TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by BattleDroid1138, Nov 16, 2004.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    The thing is, we used to to top tens. Now there are almost as many worst tens.

    Personally for me, the negativity gets out of hand. I can't believe all the things people complain about on a regular basis.

    As if our lives are so bad that we have to slam everything all the time.

    Life's too short to dwell on the negative.
  2. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    The five Star wars movies are the five greatest movies of all time, so if some people say that Episode I is the least popular part of the Saga, then that still makes it the fifth greatest film ever made, and that's not too bad ;)
  3. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    This from Coldlight...

    "People might hate SW, fine. If you hate a movie, you don't watch it again, and you bitch about it to all your friends, and if you're a film critic, you write a negative review. You don't set up an international shadowy media-corporate alliance hell-bent on the destruction of all involved in the making of these films. Honestly. We're not trapped in an episode of the X-files here, people."

    Any media outlet that you pay to access has an ulterior motive: profit. In other words, a media outlet will do what it feels is important and necessary to sell itself. Some things, like Entertainment Weekly, appear to have an anti-Star Wars bias because of the negative reviews they give to Star Wars films and Star Wars culture. That's not a hidden conspiracy - that's a marketing strategy.

    Of course there's not an underground conspiracy against Star Wars. It's just that, well, film criticism isn't what it once was. Remember Ebert? I don't always agree with him, but he's at least had some academic training. His knowledge of film technique and history mean that he can do more than just say "I liked it because it was flashy" or "I hate it because it was flashy". With the internet, we've seen a huge rise in film criticism as an industry, but the film critics are less liek Ebert and more like Harry Knowles.

    My point is that film critics seem to be missing some of the essential elements of the films they are criticising. Look at all of the accolades that "The Incredibles" received. Most reviews commented on the CG humans, a technical aspect. While that is important in a film, it certainly shouldn't replace plot. The plot of the film was exactly appropriate for the humour and animation style, but few critics mention it save to give a brief synopsis. No critic lamented the deaths offered in the film as being 'hidden' behind euphemism, but that is what happenned.

    Oh, and Ben Burrt describes the languages used for various alien races in his book "The Star Wars Galactic Phrase Book" (which had me rolling on the ground, at times). It seems taht all of the alien dialogues had some Earth language basis somewhere.
  4. Zar_Valen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 1
    Both Hutteese and the Ewoks were taken from real dialects from here on Earth.

    In the case of these and Nien Numb I would say that they are either taken from a linguistic so obscure or the sound mix and design has extrapolated it to a such a point that they are no longer readily recognizable. Again, in none of the alien speech in the OT was I reminded of Earth languages. But in Episode 4 the languages used seem to be very common ones. I had to keep wondering "what IS that accent?". To me, the two highly noticeable ones sound just like a take-off on Japanese and Spanish. Strilo mentioned Watto sounding Italian and I can see that. Go-Mer-Tonic says the intent of GL on Nute Gunray was to be a Bela Lugosi-ish Romanian/Transylvanian accent. Shelley has mentioned Arab and Jewish. The point isn't who is right or wrong here or even what the sources are exactly, but that the dialects are distinctly Earthbound. That seems to be the point that no one is disputing. And THAT is what is distracting to me personally.

    When I'm watching this movie and one of the characters sounds Japanese, then suddenly I'm not in "a galaxy far, far away" anymore. The illusion is lost for that moment or two I have to think about what non-alien source the language seems to be based on. An entirely distracting vague ethnicity. Maybe it's a total coincidence but for something that was avoided in the prior movies it seems to surface often in this one.

    Again, this is just my opinion and I'm in no way trying to tear this movie down. It's just one of the reasons I presented for the question asked, "TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?". I'm going to leave my point at that.
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    All of the dialects are Earth bound.

    If they weren't we wouldn't understand what they were saying. Whether or not you are personally familliar with them doesn't change that fact.

    You get ripped out of the experience when you hear English spoken with what you hear as an Asian accent, but have no trouble when the English has a British or American accent?
  6. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    And please - do you know how immature and ridiculous these Anti-StarWars-Conspiracy theories sound?

    Which particular theories are those?

    People might hate SW, fine. If you hate a movie, you don't watch it again, and you bitch about it to all your friends, and if you're a film critic, you write a negative review. You don't set up an international shadowy media-corporate alliance hell-bent on the destruction of all involved in the making of these films. Honestly. We're not trapped in an episode of the X-files here, people.

    The only one who's mentioned an elaborate alliance to bring down SW is you, COLDLIGHT.

    Oh please... cry me a friggin' river.

    What? I don't get what you mean by this response.
  7. Zar_Valen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 1
    You get ripped out of the experience when you hear English spoken with what you hear as an Asian accent, but have no trouble when the English has a British or American accent?


    When humans speak English or even a more formal form of English (which is the case with the British stage actors often featured in these films) then it is easy for my brain to accept. To see an alien, who looks alien, and is supposed to be speaking in an alien dialect, that sounds a whole heckuva lot like Japanese for no apparent reason, then yep that's distracting.
  8. Darth_Mimic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    "To see an alien, who looks alien, and is supposed to be speaking in an alien dialect, that sounds a whole heckuva lot like Japanese for no apparent reason, then yep that's distracting."

    I have a question, then. Why doesn't it take you out of the experience when a non-human speaks in British or North American English? Admiral Ackbar speaks English with an American accent. Yoda, Ki Adi Mundi, and the Kaminoans all speak English with American or British accents. Why is this more palatable for you than English with a Transylvanian accent?
  9. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    "Why can't there be foriegn accents in space without it being a racial thing?" signed...

    Sulu
    [image=http://puvodni.startrek.cz/posadka/sulu1.jpg]

    Checkov
    [image=http://www.redbendad.com/8/pavelcheckov.jpg]

    Scotty
    [image=http://www.tenforward.szm.sk/post/tos/Scotty_12.jpg]


    Although, Sulu really didn't have an accent. However, I wonder what it would have been like if Spock had a Southern Accent. [face_thinking]

    EDIT: BTW, my microwave and coffee maker are offended because R2D2 has a Sony accent and something about parts being made in Taiwan. :p
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I am glad this has no effect on my enjoyment.
  11. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    I didn't notice anything until some of the haters in the media told me it was there - I wish I could be better prepared for these films ;)
  12. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    COLDLIGHT I think you need to tone it down a little. Your post is very aggressive and that tone only leads to bad things...

  13. --Skywalker-- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2004
    star 2
    I knew TPM would lose. I personally enjoy TPM but I think only a few Hardcore fans love it, not regular movie-goers
  14. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
  15. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
  16. The_Nameless_One Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 4
    And that's only the ones who bothered to vote - there are many more who take it's greatness as a given, and wouldn't see the need to take part in such a poll [face_mischief]


    (I voted in the poll, but that's only because I can't keep away from all things Episode I - it still captivates me, even more so than in 1999, if that's even possible :D )
  17. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    YIPPIE!!! I was part of the Red Block Bar!!! 16% BABY!!!
  18. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    72% of the hardcore fans here seem to love it...


    But Strilo, that's hardly scientific. :p
  19. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
    72% of the hardcore fans here seem to love it...


    That result should be expected considering where the survey was taken. Much the same would be expected of hardcore fans on a Britney Spears website.
  20. gezvader28 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 4
    Public opinion can be polled but unless it is a scientifically random sample of the general public, the results will be skewed, sometimes badly in the case of a poll here or on imdb.

    yes, but are there any polls of the general public as you describe, for movies I mean? And are they international ?
    imdb is at least international and it has the largest number of members as far as I know.

    It upsets me that this IMDB poll even exists. I mean, we all know that a movie series has to have some films which we prefer. But what is IMDB really proving with it?

    Well I suppose they're reacting to the large amount of disappointment that occurred with the prequels.

    I do think he used certain ethnicities to portray these aliens linguistically and I think that was a bad choice because it DOES open the door to people making further comparisions and leaps in logic to say he was using stereotyping in his characters.

    I don't remember any other Star Wars languages or accents sounding like those on other 'real world' cultures and I don't understand why they were used here. This is why I thought it was awkward and distracting and a point on which I feel weakened the movie.


    Yeah, in the OT the dialects were obscure and mixed up, but in the PT it just seemed obvious; and while I don't think he or the film is racist it did bring to mind some of the cartoony racial accents that would appear in old movies where they would stereotype Chines or Mexican or whatever, before they realised it was kind of offensive. So I think it was a rather naiive choice on Lucas's part.

    72% of the hardcore fans here seem to love it...

    strilo, are ther any comparitive polls here for the other 4 movies ? I mean polls that ask the same :
    Love it
    Mixed bag
    No
    ?
    It'd be interesting to see the 'Love it' rating for the other 4.

    g
  21. BattleDroid1138 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2000
    star 3
    Sometime after ROTS there should be a comprehensive poll done. A poll for each film--Where do they rank rank 1-6?
  22. Sith_Sensei__Prime Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2000
    star 5
  23. Zar_Valen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 1
    If a human is speaking English in an American film it seems natural. If an alien is speaking a fake, made-up language that sounds like a human language, then it just sounds like a mimicry of that language.

    In regard to the American/British accent thing. Are there any unusual variations of English being spoken here? All of the actors seem to be suppressing their natural speaking voices for more of a "stage voice" or like that heard in old movies. The actors sound very formal, direct, and proper. That's why say Samuel Jackson or Hayden Christiansen or Carrie Fisher's speech sounds very formal (some have called it "wooden"). I would say that accents are being deliberately de-emphasized in this instance to make them all seem less Earthbound. If someone were to speak with a heavy Scottish, Irish, Aussie, Canadian, Southern, etc. accent then that would also be very distracting since it's not very "long ago in a galaxy far away". Again, Lucas seems to have encouraged a very straight, plain pattern of speech in the actors.

    Then if such an effort is being made to present a uniform type of English, then why do some of the aliens sound like they have Earthbound accents, or at least languages built around certain dialects? Maybe this was a complete accident on Lucas's part. Maybe he thought that this would better relate to an international audience? Who knows. I'm sure his intent was to just make the best and most entertaining film possibly. BUT, the alien languages are remniscient of earth languages and that is a shortcoming of the film, in my opinion.

    What if for some reason Peter Jackson had presented the Elven language in Lord of the Rings with a vague Southern drawl? That would have been very distracting yes?
  24. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Then explain why this doesn't bother me in the slightest.
  25. Zar_Valen Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2004
    star 1
    Because this is my opinion and not yours. :D
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