ST Too much use of the Force?

I hear what you're saying... but I don't nessersarily agree. I think the PT was quite effective in portraying him as a somewhat 'irrational' individual... so I don't think one can expect him to behave rationally when he's been shown to be somewhat flawed. Ahsoka, on the other-hand, is shown to be much more emotionally robust... so of course the way she deals with similar angst is completely different. I certainly felt sympathy for Anakin... and whilst, yes, some things could have been handled better, it's worth mentioning that pre the PT I never thought I would feel sympathy for Darth Vader... I thought I'd be shouting "do it Anakin", "turn to the darkside"... whereas I found myself saying "don't do it", "don't fall for it". That was a major plus point for me.

 

No, Ganger! You have so much to live for; don't do it!

 

I made a post about how the general audience tends to not overanalyze film, particular these kinds of simple films we're talking about, and just take the "good" vs "bad" labels at face value. Lots of people seem to respond to the impact of Order 66 simply because Jedi, the default "good guys" for the previous 30 years, were being slaughtered.

There was no argument. There was no attempt to define the emotional impact of Order 66 as you, Granger, see it.

Nobody was even talking about your personal experience.

In fact I already stated earlier that as effective as the Order 66 scene was executed, it would have had a greater emotional resonance if we'd gotten to know some of the Jedi a lot more personally.

 

True, but if you watch TCW series, you do get to know the Jedi better, and it makes the 66 scene more powerful, as you suggest.

 

I think the Jedi should be uber powerful in this movie, and they lung at each other and cause tremendous collateral damage.

 

Yes, they must lung at each other and cause tremendous collateral damage with their Force Coughs. You only THOUGHT The Force Unleashed went too far...

 

That only seems that way because Luke is a Jedi in training who has trouble understanding the ways of the Force. It seemed special because he was growing in the ways of the Force as an outsider compared to the other Jedi and Sith. The PT didn't cheapen things by showing us the Jedi and Sith in their prime. That's just a false impression that you got from seeing the OT first.

 

True, but what's even more interesting to me about that is the fact that you get to know the clones better as well, which makes the tragedy of their existence more profound.

 

Word.

In fact, this is exactly why I love TCW. And I think it's a great reason for people to open their minds to LFL's new transmedia approach. Let the films offer resonant broad strokes while TV and novels offer the interesting textures and depths. (not an argument against depth and textures in the films)

 

I can imagine. But a film shouldn't need supplementary material to help hit it's emotional notes properly.

If a single, standalone film is enough to get you to care about a character, people, or plight, three films should be more than enough.

I mean the original Star Wars, in it's original self contained state, did a fine job at helping your care greatly for the plight of not only the immediate characters, but the entire galaxy's oppression.

I'm not a PT hater; quite the opposite. But George had so much actual film time to develop the Jedi as a whole, and wasted too much of it on material that could have easily been pared down, if not eliminated all together.

 

Yeah, I don't disagree; the PT should have had stronger emotional notes. Still, TCW exists and it does enhance the PT.

 

The emotional beat of Order 66 never hit me any less hard due to not knowing the individual characters involved better. Having just seen those characters throughout the trilogy and understanding what it represented for the galaxy as a whole was enough to convey the sheer magnitude and tragedy of the event, along with the amazing score of course. Something like TCW can make the individual losses a bit more personal, but it's in no way essential to the emotional resonance of that scene, which nearly brings me to tears every time I watch it.

 

Perhaps I'll look into it one day. I do enjoy a lot of the PT, so I'm open to this material.

I don't dwell on it at all, it's just at times like this, when it's brought up, there is a little frustration there. Just developing one or two more Jedi as strong supporting characters would have really knocked the entire Jedi purge out of the water. As it stands of the only developed Jedi in ROTS, Obi Wan, Anakin, Yoda, and to a lesser extent Mace, all but one survives the PT.

But this is the downside of knowing the end from the beginning. Because the death of Yoda, Obi, Qui Gon, or Mace are really the kinds of deaths that would have made the Order 66 execution land a home run (though, again, I do find it quite well executed even as is). I mean if Qui Gon's death had been saved for ROTS, with Obi Wan still being the one who ended up taking Anakin as a Padawan, can you imagine the resonance of this original father figure being cut down during the betrayal? Goosebumps just thinking of one last, major Qui Gon fight as a mass of troopers overwhelm him.

 

While I agree about TCW allowing you to get to know the Jedi a bit more... I would have to say that's only after the fact that they were rather shallowly portrayed in the movies themselves. A movie should not rely on other material to fill in it's gaps.

That being said, I love each and every clone episode in TCW, those guys were awesome, some really, really good moments there.

 

I don't think the PT needs supplimental material - although it helps in filling out characters... just like things like the Star Wars Radio drama - which helped flesh out characters and situations greatly IMHO (particularly epsiodes 1 and 2 of ANH).

I also don't think there's any real narrative reason to care for the PT characters outside of Padme, Anakin and Obi-Wan (perhaps Yoda). I'd put the likes of Mace, Ki-Adi-Mundi or Bail on a par with Biggs, Mon Mothma, Wedge or Wicket... and truth be known I didn't give a hoot about those particular characters in the OT. I was much more interested in Luke, Han and Leia - which I assume was Lucas' intention. Sympathy for the fall of the Jedi/Republic was elicited through the main characters. Now if the prequels left you not giving a fig about the central characters, I'd say 'yes' something’s a miss... but generally speaking (and acknowledging that my fave characters will always be Luke and Han), I did care (relatively speaking - it's only a film after all) about Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan's fate.

 

Exactly. The lightsaber, for me, anyway, has lost its thrill. As for the Force, I'd like to see different aspects explored and new powers used.

 

Midichorians damn near took the mystical aspect out of the Force. Midichorians, or whatever they are called, seem like something from Star Trek.

 

I would like to stand up and applaud this article!!

It's one of my main issues with the prequels and with Episode VII speculation. I have said repeatedly here that I hope we see little lightsaber action. For me, my worry isn't about the application of the Force but going overboard with fighting scenes (although this article raises many awesome points). You risk diluting the mysteries surrounding the living force. To me, the 1:21 mark of this video captures Star Wars perfectly:

The prequels focused too much on the Jedi and fast lightsaber fights and martial arts. It fits in with these modern times where everything is explosive, kinetic, and violent. Star Wars is so much bigger than the lightsaber. Kasdan and JJ, please use the Force sparingly! It should be dessert, not a full course meal. The Jedi are not what Star Wars is about.

 

'Tis actually quite the opposite for me, in regards to the article, as I simply cannot tire of seeing anything Star Wars related, though, I would imagine that the reason I am so keen toward an overabundance of lightsaber battles, perhaps sometimes over exaggerated Force-powers in comparison to the movies and the like is because I am such a huge fan of Anime & video games. Stuff like Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Mass Effect, Outlaw Star, etc. really kicks action sequences into that next gear, and it looks fantastic on-screen when done properly. Star Wars is no exception, in my opinion. Although, admittedly, I do love the old-school Obi-Wan_Vader showdown as well.

Thing about Star Wars also is that George Lucas laid groundwork for the Force to be such a magical entity since the very beginning, and as such gave credibility toward its' growth, although Midichlorians suck, no question there. Same can be said of the growing number of lightsaber battles in the prequel trilogy as Lucas foreshadowed that possibility with the realization that Vader had hunted down all the remaining Jedi, Obi-Wan's allusion to Anakin being a Jedi too and their involvement in the Clone Wars, which suggested perhaps more Jedi.

 

OBI-WAN: "Your father's Lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a blaster. An elegant weapon for a more civilized time."

Meaning that the Jedi didn't go around using blasters. This was set up in ANH and note that in ROTJ, Luke stops carrying a blaster and relies on his Lightsaber as a weapon. Hell, in TESB he never fires his blaster once. He uses his Lightsaber to save himself from the Wampa, to open up the AT-AT and then to fight Vader. As to the Jedi not being what "Star Wars is about", who are you to judge what it is and isn't about?

 

He is a viewer with his own opinion. Just as there are those of the opinion that Jedi are awesome-sauce and the more Force the better, there are those who feel quite the opposite. Some prefer the struggle of the oppressed vs. the tyranical government, some prefer the iconic and breathtaking space battles, some prefer Storm Troopers, some prefer Han Solo. There are a great many things in the Star Wars "universe" that have little or nothing to do with the Force, or people waving laser swords and shooting lightning.

Personally, I am in the camp of "Yes", way too much use of the Force. The Force, as a concept, was more entertaining when it was a mystery, and a power reserved for the select few (in my opinion). When that lightsaber went flying into Luke's hand in the Wampa Cave, it was like whoa dang. But I never thought of Star Wars only as "that movie about the Force". I much preferred the Galactic Civil War, and the space battles, and all the things happening around Skywalker and Co.

 

Having his opinion is fine. But the statement came across more as fact than opinion.

 

So we have to put in my opinion in every single thing we post now?
Seemed obvious to me that it was his opinion.

 

In all fairness dolphin, someone named George Lucas seems to think the story is about the Jedi: