ST TLJ and Rey's vision in TFA

I claim that TLJ is not coherent with Rey's vision in TFA.

In TFA Rey has a vision when she touches the lightsaber. Now, it seemed to me pretty well established that the vision was supposed to be related to Jedi's issues, since it was directly connected with the sword and what it represents.
And this hypothesis is supported by the fact that she actually sees Kylo Ren and Luke and the destruction of the Jedi temple. She even hears Obi-One calling her.

But if this is the case, what is the point of seeing her parents flying away?
I mean, TLJ made it clear that there is no relation between her past and the Jedi. So, after TLJ, that scene in her vision turns out completely out of place, nothing but a sneaky attempt to create a cliffhanger out of nothing.

Also, in the vision she sees Kylo with his armor and his helmet, whereas in TLJ we realize that he still looked like a normal guy during the destruction of the temple.

 

IMO the vision was meant to be more illustrative than literal. I still don't think we should be taking everything we learned about Rey in the last film at face value...unreliable narrators and all that.

 

Ok but it was quite the opposite than illustrative, wasn't it? They showed her parents abandoning her and the destruction of the temple as if there was a connection between the two events.

 

I don't think you see Kylo destroying the temple with his mask on?

 

Maybe. I saw it as being related to the Force 'awakening' in Rey, and having her touch one of the most storied lightsabers, for good and evil, in history.

"Hey, kid, welcome to the fight...here's the Cliff Notes version."

Or they could just be pulling one big red herring on us.

 

I didn't assume any connection for the stuff in the vision. Just a whirlwind of critical Force events.

 

I don't see how there was supposed to be a connection between those things.To me it always seemed like the vision was showing a ton of different stuff, none of which implied that it was all connected. It showed a bit of her past, a bit of her future, some things from Kylo Ren, some from Luke, plus general connections to the force. Not all of these things are linked.

If one wants to come up with a connection, it would be that the destruction of the temple is linked to Kylo Ren, while her family leaving her is linked to her. The connection between those two being the connection between Rey and Kylo Ren, not to the events themself.

 

I definitely implied a connection between the events in the Forceback vision.

Also, the ship leaving (in the vision) isn't the only time we are shown that imagery. Rey also looks up at a ship leaving Jakku earlier in the film as well.

 

I always felt her looking up at the ship leaving in the beginning of the movie as a craving for change/adventure. Like Luke basically did while looking at the twin suns. Her reaction when they go to Maz further shows her genuine amazement at seeing something other than Jakku. Han even looks at her in a sort of sad way that this is the first time she has seen such landscapes.

As far as the ship leaving her when he's young, it shows both her struggle as a child growing up as well as her gaining independence and strength through living a tough and orphaned life basically.

 

That was my favorite scene from TFA.
I see it as a "collection" of Force events, some of them directly connected to Rey.

 

I'm sorry guys but I still don't buy it.
If she was just dreaming in her bed I would agree with you but...
If I see a character touching an object and then suddenly having a vision, it seems to me pretty natural to assume that the content of the vision must be directly connected to the object.

Also, consider the sequence of scenes in Maz's planet. She goes to talk with Finn and Maz asks Han who's the girl. The only thing Han knew, as far as we are able to see, is that she was from Jakku and she wanted to go back there. But then Maz meets her and tells her for sure that "whoever you are waiting will not come back".
The obvious implication seems to me that Han did tell her off screen something that we still didn't know, unless we want to go for the idea that JJ Abrams simply loves to put random lines in the screenplay that have no consequences at all.

 

But her parents leaving her is not a Force event, it's just something important in her biography. There was no reason for her to see it precisely after touching the saber.

 

Well, she is linked to the force.

 

Yes, that's something I reacted to when watching TLJ as well, especially Rey's vision of the Jedi temple slaughter. Johnson doesn't seem to have liked what was in JJ's mystery box and retconned it.

 

I agree. And it shouldn't be that way IMO. They already knew that they were going to make a trilogy. So it would have been better if the big picture was well determined since the beginning, and then the different directors just had the freedom to give the cut they wanted to the narrative they previously discussed.

 

this line is so overlooked but I've always noticed that too and so wish we could see what Han said to Maz.

Much as it bugs me, seems clear now that the flashback scene in TFA is not the same as the scene in which Luke confronts Ben. I forgot where I heard someone say it but it seems to be a scene that takes place between the Luke/Ben confrontation and TFA, a scene in which the Knights of Ren are searching for answers about Luke in a village and killing people along the way.

-T

 

Pablo Hidalgo said several times on Twitter she could have imagined those events or the infamous line of the novel "we'll come back sweetheart".

 

Key to your post is "as if".

The film never said, one way or another, whether Rey's abandonment was connected to the Temple destruction. In fact, after TFA, the prevailing theory was that Rey was there as a kid when the temple was destroyed. And then Bloodline was released and killed that theory.

People have been jumping to conclusions regarding the vision for years. It's always been vague and undefined. RJ definitely could've connected the events. But he chose not too, and it doesn't contradict the vision.

 

Everything about the vision has to do with Luke and Kylo. Exactly what this trilogy is about. It was there all along.

Foolish of us to think this was Rey’s story. It would never be about a random girl in a Skywalker trilogy/saga.

 

Exactly.

The vision now makes sense in light of TLJ.

It shows Rey some of the most painful moments in the history of the people closest connected with the saber; Anakin, Luke, Ben and herself. It also shows moments where each of those parties connected and things took a powerful, life changing turn:

Luke learns the painful truth that Vader is his father.
Kylo destroys the temple after believing Luke tried to kill him.
Rey is abandoned by her awful parents.
Rey and Kylo about to converge in a duel of light vs dark, revealing their symbiotic relationship.

The vision looks BETTER for TLJ, far more coherent. Even if the specific events aren't directly connected.

No it wasn't an "obvious implication". It was an assumption, a wrong one.

Pablo clarified ages ago that all Han did was tell Maz about Rey offscreen, since it's information the audience already knew, and thus would've been redundant to show.

Plenty of people got that the first time around; not all of us made a mystery where there obviously wasn't one.

 

"Contradict" is a strong term in this case. You're right, we cannot say that the vision contradict anything. However, what I'm saying is that the scene of the vision (and in general many things happened in that planet) was devised to suggest that Rey's past and the Jedi are connected. Therefore, even though screenwriters have the sacred right to do whatever they want with their movies, and thus also to move in different directions with respect to what they made the audience suppose, I do feel somehow cheated. More or less like if in an Agatha Christie's book all the clues lead to some logical, intriguing conclusions and then you find out that the truth is something that was completely impossible to foresee and that is not interesting at all.

That's suggestive, but I still don't like it as an explanation. By the way, why should Rey say that she doesn't want to touch the saber anymore if it has nothing to do with any of the sad moments in her past?

 

But if Han just told Maz what we know he knew about Rey, that is almost nothing, how could Maz tell her for sure that the people she was waiting in Jakku would never arrive?

 

Because she's wise and knows the force.

 

You are probably right, but allow me to say that in this case I have the feeling that the Force is starting to be used as a tool for lazy explanations of every thing that does not make much sense.

 

Maz didn't tell her anything. She saw the truth, through her wisdom (and possibly the Force, but you don't even need that fallback) in Rey. The point of the scene with Maz (and with Kylo in TLJ) was to reflect the truth that Rey already knew.

She did the exact same thing with Finn upstairs.

Maz: Dear child, I see your eyes; you already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back. But there's someone who still could.