PT TOP TEN Most Powerful Jedi/Sith on the PT According to me

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Alessandro Sanfilippo, Nov 1, 2013.

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  1. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Sidious's actions in those scenes are pretty clear. He underestimates Yoda's power at first. When he's able to blast him against the wall with lightning, he thinks that he's got the fight in the bag.

    Then, Yoda gets up and Force pushes him across the room. Palpatine realizes that there's a chance he might lose the duel, so he decides to run and let the clones deal with Yoda.

    After all, at this point, he's got a lot to lose. He's won, the Jedi are all but extinct and he's the Emperor. Since he can't win easily against Yoda, he decides to just leave and summon the clones to kill Yoda.

    When Yoda blocks his escape, he has no choice but to fight. So fight he does, and they're almost evenly matched. Palpatine wins in the end, but it's closer than he'd probably like. It would have been safer to run and let the troopers hunt Yoda down. In the end Palpatine still wins, he remains Emperor and Yoda has to run for his life, without lightsaber and even his cloak.

    I'd call that a Sith Victory.
  2. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Agreed.

    As the previous poster says: "Not wanting to fight" doesn't mean "failed to outduel Yoda."
  3. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I didn't say it meant that.

    If anything his attempts at running away before the duel even started show that he was afraid to face Yoda.

    Often the person who is confident of winning isn't the one who runs from confrontation.
  4. Komodo9Joe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2013
    star 1
    Come on, Supreme Chancellor. The emboldened statement seems a bit naive compared to your usual levelheaded posts. Running away/refusing to fight doesn't instantly mean that one is fearful of confrontation (and this is something that many fail to grasp).

    To an extremely intelligent person such as Darth Sidious, fighting should be done pragmatically, not simply to prove a point that you're superior. Sidious has entire legions of clones at his command: why bother fighting when he can easily overwhelm Yoda with sheer numbers? Why put himself at risk (even if the risk is not fatal) when he can kill someone without any chance of personal harm? Why risk a confrontation that can potentially protract into a grueling and difficult battle when the opponent can be easily annihilated through use of armies, i.e, clones?

    In this case, a confrontation only benefits Yoda, who is solely relying on such a confrontation to eliminate Darth Sidious. Sidious is not so barren in choices: Coruscant is his domain, Galactic City is his stronghold, thousands of troopers military personnel are patrolling the area. Sidious has the opportunity to save himself a difficult battle and to guarantee the death of Yoda by fleeing which is the same result as fighting Yoda, save the possibility of injury. Between the two choices, it doesn't take a megalomaniac and masterful villain to see which option suits Sidious better.
  5. Komodo9Joe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2013
    star 1
    The emboldened part is the problem, not per se, but with regards to proving a point. Your following two statements are also fallacies: the first one is plain wrong and the second one is not germane to the topic. Let's take your "I'm an Obi-Wan fan so I consider him more powerful" and replicate it. For instance, what if I said C-3PO is the strongest character purely based on personal liking. You would probably disagree, dislike my comment because it is absurd and lacks support, and find my comment to be unhelpful and not constructive in answering the thread.

    Yes, it's fictional but I think the OP wanted us to ground our statements, not leave them in the realm of subjectivity. And yes, we can rate Jedi/Sith in a scientific way; the fact that it is fiction simply means the results pertain to the fictional universe. Science is all about observation and one can observe the results of the duels we see onscreen. Science is also about the inclusion of facts, which we do have, such as the character's personal admittance and the statements made about each character.

    Don't misunderstand, I've no problem with you stating your opinion, but you seemed to be wavering between admitting your liking of Obi-Wan (which is fine) and trying to back up a false claim that Obi-Wan is stronger than Mace. If you had just left it to "Obi-Wan is my favorite character so I naturally view him stronger than Mace" and end it at that, without statements which seem to be trying to craft evidence (cuz Obi wan is a main character and made it alive in through 4 movies ... cuz he's in all the movies and stuff) then I would have been fine with your post. But then again, you did like my post which I assume means that you agree with me from a non-fan standpoint :).

    On a side note: Yeah, I'm as perplexed as you are that DRush76 read your post as racist. That seems really illogical when your post never even hinted at being racist. I really doubt there are a substantial group of Mace haters simply because he's Black.
  6. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    To go to the truly, deeply, emotional core of the OP, though it's "Most powerful Jedi and Sith according to me". Henceforth, my opinion according to me. So, while other posters may want to go with long lists of whys, hows, wherefores, etc., it boils down to opinion, as stated in the thread title. So nobody can be right in a quantifiable, measurable manner. If somebody says Threepio is more powerful than Obi-Wan, that's their opinion, not mine. But it's not right or wrong. What you get out of art is how you interpret it. No two people interpret the same piece of art alike, every draws something from it differently. And, in my opinion and interpretation, Obi-Wan is more powerful than Mace Windu. Cuz he's in all the movies and makes it to the sparkly, happy, blue glowing ghost level. And he's one of my favs. Simple, really.
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 6, 2013
  7. Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2013
    star 1
    You forget that this is the Prequel Forum, so we can only count 3 movies as our source material.
  8. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Not for me! I don't think I'll get banned for saying "Yes, I take the OT into account when looking at Obi-Wan's power level". Since he's the same character. Therefore Obi-Wan more powerful. According to me. Go me!
    Last edited by BigAl6ft6, Nov 7, 2013
  9. kubricklynch Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 3
    If we're just going by the movies I don't think Kit Fisto should be on the list. I mean he pretty much gets owned in like 3 seconds in the only action we see him in.
  10. Darth_Magus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2002
    star 2
    All this talk about Anakin and his power, well that is what it is...talk. Once he becomes a Sith show me one example in the film of this power. Well ummm he defeats all the Jedi in the Temple, yes, with the help of Stormtroopers and Anakin the Jedi could have defeated them anyway. So he.....

    Yes?

    Gets yellow eyes ;)

    There is no obvious increase in power once he becomes a Sith AT ALL. We are talking about a film here, where you show onscreen the actions and feats of the legendary not just talk about them. I grant you he did have the potential as Vader by the time of TESB is a far more powerful and frightening prospect I would wager, but to say he was a Powerful Sith when he did nothing to show that power is ridiculous.
    VanishingReality likes this.
  11. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    I think people are undervaluing Qui-Gon too much. The subject is most powerful Jedi/Sith, and people are putting too much weight on his duel with Maul. Maul may be a better swordsman, but that doesn't mean he is a more powerful Jedi/Sith. I'd put Qui-Gon up with Mace and Yoda. In fact, it was Qui-Gon who discovered the path to immortality and trained both Yoda and Obi-Wan so in some ways, he's above them.
    Although, in all fairness, that's about 2 seconds longer than Saesee Tinn and Agen Kolar
    Last edited by Beezer, Nov 16, 2013
  12. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    I'd almost say that's the point. The benefits of the dark side are greatly exaggerated. It is more of corrupting force. Vader doesn't even get to learn Sith lightning, and if TCW is any indication he already knew force choke. For the rest of his life, he will only amount to Sith Apprentice, same as when he started. Later on in ESB Vader has crazy furniture hurricanes and deflecting Han's blaster with his palm, so there's evidence that he has stronger than in the force too.
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I don't know that I have ten but here goes, in no particular order.

    --Mace Windu. He invented Vaapad, the highest level of lightsaber combat, and one that takes an incredible level of emotional control, one that the majority of Jedi do not have.

    --Sidious. His ability to disguise himself in the Force was so great that he was able to take over the Republic right under the Jedi's noses and they never figured it out.

    --Yoda. The only one who really had any suspicions prior to ROTS that something was "off" about Palpatine, plus his survival into the OT era.

    --Obi-Wan. Again, the only one other than Yoda who survived into the OT, and between the two of them, successful training of Luke.

    --Qui-Gon. The discovery of Anakin, much to Plagueis and Palpatine's chagrin, and the ability to retain consciousness after death
  14. Rachel_In_Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2013
    star 2
    I agree with those who said Sidious tried to avoid Yoda because he had everything to lose at that point. Why risk it all when it's not necessary?
  15. AnakinColodin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2009
    star 2
    Why must so many discussions on these board end up as Dragon Ball Z type power level discussions. Not to bash the OP but there have been ton of threads on this already. Lucas himself commented on only two characters power levels. In the movie commentary he states Anakin as the Chosen one has the potential to be the most powerful force user ever. He also states that Anakin is 80% of Sidious after his lava bath. The only other comment on Power levels comes from Anakin in AOTC where he compares Obi-wan as an Equal to Mace and when he comments on his own strength in both movies. Trying to quantify anything is moot because even if Midi's were what quantified it which they are not we only no that Anakin's count is higher than anybody else ever. Using who won what fight does not work as others have noted because outside things come into play such as environment and emotional state.
  16. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, it all really comes down to outside things.
    There are several levels of 'power' in these sorts of fights
    1: Emotional State
    On this level, Dooku, Mace, and Yoda, maybe Sidious would have the biggest advantage. Anakin would have serious disadvantages in this area as he can be arrogant and angry.
    2: Environment
    Someone always have some advantage on where the spot takes place
    3: Force Power
    Anakin would have the greatest Force Ability
    4: Lightsaber Ability
    Yoda, Mace Windu, Maul, and Sidious would probably have the greatest saber ability.
  17. Alessandro Sanfilippo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2013
    star 1
    If Vader used lighting wouldnt he damage his robot hand and electronic suit?

    ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Alessandro Sanfilippo, Nov 21, 2013
    AnakinColodin likes this.
  18. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    There are too many variables at play in the duels to come up with a definitive list, but I think it's fair to say that the intention is that Mace, Yoda and Sidious would fill the top three spots.
  19. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    If this is your "proof" or answer that Obi-Wan was more powerful than Mace, what is the point of this thread?




    I agree there are a lot of variables. But I feel that Anakin and the three mentioned above would fill the top four spots.
    Last edited by DRush76, Nov 22, 2013
  20. Jarren_Lee-Saber Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2008
    star 4
    My list:

    1. Anakin Skywalker
    2. Darth Sideous
    3. Yoda
    4. Mace Windu
    5. Count Dooku
    6. Obi-Wan Kenobi
    7. Darth Maul
    8. Qui-Gon Jinn

    Anyone else is merely speculative - I'm not counting The Clone Wars beacuse TOO MANY!
  21. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    As people have pointed out, there are multiple variables at play and conflicting dialogue.

    For instance, in AOTC we hear Anakin give high praise to Obi-Wan calling him as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu. Both of which I believe to be exaggerations, but for such high praise, to associate Mace with power could be indicative that Mace is a better combatant than Yoda.

    However, we also see Obi-Wan give Yoda the highest praise as a swordsman, not Mace.

    In the films we see Mace and Sidious fight in a relatively enclosed area, with neither using telekinetic Force powers of any kind. Yoda and Sidious fought in a much more open area where Sidious was able to capitalize on Force use and the two fought more or less to a draw (but I feel Yoda had incentive to run since Palpatine had the high ground and reinforcements were on the way to help Palpatine). So in the event that Yoda had no means of escape and reinforcements were not coming, who knows?

    Mace is clearly very powerful in lightsaber combat, whether or not he would have lasted as long as Yoda in a contest of Force powers, who knows?

    The outcomes of those battles could have been determined by the arena in which they were fought.

    I would say Yoda = Mace = Sidious. And that if any of these two fight, it could go either way depending on the circumstances of the battle.

    Next we have Anakin, Obi-Wan and Dooku. And the fact that Obi-Wan > Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan when it comes to the outcomes of the battles in the films. Some things to consider though are that Dooku seemed to underestimate Anakin was was not accustomed to his unorthodox method of fighting. For most of the fight, Dooku seemed to be enjoying himself and not taking it too seriously, then he gets caught off guard when Anakin grabs him by the wrist. We see Anakin attempt this with Obi-Wan in their duel on Mustafar, Anakin grabs Obi-Wan by the wrist but Obi-Wan counters, perhaps because he's more familiar with Anakin's fighting style.

    Dooku seems to underestimate Anakin
    Anakin seems to overestimate his abilities against Obi-Wan
    And Dooku owns Obi-Wan

    Had Anakin not been drunk on power and overconfident, he may have won, and had Dooku not underestimated Anakin, perhaps he would have faired better. Obi-Wan did not underestimate Dooku, but was still knocked unconscious. Too many coulda, woulda, shouldas.

    But I'd say Dooku ~ Anakin > Obi-Wan.

    So thus far:

    1. Mace = Yoda = Sidious
    2. Anakin = Dooku (Anakin clearly has greater long term potential, but as of ROTS, I think they were roughly the same, only with Dooku being overconfident and screwing up)
    3. Obi-Wan
    4. Darth Maul (as far as raw power goes, he may be stronger than Obi-Wan, but he's not as smart)
    5. Qui-Gon (defeated in a straight fight with Maul)

    Any of the other Jedi we see to little of for me to draw any kind of conclusion. And Grievous spends most of his time running. Obi-Wan was fairing just fine against Grievous, but during their chase he happened to lose his lightsaber which leveled the playing field. I also omit Grievous since he is not a Force user.

    A problem with a lot of these ranking systems is that people want to know who would win on a completely level field where the environment is exactly the same, nobody is being overconfident, etc. But never do fights have such stagnant conditions.

    Also in sports like boxing or any kind of martial art in real life. There is the reality that fights between two people do not always go the same way 100% of the time. Boxing rings don't change, two fighters fight in the exact same conditions multiple times, but the same guy won't necessarily win every single time.

    With lightsaber battles, often the loser is dead, so there isn't a second opportunity to see how they would've performed again. I mean, if anything, I think Dooku did better against Obi-Wan in ROTS despite Obi-Wan and Anakin attacking together, vs. in AOTC when Obi-Wan was alone.

    Palpatine lost to Mace, but the battle also started 4v1 and Sidious killed 3 of them. In a rematch, who knows?
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Nov 25, 2013
    MOC Yak Face and Iron_lord like this.
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The way I chose to interpret that was to assume it meant Obi-Wan was as powerful as Windu yet not as powerful as Yoda.
  23. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    star 1
    It depends on how we think of 'power'. For instance do we focus on certain types or just the overall balance. If the overall balance then I'd say your list is more of less quite fair, though I'd swap Yoda to 2nd and drop Anakin lower down the list. He had the physical aggressive power but he had the brains and sensitivity of a squirrel.
    I most agree with your placing of Obi-Wan at the middle of the list as he is generally very balanced in terms of power: an above average saberman though not excellent (as can be seen in his two defeats at the hands of Dooku), an above average knowledge of the force, and strong wisdom.
  24. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    star 1
    Also bear in mind that Yoda probably hid a lot of his power, which is in itself power!
  25. Michael McKean Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2013
    star 1
    Why do you rate Maul so high? I wouldn't have said that his death was a fluke. Though admittedly I read somewhere that Sidious was very shocked at his death given his intense and lengthy training.
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