TPM- the most underrated SW film

"Concentrate on the living Force."
"I sense a disturbance in the Force."
"I've encountered a virgence in the Force."

This is enough to indicate that the Force is metaphysical, not a deity.

 

Yes, thank you Plo Koen. I still stand by my earlier points. While TPM never directly states what the force is, there is a well of contextual information that makes it rather simple for a movie-goer to understand.

"But master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future."
"But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living force." This makes it obvious that they draw wisdom from the force.

"Don't worry, the force will guide us."

"He can see things before they happen, that's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait...the force is unusually strong with him."

"Without them we'd have no knowledge of the force."

As Plo Koen said, all these quotes indicate something metaphysical...and they are also obvious statements as to the power of the force, and the relationship the Jedi share with it.

 

The force didn't need explanation in TPM. It had already been explained in the first SW film.

 

Then it was explained again in the holy ESB.

But that's OK, since it was the holy ESB.

 

Darth-Stryphe: "The force didn't need explanation in TPM..."

As Bacon164 said, "Think about future generations when they watch it in order before you say that. Lucas says I-VI is the way to go..."

Being that the Flannel One says that's the way to go, then it would be appropriate to give the audience a clear understanding of the Force and use it as a metaphor for moral guideline.

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Plo_Koen
"Concentrate on the living Force."
"I sense a disturbance in the Force."
"I've encountered a virgence in the Force."

This is enough to indicate that the Force is
metaphysical, not a deity.
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It gives the impermission of a an ominous being. Many have felt The Force is a religion, like others on earth where the followers feel, pray and encounter its presence.

_______________________________________________________
kupo


"But master Yoda said I should be mindful of the
future."
"But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of
the living force." This makes it obvious that they
draw wisdom from the force.

"Don't worry, the force will guide us."

"He can see things before they happen, that's why he
appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi
trait...the force is unusually strong with him."


"Without them we'd have no knowledge of the force."
_______________________________________________________

Many religious groups require a mindfulness of their spiritual guidance and/or deity. In fact, many go to war forcing others to be mindful. Practitioners of religions draw wisdom from it as well.

A common regilion preaches, "Don't worry, the Lord will guide us and provide for us." Moses wandered the desert for 40 years.

Does the phrase "the Force strong with him..." imply it is so because of his powers/Jedi trait or because he was a virgin birth? There are more religious inferences than metaphysical in Episode One.

Most of the posters in the thread agree that the Force was described in detail in ANH and ESB and not so much in Episode One. Which is not really a good thing, since TPM is the introduction to the Star Wars saga.

As for Qui Gon being heroic for fighting the status quo??? As kupe put it, "...which is not compelling..." Many feel the same exact way.

And regarding Qui Gon using midichlorians to confirm his intuition??? What happened to "trust your feelings" or "be mindful of the Force?" Why would they need a scientific test if their practice is to trust their feelings and the Force? Indeed, midichlorians is a scientific approach to the Force. Crude matter the dismisses the notiion of "luminous beings are we."

 

I'm confused why folks need to be told what the Force is in TPM? I mean they're constantly showing it again and again and again. The Jedi constantly use the Force.

In ANH you had to tell people because there was only one Jedi and one Sith in the bloody movie. And you saw Vader using the Force before they explained what it was.

 

The Force is the backbone of the Star Wars saga. To glaze over it and infer its existence in the introductory episode is a great disservice to the fiber of the epic.

 

I agree that a better explanation of the Force is needed in Episode I. The audience needs to know this if they are going to watch all six films in episodic order.

 

Midichlorians and the lack of explanations for many things (the Force) are the only things that really irritate me about TPM. Which is very good, considering that alot things don't bother me as much as they do others...

The Force DOES need an introduction if George wants ANY hope of his big master plan working (chronological order anyone). Someone is more likely to be confused by this whole 'Force' thing than getting that it's what Ben said, "an energy field binding everything together". Dialogue like "May the Force be with you" does not cut it. I don't see how someone can see TPM as the "fourth of the series" when it says Episode <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<I>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the very beginning. Things like the Force need to be introduced.

 

I think you misunderstood me, sensei (ha, that sounds funny at the end of a sentence). My exact quote was, "Simply not falling into the archetypical "hero" slot(which in some aspects he does) doesn't make him not a compelling character." I'm saying that just because he isn't a hero in same the typical manner as, say, Luke, this doesn't make him not a compelling character. Quite the opposite, actually. You see, Qui-Gon's fight against the "status quo" has a high degree of applicability. Battling archaic tradition, religious fundamentalism, unwavering political ideals...these are things that most of us will meet with at some point in our life. Qui-Gon's struggle is easy to identify with, which is likely a contributing reason to WHY he's had such an impact on audiences.

Continuing in the Force discussion, I suppose I have a question for you. What are your views of the Force? You seem to be viewing "metaphysical" and "religous" as contradictory (I may just be misunderstanding you, though), yet they are not. Religion deals in the metaphysical.

I will not deny that TPM attempts to cast the force in an extra-mysterious shroud, but I think this is purposeful. I think I have incorrectly stated my previous arguments. TPM gives the APPROPRIATE information for its place in the saga. We do learn much of its nature, the powers it can bestow, who uses it, why, and how. But it is purposefully portrayed as an abstract religious concept of which several views exist.

If you want to get really picky about the way in which a narrative should be told, then TPM shouldn't answer any questions at all, really. It should only pose them. This is only the first sixth of a larger story. At this point, in most stories you have likely just left the introduction and entered the rising action. Things are only getting murkier, not clearer. And for the audience to FULLY understand the Force at the end of Episode I would be a mistake. The prequels are partially the story of the Jedi having to RE-learn the Force...they don't even truly understand it in TPM. For the audience to be totally in the know completely kills the tension, and destroys the feeling that you are "learning" along with the Jedi.

I guess what I'm saying is this: TPM quite obviously intimates that the force is some sort of metaphysical power that is essential in maintaining the balance and flow of life itself. We also learn there are several interpretations as to how convening with the force should be done. This conflict sets up one of the saga's major story arcs. TPM does everything it needs to in terms of Force explanation, I feel. I guess I'd simply like to know what else you wanted from it? What were expecting from it?

And finally, back to the Anakin discussion. You are quite correct that Jar Jar is venturing out; taking part in a journey...but he certainly isn't as developed as Anakin Skywalker. Jar Jar is a totally static character, he's goofy and carefree at the start, goofy and carefree at the end.

Anakin is much more complex, though. Anakin goes through a struggle throughout the plot of TPM...and that is the struggle of coping with separating from his mother. On Tatooine we see him dealing with this...he is torn between his dream and his mother. He wants to have his cake and eat it, too (and as it is later revealed, this contributes to his downfall). This boy has just been freed from a life of slavery to pursue his dream, and yet a word pops, quite distinctly, twice: "cold" This is not a feeling of a 9 year old chasing his dream. This is fear, this is doubt. And yet, at the end, R2 overrides the auto pilot, and Anakin doesn't turn back. He finishes the fight. Our last image of Anakin is that of him as a determined looking Padawan. He'll always miss his mother, but he has made his choice. He is also still the central character because so much of the plot centers around his discovery; he is the axis on which the plot revolves (compare this to Jar Jar, who is little more than an attachment to the plot).

 

Sith_Sensei__Prime, replace "Force" with "God":

"Concentrate on the living God."
"I sense a disturbance in the God."
"I've encountered a virgence in the God."

That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Concentrate on the Living God makes pretty good sense...

 

I think TPM is standing the test of time quite well. For quite some time I preferred AOTC, but not anymore. Certainly not the best SW film, but maybe the most underrated.

 

TPM contains some of the best music in the entire franchise, the best SFX and designs, and has so far made more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ than all but the original movie. I think a wider perspective on what a good or bad film is is needed in order to appreciate the really good parts of tpm and bash the bad parts. I hate those 'keeanu Reeves school of acting' moments. Jar Jar is stupid. Some parts are boring. The force is 'something;' it's really not defined at all really.

But when the lightsaberz light up, it's like heaven. I didn't get that feeling from AotC for some reason.

When I watch TPM, I can skip to those cool lightsaber fights. They truly are better than all the rest...

 

TPM is very underrated indeed.

 

Anyone get a star trek vibe when watching TPM? It's almost like a homage to that series if not for the cartoony gungan dude. There WAS an enterprise in it afterall.


edit: punctuationism

 

Concentrate on the Living God makes pretty good sense...

Sure, but the implication of a dead God does not.

 

One of the things that really bothers me as far as comments made about Episode I is when people say it lacks a "heart." I vehemently disagree. To me, TPM and ANH have the most "heart" and "spirit" of the entire saga. These movies, if nothing else, feel "alive" to me. They are truly about entertaining, about not taking themselves too seriously. They are about capturing imagination, they have a true sense of "fun" to them. AOTC, to me, just felt dead on so many occasions. Hollow, if you will.

 

Once again, kupo, I agree! AOTC had no heart. The rest do.

 

TPM is definately one of my favourite SW movies. I guess to understand Jake Lloyd's bad acting, you have to understand Jake Lloyd himself. I was the same age as him when I saw TPM, so I didn't notice anything wrong with it.




Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about...

 

My ranking:

1. ROTJ
2. ESB
3. ANH
4. TPM
5. AOTC

But, once ROTS is released, I will grow to love the entire saga.

I don't care how disappointing TPM was, it was still a very good movie, and is still an awesome entry to the Star Wars saga. Even though I don't really like AOTC, I will grow to once the six-movie boxset is released.

 

No, you definitely know what you're talking about!

If there's one performance I'm totally willing to let go of, it Jake's. I never expect great things from child actors. As long as it's acceptable, and I thought Jake was.

 

RATE NOT!

 

The Phantom Menace is indeed an underrated film, having saying that, I also find Rocky V to be quite underrated, though nobody agrees with that.