TPM Chapter 45: A Sith Vanquished DISCUSSION

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Moleman1138, Mar 27, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat
  1. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Until the release of ROTS on 5/19/05, I would like to discuss TPM chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: The Phantom Menace and Chapter 50: End Credits.

    Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted.

    Chapter 45: A Sith Vanquished
    DISCUSSION: March 27, 2005 - March 31, 2005
    DVD TIME INDEX: 123:49 - 125:06

    Synopsis:
    Returning to the duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Maul, the Sith Lord slashes at the generator it. Sparks fly as Obi-Wan tries with all of his might to hold on. Maul suddenly stops as Obi-Wan eyes his master's lightsaber. The hate fuels in the dark lord's eyes as the lightsaber creeps toward the pit. Obi-Wan jumps out of the pit, igniting the lightsaber and bisecting his nemesis throught the waist. A red fume emerges from Maul's body who is stunned and falls backwards in two down the shaft. Shutting off the lightsaber, Obi-Wan comes over and cradles his dying master. Qui-Gon's last wish for Obi-Wan to train the boy. He knows that he is the Chosen One and will bring balance. Obi-Wan tears up and Qui-Gon dies, not disappearing. END OF CHAPTER

    Opinion:
    The Battle for Naboo is over with the climactic conclusion to Duel of the Fates. Very emotional and for what we got, it seems all too easy after the whooping Maul gave the Jedi up to that point.

    A very quick final segment to the duel. After all the fighting, Maul gets caught of guard and dies sort of like Qui-Gon without the bisection. Maul's hatred is artistically developed through the flying of the sparks and his expressions. I have to mark out for Maul's death, but him falling in the pit seemed so fake. The upper half cheapened Maul visually a bit.

    The exchange between Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan is very touching. Even though Qui-Gon's stabbing didn't get to me, his death did. Like Anakin he didn't disappear, which hopefully will be explained down the road. It's so sad how Obi-Wan gives in to his fate of training Anakin. We know what happens, but that's the last wish of dying man. Sort of like a Marcus Aurelius death in Gladiator.

    Fast beginning, some bad CGI in the middle and an emotional finale make this chapter the perfect finale to the war. Now we just have the wrap-up scenes and that'll do it for this film. Good chapter.
  2. Bacon164 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    :D

    I love Darth Maul in pieces. The Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan story was done right, and this conclusion justified it.
  3. solojones Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Personally I like the way this fight ends, how Obi-Wan wins not with the Dark Side but with concentration (and a non-blue lightsabre, of course :p). He still has that edge in his eyes, though, and it's a bit worrisome. Love that parallel to Luke and Anakin, again. Just the humanity of it is great.

    Qui-Gon's death is one of the most moving scenes in the saga. I love the character, but I feel extra-bad for Obi-Wan at this point that Qui-Gon only speaks of Anakin and requests the impossible of Obi-Wan as his dying wish :(

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  4. WLDB Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2004
    star 4
    I liked it. How could Maul have been so stupid as to not kick Qui Gons saber into the hole with Obi Wans?
  5. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 7
    I liked the ending. Darth Maul got cut in half. Very cool. His expression is priceless.

    I thought Qui-Gon had died earlier in the fight until Obi-Wan ran over to him. Just had enough strength left to ask him to train Anakin. Not how I imagined that happening at all. Obi-Wan doesn't really think much of Anakin at all when they first meet and when he first begins to train him. He just does it out of Qui-Gons wishes. Kinda casting a sour note on Anakin and Obi-Wans friendship right from the start.
  6. rechedelphar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2004
    star 6
  7. Juke Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2004
    star 5
    I love this scenerio. Very Star Wars. I love Maul
    standing over the pit, striking the ground W/his
    lightsaber. His arrogance cost him his life. Very
    Sith of him.

    It's not without it's little flaws though. The way
    Obi-Wan leaps from the pit looks a bit janky. Then
    it cuts to a close up of him with that bad wig from
    the pick up shoots that is so noticable. The
    exchange between OW and QGJ is very good acting,
    especially on Ewan's part, but the writting there
    is more matter of fact than emotional goodbye.

    "Obi-Wan, train the boy."

    "Yes, Master."

    "And feed my cat."

    "OK."

    "And water my plants."

    "Let me get a pen."
  8. Old_Zen Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2005
    star 1
    There is a reason to Qui Gonn's expression when he gets killed. We know he would accept his death and was probally expecting it (Meditating before the duel), so when he died, he prolly became one with the Force, and his mind entered the Force, and he relized all the answers and leaned everything fo what was to come, etc, when you join the force you become part of nature and thus know everything, etc (More powerful than you can possibly imagine) And so he sensed the future that was to come on the Jedi. His face says it all.


    Notice he says: "Its too late."

    Nothing can stop the coming darkness.


    Sorry if this has already been pointed out and these threads rock! Keep it up.

    This little quote of mine explans my little ideal:

    And then he was immortal. Omnipotent, all knowing. All powerful. He was one with the Force. One with nature. He was the energy he came from. He was more powerful for he wasen't confined to his physcial realm. He was one With the force. But he was dead and thus could not relay all he knew to mortals.
  9. Wally44 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 2
    What was the other version of the death of Maul? Was it his body DIDN'T fall apart on the way down? I don't recall....

    Nonetheless, it was a great scene, one of the best in the movie.
  10. lovelucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    so much i agree with fellow chapterbychapter posters - solojones -i also feel badly for obiwan as qui gon can only think of Anakin "and requests the impossible of Obi-Wan as his dying wish" with nary a mention of his own padawan, except that perhaps in making this request he is indicating his belief in obiwan.-

    hooklinesinker-forced mentorship between anakin and obiwan, esp since anakin knew of obiwan's reluctance set a rocky course to friendship-

    oldzen - yep - i thought qui gon meditating b4 the final encounter w. maul indicated his acceptance of death - how interesting to see all that you saw in qui gon's face. sure, i could see that now too.

    and maul's cross sectioned death fall harkens back (or forward to) the same trip by the emperor.

    genuine true performances by both ewan and liam
  11. Obladi_Oblada Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 2005
    star 2
    I like Qui-Gon's dying words and the performance and everything, but at the same time I kinda wish Obi-Wan had chosen to take Anakin as his Padawan himself. Or at least a, "Qui-Gon would have wanted it this way," kind of thing. Which keeps the same kind of sentiment while making it Obi-Wan's decision. Qui-Gon's last words could have been something about trusting in the Force, and after some meditation Obi-Wan comes to the conclusion that the Force wants him to train Anakin. As he says in ROTJ, "I thought I could train him as well as Yoda... I was wrong." Alec Guinness' delivery conveys how much Obi-Wan blames himself for everything. And I don't remember what it was exactly, but there's a cut line in one of the scripts where Obi-Wan says that he believes that he and his pride are solely responsible for what's happened to the galaxy. I just think that Obi-Wan training Anakin because he feels obligated to honor his dying master's last request takes something away from his character.
  12. MANDALORIAN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 4

    Fast beginning, some bad CGI in the middle and an emotional finale make this chapter the perfect finale to the war.

    IMO, bad CGI does not make anything "perfect".

  13. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    IMO, bad CGI does not make anything "perfect".

    "I'm so glad you're here to tell us these things...":p

    In all honesty, though, I am not sure that I understand the reasoning behind this sentence:

    Fast beginning, some bad CGI in the middle, and an emotional finale make this chapter the perfect finale to the war.

    While I greatly admire your Chapter-by-Chapter synopses, Moleman, I find myself agreeing (to a certain extent) with MANDALORIAN, though our agendas differ, no doubt. Hmmmm.....

    Anyways, Darth Maul's demise in this chapter is, as many others have already mentioned both here and elsewhere, very much perfunctory and underwhelming in its presentation. I do not object to the manner in which Maul died, per se, rather that I found the successive and cumulative editing which lead to his "exit" to be too understated; there wasn't a sufficient gradual dramatic buildup to the Sith's demise, and I think that that would have resulted in a more satisfying conclusion to this piece of the film.

    The scene between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon is, however, very gentle and touching. This is Obi-Wan's moment in which to formally succeed his master, and the bond between the two characters is finally very pronounced. It would be nice if we had the opportunity for a few more bits of conversation between the two throughout the course of the picture, but both Ewan and Liam assert themselves very nicely in their characters' parting moments. Aside from Anakin's departure from Shmi, there hadn't been many opportunities for affecting character passages in the film, something which consequently makes this one seem even more special.
  14. DarthTunick SfC Part IV Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    If I hadn't spolied myself before TPM was released, I would have been more moved by this scene, but alas it was still touching, especially since Qui-Gon will not bear witness to what Anakin will do as he becomes Darth Vader. Perhaps if this film was rated PG-13, we could have seen a limb or two when Obi-Wan cuts Maul, but his death is well done.
  15. Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2002
    star 4
    I too had bought the comic book before seeing the movie. For TPM there was a big gap between the U.S. and the European release (July in the UK and August in Austria and German!).

    I really like this scene. It is thrilling (Obi Wan defeating Darth Maul) and emotional (Qui-Gon dying in Obi Wan's arms- especially with QG wiping away Obi Wan's tear- someone pointed this out here).

    Anyway, some interesting facts about this scene:

    In the Illustrated Screenplay this scene takes place ahead of the destruction of the Droid Control Ship. IMO, the set up we have now is better as it ends emotionally. But maybe we're biased because we've experienced it the other way.

    There were two versions of Darth Maul's battle wounds filmed because at the time Lucasfilm and ILM weren't sure if it would affect the PG rating.
    One version features the blood spray and him not breaking in half as he's falling down and the other one is the scene with him getting cut apart in half (the one that got used in the end).
  16. HL&S Magistrate Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2001
    star 7
    Moleman needs to get the last remaining chapters up before this forum stops accepting new threads.
  17. Moleman1138 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2004
    star 6
    Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). TPM Chapter 46: Chancellor Palpatine Arrives DISCUSSION will be made available 1:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

    -Moleman1138
Moderators: heels1785, Seagoat
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.