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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST TLJ Visual Effects/Cinematography/Film Techniques Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by intravenusdemilo, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. intravenusdemilo

    intravenusdemilo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    I was terribly disappointed with so many of the special effects in TLJ. Most of my issues revolve around what appears to bad basic Chroma key effects (green screen). So many effects seemed rushed or incomplete. Even very simple shots like "poe in xwing cockpit" in front of green screen seemed cheap or incomplete. The canto bight horses.....ugh. The escape with Rose and Finn riding looked so so so bad. Of course, the much maligned VERY first shot of Yoda seemed off, as well. There was one cliff side, daytime, exterior shot, of Luke and Rey from far away that had absolutely abysmal keying or compositing.

    Star Wars has a tradition of being on the forefront of visuals and technology. TLJ was a step back from TFA and R1 as far as FX go. Rogue One special effects were nearly flawless.

    I imagine this will get locked or merged....but I swear I searched for an appropriate thread beyond the "general complaints" thread. Does the special effects have its own already?
     
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  2. chris hayes

    chris hayes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2012
    It was not step back & yes this should be in the list your complaints as far as I can see......

    IN B4 ?
     
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  3. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    There was a really bad shot of Rey in the jedi temple.
     
  4. WatTamborWoo

    WatTamborWoo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 22, 2011
    SW under GL always pushed the envelope - he was interested in trying new things. The new ST is not about doing that, as such the special effects are always top notch but not necessarily groundbreaking.
     
  5. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    This film looked great in the theater except for Finn/Rose riding the large horse things. It also has some awesome space combat sequences.
     
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  6. yanote

    yanote Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 1, 2016
    I love the visual effects in The Last Jedi, specially the space sequences and the battle in Crait.
    I don't remember cringing in a particualr scene, all the contrary.
     
  7. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Don't get this complaint. I thought it was easily the best Star Wars visually yet.

    The Holdo suicide scene blew my
    mind.
     
  8. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    One of the coolest scenes in all of SW.

    Just should have been Leia doing it instead of punk rock Holdo.
     
  9. Eternal_Jedi

    Eternal_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2001
    Are we talking about the 3D or regular version of the film?

    I find that converted 3D often makes composited shots look more obvious. I didn't notice any glaring "bluescreen!" Moments in 2 screenings of the regular version.
     
  10. samcj

    samcj Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Is this the shot of Luke and Rey on Ach-to that had bad compositing? They released this still a few weeks before the film came out and I immediately was surprised that not only was this left in the film but used as promotional material this close to the release date. Gotta love the consistency with Mark's hair color from TFA to here, too o_O
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Someone will always find something, whether real or imagined. In 1977, ANH did a great job with bluescreen, but not every shot worked. And mattes and glass paintings were obvious, but well done.
     
  12. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Most of the film looked perfect, except for some of the green screen around some of the characters on the Ahch-To cliff and after the canon was fired on Crait. Nothing looked fake enough to be a problem though. I feel like the main problem with this was because of the background in these scenes being so bright.
     
  13. Vader0706

    Vader0706 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Finally, a thread about the CGI!

    I personally loved the film's CGI. Yep, it wasn't as good as TFA's and certainly not as good as RO's - that film probably has the best CGI of all SW films to date, to the point where some of the shots look photo realistic (the SD's certainly look flawless).

    However, TLJ has some really amazing shots (Holdo's sacrifice, the opening space battle is phenomenal, the throne room sequence, the battle on Crait...). The only bit where the green screen is noticeable is on the cliff on Ahch-To, during the 1st lesson.
     
  14. IlhamKamaruddin

    IlhamKamaruddin Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2017
    The film finished post-production around September, why didn't they give ILM a few more weeks just to put the final touches? Or is it not as easy as I thought it is :)
     
  15. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    TITLE UPDATE.
     
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  16. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Here’s the thing, guys. The easiest way to do special FX is to lack ambition and imagination entirely. Set everything at night. Or on a closed set like a ship. Johnson didn’t do that. He channeled Lucas and let his imagination go free with the Falthiers and there are aspects to that sequence which are beautiful. The camera shot down the corridor with the lights from Rose’s perspective. The shot of them running with the moon behind them. The shot of Rose sending it off on its way. We know they’re alien and unlike anything seen on the planet before so of course we question it. I think that was Rian honoring Lucas and his imagination on the prequels and perhaps Miyazaki to be honest. I liked the shot from the cops perspective. If you want gritty realism than RO has that in spades. It’s more of a war movie than a magical adventure like this though. This dreams bigger.

    I thought the cinematography and shot ideas were amazing to be honest. Some shots I loved in no particular order:

    First order exiting hyperspace as evacuation is happening. Ships appear in sky.

    Similarly, when they jump and FO ships appear right behind.

    Whip pans and tracking of the chaos on the bridge of the Dreadnought as orders are being given out.

    Poe turning sideways and the Tie fighters smashing.

    His trailer u turn moment.

    Paige seeing the body up top.

    Close up of Paige’s eye.

    Dreadnought explosion.

    Shot of the bombs gliding down their racks and being propelled out.

    Opening wide shot of Snoke throne room.

    Superemacy hyperspace jumping into frame from low shot looking up.

    Low angle Sergio Leone side profile shot of Snoke zapping Kylo Ren.

    Tracking shot of the Casino.

    Aerial shot of ancient Jedi huts.

    Shot of Luke vaulting almost like his rope swing with Leia.

    Porg Nest on ledge as he looks up.

    Rey spotting tree from afar over shoulder.

    Fog around tree.

    Light on books.

    Practical effect of Falthiers pushing their faces out over doors.

    Close up of Rey off to the far left as she talks to Luke.

    Milk tracking down to space goat utters. Makes me smile.

    Rey practicing her fighting as she had on Jakku but slicing through the stone. Wide shot as Luke looks on.

    Kylo Ren’s ship entering the corridor and shooting.

    The shot of Poe’s reaction as he’s blown back hard and BB8 slams against the wall.

    Kubrick-like perfectly centered shot of Dark Side hole with ravines as camera moves up to it like something out of the Shining.

    Terrence Mallick-like shots of flowers and bones during Force explanation lesson.

    Low angle looking up inside Temple to show its high roof.

    Cut to outside to highlight its geography.

    Sunlight on faces during meditation spot.

    Shot of Luke walking past camera with fish over shoulder.

    Shot up high of Rey sleeping on rocks.

    Fire light on Chewie and the
    Porgs.

    Low angle shot at casino table with master code breaker.

    Rey hand out catching rain off Falcon and smiling.

    Kubrick-like centered shot of Ben and Rey touching hands.

    Hut exploding around Luke from low angle as Luke reacts to seeing Ben again.

    ROTJ-style tracking shot as Luke pulls makeshift weapon and Rey attacks Luke and Luke spars and attempts to dodge her. Luke removes low damage weapon from her as though to say enough. Rey pulls saber and Luke realizes he’s not going to escalate this further like what happened before.
    Shot of probe popping out after Rey tells Chewie to hold at rendezvous point and gets into shuttle.

    Ren’s busted helmet.

    Close-ups on eyes when they seem like gateways to the soul.

    Seeing hyperspace out of windows.

    Seeing outside shots of characters looking out windows.

    Wide shot of Supremacy hanger. The depth of soldiers and weapons is stunning.

    Shot of the irons after Finn, Rose and DJ have put on their uniforms.

    BB9E high angle shot assessing them.

    Medium high angle looking down into the tracker system hole.

    Leia coming in with low angle Terminator style door entrance and blasting Poe.

    Low centered shot of executioner troopers stomping up.

    BB8 controlling the AT-RT and stomping toward the camera.

    Kids love this reveal every time I see it.

    Side angle crouching tiger hidden dragon shot of Finn jumping and swinging his weapon against Phasma.

    Shot of Finn rising on girder and smashing Phasma in the face.

    Close up of Phasma’s eye through the smashed helmet as her floor collapsed and flames engulf her.

    Iron Giant/Ents in LOTR type shot of Rose and Finn with BB8 stomping around.

    All aspects of the Throne room scene but specifically:

    Snoke face to face with Rey.

    Snoke sliding Rey up.

    Snoke sending the saber around and hitting her with it.

    Snoke levitating her. Snoke in throne bottom left. Rey up top right on screen.

    Shot of her arched back screaming with Snoke laughing from his throne.

    Shot of Snoke relishing all the death outside his ship and before him next with Rey about to die (in his mind) and the low angle shot of Kylo Ren’s hand turning slightly.

    Shot over Snoke’s shoulder as saber quietly spins.

    Snoke reaction shot and slow move down.

    Snoke toppling over as the camera stays in position and the saber returns to Rey’s hand entering frame is one of my all time favorite shots in the history of Star Wars.

    Praetorian Guard battle begins.

    All aspects of this are beautiful. So much perfection here. Tapestry catches fire. It’s nerdgasm stuff.

    Center shot of saber with both pulling so hard they slide apart.

    Holdo turning the ship around and the view from the bridge.
    Hyperspace.

    4 great views of the Supremacy smashing to silence.

    Establishing shots of Crait. Almost feels like the Wall in GOT. Huge wall and no objects but flat white. Not blue like the Wallis though.

    Leia looking out at the brightness as battle begins and ship slides into hanger bay with Leia blasting away at it.

    The reflection of the sun off the salt on Crait illuminating everything with an almost heavenly glow and that being contrasted by the red soil.

    Rickety Skier hovering down into frame.

    Shot from inside trench up at Tie fighters.

    Shot of tie fighters obliterating trench.

    Close up from low as a piece of metal falls out from Poe’s skier.
    Wide shot of all 13 skiing in.

    Finn’s gun melting as he approaches the ram.

    Falcon Shadow appearing after we hear tie fighters being blasted.

    Falcon entering mine.
    Refraction of light in mine and stalagmites crumbling.

    Falcon bursting out and red material flying into the sky.

    Luke walking out through hole in wall into heavenly light.

    Sergio Leonie style Luke and Kylo stand-off right down to the closeups on the eyes as light reflects off the salt and feels like a battle between heaven and hell with red behind them. Just crazy visuals here. Feels like dusk too.

    Crystal critter sneaking through rock.

    Rey perspective of rocks centered.

    Light on each face as Rey lifts rocks.

    Side shot as Luke fades.
    Close up, centered shot of Luke opening his eyes and back shot of him coming down from levitation.

    Using same 1970s technique used for Kenobi disappearing for Luke.

    Binary sunset shot.

    Shot of all on Falcon with low angle reminiscent of Luke’s first training.

    Broom boy walks out of stable with stars in the sky. Feels like a Dickens monent. Force pulls broom. Raises it. See the Rebel ring. Broom up high. Ship hits hyperspace.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  17. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Add Luke standing in front of the Rebel base door. It is a wide angle shot which gives a huge sense of scale, with the added drama of smoke and fire.
     
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  18. Ghost Ryder

    Ghost Ryder Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    The POV shot inside the trench (at the start of the battle) has some of that gritty vibe. It's brief, but I love that there's a moment for it, an extra bit of grounding juxtaposed with the design of Crait, the speeders, etc.
     
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  19. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Yeah and Poe sliding back into the trench and getting through that door was cool too.
     
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  20. cut-of-space

    cut-of-space Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2017
    I actually really liked the cinematography in TLJ! It was a feast for the eyes (even though it was a famine story-wise, but that's a complaint for another thread.) I'll admit that the aesthetics were undeniably beautiful. Here are a few tidbits that come to mind:
    • Space jewelry!
    • All the scenes of Snoke's red throne room, breathtaking stuff.
    • Luke's fishing scene stood out to me, it was zen-like, yet epic.
    • The "ship" that turned out to be an iron, just loved that detail!
    • Those crystal critters were the most beautiful creatures of any Star Wars film.
    • Holdo's kamikaze scene with the ship split in half, paralleling Anakin's lightsaber getting torn in half. Unforgettable.
    • Everything about the white and red contrast on Crait, especially the close up of Kylo's boots making streaks of red in the shape of painterly brushstrokes... Ooh. I get chills just thinking of that.
    Some visuals that fell flat for me:
    • The fathiers running looked weird to me in some bits.
    • Leia's space scene....
     
  21. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Yeldin deserves an Oscar nomination. However, I think Deakins deserve the award.
     
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  22. Jordan1Kenobi

    Jordan1Kenobi SWC Jedi Draft Champion star 6 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    Ah, good. It includes cinematography now. This film had some of the best cinematography I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen a lot of good cinematography.

    The shots of the AT-M6’s are stunning, especially when they’re standing in front of Luke looking down on him with the sun blazing behind them. That particular shot is amazing. In fact, the entire Crait sequence is stunning.

    And of course, I can’t not mention the lightspeed attack scene. Wow.
     
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  23. redxavier

    redxavier Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2003
    It's not really until the bluray comes out that we can really delve into the cinematography, complete with examples to show what we mean, but in the meantime, there are a lot of shots in this one that I find to be really good. The way that the lift doors behind Rey's worried face open up to reveal Snoke and his cavenous throne room. Kylo turning around as he chokes Hux amongst the ruins of the throne room. Kylo's run at Luke on Crait and the samurai duel swipe he makes. The simple way that the Force Skype shots of Kylo and Rey work.

    There's only two shots that I dislike that I can remember at the moment - the clothing iron shot because it's just too silly and out of place, and the Canto Bight slave boy close up after he gets knocked down (it's too intensive and jarring a shot given that our previous perspective was at a distance from Finn's pov).
     
  24. intravenusdemilo

    intravenusdemilo Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Well, I started this thread as a visual effects thread. The title of the thread has since been changed to incorporate cinematography as well. So, let me add, my thoughts concerning the cinematography are very very positive. Fair warning...I'm the camp of those that generally do not like this film. However, I think RJ and his collaborators did a excellent job with the look of the film. The cinematography, the direction (particularly of action scenes) was done very very well. Of course Holdo's hyperspace sacrifice is a stand out.

    And I loooove the low angle from behind Luke as he's staring down the giant walkers. An old technique, but the way they make Luke appear in the foreground to be just as tall as the walkers was really fun.

    Another shot/VFX that didn't work for me was space Leia. I don't mind that she can use to force to survive the explosion and space. I truly don't mind it. I'm buying what the writers are selling. But it just loooooked so bad to me.
     
  25. Siphonophore

    Siphonophore Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2003
    This might not fit into this thread quite right, but I liked the texture of the Crait base's wall. It reminded me a bit of something by surrealist Zdzisław Beksiński.
    [​IMG]
     
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