Top Capital and Forgivable Fan Film Cliches

Partly due to this thread, I'm working on a script about a smuggler during the Empire. There are then the "cliche" elements to this story, as well: a crimelord, a bounty hunter, Imperial customs, etc. I've found a way to work a Jedi into the story, in such a way that it serves the story and isn't obtrusive.

But . . . . no forests. No Sith. No Duel of Fates.

I'm saving all those for my other project.

 

Using non-jedi sounds good and no doubt can be done, but again, as much as I like Han and Chewie, the reality is that Jedi are ultimately what people think of when you say Star Wars.

It is now...but it wasn't bck during the OT. I know, I was there. The PT focusses on the Jedi, the OT was much more diverse, and so was the conciousness of the viewers. How have we forgotten so much in so little time?

 

See, but you knew exactly what I was talking about. When they're used effectively, they're "archetypes" and "story hooks"; when they're used badly, they're "cliches." "Good" and "bad" filmmaking aren't intrinsic to those elements or to genres themselves. It's all in how they're used.

There's more to it than simply how they're used; how much and when are just as important, if not more.
The first Master/Padawan fan film was, at the time, way cool. Probably so was the second. Along about the fifteenth it was like, "Enough already!".
And it doesn't matter how well it's done anymore because it's been overdone at this point. That's why I said that it should be left alone for about five years, to give it time to fade from peoples' memories...because something can lose its cliche status if it hasn't been done in a good long time.

I mean, forget Jedi/Sith, Master/Padawan, and Duel of the Fates; why is "of the" a cliche? Why are forests a cliche? Why are double-bladed lightsabers a cliche?
Why? Because everybody's done them to the point where they've become funny rather than cool or badass, that's why.

If we, as fan filmers, had practiced moderation, or if these particular subjects were left alone for a while, they probably wouldn't be cliches. But we have, they weren't, and now they are, respectively. You get the idea.

 

It is now...but it wasn't bck during the OT. I know, I was there.
She's right. It was about gunning an X-wing down the trench of the Death Star, it was about the giant lumbering snow walkers, the cool 'droids, the cool tech, the cool aliens, and the cool characters.

When Luke suddenly cut loose with his bad-a** Jedi abilities above the Sarlaac pit, it was kind of a blast to see a real Jedi in action for the first time, but really, we were there for the speeder bike chase and the AT-ST battle and the huge bloomin' fleet battles above Endor.

To me, the Jedi were kind of a nice bonus of the PT, but not much more.

 

See? Someone who gets it! The focus on the Jedi is something relatively new; originally the Star Wars universe actually felt much bigger, before the PT narrowed it down to primarily a Jedi story.

 

Yeah. YEAH!! See, the jedi were sucking up all the screen time. To them, it's all about me, me, me. THAT is why executing order 66 was a GOOD thing

It widened and diversified the SW universe for all!!!

^JR^

 

But, from what the Maker himself has said, it's supposed to be the story of Anakin - how he becomes a Jedi, falls to the Dark Side, and finds redemption in the end. He's a Jedi. Trained by Jedi. Redeemed by a Jedi.

*sigh*

While I do see your perspective, RocketGirl, I still have to contest that Star Wars is a Jedi-based saga. Episodes IV and V didn't have a lot of Jedi content because there weren't many Jedi around - that's part of the story.

In the end, when taken as a whole, the Saga is about the Force, the Jedi and the Sith. Yes, there are many more wonderful elements to the overall story, but these are the core.

Nyar.

 

That's the story George Lucas told; it's not the story you have to tell, no is it the entirety of the universe George Lucas created. Your vision is limited, and your argument has nothing to do with the subject under discussion, which is fan films.

And won't it get boring telling the same story over and over? I think so.

 

My script has a Sith, a Jedi Master, and Padawans in it. It has 4 lightsaber duels (in a roughly 20-minute film). It has a forest. It has a canon OT character. It even has someone say "I have a bad feeling about this."

But it has a Sith, a Jedi Master, and Padawans in a story that is unlike other fan films. It has 4 lightsaber duels that exist to develop the characters and advance the plot. It has a forest that is used in a way that hasn't been done in other fan films. It has a canon OT character who is used differently from the way she's been used in other fan films. And someone says "I have a bad feeling about this" in a context that is different from the way it's been said before.

My script has a simple plot, complex characterization, and relatively realistic dialog. And if I ever manage to translate my vision from paper to film, any fan film fan who says "I won't watch that; too many cliches" will miss out on a good movie.

 

any fan film fan who says "I won't watch that; too many cliches" will miss out on a good movie.

How about a fan film fan who watches it and says, "I didn't like it...too many cliches. Seen it all before,"?

 

How about a fan film fan who watches it and says, "I didn't like it...too many cliches. Seen it all before,"?

Nobody who knows good movies would say that. The kind of people who watched Kill Bill and said that probably would though. But that's not who the movie will be for. (If it gets made.)

 

Nobody who knows good movies would say that.

*snort* A bit impressed with ourselves, are we?

 

*snort* A bit impressed with ourselves, are we?

Nah, I just have high standards. I won't make it just to make it. I'll only make it if I can make it right. If I can't, I'll walk away. And yeah, I'll be able to tell the difference.

 

My script has a Sith, a Jedi Master, and Padawans in it. It has 4 lightsaber duels (in a roughly 20-minute film). It has a forest. It has a canon OT character. It even has someone say "I have a bad feeling about this."

Hate to say this, but we all have a bad feeling about this. That either means A)there's a saberfight every 5 minutes, or B)there are 4 FIGHTS going on at once. Or can it be C)Jedi Master and Padawans vs. one Sith? How much dialogue will take place before, during, and after the fights? Will there be time to place the canon OT character in (I don't know if 20 minutes is enough, even with really fast MTV-type editing)?

Hopefully the forest will have "evil" trees set on fire(at least digitally).

Can you elaborate just a little bit more(without totally giving away your story, of course)on the story to ease the skeptic in me? I hope you have a main crew (director,DP,editor) that has actually worked on a lot of REGULAR movies, not just SW fanfilms.

 

Hate to say this, but we all have a bad feeling about this.

Good. I want to defy expectations.

Edit: I wrote a novel-length response to all your questions, but I've decided to shut up until I'm ready to put up. So my only answer is, look for my movie in 2007 or 2008.

 

Hmm, lemme check. In my fanfilm "Star Wars: Twiight Jedi"......

Forgivable Cliches
- Double-bladed lightsaber <----none
- "May the Force be with you." <----none
- Force-push <---yeah, this is a trademark move of one of the main characters
- "I have a bad feeling about this." <---A Star Wars must
- Fifteen year old Jedi Masters <---no, thank the Maker ;p
- Tatooed Sith <---I have tatooed Chalactan Jedi
- Opening crawl (hey, it's Star Wars, dammit!) <--defnitely
- Coruscant/Jedi Temple <---nah
- Evil (or at least seedy) bounty hunters <---none
- "Lucasfilm" logo wannabe <---nah

Capital Crime Cliches
-Double-bladed lightsaber getting chopped in half <---none
- Forest lightsaber duel <---hey, it's cheap. Besides, how many forest saber duels have we seen that are *actually* good, other than the "Art of the Saber" thing?
- BSRs (Big Stupid Rings...compare the Death Star blowing up in the original vs. Special Edition. Yeah, that crap.) <---none
- "Noooooooooooooooo!" <---none
- Duel of the Fates <---hint of it. I used an original score
- A Jedi turns to the Dark Side <---yes, a major part of the story, but the Dark Side is a snapping point after one of the main characters stay in the gray area for so long
- Padawan and Master protagonists <---none
- Characters and scripts that exist solely to get to the fight scenes and FX <---Four of us worked on the script. And the characters' relationships are vital to the story. Some might even think them to be gay, haha

I hope you guys will like the fanfilm once it comes out. Yeah, it may have its cliches, but isn't Star Wars one big cliche too?

 

DarthMeek, again, no disrespect to you or your work, but given the over-all nature of this post, I think you see why I "axed" you the hard questions.

The other reason for my inquiries is that, not only are the cliches over-used, but the fanfilms posted all over the net fall into 4 categories: 1)peeps w/no money who are "just experimenting"(these need to taken down really, until they make it to a certain level), 2)Martial arts guys who just want to show off, but aren't really diehard SW fans or filmmakers, 3)(The one I hate the most)Diehard Fans with ****loads of money that always claim there was no money involved(BULL****!!), with productions that look like they invested at least thousands, but are usually plagued with bad, out-of-shape actors, atrocious writing, saberfights weaker looking than Vade vs. Ben in ANH, and horrible cinematography--but the 3D stuff looks nice(thanks guys for giving critics more reason to rip on George). Catagory 4 is comedies/satire, but those are what they are, and seriousness isn't an issue.

That being said, your clarifications helped out, and you sound very confident of your ideas and your project. I hope it turns out well and defies the catagories I've mentioned. Keep us posted.

 

Well, I'm a n00b to this forum and at filmmaking, but I'm not a n00b at everything, know what I mean? I know what movie I want to make, and I know I'm not good enough to make it yet. But I have a plan for getting good enough.

 

Wait, are any of your fanfilm "catagories" GOOD? And if they say they didn't use a lot of money, why not believe em? It's called being resourceful, or efficient, or just plain making a good movie. Just cause youi got a small budget doesn't mean you can't make something up there with the greats. I'm sure you can think of a few blatant examples

 

Some might even think them to be gay, haha

Now THAT, RocketGirl, is something we've NEVER seen in a fanfilm, although they kinda spoofed that on the Chappelle Show. They're so many funny stuff you can do with same gender Jedi-Padawan relationship, but I don't think the Mods would like me to write them down.

 

Tathlyn_Vrinn - "He told me... To feel the force!"

 

LOL

 

Now THAT, RocketGirl, is something we've NEVER seen in a fanfilm, although they kinda spoofed that on the Chappelle Show.

Wait, what? Did I say that? It must have been pages ago, because totally don't remember the context... This thread is months old, keep in mind, so not everything is fresh in our memories...

They're so many funny stuff you can do with same gender Jedi-Padawan relationship, but I don't think the Mods would like me to write them down.

Well, until Padme was pregnant in RotS, I wasn't entirely convinced that Star Wars characters even have genitals. (Hey, Luke and Leia could have been clones of some sort! Wouldn't that have been an interesting twist on why Vader didn't know he was a father until Luke showed up?) And we've certainly never seen any evidence that homosexuality exists in the Star Wars universe. It might make an interesting subject for a fan film, but would smack of bringing up issues--telling a story to preach rather than tell a story--and I doubt it would be a good Star Wars fan film, ultimately.
With that in mind, the possibilities for Master/Padawan "slash" fiction are indeed legion...let's just hope nobody decides to put it into film format.

 

Tathlin Vrinn, i think you quoted from me and not RocketGirl.

What I meant was that so far with my fanfilm, viewer response was similar to how some people saw the Frodo-Sam relationship. Let's just say that it was somethign at the back of my mind, though I didn't want my characters to be gay anyway.

 

I think what he meant was that RocketGirl said Jedi are worn out and overused and there really isn't anymore you can do with them to make it seem new and fresh.

What he's saying is that that is deffinately something noone's tried before.

He was addressing her because this is her thread and she is arguing that Jedi are overused.