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Discussion To Sith or not to Sith? -NSA Edition

Discussion in 'Star Wars: New Films - No Spoilers Allowed' started by Legacy Jedi Endordude, Aug 10, 2013.

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Should the Sith return in Episode VII

YES! Once more the Sith will rule the Galaxy! 33 vote(s) 54.1%
NO! He is the chosen one. He will bring balance. 28 vote(s) 45.9%
  1. Loupgarou Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    First, force ghosts are like Buddha to me;putting off enlightenment to guide others to the same. You can't be afraid of death to be one, and all Sith are afraid of death in some capacity. A Sith is much more likely to keep their body alive unnaturally for thousands of years than be able to be a force ghost.

    And on the main matter, I'm certain they'll use the term Sith again, but I highly doubt they'll mention the prophecy. Sith just means dark side user to most movie-goers, and since for the most part the jedi are ignorant of Sith ways, it's unlikely greater knowledge would reach Luke before episode 7. Due to this, if he calls a new dark side user a Sith, it'd make sense, because to him that's all they are.
    The prophecy did destroy the Sith in my opinion, but not evil itself, and new people will be tempted to the dark side. They may even attempt to follow old Sith traditions, but since all Sith at the time were destroyed, I don't think this invalidates the prophecy.
  2. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 5
    I would rather have Maul than Sidious...at least he wasn't incinerated.
  3. Phoenix267 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2014
    I would love to see the Sith return to the big screen. Or at least some version of dark Jedi. That would be cool to see both the light and dark side competing against each other. Destined to be rivals for eternity.
  4. TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2013
    star 3
    depending on the time frame of the films it could make sense for there to be new "Sith", "Neo-Sith" if you will. They wouldn't be true Sith in the sense that they could trace their lineage back to the original Sith order, but as time passes it becomes more and more likely that a force sensitive person will stumble upon Sith artifacts and teachings, and will try to revive the order. In such a case it isn't likely that such persons would reveal themselves within the lifetimes of anyone alive during or immediately after Episode 6 as people would easily spot them for who they are. It, although, wouldn't be unlikely for impostures to pop-up. The problem with them though is that they would tend to be more the type that just thinks it would be cool to be a Sith, but don't really know anything substantial about the order and most likely would not be very adept as a force user or with a lightsaber.
  5. Julius Vernon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I have to say I am surprised at how close the voting is on this.

    I think Sith rise again. The dark side of the Force cannot be removed from existence. The Sith are merely a dogmatic order of dark side Force users. I think once a dark side Force user revisits the rites, behaviors, and oaths of the Sith we see Sith again.

    I don't see this as a contradiction to the Chosen One philosophy. I don't think the philosophy said that the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force and that that balance would never be disturbed again.
  6. That Bad Huh Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    I really hope we don't see Sith in the ST. The whole Sith storyline was wrapped up, with a bow, when Darth Vader tossed the Emperor down the shaft. He killed both Sith in the process, thereby breaking the cycle. I really, really hope they don't go with any kind of "Vader had a secret apprentice" stuff or "what you didn't know was that aaaaactually..."

    I'd like to see the sequels deal with more plausible threats to the New Republic -- remnants of the Empire, rogue planets, crime syndicates in the Outer Rim and other uncontrolled areas; maybe even some internal strife between the political architects of the new government and the military leaders -- and the upstart Jedi Order, perhaps.
    Last edited by That Bad Huh, Jun 3, 2014
    El Jedi Colombiano and kane1138 like this.
  7. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 5
    Then, if it isn't a Sith, then I hope Von Sydow is one of the Order 66 survivors long thought dead. And sort of like Dooku before him, this old Jedi Master has returned from hiding in hopes of restoring a new Jedi Order in his own image — an image that would instill fear into any new government that wants to control it.

    If the film is to be called [removed] (which I love, by the way), then perhaps a strict and controlling Jedi Order, that hopes to govern the Galaxy this time, is what this title implies. Maybe this would also be reminiscent of how another Force using sect (the Sith, or other evil Force using groups) had once controlled and instilled fear in the core systems before. And maybe this is something that has repeated so many times in the past that the beings of the Galaxy had always remembered and feared that it again would return.

    Mod edit: Removed rumored title. This is the No Spoilers forum.
    Last edited by EHT, Jun 9, 2014
  8. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    @DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR : Sorry for the delay, but please note that I edited your post above for putting the rumored title in it. That's something for the SA forum, not here... that could be considered a spoiler. Please be more careful going forward.

    All: Please keep in mind that posting of spoilers in the NSA forum can result in loss of posting privileges in the NSA forum (for a week for starters, and possibly permanently for major or repeat infractions, which could also result in temporary bans too).
  9. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 5
    The title is considered a spoiler? Wow.
    Last edited by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Jun 10, 2014
  10. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    The rumored title could be considered a potential spoiler. Once a title has been officially announced, that's different.
    Revious Nugo likes this.
  11. Lord Miggler Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2013
    star 2
    I think its possible that the galaxy will be split in to 3 or 4 different factions, the Empire remnants being one of them, the Alliance etc as others, lets not forget that the galaxy was in a state of civil war before Palpatines Empire seized control from the inside, there will be a lot of systems not so keen on the idea of a new republic and possibly some still loyal to the Empire hence why they survived. The galaxy as a whole struggling to keep an uneasy peace, due to this I think the lines between dark and light, good and evil will be more blurred and Luke and his few Jedi are either willingly or forcefully made to operate in the Outer-rim.

    As far as the baddie it's hard to say they could go in numerous different directions but it would be very hard to bring the Sith back into play without it feeling a bit contrived, the Sith died with Palpatine and Vader.
    TheOneX_Eleazar likes this.
  12. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 5
    Ever since Revenge of the Sith came out and knowing what that title implies, the average moviegoer won't think there's a difference, now. If they see a Force user with a lightsaber doing good, they'll think Jedi. If they see an evil dude, with black robes and a red lightsaber, I can't imagine anyone would think he or she is not a Sith. At least not the average moviegoer, that is.
    Revious Nugo likes this.
  13. DarthWilliams Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2008
    star 4
    Yes, Sith. I'm still clinging to my theory that Luke is actually the chosen one so still has some work to do on that front.

    But, at the end of the day, "Sith" always felt really arbitrary to me, just a name. If there's a Dark Side user who's just pure evil, what really separates that being from a Sith anyway?
    Revious Nugo likes this.
  14. Big Bad Yoda Daddy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2000
    star 4
    I never took "bring balance to the Force" to mean "eradicate the Sith." That's what the Jedi were hoping for, but that's not very balanced, is it? I always took it to mean that Anakin fulfilled his destiny by giving both sides a clean start. The Sith were mired in all kinds of secrecy and backstabbing rules, and the Jedi had become arrogant and couldn't smell the head Darth when three Jedi Council members sat across the table from him.
  15. El Jedi Colombiano Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2013
    star 4
    I've been one of the strongest proponents against the Sith. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen, but I sincerely hope that if our villain has to fight with a lightsaber, that he does so but has other distinguishing qualities from those of the Sith. Different force powers, and such.
  16. DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2003
    star 4
    I couldn't vote on this one. I go back and forth. Part of me likes the idea that Anakin's efforts weren't in vain, and that we should have something fresh and new as the antagonist.

    But then, i sometimes feel like (just like evil in our real world,) there will ALWAYS be Sith-they may come and go over time, but there can be no light without darkness, etc.

    I wouldn't mind if there was some twist that the prophecy infact WAS misread (as Yoda suspected,) and the Force will be brought back into balance perhaps by Luke, the "other" Son of the Suns. It would be nice to see the prophecy play out in that way in the ST...
    Last edited by DARTH_BELO, Apr 11, 2015
  17. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 5
    Darth Plagueis - get around the Prophecy by having him actually be dead before the ST, only to have a contingency in place to bring himself back to life. Or something like that (preferably with Plagueis). And don't have Plagueis adhere to the Rule of Two - that way Anakin's accomplishment of defeating the Rule of Two Sith remains intact.

    I know it's Legends, but in the Darth Plagueis novel, he wants to dump the Rule of Two and make a new type of Sith. I liked that idea and think it would be a good way to go - Plagueis got around the Prophecy then, and no longer view himself as a Sith.

    Hope you guys get what I'm saying.:)
    Last edited by Darkslayer, Apr 13, 2015
  18. ObidioJuan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2002
    star 4
    Here's some food for thought. In the new trailer or tv spot we hear
    Show Spoiler
    Kylo Ren talking to the burned helmet of Vader about finishing what he begun.


    If you haven't seen it then it's hard for me to discuss.

    But to me this shows that at least one of the new baddies is not really about the Sith but something else. Maybe as it was said it's a new type of dark-side order. Which is the same but different.

    Kind of having the empire not called the empire but everyone looking the same.
  19. Darth Dnej Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2013
    star 2
    We have had no indication that the Sith exist anymore during this new trilogy. Snoke and Kylo Ren may end up being Sith, but it is entirely possible they are not. Being on the dark side does not by itself a Sith make.
  20. JediLight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 4

    It's uncharted ground for the movies, that's for sure. The only darkside users we've seen have been conventionally Sith.
    Darth Dnej likes this.
  21. ObidioJuan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2002
    star 4
    It could be that the greatest story point was released in what Kylo says during the trailer. And while I stand by that he's not a Sith but a Sith wannabe, I just thought of something else.

    Show Spoiler
    Kylo seems to be emulating Vader (trying to be a sith with fake light saber and all), and trying to "finish" what Vader "begun".

    This could mean:
    a) Being able to bring people back from the dead (as Anakin turned in order to prevent Padme from dying or even to learn how to bring her back). Is he trying to bring Anakin back?, or Padme?

    or,

    b) Turn Luke Skywalker to the Dark Side of the force and "rule the galaxy as father and son", maybe Luke being the father and Kylo being the son (gasp); is Kylo Anakin's grandson and Luke's son?
    Last edited by ObidioJuan, Nov 26, 2015
  22. Obi-Ewan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I think Episode I-VI have done as much with the Sith as can be done. And I'm tempted to say, the Empire as well.
    The Expanded Universe's greatest advantage is that it found new things to be done, new places to go, in this fictional
    galaxy. Star Trek's greatest strength is that there were episode that didn't have a "villain of the week." They were
    about exploring new possibilities in the galaxy. While having "Wars" in your title may be somewhat limiting, I think they
    could still stand to think outside the box a bit.
  23. ObidioJuan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2002
    star 4
    Based on what has been shown in the trailers I think we can safely say that War and Conflict is alive and well in the GFFA.

    It may not the the Rebel Alliance against the Evil Empire but it still looks to be a well organized military that looks like the empire against a ruff-gag band of misfits and aliens that looks like the rebels.

    They may be called
    Show Spoiler
    the New Order and the whatever but they still look like the Empire vs. Rebels
  24. TCF-1138 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 4
    Indeed. What I am looking forward to finding out is if the galaxy has been in a perpetual state of war since ROTJ, or if it is something that has only been going on for a little while - whatever the answer, it could make a difference in how we see these two competing forces. Maybe this is already known through the EU, but I'm avoiding all post-Jedi N-EU until after I've seen the film.
    ObidioJuan likes this.
  25. Obi-Ewan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I think it's fair to say the film isn't following any of the literature that's been out for the past couple of decades. That being said, I'm glad that the EU seems to have wrapped up the post-Luke generation, so that it isn't left unfinished.