TPM after ROTS - it'll blow you away.

I haven't seen a thread like this so I hope this one won't get locked. This thread is to discuss specifically how The Phantom Menace seems different when you watch it after having seen ROTS.

First of all, I have to confess up front that I may be in a very small minority in that I never really felt there was anything seriously wrong with TPM, even when a lot of other people were expressing disappointment with it.

Having said that, I'm going to just come out and say it, TPM is a whole different experience when you watch it knowing full well what happens in ROTS. If it seemed a fun movie the first time around, this time it seems positively brilliant.

The tone of TPM definitely makes it the most childish-like of the PT, and that is a welcome relief after everything that happens in ROTS. Jar Jar's antics are welcome comic relief, because you know that things won't be this light-hearted ever again in the saga.

It is very sad when the movie starts to know that by the end of the PT, Obi-Wan and Yoda will have gone into hiding, Qui-Gon will have become one with the Force, Palpatine will have begun his evil Empire, Anakin will have become a Sith lord who is half-man, half-machine, and Padme and Shmi will be dead and buried.

In that sense, TPM almost becomes like a flashback to a happier, simpler time. The scene where Ani gives Padme the japor snippet is almost enough to make you cry, because Ani says it'll bring her good luck yet you know she's going to end up buried with it. And the scene in Shmi's home, when Ani says "Nobody can kill a Jedi!" becomes so tragic, especially when you know he will some day lead the massacre at the Jedi Temple. And hearing Qui-Gon's reply, "If only that were so" becomes absolutely heart-wrenching, having seen all the Jedi get killed in ROTS.

The scene where Padme (then known as Queen Amidala) calls for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum's leadership is, well, infinitely depressing, because you know Palpatine knows exactly what he wants and how he's going to get it and Padme is so absolutely clueless about what her motion will mean for the galaxy 13 years later. "Now they will elect a *new* chancellor, a *strong* chancellor".... indeed!

All the scenes with Palpatine as Darth Sidious are also a reminder of how truly cruel this man was all along, despite his amicable facade when still known as Senator Palpatine.

His lines near the end of the movie are all filled with so much hidden meaning. "We are indebted to you for your bravery, Obi-Wan Kenobi... and you, young Skywalker, we'll be watching your career with great interest!" "It is you who should be congratulated, your highness. Together, we will bring peace and prosperity back to the Republic!". He was always so full of it!

And watching Boss Nass and Sio Bibble in any scene they appear in is also a reminder of the saddest scene in ROTS, when they and Jar Jar are walking in the funeral procession right behind Padme's body.

The final celebration in TPM is also so very bittersweet when you know how it will all turn out. There is Palpatine, smiling sweetly in the background, knowing that by being elected Chancellor he's just given the first step of his grand evil scheme. And there is little Anakin, so full of pride in his Jedi Padawan uniform. And, of course, Obi-Wan Kenobi, completely unaware of what is to become of them all 13 years later.

There is only one thing that absolutely cries out to be fixed, and that is Yoda. After having seen CG Yoda in the last two movies, the TPM puppet seems more awkward and unexpressive than ever. It's good to know that GL has reportedly already said it would be changed for some future DVD release.

I realize people who've always bashed TPM will probably never fully embrace it, which is a pity, because it offers so much more when you see it knowing what is going to happen in the rest of the PT.

 

Hmm. I dunno, I like TPM a lot but I'm not sure it'll ever "blow me away". Maybe.

 

Well said, Tina...

 

Just by knowing the spoilers to ROTS, I felt that TPM was already a good film.

 

I've been saying this for months now.


People are going to see TPM in a whole new light now.

 

I agree that ROTS will improve our view of TPM, but I still think I'll have to fast forward throught the "trip through the planet core" Scenes.

 

Oh, I almost forgot. The next-to-last scene also plays so much better knowing what happens in the end of the PT. "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice!" "But which was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?". Then the camera pans slowly to focus on Palpatine, and the frame shows you (from left to right), Anakin, Obi-Wan, Padme and Palpatine. Knowing full well how they all end up by the end of ROTS gives this scene a whole new meaning.

 

I'm more interested in seeing ANH right before RotS. I want to see if there's a sort of ripple effect where the feelings from ANH are suddenly intensified ten fold when the events unfold in RotS.

 

Yeah i agree... we really should watch episode 1 and 2 before seeing ROTS. Then hopefully you want to watch ANH right after.

Then lucas has done his masterful job.

 

To be honest, the only stuff which bores me a little in TPM is some of the stuff on Tatooine, the pod race gets boring. Otherwise, it's great.

 

I don't know. I guess everybody's different. Me & a few other ppl got together last night and watched TPM to get prepared for ROTS. We'll be watching AOTC probably next week.

Anyway, I realized a lot of things that never bothered me about TPM before really bothered me during my latest viewing.

The acting for one thing. While I have seen most directors pushing thier actors for the performance they want, I could almost envision George casually saying "Good enough, print it." during some painfully bad performances and miscues.

Another thing, the awkward pacing. It felt like he had a jar full of tags with either "Meeting Scene" or "Action Scene" written on them, and he shook the jar up and dumped them on the table, and however they fell, that's how it ended up on film.

It just seemed a lot of time was wasted to establish the fact that Anakin was a good-hearted boy.

 

"The final celebration in TPM is also so very bittersweet when you know how it will all turn out. There is Palpatine, smiling sweetly in the background, knowing that by being elected Chancellor he's just given the first step of his grand evil scheme. And there is little Anakin, so full of pride in his Jedi Padawan uniform. And, of course, Obi-Wan Kenobi, completely unaware of what is to become of them all 13 years later. "

The music for that scene has the same tune as Palpatines theme. Quite sinister, as although it's a victory they've just totally played into Palpatines hands.

 

I've been saying this since June of '99. I could just tell by the tone of this film that something was just off.

I mean, if you really look at Episode I, it's a kid's film but it's very sinister in it's subtext and subtley.

And I applaud Lucas for going this route eventhough the majority of fans wanted Anakin to start off as a teenager and then progress. Which is still an interesting argument but having Anakin as a child in Episode I works in the grande scheme of things.

I can't wait to see Episode III and then go back to Episodes I and II. As of right now, I have a small sense of satisfaction knowing that there are a few reviews out there that are not understanding the importance of how Episodes I and II were executed...especially Episode I.

 

not to be a basher..but i agree with the pod race scene. but not only that, are you kidding me with little ani flying that ship at the end? That and the gungan battle just lose it for me. Luckily, Darth Maul is one of the coolest characters ever in such a small role.

 

Again, what's wrong with EITHER of the 2 threads you've already made? That is, if you've even seen ROTS. Sounds like someone just enjoys attention...

 

Thanks for the input! I was going to start a thread like this a couple of days ago, to see if after seeing ROTS, the other films in the saga had more emotional impact, but I thought it would get locked or moved to the Saga forum.

 

Just by watching the "A Life Redeemed" video on the SW: A Musical Journey DVD I knew this to be true.

Hearing Luke's (anguished) voice "There is good in him." intercut with scenes of a young Ani talking to Padme and podracing. Shmi saying "He can help you...he was meant to help you." intercut with scenes of Ani and Qui-Gon. Pretty powerful stuff. I'm sure the entire saga will truly be a wonder after ROTS.

 

Prequel Dreamer, that might not be a bad idea, either.

These days, I just can't get ANH Obi-Wan's words out of my head (the ones from the Battle of the Heroes version w/dialogue).

For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire. A young Jedi named Darth Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights..."

 

"it's a kid's film but it's very sinister in it's subtext and subtley. "

Agreed!

 

The truly insightful people, the one who saw the big picture, knew this since 1999.

Nice to see some of them creating these threads, and posting in them

 

To Follow up...

AotC is much better viewed with RotS.

Anakin's love for Padme teeters between the childlike innocence of TPM (the picnic, the intro scene) and his obsession to keep her (the fireplace scene).

Anakin's dream about Shmi and Shmi's fate seems so much more foreshadowing.

As does Padme's declaration "to be angry is to be human" and Anakin's "I'm a jedi, I know I'm better than this."

And of course, Anakin being unable to leave Padme after she is knocked from the ship, arguing with Obiwan and deciding to due his duty (a mini RotS in itself).

Obiwan's and Anakin's split (shown again in rots) shows that under Obiwan's eye, Anakin was a good jedi, but alone he was vunerable to tempations.

The Army of the republic appearing to the Imperial March, Duel of the Fates for Anakin's joureny to his first trial (his "failure at the cave"), and of course, Qui-Gon's voice.

While RotS will not redeem either movie to a ardant basher, they provide new context for all 5 movies to been seen.

 

I've known for a while that after ROTS we'd look at TPM in a new way. I can guarantee you the first thing I'm doing after seeing ROTS is popping in that Phantom Menace DVD to witness it for myself.

 

Then there's "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

Fear been his mother I suppose, anger at his mothers killers, hate for the Jedi (partly helped by Palpatine) and suffering becoming Darth Vader.

 

Yes it will feel like a masterpiece. He really made it worth it in the end. Amazing work Lucas, thats why i think this movie is getting such good reviews..

It makes you appreciate the world he created again. And it really makes you think it was all worth it. AMAZING!

 

The truly insightful people, the one who saw the big picture, knew this since 1999.

Well, I certainly suspected most of this since 1999. But there is a huge difference between suspecting it and watching it with your own eyes.

I was one of the few who always was certain that Palpatine and Sidious were one and the same. But it is such a world of difference when you literally watch Palpatine turn into the Emperor.