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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before- VOY: Drive, Repression & Imperfection

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Jun 25, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, I really like Ezri but they either should have done the switch before Season 6 (so we'd get a couple seasons of Ezri), in this episode (her later demise kinda undermines her rescue here) or not at all.
     
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  2. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    Maybe, although the way it happened in the TV show made it a little truer to real life; not everyone gets a chance to die a hero.

    I liked the Ezri Dax character, too. Although she only got one season, she did appear in every episode and had several that she was the star of. So, I think it worked out in the end.
     
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  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Orbit the Earth Week:


    It's How You Play the Killing Game:

    VOY 418: The Killing Game, Part I
    -Premise: In an attempt to find new ways to satisfy their predatory instincts, the Hirogen alter the memories of the Voyager crew and force them into violent holodeck simulations, partially re-creating World War II.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Klingon Janeway... kinda falls into my previous comments about species-changing cast members. Seven singing real or not, I wonder?. Nazi Hirogen, heh- do they have a Fan Collectives DVD set of Nazi episodes? I think they could at this point- TOS Patterns of Force, the ENT 2-parter, this VOY 2-parter... you could get at least a disc out of that, maybe add in the Mirror Universe episodes or some other historical episodes that aren't overtly time travel centric and viola!

    I wonder if the beverages being consumed (such as the wine Janeway is supposedly giving to the Hirogen) is actually replicated? If so, these simulations the Hirogen are running are really going to kick into the replicator rations wastefully. That might be the biggest bitch about this- even if they throw off the invaders, their resources should nonethless be significantly depleted- though I doubt they're actually going to pursue that angle here. They're able to use the concept to incorporate Torres's pregnancy.

    "1 crew member killed in the last 12 hours."

    The holodeck explosion ripping open the walls is an interesting effect- it's always a little vague as to how big these things are, and i would imagine the treadmill effect could only compensate for so much... it's always like punching a hole through the TARDIS or something. Expensive looking kaboom. Holographic soldiers breaking out into the actual ship- it's almost like a Star Trek March of the Wooden Soldiers to a degree.

    Also, Moriarty would be PISSED.

    Starting to pay off the Hirogen arc thats been setup over the past few episodes. Deiinitely Essential.

    Trivia: Original idea for the episode was by Joe Menosky, who was inspired by TV footage of WW2 that was prevalent in Europe during a trip there. The original arena style concept didn't have specifics yet but once the Hirogen were introduced, they brought the concept back up.

    The original script had an in-joke where Janeway's holodeck persona was named Genevive- likely a reference to original Janeway actress Genevieve Bujold. This was changed to Katrine for the final version, however. Ethan Phillips had to endure the heat of not only his usual makeup but also the Klingon makeup placed over it. Jeri Ryan did do her own singing for this episode.

    At this point in the series, Braga and Monosky were not that interested in Harry Kim's character, which is why they "stuck his ass on the bridge". However, they found the depiction of Kim in this episode to be really interesting. The depiction of Kim here would go on to influence the depiction of Kim in "Timeless".

    David Livingston compared Janeway's Katrine character to Humphrey Bogart. The Hirogen-decorated ready room uses almost the entire stock of prop weapons to line the walls. The building explosion was one of, if not the, biggest effect shot done on a Trek TV show- involving a 7 foot replica of the building, 3 high speed cameras and various actors diving for cover. The holodeck breach was modeled entirely in CGI. T

    his aired back to back with Part II on it's original airing. It was originally intended to air on separate nights, then as a single feature-length episode, but ultimately aired as two single episodes back to back- something that had never been done on Trek before. The success of airing it this way would influence later two parters.

    Dawn of a New D-Day:

    VOY 419: The Killing Game, Part II
    -Premise: With half the Voyager crew trapped in a deadly simulation staged by the Hirogen, Captain Janeway must find a way to retake the ship..

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments:
    "Nazi?"
    "Totalitarian fanatics bent on world domination. The Borg of their day- no offense."
    "None taken."

    Amusing joke, but is it really an apt comparison? The Nazis were not exactly big on integrating other cultures, heh.

    A thought that just occured to me- they went through the trouble of making Neelix Klingon and Janeway Klingon and Torres pregnant... yet they didn't make Torres human (or, earlier, Neelix human)- would have been more consistent if none of the characters changed species makeup and the holographic characters just treated them as the species role they were playing- it would also have avoided the species swap issue.

    "Kapla!"
    "Kapla!"
    "Talley ho."

    Janeway offers holodeck technology in exchange for a cease fire... isn't giving away Federation tech a big Prime Directive no-no? Like, they totally endured the Kazon because of it and turned down the means to go home at least once because of it?

    "These weapons are pretty crude, they're not much help." Oh, as opposed to the civil war rifles you had to use in the Q continuum?

    You know, if they had edited the Harry-initiates-the-overload countdown scene when Janeway first asks him to, it might have been almost real-time instead of compressed. Neelix and the Doctor giving orders from underneath the canopy to troops charging out into the rain is so odd- particularly because they clearly went through the whole "it has started to rain" shift for seemingly the sole purpose of setting up that brief visual joke.

    Wait, they overload the emitters but Neelix stays Klingon (Janeway didn't when they brought her out of the Klingon simulation at the start of Part I), Torres stays pregnant and France stays active.

    Generally solid conclusion- can't really go wrong with killing Nazis (sorry, Dr. Erskine). Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: J Paul Boehmer, who plays the Nazi Kapitan in this episode, went on to play another Nazi in the ENT two-parter. So many Klingon uniforms were needed for this episode that they used a mix of the common TNG ones and the rarer ones from ST6. Torres says they stole their weapons from the Germans but all of their weapons are American.

    Turns out the rain was actually real and something they worked into the script to accommodate having to shoot outside in it- Picardo's gag was something he just did on the set, not expecting it to make it into the episode. Jeri Ryan broke down during the filming in the rain following the stress of Voyager's shooting schedule providing only 4 hours of sleep a night and a string of resulting illnesses ( "It all came to a head during an exterior night shoot when El Nino moved in, and it started to rain on us – pouring rain – and I completely broke down," Ryan stated. "I couldn't function. I just sat down for a long time crying and trying to figure out if being on the show was worth it, because at that point it didn't seem like it was [....] Anybody would buckle under those circumstances." ).

    Voyager Resources:

    Crew: (152 People, as of The 37's)
    -Death Wish: Quinn/Q2 joins the crew (153 remain), then commits suicide. (152 remain)
    -Alliances: Kurt Bandera, dead. (151 remain)
    -Meld: Darwin, dead. (150 remain)
    -Investigations: Michael Jonas, dead. (149 remain)
    -Deadlock: Wildman baby born. (150 remain)
    -Innocence: Ensign Bennet, dead. (149 remain)
    -Basics, Part I: Bridge crewmember shot, presumed dead (148 remain)
    -Basics, Part II: Hogan, Suder & blue uniform crewmember, dead (145 remain)
    -Warlord: Martin, dead. (144 remain)
    -Unity: Ensign Marie Kaplan, dead. (143 remain)
    -Distant Origin: Five unknown people added to crew, as crew stated to be 148
    -Scorpion, part II: Svene of Nine joins the crew (149 remain)
    -Scientific Method: Ensign Roberta Luke, dead. (148 remain)
    -(Ashes to Ashes & Imperfection; between Hunters & Prey): Lynsay Ballard, dead (147 remain)*
    -The Killing Game, Part I: Unidentified crew member, dead. (146 remain)


    Up Next: DS9 617: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night, DS9 618: Inquisition, VOY 420: Vis a Vis & DS9 619: In the Pale Moonlight.
     
  4. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Big fan of Killing Game, it really does what Voyager did best was wild, high-concept sci-fi ideas and it nicely twists around the "holodeck tried to kill us again" TNG-era trope into something that the baddies are effectively, intentionally causing. Also it has Klingons vs Nazis, which is one of my favourite things in the series ever.
     
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  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 617: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night
    -Premise: On a mission to recover a Federation informant on the Dominion world of Soukara, Dax is injured and Worf must choose between completing the mission or saving his wife. Meanwhile, O'Brien enlists Bashir's help to defeat Quark in a game of Tongo.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Dukat returns- this teaser centering around the sudden reversal of Kira's (and, by extension, our) perception of her mother would have been more effective if she hadn't seemingly been essentially introduced moments earlier in the same episode. Still, it's kinda funny that Dukat would call Kira up in the middle of the night just to drop a "Ha ha- I banged your mom!" line.

    Orb of Time- I would have thought I'd remember that but I don't. Looking it up, it was used in Trials & Tribble-ations. Still, it seems like something that would have gotten more use or mention- 'Oh, and btw- we have a time machine in one of our temples'.

    Jumping back to the shots of Terok Nor in orbit over Bajor throws you off after being adjusted to it not being there for such long stretches of viewing. Younger Dukat. Another interesting question- how long has Dukat been at his job here? From Waltz we're led to believe that much of what made Dukat the dictator that Kira knew and fought against was the continual resistance against his rule feeding against his delusions of being loved by those he ruled. However, if his rule has only been short so far at this point in the timeline with little active resistence to start scarring his pride and psyche, could it be possible this Dukat is not yet that Cardassian?

    So, interesting episode, though the inciting call by Dukat ultimately seems random- one almost expects an epilogue of sorts dealing with memories from those events or something that tied into that. The setup for the Battle of the Alamo will apparently become important. Good Episode But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: The original idea for this episode centered around the ghosts of children who were victims of experimentation during the occupation by a Cardassian doctor inspired by Josef Mengele, only for it to be revealed that the ghosts were the result of the doctor sending childrem into the future to gather information for the Obsidian Order. The final version of the story emerged out of Behr not being entirely happy with how the Dukat/Kira relationship had been resolved in Sacrifice of Angels, so they took it as an opportunity to explore that more while doing another episode about the occupation in a new way.

    The episode originally didn't end with the moral ambiguity it has, but rather Kira actually forgiving her mother. The title comes from a quote from the 1820 lyrical drama Prometheus Unbound. Federation LCARS panels are visible behind Duket during his transmission to Kira, which indicates he is still using the shuttle he stole in Waltz. The bomb planted by Kira could be the one Dukat refers to in Waltz.


    DS9 618: Inquisition
    -Premise: An officer from Starfleet Department of Internal Affairs arrives at the station and accuses Dr. Bashir of being a Dominion spy.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Maybe it's just the first time I'm noticing this but the sleeveless uniform style when combined with the red command color reminds one of the initial Crusade uniforms.

    William Sadler aka The Grim Reaper! Excellent! (air guitar) aka President Ellis.

    So what I'm taking away from the first 20 minutes is that SF IA (or, at least this particular group) is either full of jerks, hyper-competent, incompetent or all of the above. They point out the unbelievable nature of the Dominion leaving a Runabout in orbit over a prison camp for them to escape in, yet also seem to jump whole-heartedly into the most extreme conclusion regarding how Bashir could be a spy while Julian himself doesn't point out the obvious flaw in that theory of why would the Dominion choose the one officer that would blow the Changeling Bashir's cover?

    Wait, they took Bashir's combadge earlier- how does he still have it when he's talking to Weyoun?

    Voyager-style holodeck. Section 31 introduced.

    Well, that actually ended up addressing most of the issues i raised- thought it seems like the whole episode was an excuse for the last few minutes (though to ask that question it seems to have the biggest impact on the overall philosphy of Star Trek/Roddenberry's vision), the payoff to Bashir's obsession with spies both real (Garek) and fictional (Bond clone) is actually quite an awesome concept. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Directed by Michael Dorn. Original version of this story was a comedic episode of genetically-engineered Bashir having to deal with the ultimate bureaucratic red tape of a parking ticket on his runabout he received after saving a planet. Bashir comments to Sloan that he wouldn't care to repeat the experience of being taken prisoner on the way to attending a medical conference- which Sloan has basically done here.

    What's Gotten Into Janeway?


    Something Venomous:

    VOY 420: Vis a Vis
    -Premise: A genome thief switches physical forms with Tom Paris.
    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Paris working on a car for fun- how long ago were they claiming not to know how a car started?

    [​IMG]

    I wonder how this warp drive is different than their usual warp drive tech? Don't both technically fold space? This new medium profile shot of Voyager looks rather good. Tom being a stressed out jerk to people doesn't come across very naturally- it feels out of nowhere for the plot.

    "I had no idea that my superior abilities were affecting your psyche so strongly."

    Fake Tom (not to be confused with Not-Tom-Paris from TNG: The First Duty ;)) is a bit cheesy but manages to slime through the situations somewhat believably. The Talented Mr. Ripley-esque.

    Tom in wrong body probably could have convinced Chakotay of who he was much faster had he given a more concrete piece of evidence like a code or more specific memory. TOS had that same problem with it's "final" episode.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So, not a particularly awful episode but the subjects it gets more in depth with are only so-so while the more interesting elements don't go into enough depth (there could have been a lot more done with the body switching- I mean, I'm not expecting something on the level of Farscape but it provides the opportunity for the cast members to try and portray one another [hopefully without too much parody] and the premise here also would allow the unique opportunity for the guest actors to portray more of the main cast as well). Average.

    Trivia: The title of the episode translates from French to "face to face", it was originally titled "Perspectives". The episode was supposed to be a vague homage to Face/Off.

    Jeri Ryan found she had difficulty not accidentally looking at Steth's upper nostrils while addressing him. Composer Dennis McCarthy used to be a member of backing band of Dick Dale, whom the 60's style songs used in this episode were by- a coincidence as Moore's decision to use a Dick Dale song came first. McCarthy then gave suggestions for the second song that closes the episode out.

    The design for coaxial jump effects were inspired by origami- with the energy forming the outer shape as the interior folded and unfolded. While the designs of the larger ships used by Daelen and the Benthan patrol would not be reusued the design of Steth's ship would reappear in several other Voyager episodes as well as an episode of Firefly.
     
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  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 619: In the Pale Moonlight
    -Premise: At the end of his frustration over the losses the Federation is taking in the Dominion War, Sisko enlists Garak's help to persuade the Romulans to join the Federation against the Dominion. Sisko soon learns that, to save the Federation, he may have to abandon the values it stands for.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: For once we have someone needing to remember the stardate. It's nice to know that it's a little tricky even for the perfect humans of the future. Having Sisko directly address the camera feels like a throwback to that Worf court martial/rules of engagement episode.

    "I was going to bring the Romulans into the war". That's one of the better teaser setups of the franchise.

    Garrek! Huzzah! Dominion invades Betazed- not a target one would think of, which makes it a good choice to create the right kind of impact. In the turbolift, Garek's clothing evokes a gold TNG uniform. It's interesting that this episode has Sisko breaking the bounds of Federation morality immediately after the episode that introduces Section 31 where Sisko questions if the ends justify means that sacrifice Federation morality. More subdued Romulan uniforms- less shoulder pad. Romulan senator played by Night Owl.

    With only about 6-7 minutes left in the episode, it really is gripping. It's been extremely effective at making you start to agonize over how things will turn out- it really puts you in Sisko's shoes because you believe anything could happen- success and a Romulan alliance, failure and status quo, failure and reenforced Romulan opposition to joining the war, failure and the Romulans join the Dominion in active combat against the Federation, or something else entirely. It really could be anything and you kind of have to remind yourself to breathe and relieve that tightness in your chest.

    ...and then Sisko's narration goes and says the very thing I just typed, ha.



    And then the shuttle thing is reported and you can't help but go "oh, ****". I mean, damn, Garrak is one scary dude when you unleash him, isn't he? To summarize, Garrak just started a war on false pretenses between an empire that basically controls at least half of (if not significantly more than half of) the Beta Quadrant and an authoritarian military that controls the entire Gamma Quadrant and a significant foothold in the Alpha Quadrant. And he did it using the thinking of the Romulans, Dominion and Federation against themselves in order to do. He's good. He;s really good. So freaking Essential.

    Also, as of this original writing, this is the second story I've experienced in 24 hours (the other being Darth Vader and the Cry of Shadows) whose ending has the narration recording that is the existence of the story destroy itself . Another curious observation- Sisko would seem right at home with many habitually crazy/dangerous Starfleet Admirals-i know he doesn't have the rank, but given the size of the fleets he's commanded, he's pretty much there already. Maybe this retroactively gives us a glimpse into why these people end up as they do (even if it doesn't excuse all cases).

    Trivia: Often considered the darkest episode of Star Trek ever made. Working title of "Patriot". The episode's concept is inspired by multiple historical incidents that had far reaching ramifications- the Gulf of Tonkin Incident leading to the Vietnam War, the Watergate scandal and the ensuing political espionage uncovered, etc.

    The first version of this story was comparable to All the President's Men and centered around Jake "watergating" Shakaar with information that would threaten his government and throw Bajor into chaos. A subsequent version shifted Jake's target to his father- with Jake discovering Sisko and Garak's efforts to bring the Romulans into the war after failing to convince Garak to let him interview him. The father/son conflict was ultimately jettisoned as they didn't feel the conflict would be believable given how strong their relationship had been established as.

    The final episode title is a reference to the Joker's phrase from Batman 1989: "Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"

    Originally the Dominion was to capture Vulcan, but it was switched to Betazed as they felt Vulcan "carried too much weight" (as JJ would later exploit...) but still wanted a planet that would carry impact for the viewers. The last line of the episode is inspired by a line from the John Ford movie The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

    Two deleted scenes include one where Dax comes to Sisko suggesting they forge evidence to bring the Romulans into the war, unaware of Sisko's operation, and another after Sisko threatens Tolar in the holosuite. Garak suggets that Sisko enjoyed that "moment of pure brute force" after the intrigue and deception of the past week, to which Sisko replies "Mr Garak, why is it that no one has killed you yet?", to which Garak suggests "My innate charm?"

    The planet Senator Vreenak was on his way back from is the same planet Worf and Dax attempted to extract the Cardassian double agent from. The Romulan shuttle seen here is the first new Romulan ship seen since the scout ship used in TNG season 3's The Defector.

    It is intentional that Sisko slowly undresses troughout the show as he metaphorically bares his soul. According to Andrew Robinson, this episode is about Garak teaching Sisko that "you can't got to bed with the Devil without having sex.". A novel, TNG: The Battle of Betazed, covers the retaking of Betazed- the resistance is led by Mama Troi and the Betazoids eventually win utilizing invasive telepathic techniques. Mr Homn was killed by the Dominion.

    Up Next: VOY 421: The Omega Directive, DS9 620: His Way, VOY 422: Unforgettable & VOY 423: Living Witness.



    Time Travel Log:

    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 3.5 Billion Years Ago; Jean Luc-Picard & Q; from alternate-2370)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (2700 BC, Sarpedion Ice Age; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TOS: All Our Yesterdays (Undefined 17th Century-esque Sarpeidon; NCC-1701 crew; from 2268)
    -TNG: Time's Arrow, part I (1893; NCC-1701-D crew; from 2368)
    -TOS: The City on the Edge of Forever (1930: NCC-1701 crew; from 2267)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (1930; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Little Green Men (1947; Quark's Treasure crew; from 2372)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (1967; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (1967; Aeon; from 2373)
    -TOS: Assignment Earth (1968: NCC-1701; from 2268)
    -TOS: Tommorow is Yesterday (1969: NCC-1701; from 2267)
    -ST4: The Voyage Home (1986: The Bounty crew, formerly of NCC-1701; from 2286)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (1996; NCC-74656; from 2372)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part II (1996; Aeon; from 29th Century)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part I (2024; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (2024; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Part II (2048; NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2371)
    -ST8: First Contact (2063; NCC-1701-E & Borg Sphere; from 2373)
    -TOS: The Tholian Web (2154 (Mirror Universe): NCC-1764 Defiant; from 2268)
    -DS9: Children of Time (alternate 2173; NX-74205 Defiant; from 2373)
    -TOS: The Naked Time (2266: NCC-1701 goes back in time 3 days; from 2266)
    -DS9: Trials and Tribble-ations (2268: NX-74205 Defiant crew; from 2373)
    -DS9: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night (2349; Kira Nerys (via Orb of Time); from 2374)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 2364; Jean Luc-Picard; from alternate-2370)
    -TNG: Time Squared (2365: Picard goes 6 hours into the past; from 2365)
    -TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise (2366 (Standard & FKW Universes); NCC-1701-C goes forward through a temporal rift; from 2344)
    -TNG: Captain's Holiday (2366; Vorgons; from 27th Century, approx. 2666)
    -TNG: Future Imperfect (False-2383; Will Riker. NCC-1701-D; from 2367)
    -TNG: A Matter of Time (2368; Berlinghoff Rasmussen; from 22nd Century, using 26th Century technology)
    -TNG: Cause and Effect (2368; NCC-1701-D ends up 17 days in the future after timeloop; from 2368)
    -TNG: Time's Arrow, part II (2368; Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens; from 1893)
    -TNG: Firstborn (2370; Alexander; from 2410)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (2370; Jean Luc-Picard from alternate-2370)
    -VOY: Time and Again (2371; NCC-74656 crew go back in time 1 day; from alternate-2371)
    -DS9: Visionary (2371; Miles flashes forward in time between 3.5 & 5 hours six times; from 2371)
    -VOY: Before and After (2369; Kess (mentally) from alternate 2370)
    -VOY: Before and After (alternate 2370; Kess (mentally) from alternate 2371)
    -VOY: Before and After (alternate 2371; Kess (mentally) from 2373)
    -VOY: Eye of the Needle (2371; data and Romulan; from 2351)
    -ST7: Generations (2371; Picard and Kirk through the Nexus from 2371 & 2293)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (2373; Aeon; from Alternate 29th Century)
    -VOY: Before and After (2373; Kess (mentally) from alternate 2374)
    -VOY: Before and After (alternate 2374; Kess (mentally) from alternate 2378)
    -VOY: Before and After (alternate 2378; Kess (mentally) from alternate 2379)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 2395; Jean Luc-Picard & Q; from alternate-2370)


    The Babylon Project Log:

    -Space stations ending with a numerical designation that are of commerce ports in nature (prominently featuring a casino area), near a giant swirling blue vortex passageway (wormhole/jumpgate) used for travel and a location of advanced creation (prophet temple/Great Machine).
    -Hard-edged female second in command, pessimistic, sarcastic security chief. somewhat ethnic doctor.
    -Characters named Dukat/Dukhat
    -A spiritual race recently coming free of occupation by a more militaristic civilization, the conflict of which led the spiritual race to become more militant themselves.
    -Gambler conman (Quark/Londo) has somewhat fluctuating antagonistic friendship with hard-edged chief of security (Odo/Garabaldi).
    -Characters played by Julie Caitlin Brown have a long-standing grudge against a notorious murderer who has prolonged their life at the expense of others through scientific experimentation (Rao Vantika/Jha'dur "Deathwalker").
    -The term "Changeling" has significance in relation to early parts of both series (the B5 pilot "the Gathering" and DS9's "Vortex" & beyond), though applied to different elements (technology versus a species).
    -A main character slowly constructs a device (chrysalis/clock) piece of piece in their quarters while conversing with a subordinate .
    -A main character often referred to as Chief (Miles/Garibaldi) has a recurring assistant (Neela/garibaldi's Aide) who is a plant by another faction that attempts to bring about political change by assassinating a prominent rival leader (Bariel/Santiago) in the first season finale so that one of their faction may replace him (Adami/Clark). Their plot is uncovered by the Chief character.
    -The Circle/Homeguard Bajoran for Bajorans, vandalism with a symbol; subdues and brands an alien on the middle of the forehead with their logo
    -Second Season opens with a command officer (Sinclair/Kira) being reassigned from the station to be among the religious order of a species heavily involved with the operation of the station, partly due to prophecy
    -A near-human alien race has their hair up in a fan-style to represent social status.
    -A character played by Julia Nickson (Catherine/Cassandra) romances (or attempts to romance) the commander of the station (Sinclair/Sisko).
    -Characters have discussion of higher and lower lifeforms awareness of each other to that of ants (Odo & Kira/G'Kar & Catherine Sakai).
    -3rd Season Premiere introduces a new prototype warship for use by the station's crew using technology from other races (Vorlon/Romulan), in response to the appearance of a powerful new enemy race (Shadows/ Dominion)
    -Image of female commanding officer of station used (or attempted to be used) in an erotic hologram program against her knowledge/wishes.
    -Shady Political Organization develops it's own fleet of ships in secret without knowledge of the military (Obsidian Order/Psi Corps)
    -A redheaded female character named Leeta/Lyta becomes a recurring character on the show in 1995, played by somewhat similar looking actresses.
    -During a time travel story in the 3rd season, the Commander of the station becomes/takes on the identity of a key historical figure.
    -An alien brings (or is speculated to have brought) knowledge of the future to the past that is passed on by others as religious prophecy amongst a spiritual people.
    -A main character uncontrollably flashes forward in time and attempts to use those visions to change future events (Miles/Several)
    -The Doctor must, through strength of will, fight his way through a potentially fatal wound inflicted by a one-shot criminal, guided by vision(s) of a familiar face(s) representing a different facet of his mind. (Bashir/Franklin)
    -The opening title sequence involves people in spacesuits doing external repairs to the station to convey a sense of scale
    -Weapon systems of the station are upgraded for a coming battle
    -Weapon systems on the station of similar design emerge from hidden ports
    -The station, after harboring political/military refugees/fugitives, must defend itself in battle (both against ships and boarding parties) against former allies. Re-enforcements to the attacking forces are known to arrive just as allied re-enforcements do so, forcing the resolution to the battle to make the attacking forces standdown.
    -A warrior of alien traditions joins the main cast about midway through the series.
    -A main character is involved in a "lesbian" relationship in an episode that aired in October 1995.
    -The main character (Sheridan/Sisko) serves under a high ranking Earth military officer played by Robert Foxworth (Hague/Leyton), who is attempting a coup against the Earth's government.
    -A guest character undergoes a mindwipe/death of personality. (chronological viewing also results in this episode being back to back with the VOY episode that features Brad Douriff, who plays the guest character on B5)
    -Labor disputes attempted to be resolved "by any means necessary" via enforcers.
    -A main alien character becomes more human through a drastic physical change.
    -The main enemy of the series (Shadows/Dominion) attempt to destabilize opposing forces by inciting war between factions by controlling/manipulating/allying with the rulers of one (or both) sides.
    -The advanced alien race worshipped as holy figures have a cast-off (or opposing) faction/race villified by the same races (Vorlons/Shadows; Minbari, Narns, etc).
    -A character has a vision of being on a planet and looking up to see enemy forces blot out the sun (Londo/Sisko)
    -The station Captain has fragmented visions of events to come. (Sheridan/Sisko)
    -A character initiates an area spread of a attack with a weapon to reveal and kill two cloaked enemies they only suspected were there.
    -The characters visit a derelict sister station. (B4/Empok Nor)
    -After being launched in full swing at the end of a season, the major conflict against the powerful race that the series has been building up to achieves a significant resolution in the 6th episode of the following season, involving the main character seeking the intervention of higher beings. This sequence of events also involves a debate on an astral plane of existence where higher beings take the rapdily shifting form of the main character's allies. (Sheridan/Sisko, Shadows/Vorlons/Dominion, First Ones/Prophets)
    -A secretive organization charged with protecting other organizations from greater threats utilizes an Inquisitor to interrogate a member of the crew as a means of recruitment.
     
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  7. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    "In the Pale Moonlight" also received another novel followup, Hollow Men, by Una McCormick. The book partially explored the aftermath of Sisko's conspiracy (among other things).

    I did like the show a lot, esp. as we see Sisko's slow path to the end, and how he keeps ignoring each chance to turn back. Chilling ending, where he admits that he can live with his crimes, too.
     
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  8. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2015
    Such an intense moral dilemma in that episode....the writing was fantastic. Episodes like "In the Pale Moonlight" are a big part of what made DS9 so special.
     
  9. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Indeed. Not only a highlight of the series but the franchise as a whole.
     
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  10. Iix_Hunter

    Iix_Hunter Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2015
    "in the pale moonlight" has got to be my favourite episode of the series, it is the one i go back to time and again and usually when i'm cherry-picking through shows i tend to skip over bits and cut off the ending once i've seen the scenes i want but this ep always has me hooked right up to that last line "I can live with it..." like he's trying to convince himself.
     
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  11. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, it's like he's trying to convince himself and then realizes he just did.
     
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  12. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Isn't The Visitor supposed to be the best DS9 episode?
     
  13. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I think I've seen that said, yeah. But then there's always going to be those 2-3 episodes people will debate over whether they're the best episode or not (like The Inner Light for TNG, it's not for everyone).
     
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  14. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2015
    I really love The Visitor, but having lost a parent myself at around Jake's age I find it tough to watch. Definitely strikes an emotional cord with me. And yeah, I've always thought The Inner Light was very average (Patrick Stewart's performance aside), and I seem to be in the minority on that one.
     
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  15. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    From my experience "The Visitor," Trials and Tribble-lations," "In the Pale Moonlight," and "Far Beyond the Stars" tend to be cited as the best DS9 episode the most often
     
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  16. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Duet is often cited as best of season 1, but I tend to rate it best overall.
     
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  17. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    Haven't seen that one yet, but I've heard good things about it. Of what I've seen, "The Nagus" was my favorite season 1 show (but then, I'm a sucker for Ferengi episodes).
     
  18. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    "In Pale Moonlight" is straight up my favourite DS9 episode ever. It pretty much nails the entire concept of the series in one episode, moral ambiguity and having to deal with larger consequences while they're on a (relatively immobile) space station which could affect the larger world. And the final narration that ends the episode is a highlight of pretty much Star Trek. It basically encapsulates what made DS9 distinctive. The Visitor is really good but, to be honest, it feels more like a TNG or a VOY episode, high concept time travel wrapped around a character. In Pale Moonlight is an episode that only could have worked on DS9.
     
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  19. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2015
    Duet is really great. The best season 1 episode by a large margin IMO.
     
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  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    One Captain is at Odds With Her Crew:


    It All Ends With a Big Bang:

    VOY 421: The Omega Directive
    -Premise: Captain Janeway must carry out a top secret Starfleet directive regarding the most powerful substance known to exist.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments:

    Off the bat, this title sounds like something out of Galaxy Quest. Just saying. As Tuvok and Kim assemble this explosive, once again a component is obviously way lighter than it should be. I believe this is the second Voyager episode recently to make references to makers of great bombs/weapons- here, Einstein, previously, Oppenheimer.

    "For the remainder of this mission, the Prime Directive is rescinded." That's an interesting detail- there are threats and situations that break through even the hardest line policy of the Federation. A coincidence that this is revealed not long after the introduction of Section 13 and Sisko's actions in Pale Moonlight?

    Seven implenting mini-collective elements with Starfleet ideas is amusing and also interesting- be curious to see what kind of full hybrid structure she'd create if given the opportunity (and a general "do not remake The Collective" restriction, of course ;)).

    "When in the Collective, Harry, adapt."

    "The final frontier has some boundaries that shouldn't be crossed- and we're looking at one."

    "Master DaVinci doesn't like visitors after midnight."
    "He protested, I deactivated him."

    Would have liked a little more with Seven at the end- and I hope some aspect of this is followed up on down the road (though it probably won't be- I'm not getting my hopes up) either with Seven or the particle's nature in general. It would have been nice if Voyager had made amends for seemingly killing off a race's chance at a much needed power source by perhaps providing them something advanced enough for their needs but safer to use (especially since the Prime Directive is rescinded in this circumstance). At the very least the scientists can still replicate their research which means the Omega particle threat here is still present. I'd rather enjoy more Starfleet missions like this- going in to neutralize weapon/tech threats being developed by developing races, even if it's against the Prime Directive. Anyways, solid episode- Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: Original title was The Omega Effect. The episode concept was intended to be controversial but it's develpment was troubled unti they hit on the idea of it being about religion in regards to Seven and the Borg. The request to visually design the omega molecule amounted to "Come up with a design where Seven of Nine would look at it and thinks she's looking at God. Good luck.".

    Torres was scripted to be present at the Omega briefing but Dawson went into labor right after filming her only other scene in the episode.

    The episode has had comparisons made to TNG: The Pegasus with the idea that sometimes "Starfleet does not always make the right decisions for the right reasons and that it is up to our heroes to ultimately make the right moral choice".

    Janeway references the Genesis device and Carol Marcus in one of her log entries- the Genesis Device was called an "Omega " device in early story treatments for TWOK. The Omega particles introduced here would have played a major role in the proposed animated Star Trek series from a few years ago. It also played a major role in the Star Trek: Armada video game. In the novel Cloak, the Omega Directive is described as "General Order 0", thus placing it before the Prime Directive/General Order 1.



    DS9 620: His Way
    -Premise: Odo consults a holographic lounge singer about his relationship with Kira.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: I wonder if this is the celebration party Sisko referred to in his entry log at the end of Pale Moonlight?

    "He's not your ordinary hologram." - He's our guest star! ;)

    "Why are you asking advice from a lightbulb?"

    it makes sense that Odo would fine something tactile like the piano as a source of fun given the nature of Changelings and their relationship to understanding objects. Star Trek dating tip plots tend to come across a little meta given the stereotypical perception of it's fanbase. Having the holo-Kira singer for Odo feels like a throwback to the first Barclay episode of TNG- though not as corny (yet).

    To the episode's credit, it could have easily gone down the easy road and used the "Odo thought he was dating a hologram of me" realization as a way to drive Kira and Odo apart again (even if to extend the drama for just a little longer within just this episode), but it doesn't. And, in the end, it ends up being kind of a sweet story. So, Odo and Kira finally getting together is certainly a notable character arc moment- I'm not sure if it's an absolute essential being a quiet, light stand alone story in the midst of the larger war drama but I think we can say it's Potentially Essential.

    Trivia: The episode was made with the sole purpose of getting Kira and Odo together after drawing out that thread for so long. The character of Vic Fontaine had been intended to be included in the series for quite some time- they first attempted to introduce the character during the first season where he would have been played by Frank Sinatra Jr, who ultimately turned down the role as he was only interested in playing an alien and not a character modeled after his father. They tried again during the fifth season with the intention of Steve Lawrence playing the role but he proved to be unavailable and the scene was dropped. During the subsequent year they offered to the roe to Robert Goulet, Tom Jones and Jerry Vale- all of whom turned down the role. A chance meeting with James Darren led to him being cast in the role- Darren came in emphasizing he wouldn't be auditioning but impressed them by naturally transitioning into the dialogue without the producers realizing it at first.

    Both Nana Visitor and Rene Auberjonois wanted Kira and Odo to remain friends and not become romantically involved, but lost that battle. The first take of the kiss is what is used in the episode- the kiss actually tore Rene's mask and got the makeup on Nana's face (though it isn't visible in the final episode). ("when people ask, 'Well, what was it like to kiss Nana?' I say, 'The definition of safe-sex is this latex mask. It was the most unsensual kiss I'd ever had. I didn't feel anything'.")

    When Nana Visitor was a child, she would visit Duke's Mansion in New Jersey with her mother (who was friends with Doris Duke) and on one occasion, Duke sang "Fever"- a performance that made a big impression on her, which is why she chose that song to perform for this episode. Fun fact: I once got to tour Duke's Mansion with a coworker a little over 10 years ago to help determine a mattress order they were placing for the various rooms. Given how old some of the mattresses were, I wouldn't be surprised if some were the same ones that were present while Visitor visited, ha.

    Behr was disappointed that some fans did not receive this episode very well, feeling that it achieved what it set out to do very well and that it's a masked triumph- just not one as obvious as shows like The Visitor, in that achieving a romantic comedy without many cliches or over doing things is very difficult, especially on a show not aimed towards that like Star Trek.

    One of the scaly humanoid aliens seen on the promenade when Odo and Kira kiss is a Venturi- a race that has appeared briefly on the show before but was first introduced in the Starfleet Academy video game. After Odo's first shot at the piano, one of the cheering patrons is NCIS' s Michael Weatherly. This episode aired less than a month before Frank Sinatra's death.



    A Mysterious Woman:


    A Love Affair:

    VOY 422: Unforgettable
    -Premise: Chakotay meets a woman who claims that they fell in love a few weeks before, although he doesn't remember her anymore.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Tuvok sounding a bit surprised that the cloaked ship is no longer on their sensors, heh. A species with a natural covert nature that makes people forget about them- they're a much prettier version of The Silence.

    Her hair feels like they had an extra set of Kes's hair laying around (the long curly hair at the end, not the short nymph hair from early on). it would seem a simple solution to her dilemma here would be to record a message to herself to fill in her missing memories- as we're presumably only dealing with "recent memories" of a few weeks at best and she'd still be fully aware of what these Tracer weapons do to one's memory- not to mention potentially still aware of her last mission aboard Voyager from a month prior from which to build off of.

    Chakotay seems a little too non-chalant about them planting a selective computer virus in the ship's systems AGAIN.

    "I want to get it all down before I forget it all." so Neelix continues to interrupt and distract him, potentially creating a minor delay that might result in Chakotay being unable to finish writing it down in time- that ass. But, in his defense, he eventually realizes this and excuses himself.

    So, ok premise, don't feel like the destination was worth the journey though. I'd love to be able to say that Unforgettable is Forgettable, but in truth, it's merely just Average.

    Trivia: One of Robert Beltran's favorite episodes from Voyager's entire run- the characters focus and minimal technobabble being chief among his reasons. This is the first episode in the series to not have Roxann Dawson appear in it. Directed by Andrew Robinson/Garak. The Ramurans design were a deliberate decision to try to move away from doing foreheads for makeup.
     
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  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    History Will Turn Into Anarchy:


    Is This the Future of Voyager?:

    VOY 423: Living Witness
    -Premise: Reactivated after lying inactive for seven hundred years, a backup version of The Doctor tries to uncover the truth about war crimes supposedly committed by Voyager when they passed a planet centuries ago.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: This opening is somewhat Mirror Universe in nature. Either that or it's illustrating that the Pegasus under Admiral Cain would have gotten back to the Alpha Quadrant by lunchtime. This premise of a future historian looking back at events in the "present" echoes the B5 S4 finale that aired 6 months earlier. 700 years in the future- one would think that the 31st centiry Federation might be ticked that their name is being defamed in the Delta Quadrant (I guess that whole Pathfinder thing from the novels didn't pan out so well?). Interesting that it also implies the Borg are still around/a familiar concept at the time of the "700 years later" setting. We all know the "Borg must win" fate of the Trek galaxy, so even though this isn't conclusive to either result, it's still an interesting piece of evidence towards that theory.

    [​IMG]

    Is it bad that I'm liking War Kim and War Chakotay better than the real ones? War Janeway and (...hehe) the War Doctor are awesome too.

    "They've taken Seven of Nine and one of the injured crew members hostage." but apparently that guy isn't important enough for me to be concerned over his name so our job is already halfway done.

    One can't help but laugh at the pan over to the second level of Inception. I like that ending. Good to know the Doctor may be joining up with 32nd century Starfleet. Good Episode, But Not necessarily Essential.

    Trivia: Tim Russ's directorial debut. The original story concept revolved around the Doctor reactivating in the future and discovering he was responsible for a movement for accepting artificial beings as members of society- but this was changed as it felt the concept was too close to Data. The early concepts of the Doctor in a museum had the museum be Romulan or Klingon in nature, but they changed it to a Delta Quadrant alien museum for the simple reason that they didn't want to address the fate of Voyager (which an Alpha Quadrant museum 700 years in the future would likely know about).

    Roxann Dawson's absence in this episode was due to her recovering from her pregnancy. The Kyrian museum set would later be reused as part of the Son'a ship in Insurrection. This is the only episode of Star Trek to not feature any living human characters on-screen. It is also technically the only episode to not feature any regular characters on-screen either- as they're all holographic recreations and the Doctor himself is a backup program.

    As the exact timeframe of the final scene of this episode could be set anywhere from the 31st to the 38th century, it is likely set further in the future than any scene filmed in the entire Star Trek franchise- likewise, this is the only episode of TNG, DS9 or VOY to not have any scenes set in the 24th century.

    A slight question surrounding the backup module's existence contradicts statements regarding the EMH program in other episodes which suggests that the module was either stolen between The Gift and Message in a Bottle or was created later on after Season 6's Life Line and then stolen.


    Up Next: DS9 621: The Reckoning, DS9 622: Valiant, VOY 424: Demon & DS9 623: Profit and Lace.


    Voyager Resources:

    Crew: (152 People, as of The 37's)
    -Death Wish: Quinn/Q2 joins the crew (153 remain), then commits suicide. (152 remain)
    -Alliances: Kurt Bandera, dead. (151 remain)
    -Meld: Darwin, dead. (150 remain)
    -Investigations: Michael Jonas, dead. (149 remain)
    -Deadlock: Wildman baby born. (150 remain)
    -Innocence: Ensign Bennet, dead. (149 remain)
    -Basics, Part I: Bridge crewmember shot, presumed dead (148 remain)
    -Basics, Part II: Hogan, Suder & blue uniform crewmember, dead (145 remain)
    -Warlord: Martin, dead. (144 remain)
    -Unity: Ensign Marie Kaplan, dead. (143 remain)
    -Distant Origin: Five unknown people added to crew, as crew stated to be 148
    -Scorpion, part II: Svene of Nine joins the crew (149 remain)
    -Scientific Method: Ensign Roberta Luke, dead. (148 remain)
    -(Ashes to Ashes & Imperfection; between Hunters & Prey): Lynsay Ballard, dead (147 remain)*
    -The Killing Game, Part I: Unidentified crew member, dead. (146 remain)
    -Living Witness: 3 unidentified crew members killed by the Kyrian incursion. (143 remain)

    *Season 6 & 7 episodes, listed here in advance for proper tally moving forward
     
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  22. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 621: The Reckoning
    -Premise: The discovery of a 30,000 year old Bajoran tablet buried under the holy city of B'hala announces the Reckoning, the time when the future of Bajor will be decided.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: The city of Vahalla? I heard that wrong, right? No wait, it's Baha Men.

    The prophecy of danger to the station as a gateway to the temple is an interesting scenario that highlights an aspect of the show that isn't often focused on as its various elements tend to be segregated from one another more often than not- in this case, the idea of a technological outpost as a gateway to a more mythical or supernatural threshold- like a city at the foot of an enchanted mountain.

    The first shockwave scene brings up a question that I forget if it has been addressed yet- but has Starfleet remined the wormhole? While the one specific fleet of Dominion reenforcements may have been stopped by the Prophets, surely there are other Dominion forces that could still come through?

    There is no Kira, only Zuel.

    Ok, so they're saying the Prophets are continuing to prevent the Dominion from passing through the wormhole. Still, surely a second minefield would be a prudent precaution? This whole evac sequence is pretty well handled- actually much better than past scenarios that have done similar things.

    So, this seems to be a peak episode in the Emissary plot thread- though not the culmination, but a bigger step than any other episode prior, IMO. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The initial story approach was that of a horror film, described as "Godzilla versus Mothra, with a Mummy opening". This opening involved a Vedek discovering a casket that releases two entitles when opened- causing the Vedek to die from a heart attack.

    The original script also had Sisko be the one to flood the Promenade with radiation to protect the station and it's people while Kai Winn was possessed by the Pah-Wraith. They came to realize this was the opposite direction to go in and so they changed the combatants to involve Jake to create a comparison between Sisko and Abraham- being asked to sacrifice his son. The original battle as scripted was a running conflict all over the station, with the combatants hurling fireballs at each other and destroying the Promenade. This concept was scaled back due to logistics (it was estimated that the original script would have taken 15 days to shoot versus the normal 6 day shoot for a DS9 episode).

    This is the first time a Prophet has been seen outside of the wormhole. Dax says the tablet says that the Bajorans will suffer horribly- or eat fruit. In the earlier scene between Kira and Odo, Kira is eating a fruit salad.



    DS9 622: Valiant
    -Premise: Fleeing a Jem'Hadar attack aboard a runabout, Jake and Nog are rescued by a Defiant-class ship crewed by over-eager Red Squad cadets who are biting off more than they can chew.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Quark suddenly being in love with Dax seems a bit much given the other shipping that's been done on the station already, let alone only two episodes ago. The Valiant- they seem surprised at the appearance of another Defiant-class ship even though we've seen them with the fleets before (plus in Message in a Bottle on Voyager)- unless the Valiant was one of them before the training mission began (but that wouldn't track with their "we're on a training mission when the war broke out" backstory).

    Everyone seems to have forgotten the case containing the seemingly important, alliance-building message to the Nagus at this point. Face-projecting vid screens- this has to be a Mike Vejar directed episode. That would explain the fun camerawork so far. Red Squad needs a few more words for their chant. What's with all the formal phaser prep exercises and such? Their mission isn't going to end up in a personnel shoot-out, they either blow the ship up or get blown up themselves or both.

    This shot of the Valiant going to warp 6 is not a stock shot I've seen before- it's almost like the Defiant is flying tilted back with her nose in the air a bit. it's basically the reverse of the nose-down tilt that the Enterprise had in TOS's opening credits which always looked kinda ridiculous.

    This battleship actually echoes or foreshadows some design aspects of the Scimitar... I wonder if there's a commonality in their origins that might help explain how Shinzon could have had it built in secret- would have been a nice post-Dominion War connection (and, in a way, also would have played off of Odo's line in the prior episode about the Romulans not giving back territory), cause, damn that thing is pretty scary- and the description of it being 2x bigger than a Galaxy-class and 3x as powerful would fit the general vibe of the Scimitar (minus the Romulan-added flair and superweapon-deploying wings).

    This episode has a bit of a Lower Decks vibe mixed with a dash of The First Duty. Though it's not directly related to other events (yet), I'd still say it's Definitely Essential. Also, I was totally right- it was Vejar that directed this episode.

    Trivia: The Jem'Hadar Battleship is the second new studio model made for DS9 with no physical counterpart as the existing cruiser model was not built to withstand the close scrutiny the Valiant's attack run along it's surface would require- nor was the CGI version. The extra detail needed for the closeups of it's surface would work to it's disadvantage in later episodes showing it at medium and long range.

    The original draft of this episode featured Jake and Kira instead of Nog. They felt this wouldn't work (""It didn't work because you couldn't believe that Kira wouldn't kick every one of their asses and take back the ship single-handedly.").

    Moore originally wanted to name the Defiant (named after the ship from TOS: The Tholian Web) the Valiant (after the ship in TOS: Where No Man Has Gone Before) but was forbidden from using any name starting with the letter "V" due to the development of Voyager at the time.

    The Valiant's helmsman, Cadet Riley Shepard, previously appeared as a member of Red Squad in DS9 Paradise Lost. This is the last appearance of the runabout Shenandoah (a reasonable outcome, given that it was left floating in enemy space... with the Nagus message still aboard that everyone forgot about).


    Desperate Times...


    If You Can't Take the Heat...:


    VOY 424: Demon
    -Premise: Voyager, desperately low on fuel, finds deuterium on a highly hostile "Demon class" planet.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: This whole grey mode situation probably wouldn't have been necessary at this point if they hadn't been running a holodeck almost constantly for 4 years (though, granted, the Hirogen's "leave the lightswitches on" approach didn't help matters).

    Neelix, please stop being annoying (though I can't see why a single book would have been problematic for him to retain).

    "It didn't seem like you."
    "Good."
    So... even Kim doesn't like himself? Harry lists the stuff that has happened to him over the past 4 years and mentions "coming back from the dead"- unless I'm forgetting another instance (and I very well could be), could that be a long-needed reference to his doppleganger status? Still, it's odd for a character to pause and vocally point out his own character evolution (or behavior incongruitous with typical past behavior) as opposed to actually showing that or allowing the viewer to pick up on it.

    You know, I think I might have actually seen this episode before... Torres recommending Seven is awkward- even her explanation seems like some kind of obligatory "Seven is awesome" mission statement.

    Not sure how clone Kim would only "think" he understood why the crew can't stay on the planet despite being fully aware of Kim's memories to the point of believing himself to be the real Kim- he should definitely understand. So we have our third Kim (that's the real one dead, the temporal doppleganger alive and the silver blood Kim stranded) and a near-whole crew of Starfleet clones left behind on a planet with apparently very little in the way of nutrition for a being that is supposedly identical to human physiology outside of breathing and heat concerns. So they will probably all starve to death. I'll also assume they were able to retrieve the shuttlecraft.

    In the end, this episode doesn't really do much for me- decent concept, appropriate resolution but not enough meat. I'd go with Average but apparently this duplicate crew shows up again down the road so, Potentially Essential.

    Trivia: The story evolved from an undeveloped episode where the Silver Blood duplicates of the crew were welcomed back to the Alpha Quadrant as if they were the actual crew (that actually sounds much more interesting).

    They weren't allowed to cover the environmental suit with the goo because of how expensive the suits were, so for the scene where they pull Kim out of the pool, they used a stunt actor with only the arm of a suit; the silver blood was concieved as being similar to mercury and was achieved using both CGI and silver model paint.

    A lot of time was spent making sure they got the scale of Voyager correct for the landed shots, so as to avoid the problem that The 37's had. Ron Moore himself composited the shots of the landed ship.



    DS9 623: Profit and Lace
    -Premise: Grand Nagus Zek is deposed after he begins to promote female rights; Quark changes his sex temporarily to prevent Brunt from becoming the new Grand Nagus.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: "A Dominion invasion of Ferenginar?"
    "Think of the terrible repercussions to the Alpha Quadrant!"
    "I cannot think of any."

    Slug-o Cola? It's like a Futurama or retroactive JJ reference...;

    Oh man, it's going to be a cross dressing comedy? Really? Admiral Tyler Perry Presents Big Quark's House? Ugh

    "Looks like your stupidity has saved you again."
    "It comes in handy sometimes."

    I have not been so tempted to hit the "stop" button since TOS. Early TOS. This is just awful. I actually have to resurrect the classification "Trash" to hold this episode- a category I basically haven't had to use since Season 2 of TNG (with exception to VOY: Threshold- but TNG Season 2 had multiple).

    Trivia: Episode title is a reference to the episode title "Profit and Loss". Shimmerman supposedly hated the script and refused to play certain elements of it, such as Lumba crying a lot, as he felt it was a poor stereotype- and that Quark didn't learn anything from his experience.

    Though the production staff thought the episode was going to be a classic, the episode ended up with negative reviews- being ranked the worst episode in a 1999 poll by Sci-fi Entertainment. it's believed that a conflict of tonal styles contributed to the episode's problems, with director Siddig and actor Shimemrman trying to play up the darker elements to try to create a comic episode with serious undertones out of a script intended to be high-farce. Behr felt this pisode was the biggest disappointment of his entire time on Star Trek, as it was essentially the last Ferengi show.


    Up Next: VOY 425: One, DS9 624: Time's Orphan, VOY 426: Hope and Fear, DS9 625: The Sound of Her Voice & DS9 626: Tears of the Prophets.



    The Babylon Project Log:

    -Space stations ending with a numerical designation that are of commerce ports in nature (prominently featuring a casino area), near a giant swirling blue vortex passageway (wormhole/jumpgate) used for travel and a location of advanced creation (prophet temple/Great Machine).
    -Hard-edged female second in command, pessimistic, sarcastic security chief. somewhat ethnic doctor.
    -Characters named Dukat/Dukhat
    -A spiritual race recently coming free of occupation by a more militaristic civilization, the conflict of which led the spiritual race to become more militant themselves.
    -Gambler conman (Quark/Londo) has somewhat fluctuating antagonistic friendship with hard-edged chief of security (Odo/Garabaldi).
    -Characters played by Julie Caitlin Brown have a long-standing grudge against a notorious murderer who has prolonged their life at the expense of others through scientific experimentation (Rao Vantika/Jha'dur "Deathwalker").
    -The term "Changeling" has significance in relation to early parts of both series (the B5 pilot "the Gathering" and DS9's "Vortex" & beyond), though applied to different elements (technology versus a species).
    -A main character slowly constructs a device (chrysalis/clock) piece of piece in their quarters while conversing with a subordinate .
    -A main character often referred to as Chief (Miles/Garibaldi) has a recurring assistant (Neela/garibaldi's Aide) who is a plant by another faction that attempts to bring about political change by assassinating a prominent rival leader (Bariel/Santiago) in the first season finale so that one of their faction may replace him (Adami/Clark). Their plot is uncovered by the Chief character.
    -The Circle/Homeguard Bajoran for Bajorans, vandalism with a symbol; subdues and brands an alien on the middle of the forehead with their logo
    -Second Season opens with a command officer (Sinclair/Kira) being reassigned from the station to be among the religious order of a species heavily involved with the operation of the station, partly due to prophecy
    -A near-human alien race has their hair up in a fan-style to represent social status.
    -A character played by Julia Nickson (Catherine/Cassandra) romances (or attempts to romance) the commander of the station (Sinclair/Sisko).
    -Characters have discussion of higher and lower lifeforms awareness of each other to that of ants (Odo & Kira/G'Kar & Catherine Sakai).
    -3rd Season Premiere introduces a new prototype warship for use by the station's crew using technology from other races (Vorlon/Romulan), in response to the appearance of a powerful new enemy race (Shadows/ Dominion)
    -Image of female commanding officer of station used (or attempted to be used) in an erotic hologram program against her knowledge/wishes.
    -Shady Political Organization develops it's own fleet of ships in secret without knowledge of the military (Obsidian Order/Psi Corps)
    -A redheaded female character named Leeta/Lyta becomes a recurring character on the show in 1995, played by somewhat similar looking actresses.
    -During a time travel story in the 3rd season, the Commander of the station becomes/takes on the identity of a key historical figure.
    -An alien brings (or is speculated to have brought) knowledge of the future to the past that is passed on by others as religious prophecy amongst a spiritual people.
    -A main character uncontrollably flashes forward in time and attempts to use those visions to change future events (Miles/Several)
    -The Doctor must, through strength of will, fight his way through a potentially fatal wound inflicted by a one-shot criminal, guided by vision(s) of a familiar face(s) representing a different facet of his mind. (Bashir/Franklin)
    -The opening title sequence involves people in spacesuits doing external repairs to the station to convey a sense of scale
    -Weapon systems of the station are upgraded for a coming battle
    -Weapon systems on the station of similar design emerge from hidden ports
    -The station, after harboring political/military refugees/fugitives, must defend itself in battle (both against ships and boarding parties) against former allies. Re-enforcements to the attacking forces are known to arrive just as allied re-enforcements do so, forcing the resolution to the battle to make the attacking forces standdown.
    -A warrior of alien traditions joins the main cast about midway through the series.
    -A main character is involved in a "lesbian" relationship in an episode that aired in October 1995.
    -The main character (Sheridan/Sisko) serves under a high ranking Earth military officer played by Robert Foxworth (Hague/Leyton), who is attempting a coup against the Earth's government.
    -A guest character undergoes a mindwipe/death of personality. (chronological viewing also results in this episode being back to back with the VOY episode that features Brad Douriff, who plays the guest character on B5)
    -Labor disputes attempted to be resolved "by any means necessary" via enforcers.
    -A main alien character becomes more human through a drastic physical change.
    -The main enemy of the series (Shadows/Dominion) attempt to destabilize opposing forces by inciting war between factions by controlling/manipulating/allying with the rulers of one (or both) sides.
    -The advanced alien race worshipped as holy figures have a cast-off (or opposing) faction/race villified by the same races (Vorlons/Shadows; Minbari, Narns, etc).
    -A character has a vision of being on a planet and looking up to see enemy forces blot out the sun (Londo/Sisko)
    -The station Captain has fragmented visions of events to come. (Sheridan/Sisko)
    -A character initiates an area spread of a attack with a weapon to reveal and kill two cloaked enemies they only suspected were there.
    -The characters visit a derelict sister station. (B4/Empok Nor)
    -After being launched in full swing at the end of a season, the major conflict against the powerful race that the series has been building up to achieves a significant resolution in the 6th episode of the following season, involving the main character seeking the intervention of higher beings. This sequence of events also involves a debate on an astral plane of existence where higher beings take the rapdily shifting form of the main character's allies. (Sheridan/Sisko, Shadows/Vorlons/Dominion, First Ones/Prophets)
    -A secretive organization charged with protecting other organizations from greater threats utilizes an Inquisitor to interrogate a member of the crew as a means of recruitment.
    -Alien beings on a higher plane of existence do mortal battle aboard the station, fulfilling a prophecy.
     
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  23. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    You just had to remind everyone that Profit and Lace exists, didn't you? *shudders*
     
    Juliet316 and Sarge like this.
  24. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    My suffering is your suffering.

    Besides, the others, the innocent, must be warned.
     
  25. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    No episode can be as bad as Code of Honor. I refuse to believe otherwise.
     
    Juliet316 likes this.