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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before- VOY: Drive, Repression & Imperfection

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Jun 25, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Gonna make a special single update today because of the episode in question:

    206- The Doomsday Machine:
    -Premise: The Enterprise discovers the wreck of another starship left in the wake of a massive planet killer weapon.
    -T2Q Comments: Ok, wow. I never saw this one before (though I had heard of it). This surprised the heck out of me- with exception to Decker's acting (which ranges from pretty good to over-the-top-funny-faces-awfulness), there's really nothing that flawed about this episode. It's easily the only TOS episode I've watched so far that is practically on the same level of quality and watchability as the modern Trek shows and films.
    It's something almost anyone could watch without requiring either a dose of nostalgia or "taking the time it was made" considerations and excuses into account (well, outside the FX, perhaps, but thats a minor detail)- something I really didn't think any TOS episode was capable of (sure, some came close, but were always hindered by some dose of 60's syndrome cheesiness, from either a minor overall tone or moment, or whole scenes that just make you want to scream in agony).

    I really can't wait to see the remastered version of this episode when it airs in February. They sure as hell better not be oo slavishly loyal to the original FX shots, as there's potential for some incredible shots here. I don't want to just see scale corrections and missing ships added.

    Bottomline- not just "Definitey Essential", but being easily the best episode of the series, it's absolutely essential.


    Interesting note that Decker's son appears in Star Trek 1 (though this doesn't effect TDM's classification for how essential it is as, spoiler alert!, Star Trek: The Motionless Picture will not be getting an "essential" ranking by me ;) ).

    The books have done a few attempts at elaborating on the Doomsday machines as well- some seem to establish them as a weapon created by an ancient race (designated by the Borg as Species 4672), possibly The Preservers (mentioned in a season 3 episode), to use against the Borg (to destroy worlds assimilated by the Borg). There is speculation that the galactic barrier surrounding the galaxy was created (also possibly by The Preservers) to keep these Planet Killers out- though at least one or two slipped in, it seems. In a comic, Voyager had to deal with one of them, though their attempts to recreate Kirk's stunt failed, they eventually defeated it using a nanoprobe virus.
     
  2. DarthArsenal6

    DarthArsenal6 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2001

    Really ?
    Then I think you mised the entire plot of the film

    One of the most underated films ever.


     
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Well, maybe it if didn't put me to sleep, I'd have paid better attention ;)

    I will, however, re-endure it one more time for this thread, after I finish TOS.

    It just seems like The Changeling would be a preferable alternative to the same story.


    However, the lovely "inspection of the refitted ship", if cut off from the rest of the film into it's own little short, would be a fine addition to my list ;)

    EDIT- in fact... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_2bRVrMOZM :D
     
  4. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    Yup, that's great...
     
  5. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    A refernece to something past the Warp 10 barrier is irksome, though it's early for the franchise so i guess it's forgiveable (hell, I still remember a TNG trading card or some kind of spinoff book mentioning Romulan ships going at Warp 12...)

    Ah, if you're referring to the Voyager episode that says warp 10 is essentially infinite speed, it is Voyager that is in err. OS, the movies and TNG refer to ships capable of passing the warp 9.whatever limitations. Warp 12 is mentioned more than once. I think warp 13 is the fastest any ST ship traveled.


    Warning: Applying logic to ST:eek:S will make you seriously crazy. Just sayin'.

    Logic works in any ST series?


    Seen the "Adonis" eppy many times--the Nomad one, too. Both pretty essential I think.

    Essential, how so? I mean, I like them all right, but how do they warrant being a necessary addition?
     
  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    This weeks's remastered ep was Where No Man Has Gone Before. And while the episode is still iffy as a whole, they did a great job with the new FX (love the shot of the saucer section breaking through the clouds- wish it went on longer instead of breaking to the wider shot)- it's a shame that an episode like this gets these gorgeous, better flowing shots, while Balance of Terror was stucl with overly faithful and dull recreations.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyqo7cOmXww

    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_intro_shot.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_delves_into_barrier.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_leaving_barrier.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_clears_barrier.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_ent_limps_along.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/wnmhgb/new_delta_vega_night.jpg]
     
  7. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    That looks great.
     
  8. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    Actually, according to the warp curve used from TNG onward, an object traveling at Warp 10 would occupy all points in the universe simultaneously. It is the theoretical maximum "in universe".

    Of course, in "All Good Things", the future Enterprise reaches Warp 13 (IIRC), but we don't know if they redrew the warp curve again like they did between TOS and TNG.

    The old warp curve was basically determined by the formula v = (w^3) * c where w is the warp factor, c is the speed of light, and v is the ship's velocity. Warp 15 on the old scale is about Warp 9.9 on the new scale.

    There's some good information in the wikipedia article on warp drive.

    Kimball Kinnison
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    208- I, Mudd:
    -Premise: An android takes over the Enterprise and forces Kirk and crew down to a planet of other androids seemingly led by Harry Mudd
    -T2Q Comments: Surprisingly, this one wasn't quite as unbearable as Mudd's Women and was obviously TOS's attempt at a comedy episode. It kinda works at times, but is basicly a cartoon sitcom type approach (though Spock's "I love you, but I hate you" line is pretty funny). Also, Uhura's love with immortality comes outta nowhere- must have picked that up in her 2 hour college reeducation... Oh, and Kirk: 4, Computers: 0- yet another machine talked to death by Jimmy boy.
    I'll be generous and say it's an "Ok Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential" and, really, that's about the highest it could ever get because otherwise it requires one to have seen Mudd's Women/raikse that episodes classification, and that just isn't going to happen :p


    209- Metamorphosis:
    -Premise: Kirk, Spock and McCoy escort a Federation diplomat who has fallen ill to a serious disease back to the Enterprise, but are forced down to a habitable asteroid by an alin force called The Companion, where they discover a young Zephrane Cochrane
    -T2Q Comments: I was pretty surprised to see Cochrane pop up here- i was under the impression he was invented for First Contact, but apparently not. There's apparently a reference to his dissapearance in an Enterprise episode as well, so it kinda all ties together at least.
    The episode itself isn't too bad up until the end where it kinda falls apart with the tacked on love story.
    With the Cochrane connection, I'll go with "Potentially Essential, But Not Necessarily Good" (a category that's been somewhat bare up until now, only joined by Arena)

    210- Journey to Babel:
    -Premise: The Enterprise carries several diplomats to an important conference, including Spock's parents- but someone onboard wishes to disrupt the conference and is in contact with a fast and mysterious ship trailing the Enterprise.
    -T2Q Comments: Surprisingly good episode- we meet Spock's father (though it's kinda odd to have known him playing the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror) and mother, as well Andorians and Tellorites (the other two founding Federation races besides Humans and Vulcans). Having only primarily known the Andorians through the recurring character on Enterprise, I was pleased to see this still matched the somewhat quirky speech style and look to the Andorians in this episode that that actor on Enterprise injected into his performance. Bones' "Shh! Shh!" at the end was kinda funny too.
    With the various core races, especially given the episodes on Enterprise and Sarek's role in future Trek stories, gonna have to give this one a "Definitely Essential" ranking. Looking forward to the remastere dversion hitting soon (the preview of which is up online and shows some promising shots, including the shuttle landing sequence, the Enterprise's pahsers tracking in an attempt to hit the Orion ship, as well as the interesting redesign of the Orion ship itself- which is still a pinwheel of lights, but actually looks like a ship now).


    Up next, 211: Friday's Child, 212: The Deadly Years and 213: Obsession.
     
  10. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    Mudd is always a harbinger of a bad episode, though this isn't as bad as "Mudd's Women", quite possibly the worst ST episode ever.

    The other two are Essential, I think.
     
  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    And finally we have the remastered Doomsday Machine! They did a really good job with this one.

    Updated FX Reel Video

    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_06.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_09.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_10.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_11.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_21.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_29.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_28.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_30.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_36.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/doomsday_ep/new_37.jpg]
     
  12. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    A bit dark...
     
  13. Wilderness_Comedian

    Wilderness_Comedian Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    The starship visuals were top notch, but the Doomsday Machine itself looked more cartoony.
     
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    It's motions were better though- I love the "tail cam" shot of it slowly turning after the Enterprise- it's organic feel really adds a bit of creepiness to Spock's "and it is, pursuing us." line.
     
  15. Wilderness_Comedian

    Wilderness_Comedian Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2005
    I liked the shot where the Doomsday machine was sucking the Enterprise in and then let's it go, and the ENT just goes off.
     
  16. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Remastered Doomsday, awesome! That's actually one I want remastered.
     
  17. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 1998
    The Doomsday Machine has long been my favorite episode. Unfortunately, they play these so late here that I can't always stay awake. I probably saw about 20% of it between nodding off, but it looked great.
     
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Follow that video link, then, it has all the new FX bits.
     
  19. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 1998
    Yep, I checked it out. Very impressive!
     
  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    This past weekend's remastered episode was Amok Time, which had only a few, though rather notable, new FX shots, which includes some new establishing shots of the Vuclan landscape more in tune with what we see in the subsequent films and series.

    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/amoktime/new_ent_close_pass_1.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/amoktime/new_young_tpring.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/amoktime/new_ent_orbit_vulcan.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/amoktime/new_enter_arena_1.jpg]
    [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/amoktime/new_enter_arena_2.jpg] [image=http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/amoktime/new_spock_beamout.jpg]

    video reel

    Apparently they evn considered color-correcting the Vulcan sky to be less red like it is in it's other appearances, but it would have proved too costly.
     
  21. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    Looks very much better, though.
     
  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Agreed.

    And, for status report- I haven't had the chance to watch too many eps lately, though I've got a couple done towards the next batch, and have been catching a couple of the enahcned ones on TV, so I'll be able to go a little quicker when I come to them in the episode order.
     
  23. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    Well, you're on page six, so you need to find those episodes...just warning you, I've been known to use cattle prods... [face_mischief]
     
  24. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Sorry I've been away from this for a bit- the first two of these next three I actually watched awhile back, so my comments will be brief on them since I'm probably forgetting some specifics.

    211: Friday's Child:
    -Premise: Kirk, Spock and McCoy must flee with a pregnant woman after an attempt to establish a mining treaty with the local population is interrupted by Klingon manpulation.
    -T2Q Comments: Someone call Q- more people have stolen headwear from his silly hats collection. Overall, this ep was kinda dull- didn't care for the intrigue, though I give the episode credit for having a semi-strong female character for once (the slapping scene between her and McCoy in particular). The cuchie-coo humor at the end sucks though. Groan-inducing, that. Scotty's subplot with the Klingon ship doesn't add up to much in the long run as well, though it does serve it's purpose, it's almost filler in a way, though it had potential to be more.
    Despite the presence of Klingons, not much here worth seeing. The Klingons make it borderline "Potentially Essential, But Not Necessarily Good", but could easily be downgraded to "Average" or "Ok".


    212: The Deadly Years:
    -Premise: The command staff is infected with a disease that causes rapid aging, Commodore Stocker must consider taking command from Kirk when faced with a link of the disease to the Romulans.
    -T2Q Comments: First off, the aging makeup is obviosuly not very convincing (Shatner's hairline would never receed ! ;) ). Beyond that, the actual aging and onsetting senility to the characters comes across as silly, but there are a few decent elements here. There's a fun throwback reference to the Corbomite Manuever here, the "I'm going to run out of samples" line by Chechov was good, and Commodore Stocker is a pretty decent character, probably the best Starfleet command character we've seen above Kirk- more low key is his demeanor, and lacking the over-the-top expressions that Decker's actor was prone to. It's a shame the script forced artifical stupidity upon Stocker just so Kirk would seem to be smarter, though he wasn't (for the most part) in this case. It's annoying, really. Looking forward to seeing this one remastered, as the battle with the Romulan ships could prove to be pretty neat.
    Due to the Romulan connection, I'll rank this one as "Potentially Essential, But Not Necessarily Good"- and is certainly on more solid footing than Friday's Child.

    213: Obsession:
    -Premise: Kirk becomes obsessed with hunting down a gaseous creature he previously encountered more than a decade earlier when it killed many of his fellow crew on his first assignment after the academy.
    -T2Q Comments: Though the Ahab obsession storyline will eventually be done far better later on in First Contact by Picard, this episode does a pretty good job with it, and though it almost falls into the typical cliche of "obsession turns character into irrational, snappy, angry and paranoid person", it manages to pull itself back from teetering on the edge of that abyss (during the "conspire" scene on the bridge). The characterizations here are quite solid, and no 60's-cringe moments. Also, what a shocker- a named Red Shirt actually survives the episode, and wasn't annoying either! And, I must say, that big rock that's supposed to be 20 times harder than diamonds sounds an awful lot like a hollow wooden box when Kirk knocks on it- you'd think the sound effects people could have easily done something about that.
    Doesn't tie into anything much (other than yet another "Kirk's Academy years" backstory element the next movie will probably have to stumble around or through ;) ), but a reccomended epiosde nonethless- "Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential".

    Now I'm officially about halfway through TOS ::)


    Up next, 214: Wolf in the Fold, 215: The Trouble With Tribbles and 216 - The Gamesters Of Triskelion.
     
  25. Zaz

    Zaz Jedi Knight star 9

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 1998
    I really need to rewatch the original show, because I don't think I've seen the first two. The last one I remember as pretty good.