Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before-DS9:Sound,Tears of the Prophets,VOY: Hope&Fear

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest, Jun 25, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I was referring to the music, actually- though also in the context of the overall sequence.

    TOS: The intro fanfare and build-up is classic, but I really don't like the vocals portion-sounds too much like an old sitcom to me. Even the update during the end credits of the newest film I didn't care for. The version used briefly in ST3's score wasn't bad, though (though I much prefer the main theme of that film).

    TNG: Highly memorable, exciting and epic. Love it. However, I can't listen to the narration every time, so I often did skip past the credits to the last pullback shot.

    DS9 v1.0: I really do love this theme- it's very majestic and noble sounding. I've yet to skip past the DS9 intro because of it, and look forward to it every time.

    VOY: Again, it's not a terrible theme, but it's just a bit too slow without having that emotional grasp that the DS9 theme manages to achieve despite also being relatively slow itself.

    So I'd order them, best to last: DS9v1, TNG, VOY, TOS. Though it's very hard for me to decide between TNG and DS9v1.
  2. Nevermind Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    The original casting for Janeway was Genevieve Bujold.
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
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    DS9 307: Civil Defense
    -Premise: Sisko, Jake, and O'Brien accidentally trigger an old Cardassian security system which believes that the Occupation is still going on and the station has been taken in a Bajoran workers' rebellion.

    -T2Q Comments: Cool premise- how come the station seems more effective/automated under remote Cardassian control than it does under direct Federation control? Station security is never this effective- all due respect to Odo.

    "3 years and I was finally startig to think of this place as home". Interesting comment, as it's almost the viewer's POV as well. It's hard to see DS9 as a hostile environment since it's so directly portrayed as "home base" for the function within the show.

    "What do you mean, 'We're trapped'?"
    "I mean-" ::taps the forcefield:: "We're trapped."

    This can't be understated enough- Sisko just tore a metal handle, one designed to withstand use as a means of moving a heavy ore-carrying mine cart, off the cart with his bare hands in less than 5 seconds. DO NOT arm wrestle this man- hell, I'd advise against even thumb wrestling this man.

    Garek! huzzah! Something seems off about Garek in this scene- the voice, maybe?

    The first DS9 self destruct sequence.

    Gotta love Dukat's amusement at the situation.

    "Garek! Groveling alone in a corner! That alone makes my trip worthwhile!"

    "..would you allow 2,000 people aboard this station to die simply because you don't"

    The message for Dukat is a great little moment, with his silent reaction/body language. Garek's comments over Dukat possibly flirting with Kira are amusing given his offhand comment of Kira when she was a Cardassian.

    Does anyone facepalm/half facepalm more than Odo?

    You'd think Sisko would at least ask for Jake's shirt to help cover his arms and such from burns. I'm not sure feeding the energy from an overloading reactor into the shields powered by the same overloading reactor would dissipate the energy as suggested here...

    Really awesome episode, though there are shades of Disaster here (and this apparently also resembles the Voyager episode Worst Case Scenario), but it's somewhat more sinister, with some good twists via Dukat and other Cardassians, plus some insights into Garek and Dukat's history. Also Quark's cousin mentioned here apparently shows up later a couple times.

    Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: the episode had an extremely long and difficult gestation, with every writer on the staff having taken a pass at it before a version met with approval.

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    308: Meridian
    -Premise: Jadzia falls in love with a scientist on a planet whose inhabitants shift between this universe and a plane of pure energy, re-emerging every sixty years. Back on DS9, Quark tries to obtain a holo-image of Major Kira for an erotic holosuite program.

    -T2Q Comments: Eventual Andorian dude as this guy here. Way too human a people for seemingly trans-dimensional gamma quadrant inhabitants. Everyone's very cheery in this plotline... feels out of plac
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    DS9 309: Defiant
    -Premise: When Commander William T. Riker from the Enterprise arrives on Deep Space 9, he takes a liking to Kira, who gives him a tour of the Defiant. But Riker is revealed to be not who he claims to be when he attacks Kira and steals the ship.

    -T2Q Comments: Riker crosses over- mentions spending his time in the holosuite as an alternate to the daubo tables after Sisko's comments...but, Riker, you live and work on the Enterprise, with several holodecks at your disposal- beyond the programs (of which I have no dobt he'd have any trouble acquiring or emulating if needed), there's nothing different between them other than reputation.

    Right after Dax goes "She's gone into warp- I've lost them.", Sisko has the greatest "What. The Frack." eyebrow raise expression ever.

    ...and so returns Thomas Riker- nice touch that this shady Riker wears a goatee, not a beard, ha. Kalita from Preemptive Strike returns here as well.

    I find it odd they never follow-up on Miles' encounter with Thomas- it seemed like there would be some payoff there.

    "This ship was built to fight- i think it's time she got her chance." actually, Tom, she already got that chance- stuff went boom, then she went bang.

    The whole Obsidian Order/secret fleet conflict with the Central Command is a great element here- when Gul Dukat ponders if the OO ships would fire on the CC ships, you really don't know what will happen, which is a good thing for Trek.

    I hope they get a chance to follow up on Kira's promise about Thomas's rescue from prison ( ::looks it up:: Dammit! Seems it was something Frakes wanted to do but something the producers specifically told the writers they were not interested in).

    Also interesting just how few FX shots are in this episode given the subject matter and events- very economical yet effective.

    For following up on Thomas, setting up some interesting Cardassian political/military elements- Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Thomas Riker here calls the Defiant a "tough little ship". William Riker will call it the same thing in First Contact.

    310: Fascination
    -Premise: Ambassador Lwaxana Troi visits the station to attend the Bajoran Gratitude Festival, resulting in an outbreak of passion throughout the station as people admit their secret feelings for others.

    -T2Q Comments: Kira seems a bit too eager to see Bareil, given the events that took place during The Collaborator. Keiko and Molly return. Mama Troi returns too.

    Crap, is this going to be "The Naked Lite"?



    k, the fight had me laughing- especially since Sisko blocks nonchalantly what is obviously Bareil's full effort.

    I'm surprised they didn't make a link between Molly's illness and Mama Troi's condition, either as a reaction or inciting incident.

    Miles' storyline with his functionally dysfunctional marriage is pretty good- it's just a shame the silliness of the other plotline takes away from it. The comedy doesn't quite work here, except for a few fleeting moments (Dax talking with only her hands in frame behind Sisko).

    Not as TNG S1 bad as The Storyteller (the Miles storyline elevates it above that), but not good either. Ok Episode, But Not Essential.

    Up next: DS9 311 & 312: Past Tense, Parts I & II.

    The Babylon Project Log:

    -Space stations ending with a numerical designation that are of commerce ports in nature (prominently featuring a casino area), near a giant swirling blue vortex passageway (wormhole/jumpgate) used for travel and a location of advanced creation (prophet temple/Great Machine).
    -Hard-edged female second in command, pessimistic, sarcastic security chief. somewhat ethnic doctor.
    -Characters named Dukat/Dukhat
    -A spiritual race recently coming free of occupation by a more militaristic civilization, the conflict of which led the spiritual race to become more milita
  5. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I'll preface this by saying that it was around this time that I started to not catch DS9 regularly (though I think it had more to do with the airing times and the hype around Voyager than anything else).

    However, I recall catching parts of this 2 parter as it was around this time you started to see segments on the local news channels focusing on how DS9's acting and character focus (particularly Avery Brooks, as I'll soon comment on) was making it stand out from other Treks while addressing social issues like classic Trek and they were highlighting this 2 parter as part of those reports.

    I think that, outside of the Tribbles anniversary episode, this was likely the highpoint of media saturation/coverage/awareness for DS9, at least as far as I can recall within my own experience and perceptions.

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    DS9 311: Past Tense, Part I
    -Premise: Trapped three hundred years in the past, Sisko, Bashir and Dax find themselves confronting one of the darkest hours in Earth's history...

    -T2Q Comments: Miles comes across more perplexed and less distressed than he should be over 3 command officers not materializing after using a transporter.

    Frank Military- now that's a name! Also appearing is the dad from Gremlins as the security officer. Ablative armor- but not the kick-ass batmobile type, alas.

    Amusing moment of temporal recognition- this guy Dax is talking to talks about going to high school back in the 90's, so this guy is somewhere close to in age to myself in 2024- given the time periods previously explored by Trek time travel episodes, this is the first that significantly crosses into my own lifespan (as I was only 5 years old when The Bounty went lookin' for whales, and Khan's eugenics war of the 90's contradicts reality). It's a curious moment.

    This computer tech guy's actor has a most unique quiet voice.

    This whole conversation on the steet between Sisko and Bashir is quite excellent and applicable to a scary degree to recent events- it's also quite fascinating that here you have members of Roddenberry's perfect humanity admitting it's quite possible humanity could turn back from that "perfection" if their support structure (the Federation) was removed and dire circumstances come to shove.

    I feel like there's a scene missing with them on the rooftop- they spend a decent amount of time in the episode focusing on getting the lay of the land and any exits via trying to get to a rooftop, but there's no "don't see a way out" payoff.

    BTW, I can't recall the last time Earth looked so damn bright and blue than it does here against the Defiant- probably because it's not lit as brightly as the Enterprise and spacedocks were on TNG, but still, you get that impression visually.

    My one reservation about this episode so far is how much of a random technobabble BS reason was used to facilitate the time travel here.

    Also it's kinda interesting to note the different attitudes towards 20th/21st century medicine between Bones and Bashir. Bones of 23rd Century medicine looks upon the 20th century medicine as barbaric, yet Bashir of the 24th see viable means of treatment in the 21st's.

    Interesting that, following the discussion of humanity's state of being should the support structure of the Federation be removed, that the timeline flux removes the Federation- I wonder if that is coincidence (could simply be an excuse to avoid allowing the Defiant crew to simply look for historical database info that would pinpoint when Sisko and co are) or by design (guess I'll find out soon enough, no?).

    Good, if not entirely unexpected, cliffhanger moment.

    Trivia: The concept of the
  6. Nevermind Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    It's also around this time that I stopped seeing regular episodes of DS9. I never following TNG, and Voyager only for the first season.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    VOY 104: Time and Again
    -Premise: While investigating a massive explosion that destroyed all life on a planet, Janeway and Paris are swept back a day in time, where they must prevent the explosion.

    -T2Q Comments: Though Tom might be jumping the gun here a bit, he does have a good point about being the only humans out there, ha.

    A little awkward introducing the possibility of Kes's powers- "no one believes those stories" until now, of course.

    This story is already hurt by the look-and-act-entirely-human nature of these people- also the fact that they're using recognizably arabic numerals in their time pieces.

    "She's the healthiest member of her species I've ever seen- the only member of her species I'e ever seen."

    "Under normal circumstances I'd say we should come back tomorrow."

    Don't care for this kid, he's annoying despite occasional moments hinting at something better.

    I don't know about you, but I can hear the conversations of people walking 4 feet in front of me.

    "A most enlightened philosophy" Neelix is a bit of a kiss-ass. Warp 6- violation of warp barrier rules, Janeway- you rebel you!

    I do like the general 12 Monkeys "we caused it" angle, but as much as I love time travel episodes, this one just comes across as somewhat mundane and predictable. The Tom/kid plotline is hokey and unnecessary. The first hint of Kes's powers might be notable, but I think we'll be able to get by without this one (especially because her discovery of those powers is undone/erased by the altered timeline).

    I think the real core problem here is that this is simply not a Delta Quadrant story. This would be barely excusable as a Gamma Quadrant story. This is an Alpha Quadrant story, plain and simple- the elements that thrust this story forward (knowing the time of destruction off of a readable, digital timepiece and crew members being able to be mistook for local population without any excuses or non-clothing disguises simply doesn't pass in the Delta Quadrant.

    It's also odd that they'd do what are essentially two time travel/loop-like episodes in a row, especially for the start of a series. This isn't necessarily a bad episode by itself, but it's just out of place for the series and would be average at best even on TNG. So we'll go with that here- Average.

    Trivia: Inspired by the bombing of Dresden with the notion of what if you were there a day before and knew it was coming?

    The focus on Janeway this early was a lesson learned from DS9 where they felt they didn't anchor Sisko very well in DS9's first season.

    Story editor Kenneth Biller also felt it was unfortunate that this first planet episode featured a race that looked completely human. He also felt the episode suffered from child actor syndrome. Jeri Taylor commented on the back-to-back temporal mechanics nature of these episodes, observing they had went to that well too often and wished they had done this episode in the second season instead.

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    DS9 313: Life Support
    -Premise: After a serious accident, Bashir struggles to save the life of Vedek Bareil while Kai Winn concludes a peace treaty with Cardassia. Jake and Nog reluctantly explore the differences between Federation and Ferengi cultures.

    -T2Q Comments: Winn returns, as does Bareil (in a more respectable state than his last appearance- unconcious ;) ).

    I'm already dreading this Nog/Jake double date subplot. The medical drama plot has been a bit dry so far- though the notion of diplomatic relations between Cardassia and Bajor holds promise.

    "I don't even know what a Tholian looks like!" hehe.

    The Jake/
  8. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
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    VOY 105: Phage
    -Premise: Neelix's lungs are removed by a race that suffers from a deadly phage that is slowly destroying their population.

    -T2Q Comments: At least they're touching upon supply limitations here with rations and dilithium- but... don't replicators just run on energy?

    The brief medical emergency scene with Neelix is executed rather well. I am kind of liking Janeway's semi-gung-ho approach to things, going straight for the phaser to break through the rock without much consideration- you almost get the impression they were trying to go for an approach along the lines of this crew really being "the next class" in that they're the officers who've been reading starfleet reports of crazy crap like this all their careers so they're more prepared to handle it. I'm not saying that's how it'll ultimately play out, but I get that impression, at least momentarily, here.

    "But a hologram is just a projection of light held within a magnetic containment field- there's no actual matter involved." ::SLAP::
    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    I'm surprised they didn't try to air this one back to back with DS9's Life Support, given the similar subplots.

    The blood toxicity was at 95% then suddenly Paris says it's rteurning to normal- can you really say that if it was so high? shouldn't you at leats wait for it to fall a bit more before making that claim?

    "You're ceiling is hideous."
    "I didn't design the room, I just work here."

    "I'm a Doctor, Mr. Neelix, not a decorator."

    "Don't worry- I'm not going to try to kiss you- I'm just adjusting the restraint."
    "I'll try to contain my disappointment."

    Robert Picardo is making this episode.

    Interesting camera work with the panning between stations during the start of the red alert.

    Although this is now the second episode to deal with a scene involving multiple Voyagers- it's worth noting this is probably the most ships (Starfleet or otherwise) we've ever seen on screen in any Trek story so far- with possible exception to the multiverse of Enterprises in TNG: Parallels.

    Surely there's a solution here better than just scanners? like, I dunno, use some kind of non-damaging laser, fire at the various reflections until you hit the one that it doesn't bounce off of?

    Haha, sure, Chakotay, take credit for MY idea, why dontcha?

    The confrontation conversation with the aliens comes across heavy handed, too spelled out. With all the momentum the episode had till now, throwing all the exposition in here at the end just doesn't work very well-they try to go for juxtaposed "good people doing bad things" sympathetic approach to them, which is all well and good, but they rush it out all at once as if they're trying too hard to make them likeable.

    However, I do like how Janeway kinda snaps under the pressure/stress of the situation- lamenting that she doesn't even have the limited option of turning them over to the authorities out here.

    Also, shouldn't they be much more concerned over bringing members of a species carrying this terrible Phage disease aboard?

    Ah, the replicators are offline, well at least that answers that.

    With exception to the extended exposition scene (though even that at least has a decent payoff), this was a pretty decent episode- Robert Picardo definitely made the episode, though. So for an early episode like this, I'll initially go with Good Episode, But not Necessarily Essential (though choosing to train Kes as a nurse could be a little noteworthy, depending on how they introduce it next time it's brought up).

    Buuuuut... seems these aliens do show up several times down the road. Ok, then, we'll move it up to Potentially Essential (depending on where those other episodes end up going).

    Trivia: Original concept for this episode focused on Paris losing his heart- they felt the lungs were less cornball and using Neelix was
  9. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    Dare I point out that this episode is likely to clash with reality as well? :p Look at the ridiculously large computers, the single cell phone, the sanctuary districts themselves...given the liberties Star Trek of the 90's took with the 21st century (the Bell Riots, the Mars mission, and First Contact) we might as well just accept the Eugenics Wars in the same spirit.

  10. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Oh, I know- but it hasn't contradicted reality yet ;). And, as I mnetioned inthe trivia, LA was proposing something like Sanctuary Districts for real, so you never know how far it could be off ;).
  11. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    DS9 316: Prophet Motive
    -Premise: Grand Nagus Zek has become a philanthropist, and Quark worries that he may have gone insane.

    -T2Q Comments:

    [image=] This is a rather disturbing way to open an episode.

    The dart game mindtricks are amusing.

    "Greed is dead- that's the 10th Rule of Acquisiion!"
    "No it's not! The 10th Rule of Acquisition is Greed is Eternal!"

    The Nagus's head in the box reminds me too much of Pee-Wee's Playhouse.

    Quark's encounter with the wormhole aliens is actually a mostly neat sequence- but it took us a long ways to get there.

    So, despitre an interesting scene or two, I just find the Nagus too annoying for them to compensate for. Average.

    Trivia: Directed by Rene, the dart game introduced here was originally going to be a pool table until they were told Voyager had taken that idea, then they thought of cards but felt it would be copying TNG, so they settled on Darts.

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    DS9 317: Visionary
    -Premise: O'Brien makes repeated jumps through time; a Romulan delegation visits the station.

    -T2Q Comments: The Dominion are the greatest threat to the Alpha Quadrant in the last century? Uh, hello? THE BORG?!

    "You think Quark had something to do with this?"
    (almost perplexed) "I always investigate Quark."

    DS9 Kaboom! Rather spectacular one at that. This is the first and only time DS9 is destroyed (unless you want to count [link=]it's unfortunate battle with Babylon 6[/link] ;)).

    This scene with Miles talking to the future Miles in his bedroom shouldn't be possible- each time Miles timeflashed forward, he was able to alter that future outcome through the knowledge of his flashforward after he returned, so, if he flashforwarded to the destruction of DS9 where Future Miles was asleep and, thus, wasn't aware of the circumstances of the destruction (in other words, the future version of Miles if he hadn;t be warned of the destruction), his knowledge of that future upon his return would have altered that future- specifically, when he returns to the future, the Miles he awakens in bed should now be aware of the pending destruction (and probably shouldn't be in bed to begin with), as he should now be the future version of himself with that knowledge. In other words, this circumstance shouldn't exist anymore.

    They TRY to address this regarding the radiation, but the radiation effect should be a secondary concern to the impossibility of reality.

    Romulans used a confined temporal singularity to power their warp core? Are you telling me that a Romulan Warbird is technically...a time machine? [face_laugh] Well, I guess if you're gonna make a time machine, why not do it with some style! ;)

    Beyond the jokes, why the hell would that not have caused problems before?

    OK, this whole Miles thing is starting to fall apart. The idea of the Miles swap is a good basic concept, but the execution, sheesh...Also Miles shouldn't remember a game happening at this point.

    So this was a pretty solid time travel story up until it just all falls apart in the end for no good reason- everything that happens and everything that Miles learns in that timeflash could have been learned without that Miles being unaware of the pending destruction.

    So there's some interesting follow-up to the Romulan/Federation aspects, the events of The Search and Odo/Kira, and it's a pretty good episode despite the large logical fallacy at the end. It's Potentially Essential in that regards, but I'll go with Good Episode for now.

    Trivia: Originally it was Odo who jumps forward to see
  12. Nevermind Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    I liked all the Voyager casting with the exception of Neelix and Janeway. The former is cheese and the latter is wooden, with a jaw of steel. Too bad. I believe Genieve Bujold was the original casting for Janeway; I don't know if she'd have been better.
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    In the footage of what they shot with her that has been released, she felt out of place to me- not due to familiarity with Janeway, but rather that the actress didn't seem comfortable in the role. She couldn't sell the tech stuff in the way Mulgrew did.

    While I didn't like Mulgrew at first (mostly due to her voice- a bit nasally/gravelly mixture) , I eventually moved past it and can say she was the better choice of the two.
  14. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
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    DS9 318: Distant Voices
    -Premise: After an alien assault leaves Bashir unconscious, he is trapped inside his mind.

    -T2Q Comments: Garek! huzzah!

    Bashir is turning 30- he always struck me as younger. But then, I'm turning 30 in a few months, so that kinda makes me feel pretty good, ha.

    TAhe turbolift ceiling doesn't seem to be constructed of material that was intended to be banged upon, heh. Age makeup...this doesn't bode well.

    Can one really rely on instrumentation within a coma-induced hallucination/dream to verify for the comatosed individual that they are, in fact, in a coma? I don't think so.

    "When I'm talking to you, I'm really only talking to myself."
    "So, you're saying I'm you?"
    "In a manner of speaking."
    "And I suppose he's you too?"

    WHAT DID HE JUST SAY. :mad: :oops:

    They're explaining all the symbology way too much- there is no subtlety here whatsoEVER AND OH MY GOD STOP TALKING WE GET IT ALREADY!!!

    Having this Lithian guy represent death in this moody setting hints at such potential that part of this structure could have had if they hadn't made this episode go horrible.

    So let me get this straight- they wasted several minutes having the characters act strangely/goofy to set up the huge Explain-The-Concept-With-The-Finese-Of-A-Hydrogen-Bomb scene and establish their function/what they represent...only to kill almost all of them off practically immediately afterwards. What. The. ****. Really, they could have spent them time with alt-Miles instead since he's the only one that actually does anything in the episode.

    I think they have Quark's actor performing/recorded without the lisp here...

    The last couple scenes (after the Lithian reveal) do further illustrate some of the potential this episode could have had- there may be the one TNG episode I wanted to re-edit, but this is one DS9 episode I wouldn't mind rewriting.


    Trivia: The anecdote of Bashir mixng up fibers links a comment made by Bahsir in Season 1's "Q-Less" with events in Season 5. Though the Season 5 plot had not yet been conceived yet, the inclusion here is due to pressure from the writer's wife, a pre-vet, who had been annoyed by the comment in Season 1, knowing the two fibers were nothing alike.

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    DS9 319: Through the Looking Glass
    -Premise: In the "mirror universe," Sisko must persuade the alternate version of his dead wife to join the Terran Rebels, or he will watch her die a second time.

    -T2Q Comments: Mirror Universe again, huzzah! er.. hazzuh!

    Mirror Tuvok cameo. Sisko seems to know how to impersonate Mirror Sisko a little too quickly, and you'd think a surprise like Dax mackin' on him might throw him off his game for a moment.

    I don't think it's possible to wear an outfit tighter than Mirror Kira's (I'll note, however, that I had not yet seen Gem's costume in TRON: Legacy at the time I originally wrote this [face_love]).

    Duel-weilding Sisko :cool:. There's not a lot to say- solid action episode, awesome AU episode.

    Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: This episode contains the only reference to the Romulans in the Mirror Universe. Alliance ships decloak here, which apparently directly contradicts the premise of a future Mirror Universe episode. Avery Brooks was very happy when the script as Sisko has sex in this episode (twice) for the first time since the sh
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    VOY 108: Ex Post Facto
    -Premise: Tom Paris is convicted of murder. However, he denies having committed the crime, even though the images extracted from the victim's own memory seem to prove his guilt.

    -T2Q Comments: This initial setup, before the "sentencing", reminds me of the one episode from SG-1 Season 9...

    Why is there a freaking dog on this planet? And why is this guy using the term "doggie" to describe it? I mean, are they kidding? Did no one, in the long process of writing, hiring/casting and training a dog think that one shouldn't exist here? Or are they just not trying?

    If they have Paris aboard- why not just warp out of there? They're never going to come back here again- they're just gunning for home, afterall- there's no prime directive violation here.

    "A what? What did he say? A mind what?". Nice touch, if delivered too cheesy.

    Janeway's shuttle threat plan is a nice moment of semi-badassery for her. So at least the dog's role has a function in the plot, but still- why a dog? why CALL IT a dog? Throw a costume on the little bugger, call it a pog, a rog, an umberchan, anything but a dog.

    Maybe it's just those non-Delta Quadrant-appropriate details that are irking me so, but I'll give it some credit- it's one of the few trial episodes in the franchise that isn't outright horrible- though that could just be because it's more of an investigation than a trial.

    It's not a bad episode, and there are some good elements at play here at times (the noir angle of the story, for instance), but I don't believe I'd want to rewatch this one again. Maybe I'd be more forgiving if it were an Alpha Quadrant story, but it's not.

    "OK Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential"

    Trivia: Directed by LeVar Burton- the first TNG cast member to direct an episode of Voyager. While most were pleased with the general concepts of punishment via reliving the victims' murder, there was a divide on opinion of the resulting show- Michael Piller (who wrote the episode) felt it was one of his favorites, Jeri Taylor thought it was one of the weakest citing the earth-like elements and the marring of Paris's characer.

    Apparently Piller was very much into Pulp Fiction at the time, feeling that "everything should be like Pulp Fiction", and that this was his Pulp Fiction.

    Roxann Dawson had a lot of trouble delivering her one line of technobabble on the show- thinking she could handle one line, she didn't prepare for the line until that morning, something that she did not attempt again after her embarassment here.

    [image=] [image=]
    VOY 109: Emanations
    -Premise: Investigating mineral deposits on an asteroid, Harry Kim is trapped on an alien planet.

    -T2Q Comments: "What's this?" gee, I dunno, kinda looks like a spiderweb, Einstein.

    The cavern full of web-cocooned bodies is a creepy visual. Ok, I can get agreeing with Chakotay not to disturb the bodies and respect the dead, but agreeing to visual observations instead of passive scans makes no sense- they're passive scans. Seems like they're just trying to setup a scenario to plausibly address any "why didn't their tricorders pick something up?" complaints- even if they don't actually do that here, it's still the foreshadowed impression.

    Initially, these native aliens seemed like they were going to grate and be your typical stock characters, but this is starting to evolve into an interesting exploration (or, at least, a realistic conversation) into questions about death.

    Small oddity that this chick would understand the nature of a spirit enough to debunk the suggestion that it's not a part of their beliefs- in other words can something be a foreign concept if one is familiar enough with it to see it as not applicable? (Kim is their first a
  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    "Look at the size of that thing!"

    You may recall I briefly reviewed Generations' prologue between my reviews of ST6 and Encounter at Farpoint, two and a half years ago. Since then, I've gone through all of TNG, a third of DS9 and have begun Voyager. I've also tried to avoid watching Generations as a whole, to save it for it's proper chronological order.

    I've also avoided rereading my review of the prologue, so that those comments woouldn't entirely influence my perception of the film (though there will be many similarities). Why? I think it'll be fun to see how my old comments match up to my new ones, and, in this way, my review kinda mirrors the past & present structure of Generations itself.

    So, I'll first repost my early review of the prologue, and then begin the big main review of the whole film.


    Star Trek (VII): Generations (Prologue)
    Kirk, Scotty & Chekov attend the launching of the Enterprise-B, when the ship must attempt to rescue the passengers aboard transport ships threatened by a mysterious spacial energy ribbon.

    T2Q Comments: Figured it'd be interesting to review the opening sequence to this movie as an epilogue to the TOS era (I'll review the entire film properly after I finish TNG). It's nice to see the Enterprise-B, as it begins to setup later crews and generations- a notion also conveyed through the introduction to Sulu's daughter (and the Kirk line of "When did Sulu have time to have a family?" is a nice thematic throwback to the campfire conversations of 5). The banter between Kirk. Chekov and Scotty is great here, particularly their teasing of his ceremonious issuing of the launch order.

    The B's crew includes a human Tuvok, Aaron from 24 and Vasquez the Irish Stepmom. Though it'd be nice if the B's Captain didn't seem quite so at a loss for making decisions- I mean, he had to have some command skill to get the Captaincy of the new Enterprise, right? Sequence also introduces Guinan, which is a nice setup for her appearing shortly in TNG. An interesting "end" for Kirk, though it feels like a Scotty death to me. But it is a heroic end, and he did save the Enterprise. Combined with Scotty's later reappearance in the TNG era and the remainder of Generations and all of First Contact, this moment sets up a great premise for the novel Engines of Destiny, which probably should have been the basis for Star Trek 9 (haven't yet read the book proper yet, though, but the idea is solid enough). But we'll get to that a wee bit down the road.

    [link=]Teaser Trailer[/link] (Beginning Trek's great line of logo-centric teaser trailers- not to mention the notable use of footage of the Bozeman)
    [link=]Theatrical Trailer[/link]

    [image=] [image=] [image=]
    Star Trek (VII): Generations
    The El-Aurian scientist Dr. Tolian Soran is seeking 'paradise' in the form of an energy realm called 'the Nexus', and destroying entire civilizations in the process. Captain Jean-Luc Picard and the Enterprise-D are the only ship and crew in range ? or even aware ? of Soran's mad quest for immortality, but even the crew of the Federation's most highly-regarded starship may not be enough.

    They need help, and they find it in the most unlikely of places, from one of the most decorated captains in Starfleet history.

    T2Q Comments: I know it's partially just the render, but looking at the Enterprise-B used in the DVD menu, that secondary hull is just UGLY- it''s that accordian neck in partic
  18. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    Believe it or not, this was only the first time that Malcolm McDowell proved that he was no Ricardo Montalban...
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
  20. Champion of the Force Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    I'm guessing Four_Dot is referring to McDowell's turn in the remade 'Fantasy Island' series (playing Montalban's original part).

    I found Generations to be ok - the setup is intriguing but I agree with T2Q that's it's the 3rd act that seems to unravel the film somewhat. As a further mention it should be pointed out that the missile that destroys the Veridian sun is probably the fastest object in the universe considering how quickly it took to reach there. :p

    Regarding the Holodeck sequence, I always loved it thanks to the clever little rhyme MAD Magazine did of the sequence (as part of a longer poem about the film in general):

    With Kirk somewhere in Neverland, across the years we zip. What's this - Picard's the captain of an old time sailing ship?
    This costly scene does nothing for the storyline, but shucks. With mobs of paying Trekkies, what's an extra million bucks?

  21. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Ironically, that was apparently a generally cost-saving approach- it was filmed aboard an existing ship in a marina in LA (same ship was used at the Interceptor in the POTC movies).
  22. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    For me, Generations is the best of ALL 11 ST films. There. I said it.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    [image=] [image=] [image=]
    VOY 110: Prime Factors
    -Premise: The crew of Voyager discover a planet that has the technology to send them more than halfway along their journey home. However, the planet's inhabitants are more than reluctant to share this technology with Voyager's crew, as doing so would violate one of the society's own prime directives.

    -T2Q Comments: Though I understand it's probably Federation policy- should they really be concerning themselves with distress calls out here? Ok, at least it was relatively close by, gotta love that shirt. Again, a total human-looking species in the Delta quadrant, and shouldn't they be kinda annoyed at them using a distress signal like that?

    "Maximize effeciency"? you know what would also increase efficiency? Not stopping for a vacation after only a couple months journey.

    For a location that we just saw dawn light hit seconds earlier, those suns are hella high in the sky.

    Return Home Possibility #3. heh, ok, it's kinda worth the camp so far just to have Starfleet officers smacked down by someone else's equivalent of the Prime Directive.

    Why are they jumping to the conclusion of "we'll have to bargain for the tech"? Why not ask "oh, if you can't give us the tech, for fear of us misusing it, can at least YOU use your tech to send us on our way?". ok, granted, she did, but they certainly beat around the bush.

    Everything Sesca is saying makes perfect sense, but she delivers it kinda slimy to make it seem worse than it is. Cool moment with Tuvok revealing hes onboard with the plan already.

    ok, they don't have to test it that very minute- they could either, A) search for another planet with that type of core to use as an amplifier or B) if thy decide to use it and can find no other options, they can jump back to this planet and use it later. So, that kinda harms the situation by making them look stupid.

    Still, this one actually came together pretty well- at first it looked awful, but the dilemma presented was an interesting examination of Federation principles, and the end scene with Janeway, Tuvok and Torres is top-notch.

    Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: Tim Russ provided input that resulted in about 30% of the script being rewritten in regards to Tuvok's actions and Janeway's reaction to it. The Sikarian ship was a recreation of a ship featured in the Starfleet Academy and Klingon Academy PC games. The Sikarians themselves were originally going to be the 3rd recurring antagonistic race in the series (after the Kazon and Vidians), but the producers were unsatisfied with them (from their Roddenberry hedonistic-looking society, to believing it was a mistake to cast a french actor as an alien villain) and abandoned that notion.

    VOY 111: State of Flux
    -Premise: An unknown Voyager crew member secretly sends information to the Kazon.

    -T2Q Comments: A pity the return of the Water Klingons doesn't fill the viewer with the sense of forboding or dread it supposedly does to the characters.

    Woah- Sesca/Chakotay? Didn't remember that. Neelix continues to be annoying in his schtick.

    One thing the show continues to have going in it's favor is the previously mentioned sense of these crew members actually having learned from the crazy crap that we've seen on the shows before it- and they USUALLY will react in a competent manner and at least address something that's obvious as soon as it is obvious (such as Sesca's suspect nature in this scenario)...I just fear it's not something they'll be able to sustain the longer the show progresses.

    Torres doesn't exaggerate her estimates, huh? Scotty would be pissed!

  24. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 7
    Really? To me Generations feels like an extended episode, an admitedly good episode, but still an episode.
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    One other bit of trivia I forget to mention for Heroes and Demons: Marjorie Monaghan, who played Freya, was also considered for the role of T'Pol on Enterprise.