Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before-DS9: S&D, BtL, Favor the Bold & Sacrifice of Angels

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest, Jun 25, 2006.

  1. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    Never seen this one. Does sound good, though.
  2. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    It is fantastic, IMO- try to track it down, if you can. It's only a couple action sequencs shy of being worthy of a threatrical film, really. Both Cox and Warner's characters were worthy of having a follow-up story (not necessarily at once, but you get my meaning), though, sadly, neither did.

    JediMarine made a good observation in the SFAF thread about when Warner's character brings up a bluff about Crusher, and how Picard's choice to stay because of it really hits his inner self soemthing terrible.
  3. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I'm surprised you haven't seen it, the torture scenes and Picard shouting "there are four lights" makes it a classic. :p

    I see the Emissary is next, so you'll be both doing both TNG and DS9 and I'm guessing DS9 and VOY (can't you just skip Voyager, you won't be missing much :p )
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Yeah, I'll be alternating between the shows, as per the timeline on Memory-Alpha.

    Watching DS9 in it's entirety, and seeing the comparisons/theft/sharing of concepts with B5, was the inciting concept that made me start this project, which I then widened to locating the essential episodes of the franchise.

    So, I slogged through TOS and found the few gems in there and I'll slog through VOY and ENT for the same reasons.

    Plus it helps emulate the original viewing experience, which offers the rare treat of a non-law/crime/sitcom franchise maintaining two successful shows at the same time- something only Stargate and Buffy have done in recent memory, AFAIK.
  5. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    If that's the case you're doing a lousy job so far. Where's the several month break after every season ending? Or the one episode per week approach (with some reruns every four weeks, or so). I suggest you start over and do it correctly this time. :p
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I space out the breaks throughout the seasons, instead of slopping it all together at once ;)
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/ee/Borg_cube_destroys_the_Melbourne.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/66/Galaxy_class_docked_at_DS9.jpg] [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/a/ab/Towedcardassianship.jpg]
    DS9 101/102: Emissary
    -Premise: On the edge of explored space, a new crew takes command of an abandoned space station and makes an incredible discovery that will change the galaxy.

    -T2Q Comments: As a preface, I remember seeing brief previews of DS9 back in the day, before they revealed it was set on a space station, and how it gave the impression that the visuals we did see of the station were actually that of a ship's saucer section, and I came to the conclusion that it was set in a time period when the Federation was really beaten up by the Borg, so even the ships looked dirty, stripped down and industrial- ironically somewhat like people would later expect to happen with Voyager, though that never really came to pass. Still, I was very surprised at how wrong I was about the show's concept at the time.

    Really smart idea of anchoring the introduction of the main character into Wolf 359, part of what was likely the most watched part of TNG at the point of development- I'm surprised they never used this concept for other main characters. Also, the only time we ever see an Ambassador-class in action, alas.

    Explosion outside the window while he searches the rubble is the only effect to not quite work so well. The shaky handheld style here, combined with the fact that everyone is dirty and burned really adds a new sense of reality to things that we haven't really seen in the franchise so far- also indicative of filmmaking trends of shows to come like Galactica. And the dirt, well, the Federation is always shown to be so clean- even when they're on messy away missions, they usually just get some sand or dust on them. Here? It's burns and carbon and soot, grease and blood. Explosion of ship outside escape pod window is great, however.

    When I first watched DS9, I remember finding the theme a little boring compared to the more triumphant marching of TNG's theme, but over time, I think it's become my favorite of the Trek themes, rivaled by the theme to First Contact. This introduction for this episode alsso wisely ommits the wormhole ending effect so as not to spoil it before it's introduced in the acual show. The actual visuals of showing off the station are appropriately slow and graceful to mirror the theme itself- though I much prefer the later season intros where the station is shown to be more active with ships coming and going and repair crews working on the exterior of the station ala Baylon 5's first and second season intros, though it's not so bad right now considering the state DS9 is in at this point and not yet fully active.

    Very good idea to have the Enterprise there, not only as a passing of the torch from one show to the next, but also for simply a sense of scale to the station; always handy to have a T-1000 as your security offer; I love how the Wolf connection throws Picard off.

    "AND a thief" [face_laugh]

    Interesting multi=plane effect on the matte painting. I like Sisko's reaction to the holo-fountain stairs cause, yeah, that is kinda cool. Avery makes that Beach scene work surprisingly much better than it probably should have. Sisko's comment to Jake is kinda funny because it's sorta saying "i was just thinking how much you look like a girl".

    Logical choice to have O'Brien here, given his past with the Cardassians. Miles farewell to Picard and the Enterprise done just right, ending with a great little transition from the opening of the TNG theme into the DS9 fanfare. Kind of a rough transition into the arrival of the Cardassian vessel, though.

    Dig the look of the of Grande/Runabouts- sorta of like a shuttlecraft but cool looking. "Are you capable of communicating with me?" um, isn't that what they just did?.

    Odo brings a welcome breath of sarcasm as a character. The extended 4th dimension
  8. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    I always liked Deep Space 9, but it had one problem: Avery Brooks. I just didn't like him in the role. He's a natural heavy.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    While I have limited to go on- my memories and what I've rewatched so far, I'd disagree- he has the pull to command a scene, be a close match to Stewart in the scenes they share, yet, as I noted above, the scenes where he's more optimistic and kinder really only work because of him, and I'd be hard pressed to name someone else in the franchise that could do that and still have the aforementioned gravitas.

    Plus, his voice didn't grate the nerves like Janeway, which is also a plus ;)
  10. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/e/e7/Duras_sisters_b-o-p_and_Yangtzee_Kiang%2C_Past_Prologue.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/51/Danar.jpg] [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/7/70/Tahna_and_the_twins.jpg]
    DS9 103: Past Prologue
    -Premise: A Bajoran terrorist tests Kira's loyalties to the Federation when he attempts to rid Bajor of the Federation for good.

    -T2Q Comments: Garek is rather unsettling, and Bashir's jumpiness is understandable but kinda annoying. First appearance of the wormhole in opening credits.

    Nightwatch Guy as Cardassian. Kinda funny how the Bajoran clothes and uniforms evoke the TOS uniforms to a degree.

    Klingon sisters return- I find it almost off balance to find them here, halfway through an episode that's not Klingon-centric, with little fanfare at that. "I'm the one giving you the choice." Odo doesn't really maintain any mass ratios in his shape shifting, does he?

    The jazz hands on "haggle" cracks me up- I love this Garek fellow- I hope he's recurring. I like the detail that they explain Odo's appearance by him having trouble replicating humanoid noses. This whole scene with Odo and Kira is great too.

    Dead quiet...except for all the computer noise left in the audio track.

    For the introduction of Garek (he's recurring! hurrah!) and the minor progression of the Duras sisters and Klingon plotline, I'll say this one is Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: This is the first episode ever of Star Trek to not have a ship named Enterprise in it.



    [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/c/c8/Bashir-ibudan-ama-dsn.jpg]
    DS9 104: A Man Alone
    -Premise: After a man is murdered behind locked doors, investigation reveals that the only person who could have committed the crime is Odo, station Chief of Security.

    -T2Q Comments: Bashir slightly annoys me for the second episode intro in a row. I wonder how many episodes it'll take for me to start fast forwarding through the opening titles, as I do love this theme, very serene.

    Keiko's first appearance on the show- nice that they're exploring the difficulties in assignment transition.

    This one scene about halfway through pretty much telegraphs the real killer, I think- but also does an excellent job of characterizing Quark in regards to Odo...and maybe I spoke too soon, it may have given us more options as to who the killer is than I originally surmissed.

    "Killing your own clone is still murder." Not sure if that's corny or badass, but I like it.

    This seems somewhat relevant viewing in terms of seeing aspects of the station still being established (which makes sense, given that this was the first regular episode shot, even if second aired) and introducing some character relationships (Jake and the Ferengi kid..which after I tpe that sounds like a western TV show), as well as some other minor themes that would be explored down the road.

    I actually remember facets of this episode too, and still wouldn't mind rewatching it down the road. But, it could still be skipped with little lost so I'm hesitant to say it's Definitely Essential, so I'll go and say "Potentially Essential, But Not Necessarily Good", even if the latter part of that description doesn't apply in this case.

    Trivia: when Odo is reviewing the murder victim's schedule, one of the entries states he departed from Alderaan Spaceport.


    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/fc/Babel_virus.jpg]
    DS9 105: Babel
    -Premise: A virus infects the station's residents, making everyone unable to speak coherently.

    -T2Q Comments: I like the idea of all the repairs needed to get things running piling up on Miles. You know, the design flourishes above and under catwalks on this station, at least the underside ones, that mimic the docking pylons of the station design, would seem to be a major hazard for people bumping their heads into them.

    "Rom's an idiot- he couldn't fix a straw if it was bent."

    Not sure why they're making
  11. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    The early episodes of this show are quite intriguing, but I find I don't remember seeing them, and I'm sure I did.
  12. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    They're in a bit of a TNG-mode at the moment, being stand-aloneish initially, so I could see how it might blur together in the memory.

    For me, it's been specific moments or visuals or concepts that jar my recollection- the Bajoran terrorist trying to collapse the wormhole so non-Bajorans wouldn't have reason to come there anymore, Quark and Odo's exchange about the transporter, etc.
  13. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    A Man Alone is one of my favourite Trek episodes. A nice analogy for racial prejudice and some great early character development. Easily my favourite of the first series (although Duet is pretty damned good as well :p )
  14. Django211 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 1999
    star 4
    I didn't get into DS9 until later in its run. I bought the entire series & tried watching it from the beginning but I didn't enjoy the early seasons. Sure there were episodes here & there, but I think the series took off after the Dominion war. I look forward to talking about those episodes, however that will be a while.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9e/Professor_James_Moriarty.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/2/2e/An_attempt_to_transport_a_holomatter_chair.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/95/Detrian_star.jpg]
    TNG 612: Ship in a Bottle
    -Premise: Professor Moriarty returns, only this time he gains control of the Enterprise in his quest to leave the holodeck.

    -T2Q Comments: Holmes and Barclay in one episode? Goodness can only ensue.

    "Policemen- I'd recognize them in any century."

    Countess is played by the first doctor on seaQuest DSV. "Computer- end program!" love Barclay's paranoia- and the production crew was right (when debating whether to include Barclay in the episode- only he could have made that line work perfectly).

    Not much to comment on- I've been looking forward to this episode for awhile- I remember it quite fondly. To this day when i think of Daniel Davis I think of Moriarty first, the Nanny butler second ;)

    Even though the delay in bringing back Moriarty had to do with real-life copyright issues, it almost makes it feel like the show has hit it's "SG-1 point" where it's lengthy run as a series permits it the luxary of further exploring and development past, lingering plot threads.

    After a fashion it's slightly disappointing that Moriarty was turned slightly villainous here after the reasoned conclusion to his actions in Elementary, Dear Data, but this was still a great episode, one of my all time favorites.

    Though I gotta wonder- at the end they say the device Moriarty is plugged into has enough resources to provide a "lifetime" of experiences...so, does that mean they intend for them to die within the program or for the device to delete them (essentially setting a date for their execution), or allow the ruse to be revealed? Anyways, Definitely Essential.




    [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/b/b6/Aquiel_Uhnari.jpg]
    TNG 613: Aquiel
    -Premise: La Forge falls in love with a woman accused of murder.

    -T2Q Comments: Hasn't been a Klingon raid against the Federation in 7 years? So what was happening 1 year before the series started?

    I think this chick is half human, half Devaronian. ;)

    Picard namedropping some grease into the works- and the sound that grease makes when it hits? Ka-plah! :D

    Up until the Klingon arrival this was shaping up to be a decent mystery episode, but now it's taken a turn into something different. I wonder if Geordi will ever meet a girl whom he hasn't already gotten to know well before hand through records? Geordi picks a weird time to get close to her after she acts so suspiciously.

    It's like 24th century silly putty. "It is possible he was the one who was...absorbed" I can't help myself- "You will be absorbed!".

    I think they made it a bit obvious having the dog in the room when they're talking about suspects. The screen Geordi is using to display the duty roster is hella-inconvienent for a sitting position- talk about neck pains.

    Not terrible, but not necessarily good either- I'll say Average. I'd actually be curious to see what this episode could have become if it had stuck to the murder mystery and not brought the chick in as being alive.

    Trivia: This was another attempt at giving Geordi a recurring romanctic interest (after Gomez in Best of Both Worlds) Apparently this was considered to be the weakest of the sixth season, and that Moore named writing this episode as something he would have done differently during his time on Star Trek. The organism also didn't get the intended look, due to be subcontracted out and not deliivered in time for the needed touch-ups and textures, and that "Mr Peanut" was probably "the kindest" name given to the creature.


    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/1/1e/Tosk.jpg] [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/0/01/Quark_Obrien_Tosk.jpg] [image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/0/0c/Hunters_uniform.jpg]
    DS9
  16. Sven_Starcrown Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2009
    star 4
    Tosk was wery likeable despite being a quiet felow.
  17. Zaz Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 1998
    star 9
    I like Quark, too.
  18. Sven_Starcrown Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 10, 2009
    star 4
    Every season had 2 Ferengi-centered episode.
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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  20. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

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    star 6
    Old Kirk has something in common with the new Spock. :p Still what a revelation.
  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/44/Rakal.jpg]
    TNG 614: Face of the Enemy
    -Premise: Troi is captured and forced to masquerade as a Romulan intelligence officer in a plot to aid the defection of several high-ranking Romulan officials.

    -T2Q Comments: Unfortunately, the "big shock" of Deanna as a Romulan is quite obvious from the moment we catch a glimpse of the uniform, even in darkness.

    Ah, this Romulan is played by the same actress who notifies Sheridan of the scorched-Earth situation on B5. Why does a counselor know starfleet codes for border mines and sensors?

    The Romulan commander's words of "I think it will be your kind that will be the death of us all" is actually quite prophetic given the events of Countdown/Star Trek 11.

    Much to the episode's credit- even after Deanna is beamed back on board, I still felt like she was in plausible danger, as if the Romulans had anticipated the action and had a contingency, though, obviously, we see now they didn't.

    Excellent episode, one that continues aspects of the Spock/Romulan/Unification plotline (though this is apparently the last episode/movie to do so, outside of the allusions in ST11). Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Originally, Crusher was going to be the one kidnapped, but this was changed after they realized Deanna's abilities would be more suited to espionage. This was the second attempt at a Hunt for Red October-style story, after a previous pitch was rejected by Berman. The Romulan Commander's casting was initially suggedted to be the same actress and character from TOS: The Enterprise Incident, but she wasn't available. At one point, they even played with the idea of killing Spock offscreen in this episode before coming to their senses. The Tal Shiar are named as an homage to the Vulcan martial arts technique from TOS: Journey to Babel, tal-shaya. Debut of Worf's ponytail.




    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/b/b2/Q_and_Vash_DS9.jpg] [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/9/9c/Embryonic_lifeform_crystal.jpg] [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/fc/Embryonic_lifeform.jpg]
    DS9 107: Q-Less
    -Premise: Archaeologist Vash arrives from the Gamma Quadrant as Q plagues the station and an unknown force threatens to destroy it.

    -T2Q Comments: Bashir hitting on this unibrow chick, yeesh...

    I'm wondering if Miles ever actually saw Vash in the last episode she appeared in?

    Q mentioning the Delta quadrant left to explore- wonder if Voyager was in the works at this point?.

    "What did they call you? The God of Lies?", "...they meant it affectionately."

    "22 percent and don't stop!"

    As much as I'm enjoying it, I think this is the point where they really start to play Q for comedic relief a bit too much.

    ...Ok, so I'm at the "fisticuffs" scene, and I retract the "I think" portion of my previous statement. Still [face_laugh]

    "Picard and his lackies would have solved this technobabble hours ago!"

    If the episode hadn't made the source of the drains and gravitons so obvious as early as it did, it might have been much-improved, but, still- it's quite enjoyable and the conclusion of the Vash episodes, as well as Q's only appearance on DS9 (even if his pupose here is a bit out of character compared to his other appearaces). Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: the third Ren & Stimpy reference here with Hoek IV.


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    TNG 615: Tapestry
    -Premise: After being attacked on an away mission, Picard dies and meets Q in the afterlife. Q offers Picard the chance to change a crucial moment in his history, prevent mistakes he made in life, but Picard learns that those mistakes are what made him who he is.

    -T2Q Comments: So, I'm guessing Q's disappointment or surprise in Sisko's reaction to him, which made him think of/recall Picard, inspired him to g
  22. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    The two TNG episodes are excellent, the two DS9 episodes are average, I did it funny that Q called O'Brien 'one of the little people' or something like that. :p
    Crossover!
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    [image=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/6/66/Galaxy_class_docked_at_DS9.jpg] [image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/f/f5/BashirData.jpg]
    TNG 616: Birthright, Part I
    -Premise: At Deep Space 9, Worf investigates reports that his father is still alive; an engineering accident causes Data to experience a vision of Dr. Soong.

    -T2Q Comments: Crossover! Interesting that they would do one so soon into the new show's run after essentially having part of one in Emissary. Worf's first appearance on DS9 also. The guy's name is Shrek- and he's voiced by Cochrane Bauer!, ha!

    Interesting that this sees a contnuation of both the Worf/father plotline and Soong- I'm also liking Bahsir's interactions with Data. Morn and Zhaan?

    Interesting end, though not particularly edge of your seat cliffhanger.



    [image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/3/38/Carraya_IV_surface.jpg]
    TNG 617: Birthright, Part II
    -Premise: In the Romulan prison camp, Worf teaches the Klingon children about their culture.

    -T2Q Comments: The halfbreed chick reminds me of Hilary Swank almost. The one guy ponders about Romulans and Klingons working together being unheard of- but didn't they basically do that in that TOS epiosde (albeit as an excuse to reuse model effects hots)? Worf falling in love with this chick seems a bit quick.

    Solid episode, though really Klingon heavy and oddly lacking followup to part 1's plotline with Data. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Shrek's role was reduced in part 2 due to James Cromwell breaking his leg between episode shoots- resulting in the deletion of the character confessing he was once an inmate, as well as his death at the hands of a grown son of one of the Klingons there, determined not hear the truth of his father.



    Up next: DS9 109: The Passenger, DS9 110: Move Along Home & DS9 111: The Nagus.
  24. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    It's an okay two parter, nothing great and the crossover didn't contribute any thing useful to the story. :p

    It was a bit odd that the Data subplot was finished by the end of the first part.
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Yeah, this wasn't the most notable of two-parters but it's strange nature of being a 1.5 parter with another episode pitch added in to fill out the run time kinda explains it- it wasn't a story idea concieved of as a two-parter initially.