too harsh

i think the jedi were too harsh on anakin seeing as how he formed attachments, to me it just makes the jedi (espescially yoda in rots with his talk to anakin) look like jerks, when they really need to look like heroes if we are to feel sorry for them when they die

 

I don't think they were trying to be harsh on him. It was just Jedi tradition. Even though it may have been a mistake to hold him back from having attachments,I think they just wanted what was best for him. They were sort of like parents to him that made a mistake,but were only trying to do what was right.

 

Personally, I don't think the Jedi we're hard enough on Anakin. He broke the laws of the Jedi Order.

 

you make a good point smuggler

 

The Jedi Order fell apart through its own impossibility. They picked kids basically on their midichlorian count, denied them a normal childhood and expected them to behave like superhumans. I'm wondering at how many actually rebel and become Dark Jedi, if they fail to become padawans, never mind knights or Masters. I think Anakin was simply taken from his home planet when he was already too old to be truly brainwashed into the Jedi ethos, high midichlorian count notwithstanding.

 

I'm wondering at how many actually rebel and become Dark Jedi, if they fail to become padawans, never mind knights or Masters.

That's a good point. What happens to failed padawans? Are they killed to prevent them from becoming Dark Jedi? Are they somehow blocked off from the Force? Even if they are not fully trained, once in touch w/the Force they know how to do it. So what stops them from just doing whatever they want with whatever Force ability they have? What happens if they take the Jedi Trials, and give into the Dark Side?

 

well dooku and 20 other jedi are the only ones who have left the order, and dooku ended up a sith lord, so who knows. anakin probably would've still gone to the darkside even if he left the order since he was obsessed with padmes death

 

isnt there a book where it says the padawns that dont make it are moved to a farming world or something like that.

 

you mean they can't go back to thier parents?

 

i dont think there is a book that says that...if your referring to luke he was seperated from leia and brought to his aunt and uncle because they needed to be protected from vader. as for the thread, i think anakin should have been kept off the council and palpatine should have been prevented from interfering with the coincil. anakin was clearly not ready and far too impatient to become a member of the council. he yelled at yoda, for gods sake. nobody yells at yoda and gets away with it.

 

I don't think the Jedi were harsh on Anakin. He made his own choices and deserved to face the consequences of those actions. However, I do think the system was bound to fall through, eventually. If the EU has anything to say, far more Jedi than just Anakin were starting to form attachments. Which makes sense. Non-attachment is fine in a time of peace, but during a war, which forces people to reflect on the human side of things to find motivation, the instabilities of the system start to come through.

 

the eu is one thing, but lucas i think really believes in the no attachment thing not just for the jedi but for humanity itself

 

im sure there was a book, let me see if i can findi t.

 

I agree with Smuggler. They weren't hard enough on him, and look what happened.

Had I been his superior with the attitude I have for insubordinates in my martial arts class, not only would I have popped him once or twice real good, I'd also have demoted him and banned him from touching a lightsaber until I thought he was ready again.

 

I don't think the Jedi were too harsh on him. Anakin is a Jedi. He should be able to deal with anything if he wants to become a great Jedi. If he can't deal with what they have to say then obviously he was following the wrong path all along.

 

i meant they're too harsh because they know that anakin had formed attachments and should know that could concievably push anakin over the edge

 

the eu is one thing, but lucas i think really believes in the no attachment thing not just for the jedi but for humanity itself

Considering he has several adopted children and was once married, I doubt it. As far as the movies go, I think ROTS suggested that Obi Wan's attachment to Anakin crossed a dangerous borderline, as well. And by the Jedi's logic, Luke should never have made it as far as he did. The Jedi aren't the scourge of all evil or anything, but I do think we're meant to get the sense that they're not entirely on the ball either.


Had I been his superior with the attitude I have for insubordinates in my martial arts class, not only would I have popped him once or twice real good, I'd also have demoted him and banned him from touching a lightsaber until I thought he was ready again.

Exile him, sure, but if by "pop," you mean physical violence, that isn't going to solve everything. One of Anakin's main problems is that he was instilled from a early age with the knowledge that the more force one has over others, the more control he has. Since Anakin seeks control more than anything, he eventually connects that to power, whether that's wielded politically, emotionally, or physically. Fighting force with force would only make Anakin angry and only validate his belief that you can hold others down by wielding power over them.

 

The Jedi Order fell apart through its own impossibility. They picked kids basically on their midichlorian count, denied them a normal childhood and expected them to behave like superhumans.

That may be a part of the reason Anakin crushed them, but it wasn't the reason for the fall. After all, they existed that way for 20,000 years.

 

The Books you mean are the first few Jedi Apprentice books. Once Obi-Wan was thirteen, he was sent to the farming world of Bandomeer. Once can assume that this happens to all failed Padawans.

 

Too harsh might be a stretch considering he never really just came out and said Im married and expecting, which would have changed everything. Even though Anakin should be held accountable for his actions, the movie definetly shows the council in a negative light and this is proven by the fact that Obi-Wan isnt happy about the council having Anakin spy on the Chancellor. Obi-Wan himself isnt clean of responsibilty of Anakin and what he becomes either, as is plainly shown when Yoda rhetorically replies to Obi-Wan to " use your feelings " to locate Anakin. Yoda doesnt say that to him because he doesnt know that thats what he must do. He says it to him in a manner that would indicate an " I told you so " - somewhat anyway.

 

That may be a part of the reason Anakin crushed them, but it wasn't the reason for the fall. After all, they existed that way for 20,000 years.

20,000 years? As I recall, the Sith were only wiped out about a 1,000 years ago, and the Jedi Order before that did allow relationships. Does anyone whose familiar with the time period have evidence one way or the other to prove that?

 

i guess the point is the jedi took a great risk letting someone in who had formed attachments just cuz he was the chosen one

 

Exile him, sure, but if by "pop," you mean physical violence, that isn't going to solve everything. One of Anakin's main problems is that he was instilled from a early age with the knowledge that the more force one has over others, the more control he has. Since Anakin seeks control more than anything, he eventually connects that to power, whether that's wielded politically, emotionally, or physically. Fighting force with force would only make Anakin angry and only validate his belief that you can hold others down by wielding power over them.
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True... Don't get me wrong, I do see your point. But you'd be damned surprised how well negative reinforcement works.

The fact of the matter is, in order to truly be able to discipline someone [well, someone in Anakin's position], more times than not, you'd have to be downright mean.

They always say physical conflict never solves everything. Believe me, that is one of the biggest loads of BS you'll EVER hear. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it ALWAYS solves everything- even as martial artist, I'll specifically stand by the fact that it should be a last resort [unless in a do jung/dojang/whichever you others may call it {and yes, this supports my decision of "popping" Anakin... the Temple counts as the dojang}] when dealing with someone. I have only about... Three times have to resort to physical contact, one of which just being with a friend who got to rough with me, another as some middle-school BS [I was still in my "tough guy" stage back then], and another time a simple. Especially with people such as I and my fellow martial artists, and as the Jedi are perceived to be [not easily angered at all], the sight of myself or another student around my level striking another student [as compared to a Jedi striking another] MUCH more than likely signifies something's REALLY wrong.

The fact of the matter is, really, it is a movie, and it was written that "anger drives the Dark Side". But really, had it been an honest and true situation, a real hard strike from myself or another person with as much training as Lucas claims the Jedi have [which isn't apparent in the movies], or even a fellow student of mine, will almost promisingly be enough to shut someone up and teach them a lesson of respect, if by fear.

I'm not trying to fight haha, so don't take it like I am. I apologize if I come off that way. I'm just trying to get the point across that had I been a superior, and in that situation [with more realistic human characteristics], had I struck Anakin, it would have been hard enough to get his attention, and had I been the same person I am now, it would have clearly stated that something's truly wrong, as should if a higher-ranking Jedi were to strike Anakin.

 

They were too soft on him in my opinion. He was an upstart and his enormous potential made him a particularly dangerous upstart. They should have come down on him like a ton of bricks from day one. Instead, they were lenient because of the fact that he may have been the chosen one.

 

you guys are right, obi wan, instead of telling anakin to be mindful, needed to smack him upside the head more often