To what extent do the Sith know or care that they are evil?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by kyoshiro-kenobi, Jan 30, 2006.

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  1. kyoshiro-kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2003
    Do you think that the Sith realize how evil they truly are, or is Sith culture so different that they think what they are doing is right and what the Jedi do is evil (Anakin - "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!") ? I could buy that line of thought from Anakin, but not from Sidious.

    Some Earthly examples:
    The Korowai tribe in Papau practices cannibalism and think nothing of it, yet the rest of the world thinks the custom is repugnant and evil.

    Some Australasian tribes practice pederasty as an initiation rite and think nothing of it, yet the rest of the world thinks the custom is repugnant and evil.

    Osama Bin-Laden is responsible for thousands of deaths, but thinks he is protecting Islam from western aggression.

    Hitler is responsible for the killing of 6 million Jews, but thought he was protecting "das Vaterland" from the "Untermensch".

    Etc., etc. All those listed above were culturally ingrained to believe in the actions they took, which most of the world believes to be evil. So, at what point do the Sith know that they are evil?

    Personally, I think that Sidious knows exactly how evil he is. He cared only about power, and would do anything and kill anybody to get that power. I can't say the same about Anakin, Maul or Dooku. I think Maul was trained since birth that although the rest of the Republic believes differently, the way of the Sith is the true and correct path; he's culturally ingrained to believe in the Sith. His faith in the Sith is no different from a Padawan's faith in the Jedi.

    I believe Anakin and Dooku know what they are doing is wrong, but see it as a way to accomplish a greater good. They feel they have to do a few necessary evils to fix what's wrong in the galaxy, and if it means allying themselves with Sidious, so be it. They both feel that they are using him, and plan on disposing him once when he's no longer useful.

    Your thoughts?

  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    "One of the issues in all of this is the bad guys think they?re good and Lord Sidious thinks he?s bringing peace to the galaxy because there is so much corruption and confusion and chaos going on and now he?s going to be able to straighten everything out which maybe true but the price the galaxy is going to have to pay for it is way too much."

    --George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

    "There's always this good in you. And the good part is saying 'what am I doing?'. Then the bad part kicks in and says 'I'm doing this for Padme, I'm doing this for the galaxy and so we can have a better life'. But the good part is always saying 'WHAT AM I DOING?!"

    --George Lucas to Hayden Christensen, Hyperspace webdoc.

    "Anakin on the balcony contemplating what he?s done. This is the first time he actually has a chance to think about what it is that?s happened by himself and the tear here shows that he knows what he?s done but he?s not committed himself a path that he may not agree with but he is going to go along anyway.

    It?s the one moment that says he?s self aware. He rationalizing all his behavior. He?s doing terrible things. But in the end he really knows the truth. He knows that he?s evil now and there?s nothing he can do about it and that?s the moment where the pathos of him being stuck in that suit is real because if he had to do it over he probably wouldn?t do it but he can't stop it now.

    You know where it's going to lead. He knows it will end with a fight with Obi Wan. He knows that Padme not buy into this new reality. He made a pact with the devil and now he?s become the devil.

    The sad thing is Padme says there is still good in him and Luke says in ROTJ there is good in you. Its recurring. There is good in him. And that will bring balance to the force. He needs to get rid of the Sith and bring balance to the Force."

    --George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

    "Anakin/Darth does what he does because he believes he's doing it for the good of the universe."

    --Hayden Christensen, GQ Magazine.

    "What drove me to make these movies is that this is a really interesting story about how people go bad. In this particular case, the premise is: Nobody thinks they're bad. They simply have different points of view. This is about a kid that's really wonderful. He has some flaws - and those flaws ultimately do him in."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 53.



    The Sith don't really think they're doing anything wrong. Only Anakin knows that it's not right and that's at the start of his turn, before he is injured and put into the suit. The closer he is to that moment, the more convinced he is that he's in the right.
  3. kyoshiro-kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2003
    I guess it's kinda hard to argue with Lucas, but how was the Republic in trouble before Palpatine starting manipulating everything and everyone? He seemed to get the ball rolling by gettting the Trade Federation to blockade Naboo, and I figured he was behind the scenes, bogging the Senate down with procedural garbage instead of fixing the problems.
  4. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    oh boy Quotes . [face_dancing] I got one!

    " Good is a point of view Anakin " - Palpatine

    Did he think he was Evil?, Uh nope.
  5. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5
    That line was for Anakin's sake. Palpatine relishes in the fact that Anakin is in utter and complete agony at the end of RoTS. That is evil. He knows that is evil and he LOVES it.

    He is happy as hell to have Dooku killed. There is no reason he couldn't have given Dooku amnesty and blamed the War Crimes on Greivious or something like that. He wanted Anakin to have Blood on his hands and he wanted Dooku to die basically because he thought it would be funny to have him killed. In RoTJ, Luke throws away his weapon. He isn't a threat. Yet, he is really enjoying TORTURING him before KILLING him. This is just moments after he was cackling because he almost got a Son to kill his father. Dude is evil. He knows he is evil. He just wants Anakin to think that they are not evil.

    Carnage
  6. Eva_Pilot04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2001
    star 7
    Jedi Knight Da'vid M'ills (to Sidious):"I've been trying to figure something in my head, and maybe you can help me out, yeah? When a person is [evil], as you clearly are, do you know that you're [evil]? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading ['Blasters and Tibanna Gas'], [bathing in your victims' blood], do you just stop and go, "Wow! It is amazing how [kriffing evil] I really am!"? Yeah. Do you guys do that?"



    Go n-ithe an cat thú, is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat.
  7. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    The corruption isn't something unique to him, and the Separatist crisis was just him capitalizing on pre-existing feelings. The problem is endemic to the Republic and the Senate. Palpatine simply used it to his own purposes, stirring the pot a bit while he was at it.

    As to the question, if the quotes from Lucas weren't enough, nobody except very poorly characterized and cliche villains goes out and says "Gee, what evil things can I do today?" They might lack moral qualms towards doing something they know others would consider not right, but even in that case, they're not doing something they think is wrong. If Palpatine orders Dooku's death, it's because he doesn't want Dooku squealing, in order that his plans aren't ruined, in order that he comes to power, which to Palpatine is a good thing. His moral compass may be 180 degrees from everyone else's, but it's still to further those ideals that he considers good.
  8. Sidious_T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2004
    star 4

    [face_laugh] My sig says it all.
  9. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    **** hell Sidious_T, give the guy a break. He was just being helpful.
    Why do you feel you must constantly elevate yourself above this forum?
    I envy you so much. :rolleyes:
  10. Sidious_T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2004
    star 4

    Awwwww thanks.
  11. barnsthefatjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2001
    star 5
    I don't think Sidious cares for such labels. I'm sure he knows that he is what the Jedi would describe as evil, but I think he sees this as irrelevant.

    As far as he's concerned, he's doing the right thing; let others worry about whether that is evil or not.
  12. rhonderoo Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 9
    Psst. The intarweb is serious, serious business.[face_plain] ;) [face_laugh] Please quit baiting each other.
  13. andkiich Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2005
    star 1
    The Sith's intentions are pretty clear. Try reading TPM noveliation, chapter 10.
  14. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Nah. I don't think Sideous thinks in terms like that. " Good is a point of view " , and " Embrace a larger View of the Force " " and " Narrow dogmatic view of the Jedi " I seriously doubt the Sith think in terms of right and wrong. more in terms of just Being. they are Sith. it's the Jedi who are hindered by all this right and wrong , and Morality. Just like Adolf Hitler never stopped to think if what he was doing was wrong. he just was. most monsters are.
  15. RolandofGilead Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2001
    star 7
    I don't think he cares one way or the other. It's all about the end result. Getting complete and absolute power over everything. If that could have been achieved by baking cookies and dancing nekkid in the moonlight with the Jedi Council he would have done it. Instead it took the manipulation of the government, the deaths of millions of sentient beings in a war no one knew they wanted, and the complete erradication of the Jedi Order. Oh well, whatever it takes.
  16. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    I seriously doubt the Sith think in terms of right and wrong. more in terms of just Being. they are Sith.

    Yeah. They just know if they do certain things, it feels good.
  17. TheDarkSideAreThey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 1
    The Sith (not the natives), once Jedi themselves, were bent on ruling the galaxy (power) by any means necessary. Like when Sidious uses the "we will have peace" line in ROTS and smiles, it's a play on words. He doesn't care about peace, the first line of the Sith Code is "Peace is a lie, there is only passion." The Sith only want power, the only thing to satisfy their thirst for power is more power. Whether their deeds are good or evil, power is the main goal. They don't care.
  18. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I think the Sith don't view anyone as good or evil, they from Sidious's lines seem to view everything in grey and that absolute morality doesn't exist. The reason he'd be glad to have Dooku dead instead of in prison is that dead men tell no tales, the reason he'd torture various Jedi is to show to his apprentice that they are foolish to attempt to challenge him, and the reason he's happy when he sees Anakin's anguish is that he knows that Anakin is now his permanently. (though he was wrong on the permanence)
  19. Darth_Sidious- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2005
    star 2
    The sith always think they are doing the right thing.
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