PT TPM underrated

There's only two sith at any one time. Even Yoda says some gobbledy gook about only being two, master and apprentice. So what kind of power exactly do the Sith gain that causes this imbalance? Does Palpatine's ability to cloud the force on a universal level increase proportional to his bank account? Or how many friends he has and consequently how good he feels about himself? See how stupid this sounds?

Basically, the imbalance in the force is just a shoe-horned in plot device. Lucas has a problem, Jedi can see the future. So Lucas creates an "imbalance in the force" so that Jedi can't see much of anything. This imbalance exists despite there being only 2 sith compared to about god knows how many Jedi.

It's crappy writing quite frankly.

Um. So only the chosen one can defeat either the master or the apprentice, even though Obi Wan just defeated an apprentice and he's not the chosen one? That don't make sense.

Not to mention the fact that you're making things up again, either that or you're referencing sources that are not the movie. Maybe this information is in the novelization? Either way. None of the Jedi allude to the idea that only the chosen one can defeat the Sith or his apprentice. They just say "grave danger!" and "Go ahead and train him".

I still maintain the prophecy is completely bogus because
A - What does "bringing balance to the force mean" and at what point was this achieved, and why? And more to the point, how exactly does Palpatine manipulate the force on a universal level.

B - Without Luke, Anakin would have probably never been redeemed. Maybe one day he would've taken out Palpatine so he could be top dog, but out of a lust for power not for good. He'd still be a 'sith lord'. And if the prophecy relies not on Anakin, but on Luke, then how is Anakin the chosen one? Because Luke's his kid? I don't think so.


The Darth Vader story is about a father being redeemed by his son, nothing more. It's a smaller part of the larger whole. Regardless of what happened in that throne room, the Emperor and Darth Vader would've been killed by Wedge and Lando Calrissian when they blow up the reactor. Nothing they do in that room would've affected the outcome of the other two battles.

Then Lando could've been the chosen one!

 

Basically, the imbalance in the force is just a shoe-horned in plot device. Lucas has a problem, Jedi can see the future. So Lucas creates an "imbalance in the force" so that Jedi can't see much of anything. This imbalance exists despite there being only 2 sith compared to about god knows how many Jedi.

You're confusing a few things here. The imbalance describes the disturbance of peace in the galaxy. There's a power struggle, and the Sith are jockeying for position. This is the imbalance referred to in Star Wars. The Sith ARE the imbalance.

The Jedi's inability to accurately predict the future is not the Sith's doing, its the dark side itself. The Jedi feel threatened, yet they are reluctant to be motivated by fear. They sense the fear in young Anakin, yet they cannot see his future. His future wasn't clouded, their perception of the dark side was. Indeed the Jedi are TOLD that the Senate is controlled by Darth Sidious, but since they refuse to give into their worst fears, they don't recognize the truth, and assume Dooku is deceitful. But who's creating mistrust? Yoda continues to trust Palpatine, yet accuses Dooku of lying in the same breath. The Sith are unlike the Jedi who see the negative emotion, greed or mistrust as a shroud of their own darkness, rather they see it as enlightenment - THE TRUTH? THE TRUTH. It all goes back to the point of view stuff.

The writing isn't "crappy" its just subtle, and its gone waaay over your head.

 

Dude nothing you just wrote made a lick of sense. Oh, and you say it's "gone waaay over [my] head", but 50 bucks says half of what you just said was from a novel, not the movie. How and why exactly is the Dark Side disrupting the Jedi's ability to see the future? What is influencing the dark side, one guy with long term goals is creating dark energies in the force that encompass the entirety of the SW galaxy??? Or if the coming war increases the dark side (which by the way is never so far as I know mentioned), then why does not a totalitarian state like the Empire cause the force to be imbalanced when it oppresses people every day. And aside from that, what does a war between clones and droids have to do with the force? When Alderan was destroyed, Obi Wan felt a shudder in the force. You think he feels the same thing when Clones or Droids bite it? Not likely.


Or let me pose simple straightforward questions:
1. What does it mean to have "balance in the force"
2. What does it mean to have "imbalance in the force" (examples and counter examples for #1 and #2)
3. What is causing the imbalance?
4. How and at what point does Anakin "bring balance" back?

 

I'll try my best:

1. Balance in the force means to not have sith lords hogging it. See, jedi let the force flow through them and everything around them. They harness the force. The sith try and hoard it. Think of the sith like a dam on a river. Their mere existence causes an imbalance due to their greed and thirst for power: they distort the energy field surrounding all living things. The jedi harmonize with the force. The sith do not.

2. Imbalance in the force means sith existing and roaming the galaxy. This triggers the midichlorians to conceive the Chosen One.

3. The sith.

4. When he destroys the Emperor and dies. No sith = balance restored.

The common mistake many people make is confusing the sith with the dark side of the Force. The dark side exists in all living things, but so does the light. All jedi have a dark side to them, but they've learned to temper and control it. They achieve balance with the Force. The sith do not. They thrive on the darkside and so distort the Force by growing in power from the dark side.

So balance with the Force means achieving a yin/yang harmonious balance between ones light and darkside but controlling and tempering the dark. The sith do just the opposite. There is no harmony.

So balance doesn't mean no dark side. Everyone has a dark side. Balance means no Sith.


And no, I didn't get that from a book or anything else EU. Just got it from watching the movies.

 

So in TESB when Yoda demonstrates no problems in using the force as he watches Luke from across the galaxy, the force is still imbalanced? See, that's where it doesn't make any sense. And please, don't tell me that the Empire and Darth Vader at this point had already won and thus were hording less power and not "damming up the river". Because that's just crap quite frankly. A person in power craves more power, not less. This is evidenced by the creation of the Death Star after the battle had already been won. Why do you need an ultimate weapon for a war which is already done and in a world where you have no competing factions. (ie the states had Russia post world war 2. The Empire has no such adversary).

This imbalance in the force is never touched upon, nor reflected in the actions of the OT. Yet in order for this prophecy to exist this imbalance must still be in place (A prohecy btw, which as I've stated Lando+crew would've fulfilled regardless of Anakin's actions).

It doesn't make sense.


What does make sense is that Lucas introduced it because he otherwise could not write into a script a way in which Jedi who can see the future could not see their own demise and the fall of the Republic.

Yoda: Blind we are, of creation of this clone army we could not see.
Mace Windu: I think it is time we inform the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished.
Yoda: Only a Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will.

See, problem: Jedi can see the future, but Jedi have to lose. How can you lose if you know what's going to happen? Especially if their losing relies on deception and subterfuge (ie, how can the Jedi be tricked, if they see the trick's reveal before it happens).

Solution: Make up something about force imbalance that blocks their ability to see the future.

Resulting Problem: Yoda doesn't demonstrate this problem in TESB.

Solution: Hope people gloss over it.

 

My thoughts exactly word for word.

 

That's cool. I like how you applaud the guy but don't address the issues I have with his argument. Very clever.

And ontop of what I've said. So, in the Jedi there exists a prophecy to bring balance back to the force right. And from what we can tell, the only thing wrong with the Jedi in PT is that they can't see the future. So if it's a prophecy, we'll take a leap here and suggest that it's OLD and from some dead guy. They didn't say "That thing that Master Bob said about bring balance back, I think it's this guy! Where's Master Bob?"


So for presumably hundreds of years, there's existed a imbalance in the force and the Jedi have been nothing but dorks with lightsabers and telekenetic abilities?? So why are they still in a position of power exactly?


Either way, why is that Yoda can be so connected to Luke throughout his whole life when he can't see other HUGE events within the PT timeline?

1. Again, is because Palpy and Vader have become complacent, and seek less power thus allowing the force to flow freely again?

No, both of them are seeking more power. Evidenced by both the Death Star's construction and to a limited degree the expanded sphere of Empire influence (Imperial troops on Tatooine).

2. Is it because Yoda formed a special bond with Luke and Leia early on because he saw them for 10 minutes as babies?

No, because if he did that in that circumstance, why could he not also read into palpy's mind or whoever else he came into contact with in PT.

3. Is it because both Daghoba and Tatooine are remote planets?

No. That would imply a range to force clouding. Yet Obi Wan and Yoda are both far from coruscant at different times. Hell the whole Jedi order is on Geonosa at one point.

4. Is it because Obi Wan can read Luke's mind and is transmitting this data via wireless device to Yoda's hut on Daghoba.

No. But that would be pretty funny.



Either way. Yoda has no problems using the force in TESB whatsoever, nor during the full length of Luke's life. He knows his thoughts and dreams despite being on a distant planet. Yes, jsut to quote the script again:

YODA: This one a long time
have I watched. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was
doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these
things. (turning to Luke) You are reckless!


Of course there's a simple solution.
The story of the PT doesn't match up with the OT. Which is what I've been saying all along. Make the Prophecy null and void. A prophecy, which I will remind people again, Lando and Wedge would've fulfilled shortly after Luke either dying or killing Darth Vader. The Death Star would've been blown up no matter was happening in that chamber. There is nothing in the OT to suggest anything to the contrary.

 

Well, not completely. Anakin is still able to see his wife's death. Although that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. He can also see his mother in pain, but that's not really the future.

Now you're just making stuff up! And who says that your "Master Bob" would still be alive by the PT?

Because they have lightsabers and telekinetic abilities. People like that wouldn't be able to keep power?

Not really, when Luke asks him if his friends will die, Yoda can't give him a straight answer. He can only humbly reply "always in motion, the future is" because he's learned that predicting the future isn't a precise science. It can be blocked and muddied and changed.

Or, the simple solution is that you (for whatever reason) don't like the PT and don't like to see it attached to the OT. That's okay. You can either like them or not. Whatever. But then, I don't see why numerous plot holes in the OT don't bother you. It's almost as though you've rationalized or excused them somehow. Which is what you constantly accuse us of doing here.

 

There really is no argument to be had here. He answered your questions, I did not. I chose not to answer them because they were so stupid. If you really wanted to know the answers to these questions, you would find them in the films instead of attacking the films for kicks. I wasn't really applauding the answers he gave to your questions because they were the right answers. Any Star Wars fan should know this stuff, especially if they decide to attack the films. I knew you didn't want answers. You wanted an argument, so you interpreted his simple straightforward answers as arguments. I was really just applauding his concise yet thorough explanation of the dark side in the prequels. The fact that you refuse to learn from these answers does not surprise me. Do not expect me to answer your endless questions because your questions won't end until I say "The prequels make no sense." The same goes for the rest of the endless questioneers. None of it is a true story, nor is it meant to be. It's a metaphor, and the meaning behind the story is much more important than the plausibility of it.

At the risk of going above your head again, I'll compare the Jedi's inability to perceive evil to your inability to follow the plot of the prequels. For a thousand years the galaxy was believed to be without the prequel films, when the prequels came along, the Jedi (that's you) sensed something evil, but did not know how to categorize it. Instead of paying attention to these films, they engage in argument with them, defending their established position without even attempting to understand the evil that they are faced with. Dooku told the Jedi the truth about the Sith, and they still refused to believe it. Shanerjedi answered your questions, and but what he said is impossible to you because your understanding of the OT is not compatible with it.

 

Yeah, I know I'm making stuff up. I made that pretty clear did I not?

I don't think he's learned anything. He's just stating a fact. On either this board or another board someone said that Yoda learned about something at the end of the PT. But there's absolutely no indication of that whatsoever. Yoda's simply stating the facts. The future isn't certain, no fate but what we make. Ring any bells? That's a pretty common theme with pre-cognition (see Terminator 2).

The sad part of the PT is that most of the characters don't have an arc. The Jedi are pretty boring for the most part because they're all emotionally distant. One of the few times I actually cared about what was going for example in Revenge of the Sith is when Jimmy smits sees the young Jedi bite it. Because the guy's a real human being, he shows some real emotion. Compare this to Obi Wan watching the holovids of Anakin kill the children. His dialogue delivery was friggin atrocious. Can get more emotion out of C3PO and he's a bloody robot.

What numerous plots are you referring to? The only rationalization quite frankly is on the part of the PT. The intricate fantasies some people have boiled up to justify the inconsistencies is pretty impressive. I simply see them for what they. Two separate entities. I don't try to rectify the problems the PT has alongside the OT because they're simply unrectifable. And no amount of self-delusion on my part is going to make the story of the PT any more palpatible when interwoven with the OT. They're different stories. The OT has an origin, but it is not the PT. Nor is the OT the conclusion to the PT. Because as soon as you try to put them on the same track they both go flying off the rails.

 

Token PT bashing. Never seen that before.

Funny that this thread began with the proposition: "TPM underrated".

Look at the direction it's been taken in.

If you see them as two separate entities and despise the PT so much, why have all 33 of your posts, bar one, been in the PT forum? In your first post to this board, in the RLM thread, you came in all guns blazing and haven't ceased since. I think what Stamp said to you is perfectly valid, myself.

Maybe that is Lucas' point? To build up a sense of galactic reckoning with these notions of prophecy and balance, only to have the final confrontation come down to a personal struggle between father and son? The epic is contrasted with the intimate in a very tight setting, against the backdrop of war; and compacted therein, you have motifs and themes like anger, pride, fear, slavery, dogma, authority and control, via a confrontation between three patriarchs or would-be patriarchs, shored up by ideas and ideologies advanced in motion pictures before and after the one you're watching. Seems like the very essence of Star Wars, to me.

 

I know. Hence the smiley. Geez, I guess the internet is "serious business," huh?

See, this is where you mistake your opinion for fact. Characters in the PT most certainly have arcs, although they may to your eyes still remain "boring." Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme all develop throughout the trilogy (though sometimes not in the right direction). The characters change drastically from TPM to ROTS.

What numerous plot holes? Well okay...
1. Why does Leia lead the Millennium Falcon to the Rebellion when she knows they are being tracked?
2. Why is Luke, who never mentions his adoptive parents again, so distraught when finding out Vader is his father? Kid showed less emotion when he found the burning remains of his family.
3. Why can Vader sense Luke's Force potential, but not Leia's?
4. Why does Yoda say "there is another" when Luke leaves to go to Bespin, as though that helps anything? Leia is "the other" and she's already in Vader's clutches, so it's not like she's going to be of great help.
5. Why does the Emperor interrupt Luke when he's about to kill Vader? Let him get on with it!
6. Why does Leia not react to the destruction of her home planet?
7. Why has Han not paid off Jabba by ESB? (The Rebellion gave him money did they not?)

I could go on, but I won't. I've found a lot of great explanations for most of these (many involving the PT), but they are moments that made me scratch my head initially. Now, I'm sure you could probably give me some good rationalizations, but that's exactly what you accuse us of constantly doing. You're just going to "boil up some intricate fantasies to justify the inconsistencies"!

No matter how much you may detest it, the PT is the backstory to the OT. And that's a fact.

 

We can't use the imbalance of the Force as an excuse to deprive Jedi of all their powers, or else the films as we know them would not exist. The fundamental difference is that Yoda knows where Luke is and what's going on with him, so he already knows where to look. On the other hand, the Jedi are seen to have limited perception of things they don't already know about.

That is one possibility; however, according to Lucas' own words, it is also possible that Anakin was created by an act of the Sith.

 

1) Ah but that is never said or implied in the movies, that is your assumption.
So you are inventing something in order for the films to make sense. Since you said that things are ?clear? you should not have to do this.
2) You misunderstand my point, IF the prophecy is viewed by the Jedi as the death of ALL Sith THEN since all Jedi believe ALL Sith long since dead they would not pay any attention to this prophecy. Say that someone today made a prophecy about the Japanese attack or Pearl Harbour, would anyone pay it much mind? No since it would be viewed by everyone as something that had already happened. So again why would the Jedi even bother with a prophecy that all knew to be wrong?

When was this prophecy made? Well we have no idea but say it was more than 1000 years ago. At that time there were Sith in existence and the Jedi would be fighting them.
Then something, we do not know what, caused everyone to think that all Sith were dead.
At that time the Jedi would think that the prophecy had been fulfilled and pay it no more mind. If the prophecy was made less than 1000 years ago then since all Jedi believed the Sith to be all dead they would disregard it as they all knew it to be wrong.

So from what the films tells us the Jedi would not have been interested in this prophecy and yet for some reason the entire council immediately knows what Qui-Gon is talking about. This is one reason why I find the whole prophecy thing to useless baggage, it is not developed properly. It is just thrown in there with little development and it comes of as empty talk.

Lastly, why would the Jedi think that only the chose one could kill the Sith?
The Jedi have been fighting the sith before haven?t they? And during some of those fights some Jedi must have been able to kill a sith. So it is not like the Sith are un-killable in some fashion. After all, something did happen to make all Jedi think all Sith were dead, was this too the act of another ?chosen one??

Regards
Nordom

 

Um, you need to learn that the definition of a plothole is. Luke not crying enough at a certain point in a movie, is not a plot hole. I'll quote you a definition:

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

 

Actually in what you just described the Sith are working to CREATE an imbalance, not that they ARE the imbalance. A sharp nail can CAUSE a flat tire, a sharp nail IS not a flat tire.
Either the Sith by virtue of simply existing cause the Force to be imbalanced. As long as there is a single Sith alive, no matter what he or she is doing, he or she could even be frozen in carbonite, the Force is imbalanced.
Or, the sith, by creating fear, mistrust and sowing chaos and starting wars are creating an imbalance. Then there are other ways to balance the Force, defeating the sith and stopping their chaos and anarchy would help. The sith had been around for quite some time without large wars suddenly appearing.

Also if there was a war but without any Sith presence would that cause the Force to be unbalanced? If two Jedi factions were fighting against each other would that cause the Force to be unbalanced? You say that it is the Dark side itself that clouds the Jedi, could it do that if there are no sith around? Destroying the Sith does not destroy the actual dark side itself does it?

Lastly I would say that the jedi also had problems with basic thinking and generally comes across as a bunch of clueless dimwits who could not find their own backside with two hands and an atlas. Had they been even remotely competent then Palpatine would have lost.

Regards
Nordom

 

I'll try my best:

1. Balance in the force means to not have sith lords hogging it. See, jedi let the force flow through them and everything around them. They harness the force. The sith try and hoard it. Think of the sith like a dam on a river. Their mere existence causes an imbalance due to their greed and thirst for power: they distort the energy field surrounding all living things. The jedi harmonize with the force. The sith do not.

2. Imbalance in the force means sith existing and roaming the galaxy. This triggers the midichlorians to conceive the Chosen One.

3. The sith.

4. When he destroys the Emperor and dies. No sith = balance restored.

The common mistake many people make is confusing the sith with the dark side of the Force. The dark side exists in all living things, but so does the light. All jedi have a dark side to them, but they've learned to temper and control it. They achieve balance with the Force. The sith do not. They thrive on the darkside and so distort the Force by growing in power from the dark side.

So balance with the Force means achieving a yin/yang harmonious balance between ones light and darkside but controlling and tempering the dark. The sith do just the opposite. There is no harmony.

So balance doesn't mean no dark side. Everyone has a dark side. Balance means no Sith.


And no, I didn't get that from a book or anything else EU. Just got it from watching the movies.

[/quote]

1) In other words, the Force has been unbalanced for however long the Sith have existed, well over 1000 years.

2) And again since there has been sith around for over 1000 years then the Force is not acting very fast is it?

3) The same imbalance would reappear as soon as another Jedi fell to the dark side.

4) Until another jedi falls to the dark side and we have to start all over again.

Lastly, going by the films alone there have always never been more than two siths ever.
The films give no indication that the sith?s number had ever been larger so throughout the millennia there have only ever been two sith fighting the whole jedi order.
Seems awfully one-sided. Also, going by the films, the Sith did at one time rule the galaxy. So at some point in time, only two sith managed to get control of the galaxy.
Was the Force imbalanced then? I would think so. Was it ever balanced again, was there a chosen one there? I have no idea but from what you say no.

Regards
Nordom

 

Perhaps you should reread your own definition. I stated that I found it illogical and inconsistent that Luke, who never she a tear on-screen when his adoptive parents died and never mentioned them again, would be so distraught by Vader's revelation. It simply doesn't seem consistent to me. And you're also ignoring what are definitely other plot holes: such as the tracking, Han not having paid Jabba, "the Other," and so on. For someone who spends so much time complaining that no one ever addresses your points, you sure haven't presented a great counter-argument.

 

1) You have me there. It's never stated in the movies, but I like that Lucas kept the Prophecy mysterious and let us make our own assumptions about it. Is it bad writing? I suppose it's up to your point of view. I hated when J.K. Rowling told us that either Harry or Voldemort would have to kill each other in the end because that basically gave away the ending. As soon as I read that, I knew that Harry would kill Voldemort and that Harry himself wouldn't die. It ruined a lot of the tension for me in the rest of the books, but to each his own.

What I was trying to get at with the Prophecy being clear, though, was that ROTS did reveal what the Jedi thought it meant quite decisively: that Anakin would destroy the Sith to bring balance to the Force.

2) What I gleaned from the movies was that the Jedi were originally dismissive of Anakin and the prophecy for exactly that reason. Remember Ki-Adi-Mundi says "Impossible, the Sith have been extinct for a millenia." But then, with Qui-Gon dead and Obi-Wan having killed one of the Sith, they are forced to accept that it's highly likely that there is another one out there and so they accept Anakin and train him as a precaution should the need for a Chosen One arise.

Well, to be fair, prophecies might be a rare thing for the Jedi. If this were a very unique event, I suppose it could be handed down as a sort of Jedi urban legend. Again, we don't really have much evidence one way or the other, but considering the Jedi on the Council are the most eminent in the Order, I don't know if it's that odd that they would be well-versed in Jedi lore. But you're right, they could have easily dismissed it as tripe.

As for the whole idea of the "chosen one," again, I always had the feeling that the Jedi used it more as a precaution. Anakin had incredible potential in the Force, so it seems logical to me that he could be used as a sort-of "reserve" should this Sith threat prove too powerful for an ordinary Jedi. Yet, even then, I don't

 

That's odd because Episode 6 involves the following dialogue:

BEN: He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader.

LUKE: I've accepted the truth that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father.

VADER: That name no longer has any meaning for me.

LUKE: It is the name of your true self. You've only forgotten.

In a scene in which the Jedi express doubt regarding Anakin's status as Chosen One. However, given what happens in ROTJ, we know that this doubt was not ultimately proven to be correct. So the implication is that the Jedi did not actually get the prophecy wrong, though they doubted themselves when things were looking bleak.

 

This discussion led me to envision what the scene could have looked like when Qui-Gon first argues that Anakin is the Chosen One.

Mace: "You mean it's this...boy?"

Jinn: "Yes".

Ki-Adi-Mundi: "But, Master Jinn, the Sith has been extinct for a thousand years. You are a little...late with this discovery, are you not?"

Jinn:..."um, well, we were attacked by someone who was a Sith"

Mace: "What makes you say this?"

Jinn: "He had a red lightsaber and he was trained in the Jedi arts."

Mace: "And this is the only proof you have?"

Jinn:...

 

I know. It's really weird. I remember we watched 1,2,4,5,6 all at once. My mother had rented them at the same time and I complained to her that she hadn't gotten Episode 3. And I didn't believe her when she said it wasn't there (this was in 2004). I'll be honest, though, ROTJ was the one I paid the least attention to because my mother and I were complaining about the Ewoks. And I remember being annoyed that the effects seemed worse than those in ESB. I do remember asking her initially why the puppet effects in ESB were so bad and she told me not to be so harsh since it was made in 1980. I didn't believe that either until I checked the box! Believe me, ANH and ESB have aged well. ROTJ, to a lesser extent, for some reason.

There's also the fact that I felt really, really shocked after watching ROTS (which was several months later -- so there's the passage of time to consider). I also wasn't a huge fan of the movies at that point, either. I do remember, though, after ROTS, I actually popped in the bonus disc after everyone else went to bed because that movie left me unsettled and I watched the "Chosen One" documentary. It was the only one I actually bothered to look at the bonus disc for too.

 

Having skimmed through the rest of this thread up until now, this may be beating a dead bantha, but here goes...

"Balance" doesn't mean "equal numbers" or any such mathematical or equivalence notion. It means "harmony"... and bringing balance (harmony) to the Force means eliminating those who throw the Force out of balance by using it in aggressive, destructive, and self-serving ways (the dark side usage of the Sith). Anakin fulfilled the prophecy of the Chosen One by killing Palpatine and himself dying in the process.

 

I had to go my buddy's place today, had no time for arguing on teh internets. Besides I'm not sure there's much point since you've already stated that you'll equate whatever I say to exactly what you're saying. But I'll take a stab at a few of them.

A better question is, why should a story point so integral to the character of Han Solo be resolved without issue OFF SCREEN? That's what we call, BAD STORYTELLING. People would be like "what, what about that debt? Oh, it got paid off? That's . . cool I guess". Expository dialogue is boring. It's also why any attempt to tell me that Yoda or whoever had a revelation OFF SCREEN is a complete waste of time. The audience doesn't care what happens offscreen. They care about onscreen.

Interestingly enough, this is a problem in the PT as RLM touched upon.

Case in point. Anakin and Obi wan talking about falling into some nest of gundarts in AOTC. Or, in ROTS Anakin says some crap about saving Obi wan for the 10th time. What happened to the other 9 times??? We didn't see any of those.

You ever been out for drinks or food with friends. And two friends start excitedly talking about an event that you were not a witness to? Do you have fun during those times, you know, the times when two people talk about the fun they had when you weren't there? No. Of course you don't. So why would you have fun listening to Obi Wan and Anakin talking about their mysterious offscreen adventures???

Compare this to the OT.
Han saves Luke in ANH "You owe me one kid"
Han save Luke on Hoth "That's two you owe me"
Luke says Han from Jabba "Now I owe you one."

We see this happen. If Han saved Luke on Hoth and he's like "That's Five you owe now kid" people would be like, "what? Five? What the hell they talking about".

The simple answer: To advance the story while simultaneously heightening the tension. Everything hinges on that one battle. Leia already described it to Obi wan as their "most desperate hour". If you're desperate you run home. Maybe she was confident in the Rebel Alliance? Maybe they wanted to draw the death star there, rather than having it go blast another planet to hell?

Luke had training and was being watched by Obi Wan.
Leia did not.

To get the audience wondering. Also Leia's fate is not certain. With Luke's imminent arrival Lando does of course spring Chewie and Leia free and the three of them escape. Yoda does say this after Luke has already departed, the events of Luke returning were already in motion. Uncertain sure, but in motion.

Because he's enjoying it? I don't know. Why is this even an issue? The guy can't help but laugh. He's getting his rocks off. Who knows.

 

I have no interest in your character, nor do I wish to insult you. I just get a little irritated with the impulse to fault the movies without knowing the plot. Your questions indicate a fundamental (and I use that word sparingly) ignorance of the films. I'm tired of the arguments, you're not. It doesn't matter if the prequels make no sense. There are plenty of other things to dislike about them, and believe me, I'm well aware of it. I'm defending the movies because they have meaning and they serve a purpose. To me, their good values outweigh my desire for them to have been different.