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TO LFL - Stop abusing Han and Leia's Romance!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CMinor, Jan 19, 2001.

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  1. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    Possible spoilers

    I have to back dp4m up on this one. From what I've read so far, I haven't read anything even remotely bashing Leia. In fact she's been described as beautiful more then once and once by Tahiri who, thinking her thoughts, could understand why Han fell in love with Leia in the first place. And nothing I've read so far has dished their relationship. Like I said before, they do seem to be arguing more, but it's been play fighting for the most part and even if they argue for real, it's over quickly with no residual anger between them. And after witnessing a so-called fight between her parents, Jaina thinks about how their marriage has grown stronger as a result of all they've been through. While I'm disappointed in the secondary role they seem to be playing thus far, I have no complaints about the way they're being written. It's not the best they've been written by a long shot, but it's certainly not the worst either.

    Shelley, I have no doubt that this book is meant to showcase the younger generation. I guess that's what I find so disappointing about Remnant and the NJO as a whole. It just distresses me so to see the characters I love reduced to such insignificant roles as to not even be POV characters anymore.

  2. Caine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2002
    star 4

    A note...

    REMNANT spoilers

    eeyore -
    There was also no mention of Jacen and his mother's special relationship at all. They sure dropped the ball on this plotline.

    That's true, but did you notice how Jacen came to his mom's defense when Luke mentioned that even Leia couldn't get the Imperials to agree with her? Jacen said his mom's diplomatic situation was harder because the Imperials didn't have the Vong in their back yard at the time. And of course he was sure to credit his mom when he said he knew of the Imperials releasing significant navigation information to the Galactic Alliance, as its called now.

    I'm fairly certain the book also mentioned somewhere how Jacen got his strength of character and demeanor from Leia.

    I really do wish Jacen and Leia would spend more time together though. It's really a wonderful mother-son relationship in SW that I love to read about.

    End of spoilers
  3. eeyore Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2001
    star 3
    First, I would like to say anyone who HASN'T read the book does not have an opinion on it; they have a bias based on second hand information. I would just like to say: Please read the book before you make up your mind about it. Thanks :)

    I think the book was okay; nothing spectacular, but it wasn't overly offensive. I'm still not too crazy about Han and Leia's interaction - I think a lot of the time they sound more like squabbling teenagers, and it got old very fast to read "Jaina rolled her eyes as her parents argued AGAIN...", "Han glared at Leia" "Leia threw a sharp glare at Han", etc. I much prefer their interaction in SBS and Allston's books. They sounded like a long-term, deeply affectionate couple back then.

    Han seems a trifle "hen-pecked" - it seems in nearly every argument he backs down to Leia. Tahiri usually comes up with the solutions, we hear Han say to Leia (about an idea Tahiri has) "Why couldn't you think of that, Leia?" Now, I think someone like Leia would just have a touch more experience than Tahiri ;)

  4. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    eeyore said (highlight):
    Tahiri usually comes up with the solutions, we hear Han say to Leia (about an idea Tahiri has) "Why couldn't you think of that, Leia?" Now, I think someone like Leia would just have a touch more experience than Tahiri

    To which I say (highlight):
    In that particular situation Leia was going to talk them out of a situation and Tahiri ignites her lightsaber to a Fian's nostril ;)
  5. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    I really do wish Jacen and Leia would spend more time together though. It's really a wonderful mother-son relationship in SW that I love to read about.

    I'd like to see that too, Caine. I loved the father/son interaction between Han and Jacen in Rebirth, but we've yet to see much between Jacen and his mother. Of all her children, Jacen is the one most like Leia and I think that could make for some interesting interaction and conversations.

    Possible spoilers below

    Eeyore, I agree with you. While the Han and Leia interaction is okay it hasn't been anything really special either. I've yet to finish the book so I'll refrain from saying anymore at the moment. Likewise about the hen-pecked issue. I've only read one scene so far where Han backed down and I thought that was because Leia and Jaina ganged up on him. After I've finished the book maybe I'll have more of an opinion on that matter. As for the book itself, it certainly has not been a page-turner for me. I just don't find the story to be all that interesting.

  6. Obi_Wans_love_child Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2001
    star 4

    I understand where you come with the page turner comment. I believe the book was written to only build things up with a few minor accomplishments along the way. You may have to look at this trilogy of books to see them as page turners.

  7. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    That's probably very true, OWLC. I just hope that the next two books in the series are a little more exciting to read.


    eeyore, I see where you're coming from with the hen-pecked opinion. Han definitely did seem to differ to Leia more then you'd expect him to. I can't believe that Han the father would allow Leia to convince him to leave a battle where his daughters very life was at risk, nor can I believe Leia would have encouraged him to. And I have to admit that by the end of the book I was tired of all their conversations being more along the line of arguments. I hope this trend doesn't continue into the next two books in the series.

  8. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7

    Having read Remnant I do see what a lot of you are getting at, though, I found most of the arguments to be more playful, the more serious ones struck a note of discord.

    In particular Leia getting Han to go to the Koornacht Cluster, hey, I know, let's get Han to ask Leia to pay a visit to the remains of Alderaan, I'm sure you'll understand it's for the greater good. This just did not match Leia as I see the character. I can quite believe the little minx that is Jaina would force her father to go there, oblivious to the pain it causes him but not Leia.

    Talking of whom though, Jaina seemed as childish and macho as ever in this book. Did we ever see Luke swanning around to prove he hadn't 'lost his edge' after ESB? Or Leia being all hard as nails to prove a point with others? Nope, don't recall that. Jaina seems to see any kind of love and affection towards her as a sign of weakness, which is pathetic. She is no longer a teenager, we're told she's an adult but she sure doesn't act it.

    I enjoyed Remnant a lot and I can post a review if you like, it's already posted elsewhere though.

    end spoilers

    Changing tack, who's read Empire 5? Review please particularly regarding Davide Fabri's art.

    Whilst I'm on comics, this week SHOULD see A Valentine's Story come out! I'll be buying Thursday with post to follow!

    Jedi Ben
  9. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    I haven't gotten Empire #5 yet. The last time I checked my local comic book store they hadn't received it and didn't know when they would. I'll have to check again this week. As for the Valentine comic, does it go on sale this week? I was under the impression it doesn't go on sale until February 26. Of course I won't complain if it does go on sale this week. ;)

    Remnant spoilers

    Jedi Ben, I understand completely what you mean about Leia pushing Han to go to the Koornacht Cluster. I thought she came across as very insensitive to him and his desire not to return to the place that holds some very unpleasant memories for him. I would have liked to see her approach the subject with him with a little more sensitivity and understanding. Actually, I think the whole returning to the Koornacht Cluster storyline would have been more interesting and poignant if it have been from Han's POV in the first place.

    And please feel free to post your review here if you like. I'd be interested in knowing what you thought of the book. Overall, I didn't think it was too bad, although it was very slow moving at times. At least it wasn't filled with a lot of graphic violence and torture. One thing I did enjoy were the scenes with Pellaeon. I've come to like and respect that character immensely and hope he turns out to be the trusted ally he appears to have become. I also really enjoyed the Jacen scenes where he's trying his hand at diplomacy. He does appear to be his mother's son.

  10. Ginger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry I haven't been around lately. I don't think that I'll be around much in the near future either. Life and work has been extremely busy for me of late.

    I haven't read FH1, so I have no comment on that book.

    I did put in a pre-order for both Empire 5 and the Valentine Comic from Things from another world, I hope to get both of those two items soon. It's my understanding that the Valentine Comic is coming out on the 12th of this month.

    There is also the ebook, A Forest Apart, that is suppose to be available on February 11. I have purchased that already, but I can't download it until that date.

    And then there's Carrie Fisher's new novel coming in April called 'The Best Awful There is.'

    I also ordered two zines (Bloodstrips and Never Say Die) to be mailed in April or May. Of course we are suppose to get the DGE zine this month also.

    Last but not least, I've pre-ordered Tatooine Ghost.

    Maybe after I get my hands on some new material, I'll have something to talk about again. :)
  11. LadyPadme Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 5

    Sounds like there's going to be a lot of stuff coming out to look forward to, since it seems Remnant isn't fulfilling H/L lovers' demands.

    Would people still recommend reading Remnant, though?
  12. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    Ginger, where did you order A Forest Apart? I checked out Amazon last night and they didn't have it listed.

    As for rather or not I'd recommend reading Remnant, LadyPadme, I guess I'd have to say that depends on what you look for in a SW book. Remnant focuses mostly on the new generation and some other minor characters. Han, Leia and Luke, although they do appear, have small, rather insignificant parts. I found a good portion of the book to be slow moving and un-interesting, but that could just be me. Others may have found it to be a more exciting read then I did. The only thing I can suggest is that you skim the book before hand to see if you think it would appeal to you.

    EDIT: Never mind Ginger, I found A Forest Apart.
  13. LeiaYT1300 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2002
    star 3
    Well, I went to my local comic shop this past weekend to look into the Valentine comic. They are getting it on Wednesday, but they will only hold a copy for one day for me, so I know where I'm going straight after work on Wednesday. :)

    As for Empire #5, I didn't look into it, but I'm thinking I'll ask on Wednesday.

    As for the books, I'm centering on TG only for now, and now that I think on it, I should probably preorder that, too.

    Either way, Wednesday night promises to be a good night. :D
  14. Ginger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 4
    Ginger, where did you order A Forest Apart? I checked out Amazon last night and they didn't have it listed.


    A Forest Apart

    I just noticed that Random House finally has it listed this morning at their site, so you may want to check Amazon again. But I know the site above has it.

    EDIT: I tried my own link and didn't work. Use the search feature on the page to find A Forest Apart.

    Second EDIT: oops, I just saw your EDIT Sologal.
  15. Ginger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 4
    Before this thread gets locked, I would like to say a fond farewell in case I don't get another chance to. I also would like to thank everyone who took part in this great adventure of ours. I especially thank CMinor for getting the ball rolling.

    A final curtain call involves everyone from the teasers, the socks, the mods policing, the throlls, the VIPs, and most of all the supporters, and here they are; Take a bow everyone.

    1. A_Karenda
    2. accrispin
    3. Adi_Gallia_9
    4. Aleja
    5. Anakin SkySolo
    6. Anakin1607
    7. Apophis
    8. Ariel
    9. AsyrHandor
    10. AthyraFire
    11. AT-ST_DRIVER
    12. Aunechah Skywalker
    13. AurraMouse
    14. Barnsthefatjedi
    15. Beatlebum
    16. Birkendoc
    17. black_saber
    18. Booster-1986
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    20. Bravo
    21. Bria
    22. C_Minor
    23. Caine
    24. Candles
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    30. Chrissdude10
    31. CorellianBlue
    32. Corran_rouge9
    33. Corran9
    34. Crystal417
    35. DaJames2
    36. DantannaSkywalker
    37. DantSolo
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    46. Darth_Wahl
    47. DarthBinksApocalpyse
    48. DarthBobbalot
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    50. darth-jar
    51. DarthSpade
    52. DemonicJedi
    53. Devi
    54. dizfactor
    55. Doo-Kimmee
    56. dp4m
    57. DropsofJupiter
    58. Durron001
    59. DuRRoN579
    60. Ebonn101
    61. Eeyore
    62. elainecunningham
    63. Elektra
    64. Et Cetera
    65. Exar-tull
    66. excellence
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    68. FlyingSolo
    69. forceaddict
    70. Fortherea
    71. Freyja
    72. Fuschia
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    74. Genghis12
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    76. Ginger/Rainier
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    153. Mara-Jade-Skywalker
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    165. Motterman
    166. MrNomAnor
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    195. RASalvatore
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    204. russelguppy
    205. Sabrecmc
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  16. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Chyren posted in here and I MISSED it!?!?
  17. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Why would this thread get locked? WE're back on-topic with Remnant and it's likely to stay that way with Empire 5 & ^, Valentine Story & Tattooine Ghost all coming out.

    It isn't as if this thread is a battleground, I'd say the Mods have bigger fish to fry than us bunch.



    there is a review of A Valentine's Story. THe author isn't a SW fan nor it follows H & L Fan, but his review is fair and honest, he declares at the start he never was a devotee of Han & Leia's romance and saw it as evidence of Lucas' scripting, but he also says Winick's story resolves things well and Chadwick provides very good art, so as I say, it is a honest and fair review.

    Jedi Ben
  18. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Ben -- the thread is getting locked at 8600 and restarted, not locked forever... :)
  19. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    Wow, I can't believe we're coming up on that magic number.

    Ginger, thanks for compiling that list.

    And thanks, Jedi Ben, for the H/L Valentine review news. I'll be sure to check it out when I have more time.
  20. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 7
    Ah, it's occurred to me at several hundred pages that maybe it's simply to do with data size as opposed to any offence as such.

    Thanks 4dpm for clearing that up.

    The thread must restart!

    So see you all on the new version!

    Ginger, I appreciate the thanks.

    Jedi Ben
  21. Tara Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2002
    star 3
    Yes I have been very bad in neglecting this thread lately due to a busy schedule lately...I am sorry and humbly repent...

    Awww *sniff* I'll miss you LFL thread... it's like an old friend... :(

    I looked at FH:R in the bookstore, but I didn't see anything that interested me too much to buy it....From what I saw, Han and Leia seemed out of character, Leia seemed more like her TAB/COPL out of character self with her snobby, superior behaviour to Han...

    Can't wait for the upcoming Empire, Valentine's Comic, and Tatooine Ghost though. My comic shop is very late in getting things in, so it might be a while before I can comment though. Let's hope there's just as much good material for 2004 :)

    Chyren posted here but I think it was to tell us that our campaign was useless, would never work and to shut up... ;)

    Thanks so much for the list Ginger, I can't believe you did all that work! (PS - I was Yanksfanhasnolife though :D)

    And finally,

    More Han and Leia in the EU ;)


  22. Ginger Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2001
    star 4
    Chyren was very rude. He told us we were wasting our time and to get lost, not exactly in those words but it was kinda funny.

    He He, thanks for clearing up my mistake, Tara.

    I see that Tara got in one last act of defiance in.

    Hopefully too late for anyone to dispute my opinions:

    Han and Leia ROCK!!!!

    Han and Leia RULE!!!

    Han and Leia are the GREATEST Star Wars Couple EVER!!!!

    Han and Leia are the HOTTEST Star Wars Couple EVER!!!

    Han and Leia have FANTASTIC CHEMISTRY together!!!

    Let's have more mush for Han and Leia in the EU!!!!!

    Long Live Han and Leia's Love. [face_love]
  23. Skylark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2002
    star 4
    Whoa....this thread is getting locked? but it's like freaking classic!!!! :mad:

    Whoa....I was thanked??? Sweet! :D
  24. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    The penultimate post...

    This is such a great thread. Thank you for mentioning me on your list, Ginger!
  25. Sologal Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 4
    Tara is yanksfanhasnolife? :eek: I would never had guessed that. Good one Tara, you had me fooled.

    I ordered my copy of A Forest Apart this evening. I'll have that to look forward to tomorrow. Maybe I should hope for a snow day. ;) Oh, that's right, universities don't close because of snow unless it happens to be a blizzard. So much for that idea.

    There is one thing I do want to mention. I recently read over at TOS in the VIP thread where Sue Rostoni commented that they have yet to decide on where to go in the timeline after the NJO is finished. They are apparently waiting until a new contract is worked out before making that decision. Anyway, there are a number of era's they are considering. I just want to encourage Han and Leia fans, if you have time, to write to Lucasfilm to make suggestions as to what timeframe you'd like to see covered. Some of the periods mentioned were the years between Ep 3 and 4, the classic era, the NR era and post NJO.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to say "Long live Han and Leia's romance in the EU".
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