Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before-DS9 A Time toStand,Rocks&Shoals,VOY Revulsion,Raven

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest, Jun 25, 2006.

  1. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Yep, I was thinking of that ep too. So in my mind with the Dominion declaring war on the Alpha Quadrant, it gave those Klingons who earned to return to the old ways of battle and conquest a rallying cry to which Gowron listened too.
  2. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I just finished watching For The Uniform. Holy crap, Sisko is terrifying when he's angry. I think that's my new favorite DS9 episode.
    The2ndQuest likes this.
  3. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    So I just got to "Blaze of Glory", and there's something that bugs me about Eddington. Back in "Die is Cast" he takes it upon himself to sabotage the Defiant's cloaking device in order to prevent Sisko from disobeying Starfleet's orders and going off to rescue Odo and Garak. Apparently this is a guy who supposedly believed in strict obedience to orders from one's superiors. Then later it turns out he's a Maquis mole who despises everything the Federation stands for? Those two characterizations seem pretty difficult to reconcile.

    Anyway now I'm watching "Empok Nor", and got a good chuckle at the beginning as a bunch of obvious redshirts join O'Brien and Garak on board the runabout.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  4. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Well Garak is a Cardassian (and an exiled spy) and Odo has the double whammy of being both a Founder as well as a chief police officer for one of the Cardassian's installations during the last years of the Cardassians occupation of Bajor. Plus, Eddington was undercover! It was kind of important that he not necessarily tip his hand to Sisko or his Starfleet superiors that he wasn't exactly on the Federation's side. So if keeping his cover meant a former Cardassian spy and a Founder that worked for the Cardassians for a time happened to die, then I'd presume Eddington would percieve that to be a plus.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  5. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    I finished my mega marathon of DS9 today. I started watching on Christmas Day, and it has been such an awesome roller coaster ride over the past four and a half months. I'm not ashamed to admit I got choked up during the various characters' flashbacks at the end, and Kira and Odo's goodbye was so powerful.
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    FYI- Update by week's end.
    Darth_Omega and Juliet316 like this.
  7. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    [IMG]
    The Founder is wise!
  8. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    I think I just found my favorite episode: The Magnificent Ferengi [face_laugh]
  9. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Yeah, overall that was one of the funniest DS9 episodes. But the absolute funniest moment in any DS9 episode was when Worf snapped Weyoun's neck, with Damar laughing over the corpse.
  10. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Ahh!! Noo! Teh spoilers...they burn!
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Let's get rrrready to rummmmmmble!



    DS9 510: Rapture
    -Premise: On the eve of Bajor's entry into the Federation, Sisko locates the ruins of the ancient lost city of B'hala on Bajor. As the visions that are guiding him prove potentially fatal, Sisko must choose between faith and his life.

    [IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: The First Contact uniforms debut here- wonder if they'll actually comment on it or just let it go unexplained? Ah, here we are: "Does my uniform seem brighter to you?" well, actually, no, it doesn't, the opposite, really.

    Sisko is going a tad CEOT3K on us. Bajor approved to join the Federation- I'm glad they advanced that subplot and didn't leave it as status quo.

    "'Welcome Klingons'?"
    "I see you're prepared for anything.".

    Kai Wynn returns, as does Sherri Palmer. It almost seems like they're trying to redeem Kai Wynn to some degree...but we'll see if that holds by episode's end.

    I see the Admiral's unform and his aide's still stick to the TNG style- I'm guessing gradual phase in? That spire looked much bigger in the image. The Admiral and Sisko deal with the semi-craziness in an admirably subdued, mature and uncampy manner.

    Well, that ended up being a better episode than I had anticipated based on the obvious Bajor implications of the title. A little dissapointed they had to backpeddle on the Federation joining, though. Still, I quite enjoyed Sisko's obsession and most of his journey here. Since I have to assume the rest of these prophecies will play out, Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Considred part III of the Emissary Trilogy (following Destiny & Accession). The writers and producers were surprised at how well this episode was recievd by fans, given the unpopularity of Bajoran religion episodes amongst fans and the studio.

    Apparently the CEOT3K but was intentional nod. The decision not to comment on the events of First Contact was intentional, as Ira Steven Behr was not happy with how the Defiant had been used in the film ("I didn't see the point in bringing it on just to kick the crap out of it").

    (obligatory "BAH! Memory Alpha spoilers!" complaint)



    DS9 511: The Darkness and the Light
    -Premise: A hidden enemy systematically murders Kira's old Resistance comrades.

    [IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "Fine. I'll borrow it from Quark- he likes me."

    Oof. transporter accidents simply don't get prettier. These remat devices seem like something that should be used (or at the very least, intercepted/counteracted) more often. One observation this "don't know who is in the room" scenario kinda highlights...when all doors are powered, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to make a silent entrance/exit- the other person will always hear the vrooomsh of the door motors.

    "Yeah, yeah, I'll be outide if you need me." poor Brillgar, give that man a raise or at least a day off.

    The idea of using Nog/a Ferengi for audio analysis... makes a ton of freaking sense. Get that kid to a comms station.

    Poor Brilgar.

    "I know what the difficulties are. You have your orders. Dismissed."

    It also talks like Buffalo Bill.

    Kira's closing speech is a bit too much but it's brevity makes it forgivable. Only beaming up four? Just gonna leave the body there?

    Really like these two shots of the Defiant. Nice beauty shots that I don't recall seeing them use before.

    So, yeah, that was a pretty great episode. I think it's only shortcoming was that Kira eliminated 3 names on the list and the first one she visits is the suspect. A but too lucky, there. I think the story would have been even better if the "hunt" phase of the story had been expanded slightly. Still, that one coincidence aside, it's still a very good episode. Not specifically tied to anything, though (the resistance members killed here previously appeared in Shakaar, though, so depending on how I ultimately judge that e[pisode, one might argue otherwise, still, this episode is not dependent on having seen Shakaar), so it's just a Good Episode But Not Necessarily Essential (sill, highly recommended).

    Trivia: Originally based off of "And Then there Were None". One of Moore's favorite episodes that he worked on. The first episode of ST to be directed by Mike Vejar since TNG: Coming of Age, and would remain a regular director for the rest of the franchise. That probably explains why this episode was so good- Vejar was consistently one of the best B5 directors during that show's run (the man loves screens-projected-on-face shots...).



    VOY 313/314: Alter Ego
    -Premise: Tuvok and Harry Kim become interested in a holodeck character who is more than she seems.

    [IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: There's that inversion nebula. This opening shot of Voyager is curious... did they start with the model and seamlessly merge to the CGI model? Regardless of which it is, as it starts to pull further away, the ship looks really smooth- and I mean it literally looks smooth, as if it were early CGI.

    Vulcan Jenga? ok, Vulcan Chess apparently..

    "You are in love with a computer subroutine?" well, we've just established that Harry either should never have access to internet porn or he REALLY needs to.

    The potential application of the plasma reaction mumbo jumbo is actually interesting- though i doubt we'll see it brought to full effect- the idea that Trek could be robbed of it's warp core breach storytelling device holds promise (of course, they'll just have the any anti-breach technology fail just as often as the warp core ejection systems...).

    The idea of having Trek's discoveries actually being implemented, showing their evolving knowledge base, really holds promise for the franchise if were to ever be properly executed (i suppose one could say that Stargate did this quite well, on the whole).

    "Your turn."

    Nice to have a reminder that there are other Vulcans onboard.

    Well, about halfway through this episode is a curious one.. it starts off campy in that "Trek tries to do love advice" kind of way, which is focused by the expected Vulcan responses on emotion (responses that sound ridiculous and just a wee bit nerdy when repeated by Harry, i might add), but then starts to become rather interesting and different as it focuses on Tuvok and this holodeck girl... though it's threatened to be undone by the seeming inevitability of them trying to force some kind of love triangle wedge between Tuvok/Harry/her even if unintentional... so, we'll see if it gives in to that temptation or not... as that will likely determine the fate of the episode.

    Aaand there it is.

    Really, it's worse than I expected. I assumed Harry would walk in and either see the holo kiss Tuvok or hold his hand or do something that, without context, Harry could misconstrue. Instead Harry blows up over something completely stupid even with Tuvok providing the context (he even deletes the damn holo program).

    Gah. this episode makes me dislike Harry. I bet the real Harry who died would have responded better.

    The idea of another hologram jacking the Doctor's mobile emitter is actually a neat premise. Given the promise of the mobile emitter, it's actually rather fitting that they do a callback to TNG: Ship in a Bottle... crap, I'm starting to like the episode again.

    the ambush on the holodeck, with the use of forcefields and such, actually harkens back to the early Voyager's "Next-Next Generation" vibe.

    Starts to lose it's brownie points with the sublimation to the "or I'll destroy your ship" ultimatum. I really want the next scene to be Janeway saying "The hell you will. Computer: activate Norton.".

    The end scene isn't bad, though I'm sort of disappointed it's not a hologram AI afterall.

    Well...Harry really comes close to sinking this episode, but it does recover rather well, thanks to Tuvok and the brief (if unnecessary) action sequence). Good Episode (barely), But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: Directed by Robert Picardo (the women now make so much more sense now- "I got to shoot as many takes of that as I wanted. Since I've started directing, I've had the chance to use myself the way I prefer to be used, which is structly as a sex object. I'm hoping the other directors will take note!".

    Originally was to focus on Paris and Kim. Tim Russ expressed concerns to the writer before the episode was written, providing direction about the nature of Tuvok's interest in Marayna being purely intellectual. Several cast and crew compared the episode to Fatal Attraction. Midway through the 4th season, Russ listed this epiosde as one of 5 episodes with defining moments for Tuvok. Garrett was ill with the flu during the shooting of this episode.




    VOY 314/313: Fair Trade
    -Premise: A meeting with an old friend lands Neelix in an ever-deepening hole of trouble.

    [IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "They look rather ominous to me."
    "I believe this is a region of space known as the Nekrit Expanse."
    "Oh, well, we'll just maintain course right through it then."

    They actually do a good job of making this station look populated. I like that they're exploring the limitations of Neelix's knowledge. There would logically be a point that he hadn't traveled beyond before. Making this Expanse sort of the literal wall to what is known and what is unknown is a nice concept. If this pans out, it'll help drop the familiar-stomping-grounds vibe the series has had to this point, and make things feel more into-the-unknown (well, at least until we hit the Borg and everything becomes familiar again ;)).

    "The warp plasma- where is it?" I dunno, maybe it's in the large, glowing container the guy you're asking is holding?

    Interesting coincidence, I wonder, that Janeway brings up "the first duty" in the same epiosde that briefly brings up Tom's troubled past which is kinda-sorta-the-same as not-Tom Paris in TNG: The First Duty.

    So, that was probably the best Neelix episode they've done. The alien designs/makeup were suitably diverse, if not particularly memorable. Since the expanse holds the promise an important stepping stone in Voyager's journey (moving beyond Neelix's knowledge) I'm going to go and say this one is Potentially Essential (of course, if the Expanse plays a bigger role in episodes to come, then it can be upgraded).

    Trivia: Originally developed for the first season, this episode was kept back so that Jetrel could be produced instead. The episode finally came about by combining the Carlito's Way story with Voyager reaching the edge of Neelix's knowledge.

    Written by Star Trek science consultant Andre Bormanis, who was able to leverage having read every draft of every script for TNG, DS9 & VOY as science consultant for writing the teleplay. Bormanis would subsequently write 6 other VOY episodes and join the writing staff of Enterprise.

    A deleted scene was filmed giving closure to Kes and Neelix, but was cut for time. This is one of only two episodes (alongside Blood Fever) where Harry does not appear. Janeway's line about "the first duty" is the same line Picard tells Wesley in the episode of the same name.

    This was the first episode of Voyager to air after First Contact's release and the airing of DS9: Rapture (which introduced the FC-style uniforms). As a result, this is the episode where Voyager's uniforms have become outdated. Ethan Phillips apparently hadn't watched this episode in it's entirety until Nov of 2003 for a college appearance.


    DS9 512: The Begotten
    -Premise: Odo receives a sick infant Changeling from Quark and tries to teach it to shapeshift without resorting to the invasive techniques used by his old mentor, Doctor Mora. Meanwhile, Major Kira gives birth to the O'Briens' baby.

    [IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Baby Changeling. Well, we've had a baby Jem'Hadar. Now we just need a baby Vorta.

    Dr Mora mentioned. Kira has gone into labor- so it's been several weeks since the last episode. Dr Mora returns. The various tests are interesting.

    It's certainly the better of the two Mora episodes. I was initially going to say this was Potentially Essential due to the birth of O'Brien's child and the stand-alone nature of the baby Changeling plot, however the return of Odo's shapeshifting abilities is obviously important, so, Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The last scene was rewritten at Nana Vistor's request as originally Kira was glad to be rid of the baby and had no sense of attachment to it. The shot of the changeling attempting to mimic Odo's face was not budgeted as it was come up with on the spot. It was achieved through a stocking covered in goo. First of Keiko's final three appearances. Final appearance of both Mora and Shakaar.


    VOY 315/316: Blood Fever
    -Premise: B'Elanna Torres experiences symptoms similar to the pon farr after being attacked by Ensign Vorik who is also undergoing the blood fever.

    [IMG]


    -T2Q Comments: Pon Farr time for the newbie. These, I dunno, sports uniform variants are new- i'm guessing they replace those black ops ones used in Chain of Command?

    One does have to think, then, if this is every 7 years, then Tuvok will have to go through this before the series is over, even if it last happened shortly before Season 1, it had to be before he infiltrated the Maquis group led by Chakotay, which would mean Season 6 or 7 at the latest....

    The Doctor: Holographic Pimp.

    "Are you telling me that I'm impossible to resist?"

    These invaders.. the Borg, i assume? Amusing twist on the Pon Farr battle. They use the term "chemical imbalnce" way too much in this episode. Seriously, it should be a drinking game.

    Aha, called it. Almost Borg time.

    [IMG]

    Well, that's a hard episode to judge. They handle the subject pretty well- it's just that that subject matter happens to be horny aliens, which falls a bit too cleanly into Trek cliches for my tastes (not to mention fighting doesn't make sense as a resolution to the problem...well, maybe for the half-Klingon...).

    I was about to put it in the Average category, but then they have to go and throw in that Borg teaser at the end. Potentially Essential.

    Trivia: Tackling this theme was much anticipated by the writers, but they were waiting for a way to do so in an unexpected manner. Initially it was going to be Tuvok, not Torres, that goes through the Pon Farr, but was changed to avoid having to address the adultery that would be required to utilize Tuvok. It then evolved to being Tuvok being trapped in the cave with Torres and him helping her through it, but this was changed to Paris the day before shooting.

    Directed by Andrew Robinson (Garak). 2nd of 3 episodes to not feature Harry. First Borg appearance post-First Contact release. They intentionally decided to wait awhile after FC's release before bringing them into the show, to give the film some breathing room and not make their appearance on Voyager seem redundant.

    There's a weird episode order issue to work out with Alter Ego, Fair Trade and Blood Fever, while still making sense of the use of the Expanse in Fair Trade and, later on, Unity. Because the Expanse kinda disappears for an episode there, but they can only go in a certain order for the Vulcan angle.

    Up next: Star Trek VIII: First Contact.



    The Babylon Project Log:

    -Space stations ending with a numerical designation that are of commerce ports in nature (prominently featuring a casino area), near a giant swirling blue vortex passageway (wormhole/jumpgate) used for travel and a location of advanced creation (prophet temple/Great Machine).
    -Hard-edged female second in command, pessimistic, sarcastic security chief. somewhat ethnic doctor.
    -Characters named Dukat/Dukhat
    -A spiritual race recently coming free of occupation by a more militaristic civilization, the conflict of which led the spiritual race to become more militant themselves.
    -Gambler conman (Quark/Londo) has somewhat fluctuating antagonistic friendship with hard-edged chief of security (Odo/Garabaldi).
    -Characters played by Julie Caitlin Brown have a long-standing grudge against a notorious murderer who has prolonged their life at the expense of others through scientific experimentation (Rao Vantika/Jha'dur "Deathwalker").
    -The term "Changeling" has significance in relation to early parts of both series (the B5 pilot "the Gathering" and DS9's "Vortex" & beyond), though applied to different elements (technology versus a species).
    -A main character slowly constructs a device (chrysalis/clock) piece of piece in their quarters while conversing with a subordinate .
    -A main character often referred to as Chief (Miles/Garibaldi) has a recurring assistant (Neela/garibaldi's Aide) who is a plant by another faction that attempts to bring about political change by assassinating a prominent rival leader (Bariel/Santiago) in the first season finale so that one of their faction may replace him (Adami/Clark). Their plot is uncovered by the Chief character.
    -The Circle/Homeguard Bajoran for Bajorans, vandalism with a symbol; subdues and brands an alien on the middle of the forehead with their logo
    -Second Season opens with a command officer (Sinclair/Kira) being reassigned from the station to be among the religious order of a species heavily involved with the operation of the station, partly due to prophecy
    -A near-human alien race has their hair up in a fan-style to represent social status.
    -A character played by Julia Nickson (Catherine/Cassandra) romances (or attempts to romance) the commander of the station (Sinclair/Sisko).
    -Characters have discussion of higher and lower lifeforms awareness of each other to that of ants (Odo & Kira/G'Kar & Catherine Sakai).
    -3rd Season Premiere introduces a new prototype warship for use by the station's crew using technology from other races (Vorlon/Romulan), in response to the appearance of a powerful new enemy race (Shadows/ Dominion)
    -Image of female commanding officer of station used (or attempted to be used) in an erotic hologram program against her knowledge/wishes.
    -Shady Political Organization develops it's own fleet of ships in secret without knowledge of the military (Obsidian Order/Psi Corps)
    -A redheaded female character named Leeta/Lyta becomes a recurring character on the show in 1995, played by somewhat similar looking actresses.
    -During a time travel story in the 3rd season, the Commander of the station becomes/takes on the identity of a key historical figure.
    -An alien brings (or is speculated to have brought) knowledge of the future to the past that is passed on by others as religious prophecy amongst a spiritual people.
    -A main character uncontrollably flashes forward in time and attempts to use those visions to change future events (Miles/Several)
    -The Doctor must, through strength of will, fight his way through a potentially fatal wound inflicted by a one-shot criminal, guided by vision(s) of a familiar face(s) representing a different facet of his mind. (Bashir/Franklin)
    -The opening title sequence involves people in spacesuits doing external repairs to the station to convey a sense of scale
    -Weapon systems of the station are upgraded for a coming battle
    -Weapon systems on the station of similar design emerge from hidden ports
    -The station, after harboring political/military refugees/fugitives, must defend itself in battle (both against ships and boarding parties) against former allies. Re-enforcements to the attacking forces are known to arrive just as allied re-enforcements do so, forcing the resolution to the battle to make the attacking forces standdown.
    -A warrior of alien traditions joins the main cast about midway through the series.
    -A main character is involved in a "lesbian" relationship in an episode that aired in October 1995.
    -The main character (Sheridan/Sisko) serves under a high ranking Earth military officer played by Robert Foxworth (Hague/Leyton), who is attempting a coup against the Earth's government.
    -A guest character undergoes a mindwipe/death of personality. (chronological viewing also results in this episode being back to back with the VOY episode that features Brad Douriff, who plays the guest character on B5)
    -Labor disputes attempted to be resolved "by any means necessary" via enforcers.
    -A main alien character becomes more human through a drastic physical change.
    -The main enemy of the series (Shadows/Dominion) attempt to destabilize opposing forces by inciting war between factions by controlling/manipulating/allying with the rulers of one (or both) sides.
    -The advanced alien race worshipped as holy figures have a cast-off (or opposing) faction/race villified by the same races (Vorlons/Shadows; Minbari, Narns, etc).
    -A character has a vision of being on a planet and looking up to see enemy forces blot out the sun (Londo/Sisko)
    -The station Captain has fragmented visions of events to come. (Sheridan/SIsko)
    Last edited by The2ndQuest, May 19, 2013
  12. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Since I'm limited to 5 video files per post, here's the trailer for The Begotten:

  13. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Looking forward to your review of First Contact!! Probably the best Trek film until the new ones.
    <gets beaten up by Trekkies>
  14. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Blood Fever = the day/ep many a fan became Paris/Torres shippers (and one of the few actual ships in Trek history that where the investment actually paid off AND had the couple make it to the end)





    [face_beatup]:p
  15. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Speaking of the Darkness and Light episode, the Star Trek universe apparently has the technology to surgically alter a person's appearance to resemble someone else, or even to pass off as a member of another species. So couldn't they just have fixed that guy's face?
  16. timmoishere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    Maybe he chose to keep the scars as a reminder of what had happened? IDK. I got a serious Silence of the Lambs vibe in that scene.
  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    It could be he simply didn't have access to such procedures or chose not to have them, as suggested above.
  18. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Or the Cardassian Govt. refused to let him have the scars removed as 'punishment'
  19. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Well my point is, in the Star Trek universe, such an injury is easily fixable and therefore it shouldn't have been that big a deal in the first place. If his government denied him the treatment, then he should have been angry at his government instead. If he decided not to get treatment, isn't it like getting a serious infection then choosing not to use antibiotics and causing yourself a whole lot more grief than is necessary?
    Last edited by Alpha-Red, May 19, 2013
  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10

    [IMG]


    Star Trek VIII: First Contact
    -Premise: Six years have passed since Captain Jean-Luc Picard was captured and assimilated by the Borg. Now, the Borg make a second attempt to conquer the Federation; but Starfleet believes that Picard's experience makes him an unstable element in a critical situation and orders him to stay behind. But, when Starfleet's fight does not go well, Picard and the crew of the new USS Enterprise disobey orders to join the fight, following the Borg three hundred years into the past just as Zefram Cochrane prepares to launch Humanity's first warp-capable engine and make first contact with an alien race.

    [IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Back in the day, it was rumored that this film would have the SW:SE teaser trailer playing before it, then later the rumor was for Jingle All the Way then, eventually, Space Jam (where I finally saw it for the one and only time- and it was AWESOME).

    I also must once again comment on how awesome the teaser trailer for this movie is. Has one of my favorite trailer narrations ever, and how it builds with the music to the true Borg theme from BOBW is just awesome. I played that from the DVD countless times- I particularly recall using it to test out some speakers with.

    But, onto the film proper...

    The main theme to this film is still one of the best, if not the best, to grace a Trek film. It would have been fitting had Enterprise reappropriated it for it's title theme as TNG did the TMP theme. Alas, that is not the case. One detail I never noticed until now is that this opening nightmare/flashback has Picard in his red TNG-style uniform as he wore during BOBW, as opposed to the new lavender uniform.

    The film certainly doesn't make any effort to make the return of the Borg a surprise, it just jumps right into it- and I kinda like that, instead of killing 20 minutes of the movie by building up to a "it's the Borg- dunt dunt dah!" moment we'd know was coming anyways.

    Mention of Deep Space Five- i wonder if any others have ever been mentioned? It seems weird not to say Deep Space NINE, but since the Borg wouldn't be passing by them from the Delta Quadrant, what with DS9 being aimed towards the Gamma Quadrant, I suppose it makes sense.

    [IMG]

    Ah, the Enterprise-E, IMO the sexiest of all the Enterprises (though the streamlined Nemesis refit perfects it's appearance)- really the first Enterprise since the original/A that felt like it was designed for combat, in this case, presumably, to face the Borg, so fitting it's debut here. Kind of a shame we never see any other Sovereign classes elsewhere though- they certainly weren't shy about using other Galaxy classes on TNG.

    Picard has dreaded an invasion by the Borg "for nearly six years"- that would line-up with the TNG BOBW but ignores the Descent encounter. I'd have to rewatch Descent to be sure, but Starfleet's concern over Picard/ a previously assimilated person being involved with contact with the Borg again would seem odd given his previous exposure to them in I, Borg and Descent.

    Bozeman mentioned. Great little audio touch: when the Borg ultimatum comes across the Starfleet channel, the multi-voice they use comes from all the surround speakers. Lexington mentioned.

    Data still having a bit of one-liner fun from the emotion chip i presume. This peice of music as the E goes to warp is probably one of, if not the, favorite cues- the Trek main theme has never had such a rousing "we're off to save the day and kick some ass" rendition, leading right into the booming Borg music (albeit not the choir of doom from BOBW).

    [IMG]

    Speaking of ships designed to fight the Borg, the Defiant makes it's big screen debut- they were at least trying to work with DS9 here, ha. A little bit of ol' Klingon theme music for Worf's appearance. The Defiant being saved by the Enterprise also has a great sense of scale to the Big E.


    [IMG]

    Gorgeous shot of the Federation ships swarming around the Cube like gnats. Feel bad for that ship that gets destroyed while Picard makes his dramatic pause to order "fire"- if you were aboard that ship, you'd be like "You couldn't have given the bloody order 5 seconds earlier, you grandstanding...". The Akira class- so awesome they had to retro-rip it off for the NX-01. Also feel bad for the ship that gets caught in the Cube explosion.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    And there we have it- the largest scale Star Trek battle ever seen on the big screen. A shame they didn't have just a little bit more budget that they obviously would have wanted. Only real downside is the Cube gets taken out a bit too easily- though one could argue the quantum torpedoes, Picard's knowledge of a weak point (which he hadn't mentioned in his reports- you'd think "weak spot" would be at the top of the list) and the fact that the Borg may have intended the Cube to be sacrificed as a diversion would explain it, it just feels too easy still.

    Borg Sphere debuts- makes sense that they'd keep with geometric shapes.

    "Tough little ship."
    "Little?"

    Sphere destroyed, threat averted, time to go ho... oh, ok, there's more. Zephrane Cochrane makes his first appearance since TOS- albeit it it seems under different circumstances. Mid 21st century clothing... uh oh, watch out folks, our grandkids will be sporting old timey, high waist western trousers (of course, WW3 s on the horizon still).

    Almost forgot to comment on Geordi's cyber-eyes debut here. Good to see they took steps to avoid someone from exploiting the visor technology again, given that it resulted in the destruction of the Federation flagship, it just makes sense that it would be addressed if he were to remain serving as the flagship's chief engineer.

    Kind of a cliched horror moment with the stupid female engineer investigating on her own before the horror scream.

    [IMG]

    EMH used- nice nod to Voyager by using it's most popular character while also explaining why they never used an EMH on TNG- also the Doctor is wearing the new uniform here, likely the only time he'll do so.

    "I'm a doctor, not a doorstop."

    Deanna's drunk accent sounds more like Mama Troi. Data has developed the ability to deactivate the emotion chip.. seems kinda against the point of making him unable to remove it by fusing it in place during Generations.

    We get the upgraded/revised space zombie look to the Borg debuting here, alomgside their one-touch assimilation trick... Klingons got a makeover to the big screen... 13 years later the Romulans will as well. The mercy kill shot of the crew member by Picard is a bit on the dark side for the character, isn't it?

    The Borg Queen's debut speech is quite forboding- "Brave worlds, I've heard them before. From countless species across countless worlds...".

    The star trek line is a bit of a groaner, but you have to figure it was bound to happen at some point. The Borg laser pointer shot is just damn cool, even if it's just the capper to a montage.

    "it's my first ray gun", actually a rather effective moment.

    The disembodied Queen shot- rather memorable, though the last part is a bit jumpy, I'll forgive them, this was pretty cutting edge at the time.

    [IMG]

    "interesting, if cryotic, response" ie: we dont want to really explain how the Queen makes sense for the Borg.

    "Borg? Sounds swedish"

    "Money doesn't exist in the 24th century" bullcrap! latinum, buying drinks, etc.

    Callback to The Big Goodbye holoprogram. They probably should have established the holodeck a bit before this scene, as it's function here does rely on previous knowledge of the series. Neelix's actor cameos. Picard's trick here is effective (shame he couldn't lure more Borg in), though i makes one wonder why he went through the trouble of loading the whole holochapter and stealing the tommy gun when he could have just have had the computer give him the gun to start.

    Barclay!! I completely forgot he was even in this one...

    "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated".

    Nice reminder that the Borg are still in the Delta Quadrant. I like the helmet designs here... seems they at least attempt to provide some periphrial vision capabilities (as long as you dont turn your head much). The magnet boots are kind of a throwback to ST6, no?

    So, yeah, speaking of a sense of scale- holy crap, gotta love that shot of them walking along the underside of the saucer. The shot of Worf reorienting himself by focusing on the hull is quite clever- an excuse to reorient the camera.

    8 years since Data scored...Tasha? Or the one girl on the planet maybe?

    "You told him about the statue?"

    Shame about Hawk- would have been nice for them to expand the crew roster at least for another film. Picard's zero-G manuever is pretty clever- though I've always wondered why the erupting gas he flies through doesn't alter his trajectory any if it was strong enough to send a Borg flying earlier (albeit with the help of a phaser blast impact).

    You'd think the Borg that took down Hawk would have stuck around to protect that lock, even if Borg-Hawk still does.

    "Assimilate this."

    Gotta wonder if at least some of that signal got out.

    Picard smashes the C model but sends the D model spinning a bit. The whole "line must be drawn here" speech is quite obviously a franchise highlight.

    The self destruct option starts to be a bit of a cliche here, especially given how new the ship is (which is commented on), which kinda works against it because you figure the E will survive the movie as they wouldn't self destruct two Enterprises in the movies series, nor would they destroy two back to back.

    A shame they couldn't have had Crusher be the one to convince Picard to change his mind.

    "Think they'll build another?"
    "Plenty of letters left in the alphabet."

    You'd think there'd be a lot more blowback to the surrounding structures from that launch. The deployment of warp nacelles is a nice touch, not to mention making them partially TOS-inspired in design (with a dash of TNG blue glow); i wonder if this one Borg dude played the guy in The Last Starfighter?

    Data's turn here as "bad" is far more believable than in Descent- doesn't hurt that they've seemingly (and intentionally) reverse-Borged Data, with the skin eye patch meant to be a mirror to the Borg eyepiece. One flaw here in Data's plan- what if, after saying "He will make an excellent drone", they injected Picard immediately?

    "Watch your future's end" already have, actually. Both parts.

    And now, the reverse-Borg Data ends up looking like a Borg with the skin removed.

    "She was unique" until we needed better ratings for Voyager and recast her.

    [IMG]

    Oddly enough the one old dude who stumbles around out here (and whom we glanced briefly earlier in the film) looks like a human Sarek.

    [IMG]

    So they're able to match the chronometric whatevers to recreate the time vortex... doesn't this provide Starfleet with an incredible leap in understanding and control over time travel? This should be the first step towards the timeships of the 26th century and beyond...that kinda stuff almost seems like it could now plausibly happen sooner than one might think.

    "Make it so.", great last line to close the Enterprise part of the story off with.

    So, yeah, this one is pretty great. Not only does it feel like a great conclusion to the Borg arc of TNG (and, with the Queen, a launching point for the Voyager Borg arc) but it has a great mix of action and humor while providing a few great character moments that are quite memorable. Outside of a too-short battle on the front half, Borg hierarchal issues that can be debated and perhaps a desire to see Crusher get some more screentime, this one exceeds on all levels and- unlike the massive failure of Insurrection 3 years later, supports both DS9 and VOY a few times (without taking the focus off of the TNG crew)- I mean, let's face it, if VOY started off trying to be the continuation of TNG, after this movie, VOY instead decided it wanted to be First Contact instead.

    Resistance to this film's Definite Essentialness is Futile.

    Trivia: When approached about a follow-up to Generations, Berman's first idea was to involve time travel while Moore and Braga wanted to do a Borg-focused story. After a meeting they suddenly thought they could do both. They began by figuring out what time periods hadn't been done yet while also eliminating ones that would be too hokey (like the Roman Empire- although that was sorta done in TOS). Possibilities included the American Civil War before they began to focus on the Italian Renaissance period and a draft titled "Star Trek Renaissance" was made. It involved the crew tracking down time traveling Borg before coming across a village and hearing tales of creatures taking over nearby vllages- monsters the crew would realize to be the Borg

    "We begin to realize that these horrific monsters... were the Borg. We track them down to a castle near the village where a nobleman runs a feudal society. We suspect the Borg are working in there, but no one can get in. So Data becomes our spy, impersonating an artist's apprentice... Data became friends with Leonardo da Vinci, who at the time, was working for the nobleman as a military engineer... you would have sword fights and phaser fights mixed together, in fifteenth-century Europe... it risked becoming really campy and over-the-top."

    The producers then realized the time period would be too expensive to realize on screen, in addition to audience knowldge and identification of the period being very low. They then moved onto an after-modern history setting, with the image of first meeting a Vulcan being a key motivating visual concept- the birth of the Federation.

    The storyline was then revised into "Star Trek Resurrection". Resurrection was very similar to the final film: the Borg attack Cochrane's labratory in Montana, severely injuring him. While Crusher fights to save his life, Picard takes over his role in history (hmm, Past Tense anyone?) and rallies a town to rebuild the damaged warp ship. Picard would become romantically involved with a local photographer and technician who would help Picard rebuild a key part of the ship. Aboard the Enterprise, Riker would be engaged in combat against the Borg drones.

    The Borg in Resurection remained Queenless, as they were in TNG. A Paramount executive expressed the Borg being faceless zombies as a weakness, so the writers cam up with the Brg Queen as a figurehead. Stewart was also unsatisfied with the early script and suggested they switch the Picard and Riker stories.

    After the script was revised, dropping the injured Cochrane and romance suplots and integrating a holodeck sequence, the Resurrection script was what was used to budget the film. Frakes won the directing chair but was offered the job a month later than would have been ideal, after it had been offered to A-list directors who had little interest in the franchise.

    Model makers originally changed the Enterprise-D to be an Enterprise-E after Generations was finished, figuring they'd themselves the time for the next film.

    [IMG]

    The new Enterprise, during it's design, originally had swept-forward nacelles, to echo the D's, and, later, moveable pylons like Voyager- but this design made it look like a chicken in a pan, somethjing that not even the designer could unsee once it was suggested, so the idea was scrapped and replaced with swept-back nacelles pylons.

    Non-canon sources would establish that Scotty was involved in designing the Sovereign-class sometime after his arrival to the present day in TNG: Relics.

    The overall look of the ship was inspired partially by the Excelsior, while rotating the oval of the D's saucer to make the ship more sleek. Most of the Enterprise interiors were designed to have removeable panels that could be swapped out for Borgified versions overnight. Other parts of the ship's interior reused turbolift walls from TMP, the Enterprise-D's observation lounge and several Voyager sets (a repainted sickbay acts as Crusher's while Voyager's cargo bay became the Enterprise's weapons locker).

    Electronics in the Borg suits often included blinking lights that spelled out production members names in morse code. Alien drones of Cardassians and Romulans were made but never appeared in the final film (though Klingon ones did).

    Script pages originally had the Borg ship be a "tetragob" (rectangular-shaped) vessel, but this was eventually reverted to the cube. Small details of the Borg cube were achieed using recycled paperclips. The Pheonix originally was to be a shuttle-like lander, but would have proven oo expensive. Instead the US military allowed them to film inside an actual missle silo, using a real, but hollowed out, Titan II missle.

    [IMG]

    Tom Hanks was originally slated to play Cochrane but ended up being too busy with his directorial debut. Final appearance of Nurse Ogawa. Admiral Hayes apparently didn't die here and will appear in Voyager episodes down the road.

    The first actor to ever be pronounced "he's dead Jim" by McCoy back in TOS: The Man Trap cameos as Cochrane's bartender. Braga has a cameo on the holodeck as the Borg enter. Moore's cameo was never shot, despite waiting 16 hours with his wife for it as an anniversary gift. There are unsubstantiated rumors that Nichelle Nichols and Kelsey grammer have uncredited voice cameos.

    A month after production began, Resurrection was retitlled due to Fox's announcement of Alien 4 being titled Alien Resurrection. Suggsted replacements included Destinies, Future Generations and Regenerations. Borg and Generations II were chosen as working titles until First Contact was chosen.

    The village has minor details including the 52 star American flag mentioned in TNG: The Royale. The dish set was shot at angles to exagerate it's size. The manual input computers were labeled "AE35" as a nod to 2001: A Space Odyssey. The dish shoot was complicated by the smoke falling back to the set (forcing Frakes to shoot around it) and Stewart having breathing troubles inside his suit.

    The Millenium Falcon cameos during the Borg space battle. 16 new ships were designed for the space battle, with 4 becoming digital models to complement the existing physical ones: the Akira-class, the Saber-class, the Steamrunner-class and the Norway-class. The latter was lost during a computer glitch and would never appear in Star Trek again (it's a sort of Voyager-looking version of the Akira). Also in the fray were Nebula-class, Miranda-class and the final appearance of an Oberth-class science ship.

    [IMG]

    LaForge's eye implants were achieved by matting sprocket-shaped shower handles against black contact lenses.

    Much of the music by Jerry Goldsmith in FC does not appear on the soundtrack due to much of the work being shared with Joel Goldsmith. The "A Busy Man" theme was used as a Picard theme here, briefly in Insurrection and often in Nemesis. Its originally from ST5.

    Several FX shots were shot just for the trailers, including one of Voyager attacking a Borg cube. Several insert shots of Borg drones can also be seen. Beyond these items, no evidence of any deleted scenes exists.

    [IMG]

    2 years after FC, Stewart played Captain Ahab in a TV miniseries. Cochrane at one point points out the constellation Leo, which is where Wolf 359 is located. This is the only movie where the TV series combadge is seen, in the BOBW-styled flashback.

    The film opened the same day that Mark Lenard (Sarek), died. Riker calls the Defiant a "tough little ship"- the same words used by Thomas Riker. The Vulcan who greets Cochrane is the grandfather of Sarek/the great-grandfather of Spock, named Solkar.

    The recent, non-canon, TNG/Doctor Who crossover comic series, Assimilation^2 (set during Season 5 of TNG), suggests that it is their encounter with The Doctor that propels the Borg to investigate and develop the time travel technology they utilize here.


    Up next: DS9 513: For the Uniform & VOY 316/315: Coda

    Time Travel Log:

    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 3.5 Billion Years Ago; Jean Luc-Picard & Q; from alternate-2370)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (2700 BC, Sarpedion Ice Age; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (Undefined 17th Century-esque Sarpeidon; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TNG: Time's Arrow, part I (1893; NCC-1701-D crew; from 2368)
    -TOS: The City on the Edge of Forever (1930: NCC-1701 crew; from 2267)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (1930; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Little Green Men (1947; Quark's Treasure crew; from 2372)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (1967; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (1967; Aeon; from 2373)
    -TOS: Assignment Earth (1968: NCC-1701; from 2268)
    -TOS: Tommorow is Yesterday (1969: NCC-1701; from 2267)
    -ST4: The Voyage Home (1986: The Bounty crew, formerly of NCC-1701; from 2286)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (1996; NCC-74656; from 2372)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part II (1996; Aeon; from 29th Century)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part I (2024; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (2024; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (2048; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -ST8: First Contact (2063; NCC-1701-E & Borg Sphere; from 2373)
    -TOS: The Tholian Web (2154 (Mirror Universe): NCC-1764 Defiant; from 2268)
    -TOS: The Naked Time (2266: NCC-1701 goes back in time 3 days; from 2266)
    -DS9: Trials and Tribble-ations (2268: NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2373)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 2364; Jean Luc-Picard; from alternate-2370)
    -TNG: Time Squared (2365: Picard goes 6 hours into the past; from 2365)
    -TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise (2366 (Standard & FKW Universes); NCC-1701-C goes forward through a temporal rift; from 2344)
    -TNG: Captain's Holiday (2366; Vorgons; from 27th Century, approx. 2666)
    -TNG: Future Imperfect (False-2383; Will Riker. NCC-1701-D; from 2367)
    -TNG: A Matter of Time (2368; Berlinghoff Rasmussen; from 22nd Century, using 26th Century technology)
    -TNG: Cause and Effect (2368; NCC-1701-D ends up 17 days in the future after timeloop; from 2368)
    -TNG: Time's Arrow, part II (2368; Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens; from 1893)
    -TNG: Firstborn (2370; Alexander; from 2410)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (2370; Jean Luc-Picard from alternate-2370)
    -VOY: Time and Again (2371; NCC-74656 crew go back in time 1 day; from alternate-2371)
    -DS9: Visionary (2371; Miles flashes forward in time between 3.5 & 5 hours six times; from 2371)
    -VOY: Eye of the Needle ( 2371; data and Romulan; from 2351)
    -ST7: Generations (2371; Picard and Kirk through the Nexus from 2371 & 2293)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (2373; Aeon; from Alternate 29th Century)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 2395; Jean Luc-Picard & Q; from alternate-2370)
    Last edited by The2ndQuest, May 21, 2013
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  21. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Aw yeah. Such a great entertaining movie. I had no idea the original idea was to have it set during the Renaissance. Assassin's Creed II before Assassin's Creed II (kinda).
  22. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Definitely. This has to be one of my all time favorites, not only for the mentioned Tomalak/Picard interaction, but also for Admiral Jarok. His speech to Picard in the ready room about doing it for his daughter and the sadness in his voice when he says "I will never see my child smile again" gets me every time.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Oh, definitely. The Defector was a tremendous surprise when watching TNG- not only because I had never seen it (as far as I could recall) but also for it still being relatively early in the series (even if that's technically the half way point).

    If I'm skimming channels and see TNG is on, I often find myself thinking "Oh- I hope it's The Defector!".
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  24. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Two updates in a week. :eek:

    Love First Contact, it's also the first Star Trek movie I've seen in the cinema (I kind of wish it was also the last, you can't have them all I suppose).
  25. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Yeah, one of my few quibbles with FC is the seemingly tossing out of the I, Borg, and Descent canon. Especially as Voyager seems to rehash that same territory with Seven of Nine later in it's run.

    Overall, though I enjoyed it. Especially the look at how The Best of Both Worlds affected Picard psychologically. It's one of the few films that did plot, action, and characterization almost to a perfect T.

    My High School teacher at the time also took a bunch of us on a field trip to see it, so that was a nice little bonus ontop of seeing an awesome movie.:D
    Last edited by Juliet316, May 21, 2013