main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before- VOY: Drive, Repression & Imperfection

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Jun 25, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 601: A Time to Stand
    -Premise: With the Dominion on track to winning the war against the Federation, Sisko and his crew take a captured Jem'Hadar ship into enemy territory with a mission to cut-off the Jem'Hadar's supply of ketracel-white in the Alpha Quadrant

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: I like how the recap is pretty much every FX shot from the battle in the last episode. A very overt "Oh, did you not see this? Yeah, you've been missing out. Now sit down."

    3 months of battles. Oof, a lot of those heavy fighters acting as tugs there... I suppose I was a bit overconfident at the end of last season? ;)

    "You're not genetically engineered- you're a Vulcan."

    Kinda curious how Starfleet could be losing so badly, given their numbers. DS9 took down 50 Dominion/Cardassian ships alone, and there have been no Gamma Quadrant reinforcements for them. They're tough, but surely even a war of attrition would have had an effect by now?

    Combs is absolutely glorious in this role, isn't he?
    "I'm sure, in time, we'll be able to resolve all these minor problems to our mutual satisfaction."
    "I'll remember you said that."
    "I'm SURE you will, heh..."

    Hmm I wonder if Dukat is hoping the Dominon will allow the Cardassians to win the war against the Federation but then count on he lack of ketrical white offing the Jem'Hadar, leaving the Cardassians with the hardware and the wormhole still mined to keep out the rest of the Dominion?

    TNG-era uniforms still in use.

    "You know, there's just something I don't understand. You're always telling me that space is big, that it is an endless frontier, filled with infinite wonders."
    "It's true!"
    "Well, if that's the case, you would think that it would be more than enough room to allow people to leave each other alone!"
    "It just doesn't work that. It should. But it doesn't."

    Crew running a captured enemy ship, kinda evokes ST4. Dukat wore one of these? I guess its a head mounted version of that shoulder doo-hickey...

    Not bad for an unofficial "part 2"- to be continued! Advancing the Dominion War overtly for probably the first time, Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Originally, the Dominion War arc was to last 4 episodes at the start of this season, but Behr extended it to 5, then 6 episodes. There was great trepidation at the prospect of going semi-serialized, feeling it might be pushing the envelop too much (as a 6 episode arc had never been done before on Star Trek, and no one on the crew had worked on shows that could do that either).

    However, it was felt the nature of DS9 being a stationary setting that characters would return to begged for a more serialized format (ironic, then, that the major 6-part arc that begun this discussion kicked off with the main characters having to actually leave the station...). The 6-part arc here would lead to the 10-part arc at the series's conclusion.

    All 6 episodes were worked on at the same time in the writing process- requiring an unheard amount of collaboration between the different writers as a change in one script would often have a domino effect on the sibsequent ones (Moore: "The fact is, the show isn't geared to work like that."

    The opening shot of this episode was one of the last mass vessel scenes composed entirely of studio models (with exception of the CGI Defiant). It included several new ships kitbashed together. There was acut ine somewhere in the episode that indicated that the captured Jem'Hadar ship was transmitting a newly updated recgognition signal and, thus, was not approched by other Dominion ships.

    The teaser to this episode, at just over 7 minutes, is one of the longest in all of Star Trek. Dukat's "Permanent documentation file" is the first, and only, time in Star Trek that a log is kept by an antagonist (not counting Mirror Universe).



    VOY 405: Revulsion
    -Premise: The Doctor meets another sentient hologram, and tries to help the troubled program with his problems.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: It's Serenity's bigger, greener brother. This guy looks like Data's makeup closeup.

    "I'm an HD 2:5 isomorphic projection" but I'm being edited on video so this is gonna be a real bitch to put out on Blu Ray in 20 years.

    Tuvok gets a promotion. Followup on the Tom/Torres scene in Day of Honor. The whole back and forth between conversations mess hall scene is neat- we don't usually get to have so many subplots worked into the same scene like that

    "Ensign Kim, you seem.. apprehensive."
    "No- not at all."
    "The last time we worked together I struck you at the base of your skull and attempted to contact the Collective."
    "These things happen."

    I'm wondering if this scene was meant to test the waters for a Harry/Seven relationship. 'We'll take our least interesting character and pair him with our most recent, likely very interesting character and they'll average out.'

    The WTF Is Inside Me guy is effectively creepy as the unstable hologram. Meanwhile Harry is effectively annoying as the overreacting ensign with a Borg crush. It's odd that Paris is being so cautious about Seven in this episode after being more welcoming to her in a previous episode (where they almost implied a potential romantic thread).

    The Doctor/hologram plotline has been a nice thowback to the horror elements from the first season, but damn, Harry hitting on Seven is bad, but her direct response is amusing. However, c'mon- Harry is gonna turn that down? Kirk wouldn't have even waited for her to become human again before hitting that.

    "This could get tedious."

    I'm willing to overlook the weaker Kim subplot in favor of the main hologram plotline- Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: Originally intended to be after The Raven but was produced and aired prior to it. Working title of Delerium. Leland Orser was about to go to London to shoot Saving Private Ryan, so he had a very limited availability of 4 days, which the crew said they could get it done in. Orser was pleased with the character and episode, as was Robert Picardo. Upon Orser arriving in his London hotel the day following the conclusion of his Voyager shoot, the first thing he saw on the TV as he turned it on was Robert Picardo in an episode of Voyager;

    Garrett Wang: "If you think about it, you're reading through the script and you're looking at it. It says, 'Kim invites Seven to the mess hall, under the guise of doing work. But, in reality, he's trying to put his moves on her.' And as an actor, I'm like, 'Hey! This is great! You know? And I'm having a scene with the babe of the show, you know? Okay.' And the immortal words come about: 'Seven of Nine says to Ensign Kim, "Do you wish to copulate?"' And at that point, I like... I'm flipping through. 'Does he-does he-does he change his mind?' No. 'It doesn't even happen?!'" Grinning broadly, Wang continued, "And I just threw the script on the wall! I'm like, 'This is ridiculous!' [....] So, that was a sad day."").

    After the fact, it was felt that it was too early in Seven's development for her to crack a joke as she does here.



    DS9 602: Rocks and Shoals
    -Premise: Sisko's crew crash-land their Jem'Hadar ship into the waters of an alien ocean on a world where a group of Jem'Hadar have also crash-landed with only one vial of ketracel-white remaining. Meanwhile, on Terok Nor, Kira finds she cannot live with herself working side by side with the Dominion.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Garrak! huzzah! Huh, the final shot before the opening credits is very similar to one of the key shots used in the Into Darkness trailers. Throwback reference to Terok Nor- though the way it's phrased here, you don't need to have seen the episode.

    "What is it?"
    "I'm not sure."
    (Jem'Hadar decloak)
    "Now I'm sure."

    The episode has done a very good job of developing it's Jem'Hadar characters here.

    "It needs repair but I'm willing to bet that you brought one of those famed Starfleet engineers who can turn rocks into replicators."

    Garrack's forehead piece looks discolored from the rest of his makeup. Kira's storyline subplot is particularly good. One of the better Kira moments. Strong ending and does a good job of making this Vorta distinct from the others but probably even more dispiciable. Definitely Essential.

    [​IMG]

    Trivia: Even though this was part 2 of the 6 episode arc, it was the 3rd filmed due to the location shooting, which complicated things considerably when the station storyline in part 3 changed while they were filming this episode, which meant the station based story in this episode had to be altered to reflect that.

    Inspired by the Fank Sinatra film None But the Brave. "Rocks and Shoals" was the informal name of the Articles for the Government of the United States Navy, later replaced by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The beginning of the episode is a reference to the beginning of the original Planet of the Apes movie.

    All the shots of the ocean and shoreline were created digitally for this episode. The location shoot for the episode topped the temperatures reached during the filming of The Ship (124F) at 128F. The hottest period in that part of the country in over 10 years. It was so hot that makeup was melting on camera and the rubber soles of hiking boots melted. The eyes of the Jem'Hadar are very red from makeup dripping into the actors' eyes from their forehead. Dax was injured in this episode because of Terry Farrell's skin condition that prevents her from being exposed to direct sunlight.

    The original final scene to this episode was never filmed due to the extreme heat conditions and falling behind on the shooting shcedule. It would have involved Worf and the Rotarran rescuing the Starfleet officers, beaming down as they buried Gordon and the Jem'Hadar. Worf sees the graves and says to Sisko "You were outnumbered. It must have been glorious." Though the writers and producers were very unhappy, director Michael Vejar and editor Steve Tucker realized they no longer needed the scene and showed the new somber ending with the closeup of Sisko, which the producers loved.




    VOY 406: The Raven
    -Premise: Seven of Nine experiences hallucinations, and believes that she is being called back to the Borg Collective.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "I think the nose could be a little stronger." Have you looked at the nose? There's a Game of Thrones joke to be made here. Don't climb walls, Seven- it won't turn out good.

    Representatives of the "B'omarr"? Please say they are brains in spiderdroids so that they and the Breen can have a Tatooine reunion one day.

    Curious that so much, such as shields, is done by the nanoprobes and not external gear. Bumper shuttles should be a game, ha. Seven does the neckpinch- always thought there was more than just a physicality that to though. I like the subtle consistency of Delta Quadrant species (like Talaxians) having a lower number than Alpha Quadrant species (like Vulcans).

    Someone needs to start a company that supplies debris props that actually look like they have some weight to them so actors don't look like they're flinging cardboard, plastic and foam.

    Seems like they're kinda leaving the B'Omarr dangling after suggesting there might be something they were trying to hide/protect. Also, I think they left the smaller shuttle in orbit as Tom uses his to recover Seven and Tuvok and they take off as soon as they're aboard to avoid the B'Omarr ships.

    I really like how dark this end DaVinci room scene looks, particularly when Seven is walking down the stairs. It captures a real feeling of candlelight without totally losing the actress in the dark, covering her with just enough shadow- yet shadows that aren't hard.

    Continues Seven's development as far as backstory goes but, at least so far, not one that absolutely has to be seen. That said, it's still a good episode so I'll lean toward Potentially Essential.

    Trivia: Working title was "Resurrection" and involved aliens captured Seven and reactivating her Borg nanoprobes, sending her on a mad killing spree as the crew tries to stop her from blowing up the warp core- even crawling towards the core after Torres blows her legs off as Janeway tells her to stop and Seven pleads for her to "Please kill me.".

    The final script was inspired by Ciizen Kane's "Rosebud". Shortly after this epiosde, Bryan Fuller was employed full-time on the series as a writer. It was felt that Seven's facing of her humanity was too soon in the character's development, something that they pulled back from after this episode. As Neelix considers how to cook Seven's food, he concludes that steamed would be easier on her stomach than stir frying. He then proceeds to stir fry the food.

    Up next: DS9 603: Sons and Daughters, DS9 604: Behind the Lines, DS9 605: Favor the Bold & 606: Sacrifice of Angels.


    Voyager Resources:

    Shuttles: (Unknown Starting Value)
    -1 destroyed by Chakotay/Kazon in Initiations, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Kim in Non Sequitur, Drake.
    -1 destroyed by Paris in Partuition, unnamed.
    -1 dismantled by ex-Borg Raiders in Unity, unnamed.
    -1 lost to Kes's evolution in The Gift, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Chakotay in Nemesis, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by the Caatati in Day of Honor, Cochrane.
    -1 abandoned by Seven in The Raven, unnamed.

    Jedimarine
     
  2. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Leland Orser is simply excellent
     
    TX-20, CloneUncleOwen and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  3. KissMeImARebel

    KissMeImARebel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    O'Brien tearing his pants in Rocks and Shoals pretty much secured him as the Butt Monkey of DS9 for me.
     
  4. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Though this isn't one specifically, the fact that they've had a dedicated "O'Brien Must Suffer" episode in almost every season would support that notion.
     
  5. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Orser is always fairly awesome and I love the "Crazy hologram psycho" episode more than I reasonably should based entirely on his performance. Pairing him with Robert Picardo really helps since Picardo can have a workable rapport with just about anybody. He pops up in Enterprise at one point again too, not as much crazy but still awesome.
     
    halibut, The2ndQuest and Juliet316 like this.
  6. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    He's pretty much the same in any role. See Se7en and Alien Resurrection for proof
     
    BigAl6ft6 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, he's always entertaining and delivers something memorable.
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  8. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    I'm just glad I missed the review of the Voyager episode "Nemesis". Hands down the worst ever episode of Star Trek Voyager, and that includes Threshold.
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    That was in my last review post (it's 403/404). I didn't think it was good but it wasn't horrible- the stupid pig latin is really what killed it.
     
  10. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Nope. Any show which ends with "It didn't really happen" gets an automatic zero from me. Cheap awful lazy writing.

    The ONLY time that works is in DS9's Hard Times, but that tells you from the start that it didn't really happen. That's a part of the plot.

    But the denouement in Nemesis made me literally shout at the TV. Pathetic. Ridiculous. Awful. Dire. Insulting. Cop-Out.
     
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Year of Hell, The Visitor and especially All Good Things... reset button at the end and they're both pretty darn great.
     
  12. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think it's because I found the episode to have a weak start where it had to try and overcome the those shortcomings halfway through- and it started to make some progress there before the end. But any disappointment in the ending was overshadowed by those earlier problems that it didn't feel like a betrayal to viewer that Total Reset Button endings can be like.
     
  13. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 27, 2000
    None of those are in the same league as Nemesis. This was a one off show which created tension then deleted it. Stuff like The Visitor and All Good Things - you know it's going to be "reset". Neither of those are usages of the reset button. They explore alternative universes - perfectly acceptable.

    Nemesis was just lazy and awful.
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  14. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Two of the best TNG episodes were "reset button" stories: Tapestry and The Inner Light. The concept works great when done right.
     
  15. dp4m

    dp4m Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001

    My two favorites!
     
  16. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    *headtilt* I wouldn't call The Inner Light a 'reset button' story though. Picard isn't 'dreaming' events that never happened. He's reliving somebody else's memories, courtesy of a race that's by that time, long dead, hoping to impart a bit of themselves so they can be remembered. And those events he experienced in his mind do affect and change him on some level (this is why I love when the show would do Picard - centric episodes, even back in S1, because you know Picard, one way or another, wasn't necessarily going to be 'reset' and go back to the way he was before at the end).
     
    TX-20 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  17. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Except for Picard's adventures as Locutus; apart from 'Family,' it doesn't seem to have affected Picard's character at all, until he goes all Moby Dick on the Borg in First Contact.
     
  18. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    My memory of the Voyager episode Nemesis is a complete blank but I'm gonna go with bad reset button usage as being the main thing that it's problem that separates it from Year of Hell, Visitor and All Good Things which are technically "reset button" episodes too but they go more down the alternate universe path as opposed to simply wiping out the events of a lame episode.
     
  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Except for that time he was killed and reset to a previous state via a transporter clone that sticks around for the rest of the franchise.

    #notlettingitgo

    ;)
     
    Jedi Merkurian and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  20. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    For the most part Picard's character doesn't change, but his time as Locutus is brought up a few more times in the series, such as during The Drumhead when that crazy Admiral (well, saying crazy admiral in Star Trek is a bit redundant ;) ) asks how he sleeps at night and I think it affects him. The biggest change is probably during the Hugh episode, when Picard is all for using Hugh to deliver a virus to kill the Borg and won't really hear about any objections to the plan, as everybody else gets to know Hugh.

    Nemesis... um, I'm drawing a blank on what episode of Voyager that is. Not sure if that's because if that's because i never saw it, or it was that bad or forgettable or due to the TNG movie of the same name taking up more space in my memory. *checks earlier page and then the wiki* Hm, not sure I ever saw that episode, maybe, or maybe not, but it doesn't sound good, so don't care about watching it.

    I wouldn't call that one so much a reset episode, not like Visitor or All Good Things, as more like lazy quick solution at the end of the episode. Voyager fell back on that plot device very often, and Voyager was a very episodic show, with not that much changing over seven years (Harry Kim never being promoted for instance). At the end of a Voyager episode, there'd be a quick conversation about potential repercussions or ramifications from the episode, then its never brought up again for the most part. All Good Things doesn't really count as a reset since it was all Q's doing and Picard did grow from it (in theory at least). And Visitor... yeah, its so great there's no need to defend it really.

    I still think Course: Oblivion is probably still the most depressing, pointless and annoying reset Trek episode ever. That was stupid. Voyager's Nemesis episode was just another random forgettable episode.
     
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 603: Sons and Daughters
    -Premise: Alexander Rozhenko joins the crew of the Rotarran, much to the disappointment of Worf. On Terok Nor, Tora Ziyal returns to the station where Dukat intends to use her to get closer to Major Kira.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Keeping in mind the unfilmed ending to the last episode, you can see how it would have transitioned originally, not that I'm saying it'd be necessary, it's just interesting. Alexander returns.. quite a bit older for only being 3 years older. I think he's, what? 8 years old at this point? Looks way older.

    If these are Klingon freighters- why not equip them with cloaking devices instead of just relying on the Bird of Prey? Nitpickingly amusing that Worf says "We are not playing in holosuites now" when they would have only "played" in holoDECKS on the Enterprise.

    Gotta love Dukat's somewhat slimy opportunism with the dress.

    "All I ask is a chance to prove myself."
    "I just gave you one. And you failed."

    Although this story overall seems partially skippable as it stands alone (outside of the reintroduction of Alexander, whom I must assume will be staying on for future episodes), since it does bring back Alexander and ties in partially with this arc, not to mention just being very good on it's own, I'm going to go with Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Based on the John Ford movie Rio Grande. Behr admitted that they took liberties with Alexander's age (although it was countered by Bradley Thompson that it was never established how fast Klingon children grow) mostly due to practical issues regarding the restrictions of the hours that minors can film, which is made worse by the makeup time needed for Klingon actors, which would have prolonged the shoot. Additionally, having Alexander seem older would make Worf seem less harsh and abusive than he would if he were treating a younger looking character this way.

    A deleted scene was filmed but cut for time. Memory-Alpha's description:

    After Kira calls Dukat an interstellar despot, Dukat retorts that he prefers the term "tyrant". Dukat proposes to assign Damar to escort Ziyal to the opening of her exhibit. Kira points out that "He's a self-righteous sycophant who despises everything Bajoran," and notes that Damar sneers whenever he says "Bajoran". Dukat denies this just as Damar walks in, giving a report and sneering whenever Bajorans are mentioned. Kira can't help but laugh. Damar glares at Kira, but continues his report and leaves. Dukat then imitates Damar, causing Dukat and Kira to laugh together.

    Katogh is apparently the son of Ch'Pok, the Klingon advocate that attempted to extradite Worf in Rules of Engagement. 25 seconds of the ritual at the end were cut from the UK version of the episode where Alexander and Worf cut their hands to mix their blood with Martok's in the chalice. the edit was apparently over concerns of HIV transfer by encouraging teenage viewers to mimic the act. However, a similar scene in the next season with Martok and Gowrin would not be censored.



    DS9 604: Behind the Lines
    -Premise: When Kira's resistance cell learns that the Dominion will soon be bringing down the Federation's minefield, they plot to hinder the enemy's progress. But matters are complicated when the Female Changeling arrives on Terok Nor and pays Odo a visit. Meanwhile, Captain Sisko is relieved of command of the Defiant.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Kira and Nog having a fun game with the Cardassians and Jem'Hadar. You know, it just occurred to me- they should have changed the opening credits sequence to show Dominion and Cardassian ships around the station- it'd make the (presumed) return of the Federation later on a nicer moment when the normal credits are restored with Federation ships.

    Odo's attitude here seems a bit incongruitous with the last couple episodes. For a plotline that is basically based around not showing a mission or battle, I think Sisko's plot here is about the best you can do. Quark's drunken speech is a good moment for the character. Poor Rom.

    Well, that was a oddly disturbing conclusion. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Directed by Levar Burton. Moore felt that by time they finished shooting the previous episode, they had reached the point where they were getting really confused- Rene Echevarria in particular suffered, having to ask everyone what they were doing at that point in time- but they were glad that the difficult circumstances didn't affect the episode negatvely as such things usually do.

    Original title was "Life During Wartime". The episode's B-plot originally was based on the film The Dawn Patrol, involving a reluctant commander forced to send untrained troops into the field and the resulting moral turmoil it gave him. This was abanonded as it felt like it should be the A-story. So, they dropped that story and replaced it with one about Dax being given command of the Defiant and finding out she loves combat a bit too much and "becomes Patton". They found this story unsatisfactory and reworked it again into the current Sisko plotline.

    Odo's original lotline involved his need for order to consume him as a result of linking with the female Changeling and actively trying to end the resistence movement- arresting Rom himself. This is the first time we see the new Admiral uniforms. The restricted hatch Rom tries to access is labeled "A51", likely a nod to "Area 51".



    DS9 605: Favor the Bold
    -Premise: Tired of being on the losing end of the war, Captain Sisko convinces Starfleet Command to launch a fleet of starships to retake Deep Space 9. Meanwhile, time may be running out for Rom.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Not a lot to say so far, it's a pretty engrossing setup. I love the way the Vorta says "Gauds do not make mistakes.". Sisko's desire to make Bajor his home seems a bit odd- he's obviously spent some time there but it seems like they've caused him more irritation than anything else.

    Nog gets promoted.

    "Chief! I was just coming to see you- can you believe it? They made me an Ensign!"
    "I hadn't realized things were going so bad."
    "Scary, isn't it?"

    [​IMG]

    Well, isn't that just a thing of ****ing Fleet Junkie beauty?

    "Weak eyes. Good ears."

    "He can't help being neagtive- it's in his nature."
    "On the contrary- I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me to expect the worst."

    "There's an old saying: 'Fortune favors the bold'. Well, I guess we're about to find out."

    Part 1 of 2, given the stakes and how we are starting to pay off the previous episodes of this arc, Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: When the arc started out, it was 4 episodes but was changed to 5 after they started plotting everything out. Originally Favor the Bold would have been the last episode of the arc but as they were writing it, they had trouble fitting it all into a single episode, thus requiring them to split it into a 2-parter and expand things to a 6 episode arc.

    Sisko has the Yoruba mask seen in The Search Part I in his office. Originally intended to be based on The Guns of Navarone and involved a mission to destroy a ketacel-white facility. The mission was later relocated to A Time to Stand as rewrites on the arc progressed.



    DS9 606: Sacrifice of Angels
    -Premise: A large fleet of Federation ships head towards Deep Space 9 to stop the Dominion destroying the Wormhole minefield. A Dominion fleet meets them in battle, can the Defiant make it in time?

    (I'm amused that the URL link to the trailer for the "big battle" episode of the franchise ends with the letters "Cg")

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    -T2Q Comments: Having those fighters in front of the Defiant gives it a unique sense of scale we've rarely gotten from it before- one that makes it look large instead of small. Appropriate that a Fleet Junkie-centric episode would include someone declaring "It's a trap!".

    [​IMG]

    "Cruiser and Galaxy wings" please say that is an entire wing of Galaxies...yay, it is! it is! (I think). Galaxy combo assault! w00t w00t! Background Akira love! Miranda ganking!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Can the next Star Trek TV series just be "Dukat & Weyoun: The Lost Days"? They are so interesting to watch together.

    Hmm, figures luck would choose this episode, of all episodes, to crap out on me partway through the climax-it looks like I missed out on the end of Sisko trying to convince the prophets to intervene, which I asusme they do as the next scene I got was the Cardassians remarking on the fleet being gone and the Defiant back out of the wormhole. Had to read about what transpired there, unfortunately. [Subsequent to this original writing I was able to watch the missing scene.]

    Also, why wouldn't Sisko- or Starfleet in general, NOT try to collapse the wormhole like Sisko did in the simulation in The Search? I could see Bajor or Sisko protesting, but it came down to the celestial temple and thousands of Dominion ships, there's no way Starfleet doesn't go for it (and I highly doubt Sisko wouldn't do it himself). I mean, if you're going to include that in the long prelude to the Dominion War, you need to at least address that option- would it have been so difficult for Sisko to give the order to prepare to fire towards that end and THEN have the Prophets zap him to the nonlinear white room with black curtains?

    The return to DS9 isn't overwhelmingly triumphant but effective- the losses Garek and Dukat deal with do hit though, and the conclusion of the abseball symbolism bring the arc that began at last season's end to a proper conclusion... for now.

    So, yeah, I'll confess that after watching this episode I pretty much rewatch the battle scenes from this and a few of the Dukat/Weyoun scenes after every other Star Trek episode I watch (in fact, give me a few minutes...)

    ((HELL YEAH!))

    Ok, I'm back.

    Can you guess the verdict on this one? Definitely Essential! :D

    The success of this arc would lead the 10-episode arc at series end. This is the largest battle ever seen in Star Trek. It is also the first episode where CGI was used exclusively. The prophets description of "the game" for SIsko's life goes back to his metaphot of baseball for life in the pilot. Quark's contradictory orders to the Jem'Hadar may be an homage to a bank heist scene in Raising Arizona.

    A story document for this episode was distributed with a typo around Paramount, with the title being "Sacrifice of Angles", which Behr jokingly said he prefers. Dukat's strategy of opening a hole in their lines to draw the enemy in and envelop them is simialr to a stragey used by Hannibal and Bashir is the one that points out the trap- Alexander Siddig later played Hannibal in a made for TV movie. In Star Trek Online, the missing Dominion fleet is returned to the Alpha Quadrant 34 years after the end of the war, leading to the recapture of DS9.


    Up next: VOY 407: Scientific Method, VOY 408 & 409: Year of Hell, Parts I & II.


    The Babylon Project Log:

    -Space stations ending with a numerical designation that are of commerce ports in nature (prominently featuring a casino area), near a giant swirling blue vortex passageway (wormhole/jumpgate) used for travel and a location of advanced creation (prophet temple/Great Machine).
    -Hard-edged female second in command, pessimistic, sarcastic security chief. somewhat ethnic doctor.
    -Characters named Dukat/Dukhat
    -A spiritual race recently coming free of occupation by a more militaristic civilization, the conflict of which led the spiritual race to become more militant themselves.
    -Gambler conman (Quark/Londo) has somewhat fluctuating antagonistic friendship with hard-edged chief of security (Odo/Garabaldi).
    -Characters played by Julie Caitlin Brown have a long-standing grudge against a notorious murderer who has prolonged their life at the expense of others through scientific experimentation (Rao Vantika/Jha'dur "Deathwalker").
    -The term "Changeling" has significance in relation to early parts of both series (the B5 pilot "the Gathering" and DS9's "Vortex" & beyond), though applied to different elements (technology versus a species).
    -A main character slowly constructs a device (chrysalis/clock) piece of piece in their quarters while conversing with a subordinate .
    -A main character often referred to as Chief (Miles/Garibaldi) has a recurring assistant (Neela/garibaldi's Aide) who is a plant by another faction that attempts to bring about political change by assassinating a prominent rival leader (Bariel/Santiago) in the first season finale so that one of their faction may replace him (Adami/Clark). Their plot is uncovered by the Chief character.
    -The Circle/Homeguard Bajoran for Bajorans, vandalism with a symbol; subdues and brands an alien on the middle of the forehead with their logo
    -Second Season opens with a command officer (Sinclair/Kira) being reassigned from the station to be among the religious order of a species heavily involved with the operation of the station, partly due to prophecy
    -A near-human alien race has their hair up in a fan-style to represent social status.
    -A character played by Julia Nickson (Catherine/Cassandra) romances (or attempts to romance) the commander of the station (Sinclair/Sisko).
    -Characters have discussion of higher and lower lifeforms awareness of each other to that of ants (Odo & Kira/G'Kar & Catherine Sakai).
    -3rd Season Premiere introduces a new prototype warship for use by the station's crew using technology from other races (Vorlon/Romulan), in response to the appearance of a powerful new enemy race (Shadows/ Dominion)
    -Image of female commanding officer of station used (or attempted to be used) in an erotic hologram program against her knowledge/wishes.
    -Shady Political Organization develops it's own fleet of ships in secret without knowledge of the military (Obsidian Order/Psi Corps)
    -A redheaded female character named Leeta/Lyta becomes a recurring character on the show in 1995, played by somewhat similar looking actresses.
    -During a time travel story in the 3rd season, the Commander of the station becomes/takes on the identity of a key historical figure.
    -An alien brings (or is speculated to have brought) knowledge of the future to the past that is passed on by others as religious prophecy amongst a spiritual people.
    -A main character uncontrollably flashes forward in time and attempts to use those visions to change future events (Miles/Several)
    -The Doctor must, through strength of will, fight his way through a potentially fatal wound inflicted by a one-shot criminal, guided by vision(s) of a familiar face(s) representing a different facet of his mind. (Bashir/Franklin)
    -The opening title sequence involves people in spacesuits doing external repairs to the station to convey a sense of scale
    -Weapon systems of the station are upgraded for a coming battle
    -Weapon systems on the station of similar design emerge from hidden ports
    -The station, after harboring political/military refugees/fugitives, must defend itself in battle (both against ships and boarding parties) against former allies. Re-enforcements to the attacking forces are known to arrive just as allied re-enforcements do so, forcing the resolution to the battle to make the attacking forces standdown.
    -A warrior of alien traditions joins the main cast about midway through the series.
    -A main character is involved in a "lesbian" relationship in an episode that aired in October 1995.
    -The main character (Sheridan/Sisko) serves under a high ranking Earth military officer played by Robert Foxworth (Hague/Leyton), who is attempting a coup against the Earth's government.
    -A guest character undergoes a mindwipe/death of personality. (chronological viewing also results in this episode being back to back with the VOY episode that features Brad Douriff, who plays the guest character on B5)
    -Labor disputes attempted to be resolved "by any means necessary" via enforcers.
    -A main alien character becomes more human through a drastic physical change.
    -The main enemy of the series (Shadows/Dominion) attempt to destabilize opposing forces by inciting war between factions by controlling/manipulating/allying with the rulers of one (or both) sides.
    -The advanced alien race worshipped as holy figures have a cast-off (or opposing) faction/race villified by the same races (Vorlons/Shadows; Minbari, Narns, etc).
    -A character has a vision of being on a planet and looking up to see enemy forces blot out the sun (Londo/Sisko)
    -The station Captain has fragmented visions of events to come. (Sheridan/Sisko)
    -A character initiates an area spread of a attack with a weapon to reveal and kill two cloaked enemies they only suspected were there.
    -The characters visit a derelict sister station. (B4/Empok Nor)
    -After being launched in full swing at the end of a season, the major conflict against the powerful race that the series has been building up to achieves a significant resolution in the 6th episode of the following season, involving the main character seeking the intervention of higher beings. This sequence of events also involves a debate on an astral plane of existence where higher beings take the rapdily shifting form of the main character's allies. (Sheridan/Sisko, Shadows/Vorlons/Dominion, First Ones/Prophets)



    Jedimarine
     
    Nobody145, Sarge, Darth_Omega and 2 others like this.
  22. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    That DS9 fleet shots are so goddamned good they keep reusing in a few times later in the series. But they're really purty! (Still, once you notice it, gets a tad obvious)

    Year of Hell Voyager up next for The2ndQuest, is easily in my top 3 Voyager episodes and probably in my top 15 Trek's ever. I just downright love it. A lot has to do with Kurtwood Smith being fairly good at Deep Brooding, which really works well for the tone of the episode / antagonist. And Kurtwood Smith still actually mentions that Voyager guest spot as one of his favourite roles!
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  23. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Sacrifice of Angels has the best fleet battle I've ever seen, big or small screen.
     
    TX-20, Nobody145 and Juliet316 like this.
  24. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Fantastic arc with a fantastic end for that period of DS9.
     
    TX-20 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  25. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I think some technical limitations that wouldn't be as present today hampered it a bit. For example, TNG demonstrated that the Galaxy-class has a ton of weapons, but we rarely, if ever, see the Galaxy ships in DS9 really unload on their opponents the way the Enterprise-D sometimes did (in "Best of Both Worlds" in particular). Another thing is all the ancient ship classes don't really make sense; the only reason they're there is because the models already existed and the budget to make new ones wasn't there. There's also no reason for the ships to be packed so tightly together, but that's a common thing in sci-fi. :p

    Yeah, it's still one of the best space battles on screen. Of the ones I've seen outside of Trek I think only the Battle of Endor and reimagined BSG approach it.