To be a Jedi...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Qui-Demera, Mar 21, 2005.

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  1. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    ... isn´t that a kind of religion? It is just a great philosophy, an as I´ve written in my profile, if people were more like Jedi the earth would be a much wiser and more peaceful place.

    On the other hand, there also are the Sith, and they are more of a martial kind... so what is that? A kind of religious war?

    Your Opinion?
  2. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Interesting way of looking at it if this is to be a discussiong about religion and conflict.

    The Sith have a Jihad against the Jedi, that much is clear.
    They are two opposite sides of the same coin.

    -Seldon
  3. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    True... but what do you think according to our Society? Would something like a Jedi Philosophie help to keep peace and freedom?
  4. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    The Sith have a Jihad against the Jedi, that much is clear.


    The word "Jihad" actually means "struggle", and is not in itself a "Holy War", although it is interpreted in that way by some extremists. Jihad mostly means a "struggle towards inward spiritual enlightenment" - just like the Jedi.
  5. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah, I've heard of the many meanings of Jihad, when applied to the Sith...I was using the common definition of it being a Holy War. When I say common, this translates into what most Westerners think of the word.
    The common definition would be different for Muslims, obviously.

    -Seldon
  6. DarthyMarkyMark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 4
    Yeah, I see what you mean. :)

    As for the Jedi philosophy ... well, I there's one thing I think society needs to learn, it is compassion. We live in a generally selfish and greedy society, unfortunately, especially since the 1980s, and selflessness is something that needs to be re-learned. Jedi philosophy is based around a universal compassion, a social committment, and some Jedi, like Qui-Gon Jinn, take this even further, by helping the living beings they come across as much as they can.
  7. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Lucas is really preaching selflessness. It is evident when Anakin says "Mom, you say the biggest problem in this universe is that no one helps each other."

    -Seldon
  8. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    That is a good statement! What should I say... Qui Gon is the best Jedi for that example... and he is a good reason to think about the Philosophy in a serious way.

    It is much more like a movie... an I think, George Lukas knows that.
  9. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Same thoughts at the same time! :D
  10. severian28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    You really could view Jedi vs. Sith as Christianity, which in its most basic form is really the first religion to introduce a complete strive to non-violence doctrine in written history that we know of versus the more archaic and brutal religions of human history. Im not religious at all, so dont view that statement as a flame of any sort towards religions such as Judaism or Islam. Although some of their practices could apply, I was really thinking more of the Aztec, Egyptian, Greek, and the plethora of other ancient religions that had barbaric doctrines. I seriously doubt, however, that this metaphor was very high on Lucas' list of priorities concerning SW, if it was even a priority at all. " Jedi " and " Force " definitely have pro-spiritual conoctations - just how deep will probably forever be a mystery unless Lucas writes a non-fiction book or something detailing his own Saga of him making SW.
  11. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Well. I think, that Lucas actually DID have a special meaning for Jedi Knights. They represent something honourable, justice and good. That was Lucas´ aim, I suppose.

    And it is not that bad to make your thinking about it. You know, I am jewish, but I think, that you always can improove things; religions, too!

    The Jedi Philosophy is - at least - remarkable. So if George Lukas wanted it or not: He created a kind of Philosophy.
  12. AlrikFassbauer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2003
    star 4
    I remember having read somewhere that during production if TESB Lucas and ... I don't remember the name of the person who directed the movie ... discussed about the philosophy itself, and took several things from asian philosophy. Into Star Wars. Especially into the Jedi Philosophy, because of Yoda and his motivations.
  13. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    Sorry, as honorable as the Jedi are, they are still led by 12 blind swordsmen who seek only to placate, never to resist. This is not a strength. Had the Jedi council been involved in negotiation with Adolph Hitler, he would have gotten whatever he wanted, and we'd all be speaking German right now (no offense to any German people who may be posting on this board-I love the German language and studied it for 3 years in college). A more moderate organization would be better. It would need to draw on both sides of the Force, since the dark side is only as evil as the intent of the user (Luke force chokes Gammorreans in Jabba's palace--is he a Sith?).
  14. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Ohoho... I would not be that fast.

    Think about Jedi Knights like Qui Gon Jinn. He would have done something against Hitler. Also Obi Wan would have done something against him, so would Yoda.

    And then remeber the Mandalorian War; Revan, Malak and many Jedi went into fight to help. Some of them fell for the dark side, but many Jedi returned and stayed what they always had been: Jedi.

    That Judgement of yours is - in that context - not completely right.
  15. ShrunkenJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2003
    star 5
    In the context of the film, though, there is a lot to suggest that the PT Jedi were out of balance with the Force... they were blinded by the Dark Side, and of course the Chosen One (Anakin) came and apparently wiped out the Jedi before he did the same to the Sith.

    And then, (although I am not very familiar with EU...) Luke starts his own Jedi Academy on slightly different principles, some being that they are allowed to marry, and they fight more. Right?
  16. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    to Qui-Demera:
    Let me say first that it was totally cool that you mentioned KOTOR without any kind of "EU may or may not be canon" style of disclaimer.

    Revan (the most forward thinking Jedi ever) and Malak (a punk and glorified flunky who is all martial and no art) went and fought and brought many Jedi with them. However the 12 blind swordsmen on the council were DEAD SET AGAINST IT. All the Jedi who went were looked down upon. I don't know of a single Jedi who fought at Malacor V and didn't die or fall to the DS-except for Exile, but that was for a totally different reason. Who were they? (I'm not saying your wrong, but who were they?)

    Yoda and Obi are very traditional Jedi. I don't believe they would have actively resisted Hitler as he annexed more and more territory. They would have fought after the invasion of Poland, but only because Hitler "started it." Qui-gon, whom I believe WOULD have joined Dooku had he still been alive, definately would have tried to resist Hitler before the outbreak of full scale war. This is why a more moderate organization would be better in today's world, rather than the Jedi council we see in movies and EU. Traditional "light side" Jedi are just too passive.
  17. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Were there any problems with others from Europe? :(

    I think Qui Gon only would have joined Count Dooku if he had not had any contact to Darth Sidious.

    Qui Gon hated the Dark Side; he was a Jedi as I imagined them to be. Only because we don´t know about the fate of the many Jedi who faught on Malachor V we cannont be sure, that all of them were lost.

    In fact in times of Mandalorian wars the Jedi Council was too calm and did not care about anything else than their own concerns (in so far, Kreia/ Darth Traia was right).

    But don´t forget: There were many young Jedi whom we didn´t got to know in the two KOTOR parts. What is about them?

    If I would be living in that time at that place I´d probably act like Revan without falling for the Dark Side.
  18. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    I don't think there is any evidence that Qui-Gonn hates the dark side, and if it furthered his means he would embrace it; however, I do not think Qui-Gonn is evil or would have become a Sith Lord and try to rule the galaxy. I would consider him the closest to a "grey Jedi" like Jolee Bindo we've seen in the movies. A council made up of Jedi like Qui-Gonn, that was not afraid of the means if it achieved the desired ends, would be much better than the conservative and reactionary ones we've seen.
  19. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    True.

    But I think, Qui Gon would neither use the Dark Side nore fell for it. Jolee Bindo, I know him from KOTOR; when could you see him at the movies?
  20. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    Sorry, I meant Qui-Gon was the only grey Jedi to be in a movie. As far as using the dark side, I think he would and that any Jedi would if it was required. I think of the Force as being amoral. It's what you do with it. If you use force lightning to cook a burger, are you a Sith or Dark Jedi? I don't think so. Luke used force choke on the two gammorreans in Jabba's palace, and he's the savior of the Jedi Order.
  21. Kotzenjunge Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 2
    I've adopted a sort of Jedi look on life recently, except a much more Earthly approach (although while high I try and put thoughts into other peoples' heads and ask if they see the same thing I see).

    It's called The Flow. We'd call it Intuition or Luck normally, but nothing is by chance. Feeling, rather than thinking. Those who go with their "instincts" become more successful than those who try and push to force things. Everything is a sign for you to follow whatever path The Flow figures you should take. It's more optimistic than Fate in that it allows you to make decisions and does its damndest to keep you from making negative ones, whereas Fate would say that you were supposed to make the negative ones. There's more choice involved. Instead of using the Force, go with the Flow. Surely you've noticed that certain things felt right to do for that initial split-second, but after you put some thought into them you end up not doing whatever it is but it ends up being a poor choice. The Flow was telling you what to do, and you just went against it. It'll also eliminate a lot of stress in your life.

    I've discovered that I'm a little more apt to feel the will of the Flow whenever I force a chill through my body and (I know it's really nerves tingling) really feel something being poured into me. For a while after I do that, things just seem to work. Like, everything. My timing is fabulous on jokes, I'm more verbose, I always seem to say the right thing, have a better feeling in motions I make, all that.
  22. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    @Jango

    I think you are right so far. The character is the important thing. When somebody is a good guy down to his core he can use dark forces without beiing turned to it.

    @Junge

    That sounds interesting. If you are able to listen to yourself and your soul it is a great thing; and you can do much morethan many other people.

  23. aussietiger Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2005
    "This is not a strength. Had the Jedi council been involved in negotiation with Adolph Hitler, he would have gotten whatever he wanted."

    This is no different to what REALLY happened. Up until Germany invaded Poland, other european powers idly sat by and watched as Hitler invaded neighbouring countries. In 1936, the Nazi's took back the Rhineland, which, since WWI, had been occupied by France. Later, in 1938, Hitler absorbed Austria and the German dominated Sudetenland area of Czechoslovakia into the German Third Reich.
    All the while, european powers such as Britain and France GAVE IN to his demands, hoping that it would temper Hitler's territorial ambitions. It was not until Hitler set his sights on Poland that Neville Chamberlain [then English Prime Minister] declared that Britain would guarantee Poland's independence, and would come to her aid if attacked. This was the first sign of action against Hitler, and it was in March 1939. That's a full 3 years after Hitler's invasion of the Rhineland.

    I'm sure that if Revan and Malak hadn't gone out to fight the Mandalorians when they did, and the Mandalorians had been allowed to keep attacking worlds, that eventually the Jedi Council would have agreed that the Mandalorians must be stopped, and gone to war with them. Because of Revan and Malak and their followers, we'll obviously never know.
  24. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    to the above poster:

    That was, pretty much, my point. Looking back, it would have been more accurate to say Hitler STILL would have gotten whatever he wanted. I also agree that the Jedi Council wouldn't have acted until open warfare began in, either, the Mandolorian War or WWII.
  25. Qui-Demera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    That is, why I wanted a Jedicouncil wich is wise BUT wich does not wait, until people suffer that much as in both wars.

    The worst thing to do is to do nothing...
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