To lit forum,Why you all dising the chiss!

Well said GA_Pellaeon, I agree with every bit of what you said. I would also like to clear up something about the Ssi-ruuvi forces by taking a sentence from gamer #5.

"In times of crisis, like the recent repulsion of Ssi-ruuvi forces, the CEDF bolsters its ranks by drawing upon nearby colonial Phalanxes."

REPULSION is the key word here. Some people would also wonder why the New Republic had sent a fleet all the way to there home world. My GUESS is that they were going to finish off what was left of the Ssi_ruuvi forces, the chiss simply beat them to it. It's a very simple concept, take out your enemy while you can or allow them to become powerful and start the whole thing over again.

another thing I noticed is that someone was quoting me. Mastage I will tell you know that arguments compared to the real world are simply ignored by me. Also the last part of one of my posts was this "They actually think before they do something"

That is all for know, I will only post on this topic again if I see a mistake again.

 

we cant make they assumsion their racist because we dont know much about them.
They are not an enemy driven by rage but mearly by order. I think Gamer 5 was wrong to give out that info because in my world Zahn owns the chiss and will do what he likes with em.
We still do not know about these other barbaric species in the UR so how can we all judge one by the way they act to outsiders.

Racism is racism regardless of the motivation. And regardless of your personaly feelings about Zahn and the Chiss, once they were published they became the property of LFL to do with as they please, and any other author writing for LFL is perfectly within their rights to expand the Chiss any way they want, and if that writing is published then it's just as official as what Zahn originally wrote if it doesn't contradict it.

Think about it, they are very private, would you like to share all your secrets with the galaxy.

Nobody's asking them to share all their secrets, but joining a galactic COMMUNITY requires that, even if they keep to themselves for the most part, they do COMMUNIcate with the other members of the community.

Keep in mind they are a powerful people(thus shown by deafeting the Ssi-ruuk) and could be a vital allie or an unstopable enemy.

We don't know this. A NR fleet was on its way to mop up the Ssi-ruuk anyway, it's just that the Chiss (has it been confirmed as the chiss?) hit them first. They could be helpful, granted, if they'd stow their holier-than-thou, we're-too-good-to-care attitudes. I don't think they'd be an unstoppable enemy, though, considering that if they engaged the NR they'd be fighting a two-front war, and their little empire or whatever cannot be the size of the NR. However, why would they suddenly become enemies? They've been content to keep to themselves for however long...

I think the main reason people like them isent because their mysteriouse, its because weve never seen a people who could change the galaxy eaither way they chose. Their a different kind of enemy, not bloodthirsty, not power hungry, but more of an enemy that feels they can save the galaxy.

Uhhh...but they're not an enemy. They're not bloodthirst or powerhungry, that's right, they'renot out for conquest at all. They're just sitting in their own part of space keeping outsiders out.

Just remember either way they will be in the NJO and have many secrets new and old.

Are you privy to some info that hasn't been leaked to the general public yet?

 

Give me a break people! It's fiction! So the Chiss are a racist species, big deal. It's fiction! It's not like they are going to jump off the pages and start goosestepping up and down the street. Ugh, I don't know why this got me worked up, when i'm usually the one who tries to not take any of this all that seriously. Sorry for the outburst.

 

Mastage, For one we dont neccisarily know about the size of the ssi-ruuk when the chiss hit them.
Two, We dont know who else inhabits the outer rim so we cant be quick on all assumtions.
Three,They are certainly not an allie to the NR. Maybe only the Thrawn Phlenx but the rest of the chiss are not.
And lastl, this comparing with Natzis is getting out of hand, Many species hold themselves higher than other species, thats just how the galaxy works.

P.s. I JUST BELIVE they will be in the NJO. I think the bvook VotF set it all up.

 

Wow, this looks like a violent thread!
I just would like to add that Spiker from Big Gizz's swoop gang from the shadows of the empire comic series is undoubtably a Chiss as seen in both The Star Wars Galaxy issue 13 and Star Wars Tales issue 4. And wether he is a defect or shunned by the other Chiss he shows lighter emotions and tolerance to an extent.

 

I think spiker has some kind of mental problem.

 

What was so racist about the Chiss?

The Chiss from what I've seen have proven to be a culture that values logic over emotions and simply are isolationistic because they don't want to get involved in what they consider against their religeon/philosophy.

What your describing as their personality seems little different than Tolkiens Elves!

Are they racist Nazis?

What they did to the Ssriruuk was practicallty eradicate the military capacity of a race which controlled an entire arm of the galaxy and had proved willing to murder EVERY SINGLE OTHER RACE in the galaxy Borg style.

The Chiss are not a perfect culture but let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

Charlamange speaks wisdom.

 

Hmm.....when was the last time Thrawn was in a fist fight? I seem to be missing it somewhere.....

 

Also, I hate name dropping especially on a SW board, but.....you can thank Tim Zahn for ripping off Vulcans. Way to go Tim!

EDIT: "The Chiss from what I've seen have proven to be a culture that values logic over emotions"

 

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In Chissam
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keep hearing there really not tyhat powerful, and there just blue skined freaks. Hello could some stupid blue-skinned freaks deafet the massive army of the Ssi-ruuk? Dont think so!

Your argument is fallacious. You have no data concerning the size of the Ssi-ruuvi military and naval forces, yet you assume that the Chiss must have incredible military and naval assets in order to defeat them. This is not so, due to two separate points:

Point the first: The Alliance of Free Planets formed an invasion task force with ?a dozen Nebulon-B frigates and smaller vessels at their disposal? (The Essential Chronology, 65) to enter Ssi-ruuvi space, flagged by the modified Sibwarra. This minor task force, which pales before such mighty Imperial formations such as the dreaded Death Squadron, was obviously considered to be sufficient by the Alliance to deal with the Ssi-Ruuvi threat.

Point the second: You have no proof that the Chiss were actually the forces responsible for the decimation of the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium. The only concrete datum is that ?another force from deep in the Unknown Regions had already attacked the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium on the opposite front, leaving devastation in their wake? (The Essential Chronology, 65---66).

Certainly, the New Republic Historical Council continues to state that ?recent interpretations of the data have suggested that the attackers were the Chiss, the blue-skinned humanoid race of which Imperial Grand Admiral Thrawn was a member.? Notice, however, that the Historical Council says ?have suggested.?

Now, consider this suggestion again, taking into account the additional evidence from Gamer #5:

The Chiss hyperdrive, while not as efficient as the latest model from Corellian Engineering Corporation, is nonetheless competent and capable for traversing the distances of their territory.

...

Modern Chiss spacecraft use this anchor-point network for hyperspace travel within Chiss space. Chiss vessels thus lack navicomputers and are unable to safely travel beyond the Chiss borders.

How interesting! It seems that the Chiss are unable to leave their own territory. Such a naval is incapable of attacking the Ssi-ruuvi star cluster. The ?recent interpretations? of the Historical Council were premature; the Chiss Expansionary Defence Fleet is incompetent to have been the attacking force which so thoroughly defeated the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium.

Certainly, the Chiss undertook a ?recent repulsion of Ssi-ruuvi forces,? but note the words---a repulsion. The Chiss can only defeat those foreign enemies which encroach in their territory; no Chiss vessel other than the clawcraft is known to have a navicomputer. Thus, unless you should suggest that the clawcraft defeated the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium, the Chiss are incompetent to have done so.

In fact, according to Gamer #5, the Chiss ?do not have a starship larger than an escort frigate (about 300 meters in length).? Not only is the Chiss navy unable to leave its territory, but its shipbuilding capacity is vastly below galactic standard. Not only are the Chiss inferior in terms of strategic and logistical capacity, but the galaxy proper is also vastly superior in terms of engineering capability.

Well the humans in the galaxy are suppose to be the superiror beings right? Well the Chiss are superiror to humans. They live longer, have greater physical strength, can see better in the dark, have greater minds, and don't let emotions get in the way of what must be done.

Nay, nay, a thousand times, nay!

Homo sapiens is by no means the superior species. No sentient species is inherently superior to another. By what standard do you judge the Chiss, that they are so ?superior? to their fellow humans (for the Chiss are indeed nothing more than a race of humans)? You seem to admire their qualities---but do not be deceived. A Chiss is not ?inherently? more intelligent or

 

Good one, tears. It's so refreshing to see people go back to the source and use the materiel to make a lucid argument.

 

Well someone said the Chiss are physically strong, I've never seen Thrawn or a Chiss in a fist fight. This true? Also the night vision thingy. that true too? Im not a Chiss fan, .

 

I believe the NJO supercedes the Gamer and Chiss Claw Craft seem to be superior to the average fighter enough that a TIE defender style vehicle is equivalent or the Chiss would be flying them in Fel's squadron.

As for the Chiss being vastly below galactic standard realize that their hyperdrive is equal to a thousand thousand races working for 25,000 YEARS (!!!) to achieve this level of technology.

The fact only recently have they surpassed them is astonishing, as for their only craft being frigate size also read "Visions of the Future" with the 300 meter craft defeating the Emperor's task force to attack the Jedi presumably VSD (arguements that this is oversized for such an encounter should realize that the Emperor likely would symbolically want to turn as many captains into Jedi killers as possible and also a suitable honor gaurd for kinman Domina)

The Chiss as a race thus seem to be amazingly powerful intellects by working in their isolation alone even if like China that has finally caught up to them.

I doubt again they are racist so much as afraid....Thrawn said there were many threats in the Unknown Regions and the Vong prove him right.

The son of Baron Fel I think should be distrusted frankly given again the Empire is unrepetedly EVIL organization.

As for the Ssiruuk's size I think the Alliance vastly underestimated them given that they had the entechment capacities to enslave five billion people on Bakura or so.
Also the mammoth size they possess....

My guess is it was meant as a strike force against a single race but the Alliance encountered isntead a Vast Star Empire that they charted and discovered devastated world after devastated world.

 

What if the Ssi-ruuk were taken out by the YV? Hmm.....?

 

I believe the NJO supercedes the Gamer and Chiss Claw Craft seem to be superior to the average fighter enough that a TIE defender style vehicle is equivalent or the Chiss would be flying them in Fel's squadron.

The New Jedi Order does nothing of the sort. Star Wars Gamer is on equal ground, and both materials are equally valid. We strongly recommend that you study current Lucasfilm policy on canon and continuity, dear Sir.

Ah, you assume much, and can prove little.

Have you taken into consideration that the clawcraft is not a Chiss technology, but rather a hybrid of Imperial and Chiss technologies?

Have you taken into consideration that the production of TIE Defenders requires a specialised production platform, as seen in TIE Fighter? What proof have you to suggest that the Chiss Household Phalanx associated with the deserters in the Hand of Thrawn have the capacity to produce TIE Defenders?

As for the Chiss being vastly below galactic standard realize that their hyperdrive is equal to a thousand thousand races working for 25,000 YEARS (!!!) to achieve this level of technology.

This is no excuse. The Chiss are so grossly incompetent in their hyperphysics as to fail to equip their vessels with navigational computers. There are not known to be any Chiss vessels, outside the Hand of Thrawn, capable of leaving the Chiss colonial empire.

The fact only recently have they surpassed them is astonishing, as for their only craft being frigate size also read "Visions of the Future" with the 300 meter craft defeating the Emperor's task force to attack the Jedi presumably VSD (arguements that this is oversized for such an encounter should realize that the Emperor likely would symbolically want to turn as many captains into Jedi killers as possible and also a suitable honor gaurd for kinman Domina).

Certainly not! A Victory Star Destroyer would be utterly unsuitable for such a purpose---one of the brand new battlecruisers designed to be the signature vessels of the fleet, and you think one could simply vanish suddenly to be sent on a political errand to eliminate Jedi? Such a thing could hardly ?scape detection.

The Emperor had not been crowned yet (Gamer #5 specifically says that the task force was dispatched by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine), and the forces would be using inferior Republican warships---if true warships at all. Forget not, dear Sir, that the flotilla was under the command of a political aide, not an actual fleet commander. Mitty can defeat an enemy fleet commanded by a page. Wow.

The Chiss as a race thus seem to be amazingly powerful intellects by working in their isolation alone even if like China that has finally caught up to them.

Please, justify this statement. Wherefore do the Chiss seem to be so intellectually prodigious? In what manner have they demonstrated themselves to be genii, every one?

I doubt again they are racist so much as afraid....Thrawn said there were many threats in the Unknown Regions and the Vong prove him right.

Afraid? Don?t be ridiculous.

A direct quote from Gamer #5:

Records gathered aboard the Star Destroyer Chimaera demonstrate that Chiss standards differ when a crime or egregious error is committed by a non-Chiss. After a regrettable failure of a bridge crewman aboard his ship, the infamous Chiss Grand Admiral Thrawn ordered his Noghri enforcer to kill an incompetent officer. Had the offending party or the intended recipients of the lesson been a fellow Chiss, Thrawn would have likely been less overt.

And again:

Chiss are extremely loyal to their own kind and look down upon other aliens as barbaric and immature. Only by proving that he adheres to Chiss disciplines can a non-Chiss gain the loyalty and respect of the cerulean-skinned people.

A third time:

Despite their growing borders, the Chiss still

 

Well tears it's very apparent that you things only your way. You put "Notice, however, that the Historical Council says "have suggested."

Well in gamer #5 it says "It's believed that the Chiss do not have a starship larger than a Escort Frigate (about 300 meters in length.)"

the key word here is BELIEVED. We do not truly know whether or not they have bigger ships or not. Tears you're just someone who sees things his way. Your wasting all of our time with all of these half-truths and LIES.

You should also notice that I'm careful when I put something down. For example when I put that question mark at then end of sentence when I was trying to figure out whether or not humans are the superior species or not. I never said they were superior I just didn't so there for I put the question mark. Now when and if you come back make sure to get your facts straight.

 

Know what I say to this? Who cares?! There's naturally gonna be those who hate the Chiss such as myself, and those who are diehard fans like Chissdude. It doesn't matter what their naval strength is. The question is "Why are you dissing the chiss?!" not "Let's compare Chiss naval strength." Sheesh....I wouldn't mind the Chiss and those who are diehards having a chip in their ego, but c'mon, this is a semantics argument. Sheesh....

 

Well tears it's very apparent that you things only your way. You put "Notice, however, that the Historical Council says "have suggested."

Well in gamer #5 it says "It's believed that the Chiss do not have a starship larger than a Escort Frigate (about 300 meters in length.)"

Do you know the difference between the narration of a Historical Council and an omniscient third-person narrator from without the story? That is the difference between the New Republic Historical Council saying ?have suggested? and the article in Gamer #5 saying ?it is believed.?

The difference is that the Gamer reference is a third-person omniscient narrator stating that the Chiss do not have ships larger than an escort frigate, in a slightly less than absolute fashion. It does not in any way prove that there are ships larger; the statement in itself is evidence (not conclusive, certainly) to the effect that the Chiss do not have larger ships.

the key word here is BELIEVED. We do not truly know whether or not they have bigger ships or not. Tears you're just someone who sees things his way. Your wasting all of our time with all of these half-truths and LIES.

Sirrah, give place.

Ad hominem tactics do not suit you; we suggest that you refrain from them.

Half-truths? Lies? Prove these allegations, or apologise for having sullied our honour with your baseless accusations.

[blockquete]You should also notice that I'm careful when I put something down. For example when I put that question mark at then end of sentence when I was trying to figure out whether or not humans are the superior species or not. I never said they were superior I just didn't so there for I put the question mark. Now when and if you come back make sure to get your facts straight[/blockquote]

There is no question of whether or not humans are a superior race. The answer is absolutely and without question ?No.? You proceeded to state that the Chiss were superior to humans, a statement which is self-contradictory and racially bigoted---(a.) Chiss are human, absurd contrary statements notwithstanding; and (b.) there is no such thing as a superior race.

The sentence?Well the humans in the galaxy are suppose to be the superiror beings right?? in addition to being grammatically flawed, is not a well-phrased interrogative; it gives the impression of a reiteration of fact, rather than an attempt to clarify matters.

You proceeded, then, to state, in a declarative fashion, that the Chiss are superior. There can be no room for semantics in that statement---you clearly stated that the Chiss are superior to humans. This is an inherently bigoted statement.

 

That was the most absurdly sad argument I've ever seen in my entire life.

Hyperdrive:

My friend why exactly would the Chiss WANT advanced navicomputer technology when it is openly stated that they have no desire to leave their space?

It is entirely possible that the Chiss Empire once possesed the technology, built much larger ships, explored the universe and then VOLENTARILY closed their borders and removed such things from their systems.

Simply put a race that wants to be left in peace the idea that they would need or want starcharts to encourage the young and bold to go off "and seek out new life, new civilizations" is a very bad idea.

Worse when you realize that the Chiss providing they know of the Galaxy at large (a large chance they did not as Thrawn knew Basic only through smugglers) it is quite likely that the Chiss believe isolation grants autonomity.

A race known to the galaxy at large is sought out.

Thus the Chiss could equal and exceed the Galactic standard but remain extremely "primative" in one area by differing goals. By defeating the Ssriruuk who were at least equal to Bakura's light cruiser fleet I think the Chiss proved themselves quite capable.

Xenophobia

Your describing nothing!

What your describing could very well be used to describe Elves to humans (who have reason to feel superior-they are) and Vulcans to humans (they keep it hidden well) and imaturity among races isn't a bigoted idea it is a sensible one.

How would you feel in the presence of a 10th century Viking who kills a young woman with his father? Believes that plunder, rape, and the like are honorable professions?

I'd feel very superior and mature.

Provided I couldn't minister to them then I'd want as little to do with them also as possible.

Execution:

Thrawn executed a incompetant imperial officer because it was expected on an Imperial starship and permissable. Quite simply the "superior" culture of the Empire held life to be cheap.

Darth Vader, Harcov, Tarkin, Tremayne, Palpatine, Soonitor Fel (a man guilty of attempted genocide at Nar Shadaa), Isard, Tavira...the list goes on and on that in the Empire men with low moral scruples and rampant ambition were promoted over those who were moderate or moral.

Jedi Knight The Book points out that religion could get one removed from command at least in some cases.

It doesn't make Thrawn any less of a scumbag for the murder but he was acting in accordance to the Imperial's culture not his own with the execution. A Chiss would probably be like the United States in saying thousands of enemy causalties are acceptable but not one US.

Jagged Fel:

No offense my friend but what standards can you exactly hold a man to who is of a different species and has no contact of his own with his own culture? I'm not saying racism didn't exist or xenophobia but that really you in a military unit cannot create standards for another race or make exceptions.

The Citadel certainly made itself shameful with it's treatment of it's lone female cadet but the current 100 enrolled are better for treating them no better no worse, how the Citadel earned it's reputation.

Clawcraft and Imperial Technology:

It is indicated if not upfront stated in Visions of the Future that the Chiss created the Fortress that the Hand of Thrawn dwells in...if you'll notice the Fortress is able to apparently withstand extreme weapons technology and is not updated with a Garrison (Thrawn as a grand admiral would have access to this)...

Also Talon Karrde used a similar fortress to manage his Smuggler's alliance meeting, so similar Zahn was subtly but out right saying the Chiss had once been far deeper into Galatic territory....but withdrew for some reason.

Thrawn as a Grand Admiral certainly knows the value also of worthy tech and it's indicated that the kattana fleet was not manned all by clones (a person did logistics and at 200 dreadnoughts rounded it would take 400,000 clones to man all the slave rigs minus tech) but instead likely thrawn even at 30,000 clones 3 weeks inst

 

*shakes head in disgust* This is starting to get redundant.

 

Im going to have to agree with Fire_Ice_Death, we have done what we can to convince each other in what we believe. We can argue for an entire year and we won't change each others minds. So I'll just say one more thing, you believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to belive.

All we can do now is wait for more proof on both sides of the arguement and see what happens.

 

They stick out like sore thumbs across the galaxy.
I can imagine it now:

Some Dude: I want you to hunt down this guy. I don't need to give you his name, you couldn't miss him if you were blind. He's bright blue and has glowing red eyes, is a racists and hates everyone who doesn't belong to his species.
Boba Fett: *evil chuckle*

 

My friend why exactly would the Chiss WANT advanced navicomputer technology when it is openly stated that they have no desire to leave their space?

You missed the entire point.

The point is not why the Chiss failed to create navigational computers, merely that they have, and their craft are strategically and logistically incompetent to carry out operations without their colonial empire.

It is entirely possible that the Chiss Empire once possesed the technology, built much larger ships, explored the universe and then VOLENTARILY closed their borders and removed such things from their systems.

Unsubstantiated fantasy.

Gamer #5 indicates that the Chiss installed their navigation buoy network prior to venturing from Csilla. They have never had navigational computers.

Simply put a race that wants to be left in peace the idea that they would need or want starcharts to encourage the young and bold to go off "and seek out new life, new civilizations" is a very bad idea.

The Chiss do not desire to be left in peace; they desire to ?impose order on what they see and barbaric region? (Schwartz, 108). The Chiss have a ?cultured contempt for other species? (Schwartz, 109) and the young ?mature much faster than Humans? (Scwhartz, 108). The reason you suggested is therefore not true; the Chiss needn?t worry about the young and the restless, as their regimented police-state society quickly removes any such unwanted impulse as curiosity.

Worse when you realize that the Chiss providing they know of the Galaxy at large (a large chance they did not as Thrawn knew Basic only through smugglers) it is quite likely that the Chiss believe isolation grants autonomity.

The Chiss did not chose to be isolated on Csilla, they are simply the descendents of a colonisation effort, an effort which happened to set down on a barren ice world. Autonomy does not figure into their isolation.

Thus the Chiss could equal and exceed the Galactic standard but remain extremely "primative" in one area by differing goals. By defeating the Ssriruuk who were at least equal to Bakura's light cruiser fleet I think the Chiss proved themselves quite capable.

No. Prove that the Chiss are capable of producing an equivalent or superior navigational computer. Demonstrate this which you are stating as fact, when it is little more than unsubstantiated hypothesis.

You neglect that the Chiss did not in fact destroy the Ssi-ruuk. The Chiss Expansionary Defence Fleet repulsed the Ssi-ruuvi invasion force, but as the Chiss are unable to leave their territory, it was not the Chiss that destroyed the Ssi-ruuvi Imperium.

What your describing could very well be used to describe Elves to humans (who have reason to feel superior-they are) and Vulcans to humans (they keep it hidden well) and imaturity among races isn't a bigoted idea it is a sensible one.

Are you arguing that because Elves and Vulcans are also racist, that is is somehow acceptable for the Chiss to be so? The Chiss are literally raised to look down on other races, as sub-Chiss. Only by being raised as a Chiss is one ?worthy? of respect in their glowing eyes.

How would you feel in the presence of a 10th century Viking who kills a young woman with his father? Believes that plunder, rape, and the like are honorable professions?

The Chiss are not simply contemptuous of the criminals of other societies, they are contemptuous of all other societies.

This is not analogous to feeling disgust for a Viking raider (who was even by the standards of the time considered to be barbaric). This is analogous to a Wehrmacht officer being told that the Poles are all barbaric Slavic subhumans because they?re not Germans.

Is that what you consider a sensible mindset? If something is not like you, it is automatically inferior and barbaric? If something is no

 

As Tears O' Palps just said, all thee who worship thy Clawcraft and Imperial/Chiss Fighter, remember that were it not for the glorious Empire, they would just be blue skinned humanoids noone knew or cared about. Oh yeah, and those fighters wouldn't have been developed due to lack of Chiss. Had the Empire not existed, they couldn't be developed due to lack of TIEs. Do remember that another name for the Clawcraft is the TIE Claw, and the Imperial/Chiss Fighter, well, that doesn't need explaining at all.
The Chiss are a bit arrogant, but they're cool. If they'd be more open to the rest of the universe, maybe they'd be common, and you wouldn't be surprised to see a Chiss wandering around. Thrawn is the only reason the Chiss got credit, anyway. If Thrawn hadn't appeared, people would look upon that Spiker guy as the standard Chiss. Man oh man, that would screw their image. Also, Palps wouldn't have given a damn about them had Thrawn not appeared. And if stupid Rukh from stupid Honoghr and his stupid Noghri existence hadn't plunged his stupid knife through Thrawn's stupid chest then the stupid NR/Empire wouldn't have allowed the stupid YV to gain any stupid space. And stupid Pellaeon's stupid be nice approach to the stupid NR is just...stupid

Sorry with my obsession with 'stupid'. In actual fact, Pellaeon is awesome, and Thrawn's chest posesses a very high IQ.