doesn't surprise me. DT was where Luke started to turn into a wimp and now that progression has continued to where Luke is like a monk in Conquest. Luke wasn't a wimp in VP. He was right in the thick of the action, but in books since VP, Luke has been turned into a wishy-washy oaf. All Leia does is shepheard refugees from world to world--oh, and when is the NR going to learn that the Vong are just following the refugees from world to world?

    Luke and Jacen go to Belkadan, which they know is under Vong control. Do either of them even think of bringing some thermal detonators along to do some demolition work? Nor do they think about bringing back samples of Vong biotech. When did Luke have his brain sucked out of his head?

    In VP, you actually portrayed an intelligent Luke Skywalker, while successive novels have portrayed a brainless Luke Skywalker.

    While I totally disagree with the notion of Mara having had the disease you chose to give her, in VP she was seriously ill, yet by the time of Conquest her disease is a total non-issue for her. Her life is no longer hanging in the balance. What happened to this supposedly debillitating disease?

    Where has Lando disappeared to? Where has Danni Quee disappeared to? She plays a major role in VP, we find out she has Jedi potential, Jacen takes a liking to her in Onslaught and then she disappears from the written page. What about the plotline of Luke reestablishing the Jedi Council? With things getting tougher for the Jedi and having fewer friends to turn to, you'd think Luke would just go ahead and declare the Council to be in existence to at least provide the Jedi with some cohesive leadership.
  22. Jades Fire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 1998
    star 4
    Speaking as one who was critical of the lack of mention of Cighal in Vector Prime, I fail to see what RAS's problem is concerning many of the criticisms of Ikrit. There is no inconsistancy in MY criticisms between VP and EOVC. Both Ikrit and Cighal seem to suffer from the same problem -- lack of attention to detail.

    First, Ikrit was in a chidren's series, not a young adult series, and not the adult series; Ikrit was not in any adult books prior to Conquest. Cighal came from another adult series of books. All the critics asked for in VP was a name dropping incident where it was mentioned that Cighal was the foremost Jedi Healer and wasn't able to help with Mara's illness. That's it. Nothing more needed to be said. New readers wouldn't be confused, and Bantam readers would appreciate the information.

    With Ikrit, we have the introduction of an important figure in Anakin's life suddenly thrust upon those who didn't know of his existence. Adults who aren't SW completists (yes, there plenty of people who don't read everything) didn't know who Ikrit was outside of Conquest. Without introducing Ikrit earlier in the series, many adult readers are left with a hollow feeling regarding his death. For all the readers knew, Ikrit was a new Jedi quickly introduced then killed (a recurring theme in the NJO). However, what confuses the reader is the information that Ikrit was Anakin's first Master, a seeming contraction with events in Vector Prime where Luke is Anakin's Master.

    I have no problem with Keyes bringing in Ikrit. Fabulous. As one person said, Greg managed to salvage, and even add to the character. Most of the readers who were really affected by Ikrit's death are those who read the JJK series of children's novels where Ikrit is Anakin and Tahiri's teacher. Nothing wrong with that, their reading experience was enhanced. However, a little bit more attention to detail, and a build-up of Ikrit in previous books would have allowed that emotional impact to be spread to an even wider audience, the audience who felt diminished or let down by the experience.
  23. Dewlanna Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 4
    Gandolf's post covered RAS's earlier Cilghal/Ikrit comments quite well. Jades Fire brought up some important points.
    I'd like to add a point or two and a comment on RAS's Sunday post and his post earlier today.

    RAS<5/20 6:49pm >:Second, some of the previous discussion of Ikrit in Conquest struck me as funny. I got slammed and slammed by several members here for the omission of Cilghal, with many posts claiming that if I had just mentioned Cilghal they would have been satisfied. The argument went that mentioning Cilghal would not have detracted for those who had not read Bantam, and would have added for those who had read Bantam.

    The point people are making about Ikrit is that he is a character from a childrens' story. (Remember he is from the Junior Jedi Knights, books with a 9 to 12 year old reading level, not the Young Jedi Knights with a Middle school/Jr High reading level).
    I see no problem with having a character from one adult novel mentioned in another adult novel. I DO see a problem with a character from a grade school book playing a significant role in an adult novel without that character being previously introduced to the adult readers.


    RAS<5/214:50am>Can't it just be accepted that the inclusion of Ikrit might heighten the reading experience for those who knew Ikrit, without diminishing the reading experience for those who did not?

    Ah, but it DID diminish the reading experience for many of those who did not know about him. They had no idea who he was, why Anakin should be concerned about him, why Luke should be upset at his death, nor why he is referred to as Anakin's master when the only Master Anakin had in the adult literature was Luke.
    Cilghal's situation is totally different. The simple line (not add by you, since you didn't know about her, but perhaps added by an astute editor?) "The best doctors in the Galaxy, even Cilghal, the Jedi healer, couldn't help Mara." If the reader hadn't read any of the Jedi Academy trilogy, they would still know that Cilghal was some sort of Jedi healer and that would be enough.

    It is not unreasonable to expect the readers of an adult book to have read other adult books in the series and, furthermore, Cilghal's mention would not require any previous knowledge to understand her role.
    It is a bit farfetched to expect most adult readers of an adult series to be familiar with the characters in a childrens' series. And Ikrik's importance in Conquest does require some knowledge of his importance to Anakin, to understand Ikrik's role in Conquest.


    RAS<5/20 6:49pm >Maybe (pure speculation) Ikrit was brought in because Greg and/or the editors heard your screams about Cilghal. Damned if you do and damned if you don't eh? Um.. We usually put smiley faces after remarks made purely for their humor. You DID say this in jest didn't you? :)




  24. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    What's wrong with using characters from a children's series? Ikrit was supposed to be a master, and I personally remember several people endlessly crying for Ikrit's inclusion in NJO at these very boards. In fact to the point that it annoyed me. I certainly didn't want some stupid rabbit character ruining my Star Wars. But seriously, what about the kids who had read the kids books. WHy shouldn't something familiar be included from their novels as they star reading the adult novels? The stupid rabbit was used, and used in a scene very similar to ANH where Luke loses Obi-Wan, and guess what? The stupid rabbit is gone. I think it would have been a little different had Ikrit been helping Anakin from beyond the grave.
  25. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Dewlanna:

    The point people are making about Ikrit is that he is a character from a childrens' story. (Remember he is from the Junior Jedi Knights, books with a 9 to 12 year old reading level, not the Young Jedi Knights with a Middle school/Jr High reading level).
    I see no problem with having a character from one adult novel mentioned in another adult novel. I DO see a problem with a character from a grade school book playing a significant role in an adult novel without that character being previously introduced to the adult readers.


    Several points to make...

    1. Ikrit (and Tahiri, for that matter) are both mentioned in The Essential Chronology and other books not specifically aimed at 9-12 year olds.


    2. Greg Keyes was sensitive to the issue of people not being familiar with JJK characters (see his chat, which I've linked a couple times in this thread). He included background information on the characters in Conquest. Not all readers will be satisfied by that background info. That's to be expected. But Mr. Keyes felt that he couldn't "play fair" in a tale about Anakin without including the JJK characters.


    3. Some people will object just as vociferously to including characters from the YJK, Dark Horse Comics, Marvel Comics, or from gaming products and the associated literature. In fact, just last week, connormacleod started a thread in which he complained about comic book references in the novels. Nothing makes the line you draw more the line you would draw more valid, or less arbitrary, than any other line.


    4. LucasFilm treats all its books, comics, and games as part of Star Wars continuity. Anything in that package is "fair game." Not just other adult novels.


    5. Del Rey has listed the Junior Jedi Knights (along with Jedi Apprentice, another series aimed at the same age group) at the beginning of every NJO novel. From the start, Del Rey has indicated that these novels are part of the continuity that precedes the NJO. So readers have had clues regarding the possible inclusion of JJK characters (or YJK characters, for that matter) since Vector Prime.
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