Senate To extend Unemployment benefits or not

Discussion in 'Community' started by beezel26, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    What do you believe? Should the govt have extended unemployment benefits or not? Should it have gone back to the standard set during the recession beyond 26 weeks? Personally, if you are going beyond 26 weeks you had better be in school because if you have lasted that long without a job, you prospects are miserable. The problem I see with the left and the right is both sides live in a political bubble and neither side sees what employers want and what is reality. Even now employers have options instead of single individuals who want a job. They now have ten to twenty candidates instead of the hundreds they had during the recession. Employers are looking for people with work ethics. Not someone who is on unemployment forever. Honestly, taking unemployment beyond even sixteen weeks is a poisonous pill. You make that decision to stay on unemployment instead of getting any job and employers don't see a hard worker they see an entitled worker. They see someone not willing to make a go out of it. Someone who relies on someone else instead of making his own way. I have survived getting fired and being laid off. Honestly, your in a better position with a job then without one. Even if you have to work two jobs to make up for the one. We are returning to a society where entitlement is being replaced by hard work. Difficult economy will do that. Besides its hard to teach entitlement to the next generation when they are the ones competing for the same jobs because their are fewer ones to go around. Not to mention the college kids don't get the luxury of unemployment insurance. They may live with mom and dad but for how long? And even most of the time they have to pay rent. I know I had to. I did unemployment insurance only once and that was when I made the decision to go back to school. The next semester after it ended I got a job and worked a full time job and school. And it was brutal but it worked out in the end. I got lots of prospects and was able to go to Germany for three months with my own money. Relying on unemployment insurance taught me not to rely on myself.
    Last edited by beezel26, Jan 5, 2014
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Cool rant but there's not much substance in there.

    You are aware that going to school costs money, right? Money that unemployed people don't have?

    You are also aware that in order to work two jobs, the person has to be able to get hired at one job--which apparently they can't do, or they wouldn't be on unemployment in the first place?

    Your claim that people who are on unemployment, are doing so by choice when they could be working, needs some statistical backup.

    Until this economy improves to pre-2008 levels, yes, benefits should be extended.
  3. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Going back to school requires the same loans that college aged kids get and they are deferred so its possible actually easier because the gov't helps out those who lost jobs to get reeducated. Very much so.
    Plus unemployed folks without college debt have debt that can be discharged. College kids with student loans can't.
    When I said getting another job that doesn't mean the same job at the same pay. You will find most people that stay that long that are not going back to school are trying to get the same job in the same field making the same money. Meanwhile the kid that can't get unemployment cause they just got out of college is getting a job wherever they can including low paying retail or service jobs to make ends meet. Who do you think an employer is going to hire? The young person with a job or the older person that won't allow themselves to get a less paying job cause they want to get the equivalent job they had. You can not ask an employer to take a chance on you if you are not willing to take a chance on yourself. Unemployment insurance is a safe bet. Getting a low paying job that takes lots of time and pays little sounds too difficult. Hey, you might get a job at a retail place and get promoted to some sort of management position cause you show up on time. Sure it may not be much but hey its management experience you didn't have before that will help you. That might give you a leg up in the job interview process. And unless you get a real bastard for an employer at the low paying job its very possible the low paying one will give you a reference and letter of commendation. Why cause you told them you are looking for a job and instead of relying on unemployment you chose to work. It will be your work ethic that will define you. Not your previous experience and how long you have been stuck on unemployment insurance.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Again, cool rant with a lot of baseless assumptions about people.

    When you have some statistical evidence to back up your "blah blah blah LAZY PEOPLE!" diatribe, actual discussion can happen.
  5. SuperWatto Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2000
    star 5
    That, and some line breaks might help.
    Vaderize03 likes this.
  6. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    [IMG]
    If you notice the longer you stay unemployed the worse the number becomes. In other words if you chose stay unemployed and not take another job you join the rest of unemployment line and have worse outcome. It only gets worse the longer you stay unemployed.
    Also the research looks bad for anyone over 35. Staying unemployed longer is the norm especially for those over 55. The younger and middle age actually do pretty good.

    [IMG]

    This one is sobering. You have a third of a chance of getting another job soon after you are laid off. It gets below ten percent by the time you are at 52 weeks. In other words it will only get worse. Not better. You have to get a job. Any job or else it only gets worse. If anything this points out that if you don't want to get any job to support yourself, then you have less of a chance of getting that great job that you lost during the downturn.
  7. Sandtrooper92 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2013
    star 2
    Paragraph breaks are your friend.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    You are still assuming that people are jobless by choice.

    Many employers are reluctant to hire anyone over 55, in fact, people over 55 who have jobs are being laid off and replaced with younger, cheaper labor because employers do not want to pay either the salaries or health benefits for older people.

    I live in a state with double digit unemployment. Where exactly are these jobs that you are saying that people "have to" get?

    Statistics on unemployed people are not enough to prove your case that people are only unemployed because they are lazy.

    Try again.
  9. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    You know I don't believe you can ever really prove who is being lazy and who isn't sucking up unemployment. Let's face it, if you were a carpenter who gets laid off in the winter would you bother to get off of unemployment if you knew the jobs were coming in the spring? Probably not. You would end up saving all your money in the summer to tide you over for the winter and use unemployment as a supplement. Is it lazy, some say yes. Then there are those who want that same job they had and won't do anything else. Are they lazy, maybe to them no. Or you could have in some regions where jobs for anyone are hard to come by. I live in a decent area of upstate NY. Getting any job is easy. We are not hard up for jobs. But two hours north in the Adirondacks jobs don't come easy. Vermont is the same way. So yes you want spirical data it will be difficult to find. Although its more likely you can compare regional job growth to long term unemployed. If growth is good then the burden falls to the under employed. When the job market sucks then it points to the market itself. In the old days when you had boom towns people flocked to them for jobs but at the same time when the silver or gold ran out so did the jobs. People couldn't stay on in the town.
    I can tell you Northwest of Albany is the city of Amsterdam. It was the carpeting capital of the northeast. They are all gone and the place is a shell of what it once was. There are no jobs, you have to drive to Albany for a job. Would I live there, not sure but the houses are cheap if you can afford the two hour drive to work and back everyday. You want to assign blame to the economy and employers for not allowing these underemployed to become employed again but you forget the underemployed share some of the blame. They are solely responsible for their lives. When a man becomes an alcoholic because of an injustice, you can blame the injustice on his problem but for only so long. You have to take the step to get out from under your situation. If you don't it will swallow you. And giving extensions only keep the problem going longer. There comes a point in time where you have to move on as an unemployed person and realize its your life. It is your work that will get you back to where you want. And honestly, think about it, 8 percent. 8 percent is all the chance you have at getting a job at 52 weeks. Do you think these people will have any better chances when it goes from 52 weeks to 99 and so on. You are ruining there chances by helping them out.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Since you can't prove that people are being lazy...try not assuming that they are being lazy.
  11. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    Ok, do you have any data that says extending long term unemployment benefits actually help people or are you just gonna make it about being lazy.
  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Here is what people are facing right now

    I was not the one making it about "being lazy." Your posts asserted that people who are on unemployment, are there because they don't want to work. Then you said you could not prove this.

    The benefit to extending unemployment insurance is that people will have a way to pay for food and housing while they are unemployed, without having to apply for other government social programs. You are correct in that it becomes more difficult to find a job the longer a person is out of work. Where you are incorrect is in the assumption that people are out of work through some fault of their own. At least in North Carolina, a person who is fired from a job, such as the alcoholic in your straw man, is not eligible for unemployment benefits. The job loss must be due to downsizing, a position being eliminated, or another such reason that is not the fault of the person losing the job.

    You admitted that many areas do not have jobs. Do you know how much it costs to relocate? Way more than the unemployed have. And you actually think a four-hour round trip commute is an option with gas prices what they are?

    And the "underemployed" that you are so eager to demonize are in that position because there are no better jobs.
  13. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    I've been job hunting for a year and I've had no luck because libraries are pretty reluctant to hire anyone who doesn't know Spanish. I took several classes at different times during K-12, but I've forgotten most of it now. And having to commute more than a hour to work is not an option.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I feel very fortunate to have a job, and I have my MLS and I speak Spanish. Libraries have made a lot of cuts since 2008 and those of us who work in the schools, are often having to justify why our position could not be filled by an assistant making less than half what I make. Fortunately my boss believes my position is important but other librarians have not had that experience.

    Anyway...good luck, hope something opens up for you.
  15. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah, Dad told me I needed to learn Spanish or Hmong to stand a chance of getting a library job. Guess I'd better teach myself since I can't go back to school until the fall.
    Last edited by Skywalker8921, Jan 5, 2014
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Rosetta Stone if you can swing the $200.
  17. beezel26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2003
    star 7
    I won't lie you are partially right about traveling for work. Trust me, practically half of all people in NJ, downstate NY and Connecticut commute to NYC for a job. It is not cheap. They have to pay to get there. They have to pay additional commuter taxes. Some people may spend two hours or more on a train for their job. It depends on whether it is worth it or not. A job that pays the same and takes twice as long as commute isn't really paying the same but whether the unemployment ends at 26 or 99 you have to make that decision. Time is against you. Giving you money will not help you. It will only prolong the inevitable and give you more time to finally give up. The shorter time you have the shorter the time you will get back on your feet. If you told people that there benefits was going to expire in four weeks you bet people would change their tune. Ask yourself. If your 26 weeks ended two weeks before the new year and only those unemployed still with time left got an extension how would you feel? You had to tough it out. You had find a way.
    The real question of whether or not someone is lazy or not is to ask them the question. If you had to work 40 hours a week doing menial labor and got paid the same amount as you would on unemployment would you do it especially if it meant better odds at getting a job over just getting unemployment. If you are lazy you will wait for unemployment.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    You are, again, assuming that everyone who receives unemployment has the option of "doing something about it", including taking menial labor.
  19. thebadge Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2002
    star 4


    Here in California Education ranked #1 30 years ago in the country.

    Now we rank #50 at the same time the prison budget is now nearly 2.5X

    the education budget. I have three degrees including an MA in European History.

    For two years plus I saw all these great dedicated educators being laid off (Im talking

    only people with 15 years plus exp.) I was the last to be laid-off and education is a dead

    field. Say what you want but combine the prison system and education cutbacks

    your country will soon be a 2nd rate power. Places like India with 500-600 million

    people without fresh water its not hard to see what direction we are going.

    We are playing on house money and that is coming to a nasty stop.

    I taught for 20 years at the same school. staying loyal, happy and making

    the world a better place. What a total joke.

    That was just a sideways report from someone who knows what is going on.

    Sorry, its to late for the rocks to vote the pebbles have already started heading

    ground.
  20. darth-calvin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2002
    star 1
    As far as the strategy of taking menial jobs while waiting for a better one to come along, there are more factors to look at than just the commute. Child care is another huge disincentive. That expense can take your minimum or entry-level wage job down to $4/hr for just one child. Also, a lot of menial jobs don't happen during the regular work day which can make finding a child care provider even harder and, at least where I live, make the cost of that service even higher.

    After payroll taxes, a person with two children working a minimum wage job would most likely be paying to work.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  21. shinjo_jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Silver lining: now that all these people on UI are forced to find a job and stop living off the government, they'll all be employed in no time, tax revenues will rise, and the employment rate will spike. Right?
    anakinfansince1983 and Rogue_Ten like this.
  22. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    It's good to know that the unemployment rate is a simple function of how badly people do or do not want to work.
  23. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    This economy was collapsed on purpose for money. As far as I am concerned the unemployment money handed out because of this crime should continue until everyone who did it to us is in jail, their profits confiscated, and jobs borught back to the United States.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  24. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9

    I'm sorry, are you drunk or high now? I can't quite tell.
  25. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    Neither. I stated a fact and my opinion on it. Do we need to go round and round again?
    Last edited by VadersLaMent, Jan 17, 2014